Thread: Update 6.1 (Hadolin-Set-Bonus)

The Hadollin set will now properly increase crit damage magnitude on cries and calls.

Does anybody knows what is meant by this? Was the damage of crys and calls before the update 6.1 to high or to low when wearing the Hadolin-gear?

Originally Posted by Thaliomel

Does anybody knows what is meant by this? Was the damage of crys and calls before the update 6.1 to high or to low when wearing the Hadolin-gear?

The 5 piece bonus never functioned. It now will.

are you sure?

sry for insisting, but i played minstrel last couple of weeks pretty much and i experienced the damage already really really sufficient ;-)

The damage is sufficient but the set bonus wasn't working. They're not the same thing

ok, thx for reply :-)

Originally Posted by Gillianrial

The damage is sufficient but the set bonus wasn't working. They're not the same thing

For me was not sufficient... Infact for some wierd reason my dps was extremely low compared to even a few weeks ago.

Originally Posted by Norwrei

For me was not sufficient... Infact for some wierd reason my dps was extremely low compared to even a few weeks ago.

We don't have good DPS, we have the ability - when geared for it - to do some nice crit burst damage. Not "DPS" considering our Calls have long CDs. *shrug*

Minstrel's used to totally rule solo landscapes/instances which was nice cause that meant there were plenty of minstrels leveled up for raiding. With ROI they beefed up the rest(nearly all I think) of the classes tons and I'd say the minstrel thou perfectly capable of blowing stuff up isn't at the top of the mountain anymore. I used to grind solo skirms with my Min because it was crazy fast but now I think my hunter is faster and the bug would be as fast if he didn't have to walk up to everything first. I'd guess Champs are the bomb now but I don't drive one so can't really say for sure.

Having the minstrel too powerful causes issues in the Moors. Even now they are OP for moors but that's a separate issue.

First live-tests (with and without 5-bonus) ... no difference on tested crys and calls, seems still bugged

In fact I'm doing less damage on any NPC then I was doing before. I hardly crit and average hit is 500-700 sometimes less, hardly more. 80% of a time i'm doing less damage then I was doing before

Originally Posted by Lysell

First live-tests (with and without 5-bonus) ... no difference on tested crys and calls, seems still bugged

Odd. My set bonus is now working as intended.

Originally Posted by Christyn

In fact I'm doing less damage on any NPC then I was doing before. I hardly crit [...] 80% of a time i'm doing less damage then I was doing before

I must agree here. I noticed that my crit peaks raised. But it appears that im dealing with a lower critchance than before 6.1. Anyone else with this experience??

Originally Posted by Lysell

First live-tests (with and without 5-bonus) ... no difference on tested crys and calls, seems still bugged

No, it is definitely fixed. Tested and confirmed, the 5 set finally does something now. Well, I shouldn't say it is fixed...it increases the damage. I'm too lazy to find out if it increases it by the advertised amount.

The set bonus was indeed broken before, but far from doing nothing, it gave an insane +25% crit chance instead of +25% crit magnitude, resulting in a much higher damage output than was ever intended for the class.

Shame on all the minstrels who've been abusing it in the Ettenmoors for months and didn't /bug it, or maybe worse, oblivious to the fact their crit rate doubled overnight.

Originally Posted by Equendil

The set bonus was indeed broken before, but far from doing nothing, it gave an insane +25% crit chance instead of +25% crit magnitude, resulting in a much higher damage output than was ever intended for the class.

Shame on all the minstrels who've been abusing it in the Ettenmoors for months and didn't /bug it, or maybe worse, oblivious to the fact their crit rate doubled overnight.

My critical rating has remained unchanged before and after the fix...so where are you getting this from? If there was a bug (and I am dubious of this), it never was reflected in the character sheet.

Originally Posted by Equendil

The set bonus was indeed broken before, but far from doing nothing, it gave an insane +25% crit chance instead of +25% crit magnitude, resulting in a much higher damage output than was ever intended for the class.

Shame on all the minstrels who've been abusing it in the Ettenmoors for months and didn't /bug it, or maybe worse, oblivious to the fact their crit rate doubled overnight.

