And when one skill works so much better than all the others for threat that it becomes the only one worth using early in a fight unless the situation will not allow it (cc) there is a problem.
EoB is our best threat skill and it should be balanced so that it should be spammed to keep our threat. I don't know why most wardens don't understand the spammable nature of the gambit system. You simply can not make anything good enough so that you can fire it a few times and and forget about it and if you make several different gambits doing the same thing then that's just plain stupid. Guess what people will do when you make gambits more powerful? They will spam it even more, and abuse it (see example old aggression). EoB is our main threat skill and every other threat gambit is to supplement our threat while we self buff/heal.
Originally Posted by Ackibo
My big problem is in comparison to the threat from eob everything els is broken. You should not have to battle prep eob for trash pulls
Guards wait before their Challenge is off cd every pull because it's their best initiating skill. Why should we not use our best skills before every pull? Have you ever seen a guard run into 5 mobs and hit Vexing Blow or have you ever seen any Guard for a different initiate skill? You should not be doing different things just for the sake of it, change is only warranted when it addresses a problem.
Originally Posted by Ackibo
I dont like using almost all my builders to make one gambit over and over and over. I like and want to be able to use several skills in any given 30 seconds of a fight.
No one asked you to hit EoB 20 times in a row. Hitting 2 Eobs every 16 seconds is more than enough. You can use other leeches during those 16 seconds. However, your problem is not a game mechanic or design flaw,once again you're asking for different gambits just for the sake of it. If we make SoV and SoD line clones of EoB would that make you happy? You'll be hitting different gambits but essentially you're achieving the same objective by doing the same thing: spam. Spam is not a bad thing for wardens. In fact the very design of the class is built around spam proactively.
2) ST threat. PB was great for this. Didn't break CC in raids, not when I had to get 3-4 targets, but when I was on a single target, hence it being a ST skill. It was quick to build and execute and firing off a couple of these would lock down any target no matter what the dps, raid or 3 man. There are times, especially in a raid with two tanks, when you only want to pull a single target. We don't currently have a good skill for this. On tank swaps, I would hit a couple of these and conviction/DoW/Aggression and that was all it took. I think a ST skill should be stronger than EoB, because it is only a ST and not a repeat of EoB+TV, room-wide threat lockdown.
Not sure if everyone knows this but SoV (3131) got a very large buff with 6.1 and is very close to EoB (12,000 threat compared to 15,000 for EoB).
Curiously, the evolution of the internet seems inversely proportional to the evolution of man.
Not sure if everyone knows this but SoV (3131) got a very large buff with 6.1 and is very close to EoB (12,000 threat compared to 15,000 for EoB).
I think SoV should grant some other benefit than "almost as good as EoB". If I had my druthers, I'd give it a good threat over time component or possibly a self-buff like "+10% perceived threat" for 10s/30s.
EoB is our best threat skill and it should be balanced so that it should be spammed to keep our threat. I don't know why most wardens don't understand the spammable nature of the gambit system. You simply can not make anything good enough so that you can fire it a few times and and forget about it and if you make several different gambits doing the same thing then that's just plain stupid.
I guess we just disagree, then. There is a lot of room between "needing to be spammed" and "fire it a few times and forget about it." I liked the way PB was. It didn't need to be spammed, but you also couldn't hit it a few times and forget.
I also liked the best single-target threat and the best multi-target threat being different.
As long as we are on the subject, I liked that the gambits did the same thing regardless of stance, and I liked that we did not have tiered buffs to worry about. I also liked having a way to recover aggro after death.