Uhh...I'm not sure about this. I suppose it was possible, but I never noticed it.

Originally Posted by Gillianrial

My critical rating has remained unchanged before and after the fix...so where are you getting this from? If there was a bug (and I am dubious of this), it never was reflected in the character sheet.

Didn't increase your critical rating, it increased the crit chance of at least your calls, maybe some cries. Just like the war-skald bonus won't show in your character sheet, or the crit chance bonus for piercing cry when in war-speech or with unrelenting slotted.

I hadn't bothered getting 5 pieces of the set myself as it had been reported here on forums the bonus wasn't working, but I noticed insane crit rates far beyond normal from specific minstrels in the Ettenmoors while playing my creeps, suspected that set was the reason, bartered for it, fired up Combat Analysis and lo and behold, my crit rate went up through the roof, 50% or so for Call of Orome / Call to Fate. Very noticeable frankly, /bugged it immediately.

Edit: This is also why we had discussions on whether or not minstrels can "dps", with parses like this one using the broken Hadolin set: http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.p...80#post6028680

33% crit is pretty reasonable. The set wouldn't have to increase Crit Chance for that.

Originally Posted by PhantomPunkk

33% crit is pretty reasonable. The set wouldn't have to increase Crit Chance for that.

Why of course, nothing a little self delusion can't sort.

Originally Posted by Equendil

Why of course, nothing a little self delusion can't sort.

It is perfectly reasonable provided you use certain skills. Calls can have their crit maxed @ 25% with the red trait, easily. Ballads can hit over the cap traited, PC is well over the cap.

I'm not even sporting a max crit build since I use the old adamant gems of dreams.




Would have kept going but I don't think it's worth power pots.

Originally Posted by Equendil

The set bonus was indeed broken before, but far from doing nothing, it gave an insane +25% crit chance instead of +25% crit magnitude, resulting in a much higher damage output than was ever intended for the class.

Shame on all the minstrels who've been abusing it in the Ettenmoors for months and didn't /bug it, or maybe worse, oblivious to the fact their crit rate doubled overnight.

That does make some sense in my mind, I always wondered why I critted so often. I tried to put it on the legendary trait but I felt that 3000 critical rating couldn't explain it sufficiently...

Originally Posted by Gillianrial

We don't have good DPS, we have the ability - when geared for it - to do some nice crit burst damage. Not "DPS" considering our Calls have long CDs. *shrug*

Sorry but with all due respect I disagree. :-)

Originally Posted by Norwrei

Sorry but with all due respect I disagree. :-)

You must not play any actual DPS classes then.

I only play the Minstrel. However, the Minstrel in my personal opinion is both a healing and dps class that can switch roles like the RK.

To other person about the insane crit chances.. sorry I did not see that at all but find it interesting that you not being a dev make such an unfounded statement. Back it up please. Thanks.

PS I'm not an Ettens Mini.. only a noob rank of 2 here actually lol. I also do not feel the Mini is OP in Ettens. I know I die all the time there when I go. I feel that if a Mini or any other class does well in Ettens it is simply because they are a good and experienced player... not because they are OP. :-) There is MUCH more to this game than Ettens. Let's all try to remember that.

Any class can do damage. The potential damage output of a Minstrel is significantly lower than that of a Hunter, Champion, Rune-keeper, or Burglar. You'd never realistically want one for DPS in a PvE group.

I'm not going to get into a heated meaningless debate with you but I will say this, that I do not think that one can make that assumption because everyone has a fingerprint/playstyle/build/gear for their class. In otherwords, unless you've been in my shoes you cannot possibly know. You can make general assumptions based on a traditional set up, etc and nothing more.

Originally Posted by PhantomPunkk

Any class can do damage. The potential damage output of a Minstrel is significantly lower than that of a Hunter, Champion, Rune-keeper, or Burglar. You'd never realistically want one for DPS in a PvE group.

Thank god we got those heals to make up for it.. Know what I mean? God forbid I don't crit

Originally Posted by Norwrei

I'm not going to get into a heated meaningless debate with you but I will say this, that I do not think that one can make that assumption because everyone has a fingerprint/playstyle/build/gear for their class. In otherwords, unless you've been in my shoes you cannot possibly know. You can make general assumptions based on a traditional set up, etc and nothing more.