A lot of other skills like sov should be greater and more powerful versions of their shorter earlyer learned skills. And the 3131 line is single target threat only. There is no logic to a skill that both hits more targets and heals you wile dealing damage over time to a group of mobs adds more threat than a skill that only does up front damage with no buffs heals or leaches attached. If a skill that is aoe and dot and hot does that much threat than other skills that have less function attached to them should do as much or more threat depending on gambit size function attached and time to animate. Take dance of war for example. Wile it does not do hot or damage on 10 mobs it does leach threat from fellows within 25m (personally i think it should have a 46m range but thats another topic). Dance of war takes longer to use than eob because of the dance animation. It is 1 builder shorter but takes at least a second longer. So it should leach as much or more threat which it does not. Ill allow the dot and hot to cancel out the evasion buff to simplify the arguement. Aggression does nothing more than leach threat. It does not damage it does not heal or buff. It should be better than sov because sov does damage and threat. Conviction takes just as many builders as eob heals you for less but heals the fellowship and gives defence buff and does no damage. Give or take its about the same investment as eob...but not even close to the threat. Conviction with the group heal and defense boost duration it is a better skill mechanic for a rotation on all but large pulls in a rotation. With all its function i dont expect it to have as much threat as Aggression but it should have at least as much as EoB.
All our skills should have the same over all reward vrs cost of building and exicuting. What a skill does not have in damage heals and buffs it should make up for with threat. That way we could balance our buffs and heals vrs keeping proper threat on the mobs. The problem is not EoB is too strong. The problem is all our other skills are too weak threat wise. When comparing the threat a well geared champ hunter rk can get doing efficient dps to what our skills can generate EoB aside it is quite clear our threat table needs fixing. I hope your being sarcastic with your post and im just too tired to catch it. If we cant keep a resonable amount of b/p/e/tac buffs up along with a heal or two and maintane proper threat. Were just a guard with wimpy armor.
I think SoV should grant some other benefit than "almost as good as EoB". If I had my druthers, I'd give it a good threat over time component or possibly a self-buff like "+10% perceived threat" for 10s/30s.
--Harper
Yah and Deflection should give you a buff of -10% perceived threat for 10s/30s.
Tank swapping solved.
Curiously, the evolution of the internet seems inversely proportional to the evolution of man.
Yah and Deflection should give you a buff of -10% perceived threat for 10s/30s.
Tank swapping solved.
Still not as precise as engage, but the gambit system will ensure that we never get anything that precise. This is still pretty functional tho. I also like the idea of tying it to a javelin skill. Aggro copy on javelin skill is an acceptable cool down yes?
A lot of other skills like sov should be greater and more powerful versions of their shorter earlyer learned skills. And the 3131 line is single target threat only. There is no logic to a skill that both hits more targets and heals you wile dealing damage over time to a group of mobs adds more threat than a skill that only does up front damage with no buffs heals or leaches attached. If a skill that is aoe and dot and hot does that much threat than other skills that have less function attached to them should do as much or more threat depending on gambit size function attached and time to animate. Take dance of war for example. Wile it does not do hot or damage on 10 mobs it does leach threat from fellows within 25m (personally i think it should have a 46m range but thats another topic). Dance of war takes longer to use than eob because of the dance animation. It is 1 builder shorter but takes at least a second longer. So it should leach as much or more threat which it does not. Ill allow the dot and hot to cancel out the evasion buff to simplify the arguement. Aggression does nothing more than leach threat. It does not damage it does not heal or buff. It should be better than sov because sov does damage and threat. Conviction takes just as many builders as eob heals you for less but heals the fellowship and gives defence buff and does no damage. Give or take its about the same investment as eob...but not even close to the threat. Conviction with the group heal and defense boost duration it is a better skill mechanic for a rotation on all but large pulls in a rotation. With all its function i dont expect it to have as much threat as Aggression but it should have at least as much as EoB.
All our skills should have the same over all reward vrs cost of building and exicuting. What a skill does not have in damage heals and buffs it should make up for with threat. That way we could balance our buffs and heals vrs keeping proper threat on the mobs. The problem is not EoB is too strong. The problem is all our other skills are too weak threat wise. When comparing the threat a well geared champ hunter rk can get doing efficient dps to what our skills can generate EoB aside it is quite clear our threat table needs fixing. I hope your being sarcastic with your post and im just too tired to catch it. If we cant keep a resonable amount of b/p/e/tac buffs up along with a heal or two and maintane proper threat. Were just a guard with wimpy armor.
Old aggression was as powerful as EoB if not more and you saw the result. I can not emphasize enough on how easy it is to make a skill terribly OP in the gambit system because of the spam nature.
EoB is an excellent threat skill that is balanced by the fact that it's not CC friendly and the radius is very very small. DoW and Conviction are both CC friendly very large radius skills hence they are not as powerful as EoB. I'll give you an example, in RoF in the last room before the final boss when there are a billion spiders dropping from everywhere do you run around hitting separate EoBs or you just stand in a corner and hit DoW, Conviction and Aggression and when they come in closer that's when you hit EoB? In this case EoB is completely useless without the assistance of Dow/Conv/Agr.
On the other hand when you are pulling stuff in foundry do you use aggression more or DoW/Conv/Agr? Obv EoB because the mobs are much closer, large AoE threat/Conv isn't a requirement so you don't use DoW/Conv that much.
Not to mention DoW/Conv are a breeze to hit on the move but good luck with catching more than 2-3 mobs in an EoB while moving.
You see both the skills have their uses, you just choose not to identify them.
What you were doing is taking all the good things in EoB and comparing them to all the not so good things in other threat skills. I'm sorry but that's not how balancing works. EoB also offers almost no defensive benefits against ST(raid bosses) but only pure agro while conviction offers group wide heals which are not trivial as you implied. DoW provides crit defence and mits and ~2.5 evade. Now tell me please which skill is superior here? Would you take the 1k heal from a 16 sec EoB or the +5-10% evade chance and the 3-4% crit defense against the mob that hits 2-4k every hit. Once again you were comparing EoB in situations where it is clearly superior but you failed to see situations where DoW and Conv clearly prevailed.
I am in no way being sarcastic. I can keep my bpe at 25/23/~21 60-70% (raid buffed) of the time, and have atleast 24/20/18 about 90% of the time and nothing is pulled off of me. I've already agreed that agro swap and post death agro is an issue and it needs to be fixed, apart from that I love my warden.
Now for the first time wardens are truly the advanced class as marketed. You have to work hard to get what you want and if you work hard(and smart) enough you can do it better than anyone else. We have been in the dump on threat department and on the top with aggression, we've been 1 shotted with 18k morale in raids and we've had 40 hots healing us for 5k every 4 seconds. Now we are !!!ALMOST!!! where we ought to be, in the middle, and whether you go upwards or downwards is entirely dependent on the dedication and skill of the player which is the base requirement of an advanced class.
Just my 2 cents. I absolutely agree with Shintagh in everything he has stated in the last few post. I couldn't have stated anything better than he has. Well done Shin
I agree with Shintagh's last post 100%. Also, I'd like to add that we also need an improvement on the single target threat department. SoV and BP is all nice and good for single target but they are melee skills, and sometimes they just take too long to build. What I'd like to see is a revised trait to change javelin skills to have increased threat instead of increased damage/DoT when in Determination stance. We should do less damage with jav skills, and preferrably no DoTs, but should be able to pick up single mob from a distance.
I think SoV should grant some other benefit than "almost as good as EoB". If I had my druthers, I'd give it a good threat over time component or possibly a self-buff like "+10% perceived threat" for 10s/30s.
--Harper
Exactly, why would you choose to use something is that is marginally inferior and has no other benefits.
To the others, there are definitely times where using single target aggro skills is needed. One i can think of is tanking a troll or warg in ToO T2, you wouldn't want to wake up the one thats mezzed while DPSing one down. Also, if our other threat skills aren't going to be balanced out such that we have an single target equivalent of EoB then what is the point of having those gambits? Having one go to threat gambit for all situations just leads to boring gameplay.
My idea of a +10% perceived threat buff on SoV is really growing on me. It makes SoV a way to regain aggro quickly. So when you lose aggro due to a bad crit, you chase down the mob and hit him with SoV. Suddenly you are perceived as much more threatening, even if you haven't closed the threat gap, so you will turn the mob immediately. But keeping SoV up 100% of the time is going to be very time consuming, so you'll have to plan ahead for when the +perceived threat buff goes away. That seems like a very Wardeny way to deal with loss of aggro.
My idea of a +10% perceived threat buff on SoV is really growing on me. It makes SoV a way to regain aggro quickly. So when you lose aggro due to a bad crit, you chase down the mob and hit him with SoV. Suddenly you are perceived as much more threatening, even if you haven't closed the threat gap, so you will turn the mob immediately. But keeping SoV up 100% of the time is going to be very time consuming, so you'll have to plan ahead for when the +perceived threat buff goes away. That seems like a very Wardeny way to deal with loss of aggro.
--Harper
I don't want anything to do with perceived threat. When tanking I want real threat.
Buffing one gambit makes it the new spammed gambit. Just as PB was forever (rest of line ignored), Aggression was (U4-U5), and EOB was (U6 til now). The class needs more powerful skills on cooldowns. Anything powerful enough to use for snap aggro is good enough to only use and ignore the other threat gambits. I'm not trying to just #### on your idea, its an issue with the gambit system and the potency of our skills.
It was suggested ages ago that one of our gambits, I believe Aggression, would be buffed as a threat copy in the presence of the recently revived buff. Like NS used to be. I thought Orion was going to jump all over that. That would take care of the issue aggro after death and fall within the gambit mechanic.
As far as single target, I like the old stacking ToTs, specifically PB, skills til you got it back. Helped low level wardens tank, was quick way to build aggro for end game tanking. While that goes against the spamming / ignoring problem if a new ToT stacking mechanic (ie bleeds) was introduced it could work and make wardens use more of the line.
Personally give me some threat utilities on some CDs and it is easier to balance with the rest of the game. Lets remember that LOTRO is a game and there are some tried and true methods to MMOs with regards to tanking that we could draw from. Like a guard ability to throw on a DPS/Healing class to leach threat/reduce damage. It isn't just a skill for guardians (protection) many other games/classes have that.
I keep hearing that due to the spammable nature of gambits.... Why not tie an aggro copy or something similar to a gambit but put a cd on it similar to SI from shield tactics? That way the skill can still be spammed but managing it so you have the aggro copy (or whatever) avail when needed will be the challenge.
I keep hearing that due to the spammable nature of gambits.... Why not tie an aggro copy or something similar to a gambit but put a cd on it similar to SI from shield tactics? That way the skill can still be spammed but managing it so you have the aggro copy (or whatever) avail when needed will be the challenge.
Once you start going down that road you won't know where to stop and before you know it the gambit system will be redundant and we'll look exactly like guards. There have already been enough exceptions like DC, ST and NS, I personally don't want any more clickies or clickies made to look like gambits by putting restrictions on it. Agro swap and post death agro can be solved while keeping the gambit system's integrity intact, I'm sure it's being looked at but probably not at the top of the list of things to do.
PS: I hate to have skills copied from guards and bent into the gambit system. I'd rather they bring something creative that keeps the spirit of the gambit system alive instead of copy/special pasting guard skills. This is just my opinion though.
PS: I hate to have skills copied from guards and bent into the gambit system. I'd rather they bring something creative that keeps the spirit of the gambit system alive instead of copy/special pasting guard skills. This is just my opinion though.
I totally agree. I think we should have few or no clickies. If we could, I'd like to get rid of the clickies we have. More creativity, and keep the warden a gambit-based class.
Make a gambit that gives you 95% of the highest current aggro. This gambit could be used for aggro copy, and also for tank swapping without being spammable and OPed. All within the gambit system.
Last edited by Jeger_Wulf; Apr 25 2012 at 06:18 PM.
I totally agree. I think we should have few or no clickies. If we could, I'd like to get rid of the clickies we have. More creativity, and keep the warden a gambit-based class.
Make a gambit that gives you 95% of the highest current aggro. This gambit could be used for aggro copy, and also for tank swapping without being spammable and OPed. All within the gambit system.
I've often thought a gambit that gives threat based on threat differential would be just the ticket for catch-up without being spammable. Something like Zeno's arrow, that gives you 1/2 the threat differential between you and the top threat player.
Fi-Sp-Sh-Fi Zeno's Gambit
Gain 1/2 the threat difference between you and the current mob's target.
"They say Zeno's Arrow will never reach its mark, but my how quickly it flies!"
I totally agree. I think we should have few or no clickies. If we could, I'd like to get rid of the clickies we have. More creativity, and keep the warden a gambit-based class.
Make a gambit that gives you 95% of the highest current aggro. This gambit could be used for aggro copy, and also for tank swapping without being spammable and OPed. All within the gambit system.
I just think the limits of the gambit system are causing our skills to either be borderline OP - aggression u4-u5 or underwhelming PB U6. Even your gambit suggestion:
1) what if i'm in the lead is it a threat drop?
2) if I'm not in the lead I basically can hit your gambit and one leech to be on the top at any time. IE almost spamable engage.
I am not sure if a balance can easily be attained without implementing cooldowns like ST or clickies like DC/NS/Jav skills. I understand wanting to keep it warden-like but I'll take balance over some #### about nature of the class. Just my opinion. I'll also take force leap and force push while we're at it. Please use animation from Troy for leap.
so reading some of this, is the wardens ability to hold aggro really that big of a difference? I just recently had to make a new account and got a year of VIP and loved the warden on my previous account (which got hacked) so am on a fresh start. Is he going to be an more of an nuisance rather than helpful further down the line? Is he still a strong choice for a fellowship or would they probably better off with a guard now? I only ask cause the warden before was pretty good at keeping himself alive without having to rely on others too much for his own survivability.. from what I've read it seems like he's no longer good at keeping aggro along with his HoT's n all?
Last edited by Silvermune; Apr 25 2012 at 09:43 PM.
Question I'm sure somebody can answer. If we're not supposed to spam gambits, why was battle memory invented? That seems to be pretty much all it's used for.
Yes, which would make it a nice aggro exchange tool.
Originally Posted by Mysterion
2) if I'm not in the lead I basically can hit your gambit and one leech to be on the top at any time. IE almost spamable engage.
No, because 5% becomes bigger the longer the fight lasts. If you die ten minutes into a boss fight, it might take a little work to make up the 5% (which would be 30 seconds of raidwide DPS.) If 5% is the wrong number, go with another. I think it is pretty close to balanced, though.
No, because 5% becomes bigger the longer the fight lasts. If you die ten minutes into a boss fight, it might take a little work to make up the 5% (which would be 30 seconds of raidwide DPS.) If 5% is the wrong number, go with another. I think it is pretty close to balanced, though.
In which case it could be put into battle memory and fired off again back to back. It basically IS spammable engage. Sure you would have to build past that last little bit of threat is doesnt overcome since its not over a 100% threat leach but a skill like this is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay over the top OP compared to old aggression and it still got nerfed. The idea is hated by wardens, but it is impossible to put some tools in the gambit system. They are either over or underpowered leaving cooldown skills as the only way to implement tools like threat catchup effectively. Myst basically has the right idea.
For catchup after dead i already had a simple solution on the german forums.
Most of you may know the old NS, which was stealing aggro from the group once you used it to get back into the fight.
So a simple solution would be to implement a threat steal after revive for the warden into a trait.
The reason to put it into a trait is simple, if on dd role you dont really want to have the aggro, but once your dead the system does not know which role you were playing so tell it by traiting.
Aggro switching is another case that could be done by proper adjustment of threatgen.
Sadly fine tuning on threat is not one of the devs strenghts these days.
Well, the buff we got after a defeat back in the day for NS should still be somewhere in the database and could easily be revived. What would be the problem, to have aggression as OP as it was for the time (30 sec?) the defeat-buff is running, and tune it down to normal once the buff runs out?
That would be a simple solution with the mechanics we all already know and the tech that is already implemented into the game.
so reading some of this, is the wardens ability to hold aggro really that big of a difference? I just recently had to make a new account and got a year of VIP and loved the warden on my previous account (which got hacked) so am on a fresh start. Is he going to be an more of an nuisance rather than helpful further down the line? Is he still a strong choice for a fellowship or would they probably better off with a guard now? I only ask cause the warden before was pretty good at keeping himself alive without having to rely on others too much for his own survivability.. from what I've read it seems like he's no longer good at keeping aggro along with his HoT's n all?
Sadly, throw away everything you knew from your old warden, especially if he was not level 75, as your leveling process has been radically altered. I REALLY wish you had asked this in another thread than 18 pages on threat, but at least you get the warden skill of derailing threads.
Now, if you feel you want to:
1. Have no self healing until 20
2. Have to work to do all the things wardens used to do, which is now only available in Determination stance and not in Recklessness or whatever the buggy additional non-tank wanna be a ranger group stance Assailment is.
3. Have pretty much server wide bias that only guards are tanks
Then re-roll a warden. Otherwise, just roll an easy mode, group loved and accepted guard.
I once had a cool sig,
That Turbine shortened and did not dig.
So now, all I can do is dance a silent jig.
Yes, which would make it a nice aggro exchange tool.
No, because 5% becomes bigger the longer the fight lasts. If you die ten minutes into a boss fight, it might take a little work to make up the 5% (which would be 30 seconds of raidwide DPS.) If 5% is the wrong number, go with another. I think it is pretty close to balanced, though.
5% would not work as a double spammed gambit, even if you were 1,000,000 threat behind, would get you up to 997,500 and only 2500 off the lead. So spammable engage indeed. 50% might work, as quad spam would get you to about 60k of the lead. Followed by some basic threat gambits that difference could be closed within about 15 seconds.
Really I am with those who say we need some clickies. There are simply some situations in this game that do not lend themselves well to the gambit system. After death agro, emergency skills are a couple examples where you need fast executable, instant skills on cooldown.
The gambit system is great and fun but you also have to realize the limitations inherant in it and not try to jam a round peg in a square hole. The viability of the Warden (esp. compared to other tanks) requires some flexibility.
Curiously, the evolution of the internet seems inversely proportional to the evolution of man.
In which case it could be put into battle memory and fired off again back to back. It basically IS spammable engage.
Originally Posted by danno8
even if you were 1,000,000 threat behind, would get you up to 997,500 and only 2500 off the lead. So spammable engage indeed.
You guys are misunderstanding. Hitting it twice does nothing. If the highest threat is 1,000,000, then hitting it once would give you 950,000. Hitting it a second time would give you 950,000. Hitting it ten more times would still leave you at 950,000. You would have to make up the extra 50,000 amother way.
You guys are misunderstanding. Hitting it twice does nothing. If the highest threat is 1,000,000, then hitting it once would give you 950,000. Hitting it a second time would give you 950,000. Hitting it ten more times would still leave you at 950,000. You would have to make up the extra 50,000 amother way.
Ok i see what your saying now. it takes 95% flat of the highest persons threat and copies it. Not 95% of how far behind the farthest person. Still a cooldown clicky button is alot more simple, instant, and more effective. The gambit system needs to be the core of the wardens normal gameplay, but catchup mechanics and panic skills need to be clicky's. Someone earlier mentioned cooldowns on gambits such as shield tactics. Plz no. Might as well have a clicky cooldown. At least then your not having to hit up to 5 buttons to blow a single cooldown.
*puts two coppers on the table*
Still a cooldown clicky button is alot more simple, instant, and more effective. *puts two coppers on the table*
The warden class has mutated from what it was. It was a class based on gambits. In some cases a class based on clickies would be "more simple, instant, and more effective," but the class based on gambits was superior in other cases. Further, it was (IMO) more fun and it is the class that I loved.
You guys are used to clickies now. I guess we will get more. I don't have to like it, though.
The warden class has mutated from what it was. It was a class based on gambits. In some cases a class based on clickies would be "more simple, instant, and more effective," but the class based on gambits was superior in other cases. Further, it was (IMO) more fun and it is the class that I loved.
You guys are used to clickies now. I guess we will get more. I don't have to like it, though.
Old aggression was a perfect gambit for tank swapping convince Orion to bring it back to its former glory and maybe we can come to some sort of reckoning here. Otherwise all spammable gambit skills capable of doing this are deemed OP and nerfed to hell and back as just another way to maintain established aggro.
I also agree that the warden isnt the class that it was. Now its a new creature. Now with the removal of stat caps and things classes growing more powerful faster than ever coupled with the mitigation changes that came with RoI, i dont see how the old warden could have ever survived. Its simply an unscaling creature that will likely have to be reborn in every major expac.
I also agree that the warden isnt the class that it was. Now its a new creature. Now with the removal of stat caps and things classes growing more powerful faster than ever coupled with the mitigation changes that came with RoI, i dont see how the old warden could have ever survived. Its simply an unscaling creature that will likely have to be reborn in every major expac.
I think it could have been made to scale and had its other issues cleaned up without abandoning the gambit system. This would have left it competitive without changing the simple, elegant design of the original class.
It's a moot point, though. Orion obviously has different goals, and the warden won't ever go back.
You guys are misunderstanding. Hitting it twice does nothing. If the highest threat is 1,000,000, then hitting it once would give you 950,000. Hitting it a second time would give you 950,000. Hitting it ten more times would still leave you at 950,000. You would have to make up the extra 50,000 amother way.
OK I understand now. It only copies the aggro, it does not "add" it to your aggro pool.
The only issue, again, is that it is spammable. So at any point in the fight, whenever you want, you can be very close to the lead for aggro. Unless you add a cd to it. Which would be fine to me. We already have a cd gambit with stun immunity, what's one more?
It's more the emergency skills that I think require clickies with cd's of some kind. It's pretty tough to predict disaster. That is why Never Surrender is on clicky cd right? If it was a 5 length gambit I don't think I could ever get it off before being killed.
Same with DC. It could be a gambit but it would have to have a cd. And being a gambit makes it lose it's "emergency" status.
I agree that our heals could be scaled with content. Just have the buffs return a %morale based on the damage taken. So a hit for 1000 could return 5% of the damage as morale (so 50 heal). Get 4 running and you get 20% (200 heal) on a hit for 1000. Or 2000 heal on a hit for 10,000. No more solo gods 'cause we can't overheal ourselves but perfect scaling for damaging content.
Curiously, the evolution of the internet seems inversely proportional to the evolution of man.
It's more the emergency skills that I think require clickies with cd's of some kind. It's pretty tough to predict disaster. That is why Never Surrender is on clicky cd right? If it was a 5 length gambit I don't think I could ever get it off before being killed.
Same with DC. It could be a gambit but it would have to have a cd. And being a gambit makes it lose it's "emergency" status.
You may be right, but we will never know. I agree some things would be difficult. Guardians would have it better in some cases because clickies would work better. However, we could have strengths in other areas to compensate. Overall, I think it would be possible for the classes to be comparable.
It won't happen, though, bceause it isn't a priority for Turbine. Instead, they are taking the easy route. Clickies and cooldowns.
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convince Orion to bring it back to its former glory and maybe we can come to some sort of reckoning here. Otherwise all spammable gambit skills capable of doing this are deemed OP and nerfed to hell and back as just another way to maintain established aggro. 
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