Crit damage every 10-30 seconds does not make a DPS class, and that's what we contribute because our calls are on long CDs. Sustained damage per second is "DPS." Just simple gaming models. Doesn't mean you can't mess around in WS in instances and contribute; just means that your real DPS has to make up for it, which in this game is not a huge deal considering the content doesn't require it. Not taking anything away from your playstyle; it's really just math.

Originally Posted by PhantomPunkk

It is perfectly reasonable provided you use certain skills.

... and no auto attacks, because we wouldn't want to skew results would we ...

Would have kept going but I don't think it's worth power pots.

Plus the longer it goes, the less likely your crit rate to show above average.

Originally Posted by Equendil

... and no auto attacks, because we wouldn't want to skew results would we ...


Plus the longer it goes, the less likely your crit rate to show above average.

You're acting like people even knew this was a potential bug...which is pretty silly, considering there's absolutely no evidence of it whatsoever.

Anecdotally, I still crit as much as I always have since RoI anyway. Just anecdotally. I haven't noticed anything different wearing the 5 set before and wearing it after 6.1, outside of the 5 set bonus actually working as advertised for the first time.

But I guess go on "shaming" people lol.

Originally Posted by Norwrei

To other person about the insane crit chances.. sorry I did not see that at all but find it interesting that you not being a dev make such an unfounded statement. Back it up please. Thanks.

I did repeated testing over a few days, only bothered to screenshot the first batch the summary of which was:

Hadolin set 5/5: 155 hits of Call of Orome & Call to Fate: 73 crits (47%), 8 dev crits (5%)
Hadolin set 4/5: 159 hits of Call of Orome & Call to fate: 31 crits (19.5%), 13 dev crits (8%)

Further sessions just kept showing the same thing.

Again, it was fairly obvious, and at least two posters in this thread reported their crit rate to have decreased with the patch, before I even posted.

Originally Posted by Equendil

... and no auto attacks, because we wouldn't want to skew results would we ...


Plus the longer it goes, the less likely your crit rate to show above average.

... how do you know he didn't auto attack? looked like he did to me, from the min damage value. The fact that auto attack was turned off in the screenshot means nothing as he was out of combat when he took the SS.

EDIT: Also his point was that it's not difficult to have a very high crit using certain skills.

Originally Posted by Equendil

Again, it was fairly obvious, and at least two posters in this thread reported their crit rate to have decreased with the patch, before I even posted.

As I said, you are not a dev and your results mean nothing to me. I also do not trust the plugin combat analysis. Then again, that's my opinion. Btw, that's not exactly a scientific control type of testing is it? No. I don't think so.

Originally Posted by Draykfyre

... how do you know he didn't auto attack? looked like he did to me, from the min damage value. The fact that auto attack was turned off in the screenshot means nothing as he was out of combat when he took the SS.

EDIT: Also his point was that it's not difficult to have a very high crit using certain skills.

Reading comprehension is against the rules on this forum.

Originally Posted by Draykfyre

... how do you know he didn't auto attack?

87 attacks total in 111 seconds for a start ...

EDIT: Also his point was that it's not difficult to have a very high crit using certain skills.

Sadly his point was an attempt to demonstrate that such a crit rate by another minstrel who was *not* doing that was perfectly reasonable. Pretty dishonest.

Originally Posted by Norwrei

As I said, you are not a dev and your results mean nothing to me.

Then why ask me to "back it up", if you want to be in denial, be in denial *shrug*.

Originally Posted by Equendil

Sadly his point was an attempt to demonstrate that such a crit rate by another minstrel who was *not* doing that was perfectly reasonable. Pretty dishonest.

I never made any such claim.

Originally Posted by PhantomPunkk

Reading comprehension is against the rules on this forum.

Originally Posted by Equendil

Sadly his point was an attempt to demonstrate that such a crit rate by another minstrel who was *not* doing that was perfectly reasonable. Pretty dishonest.

Originally Posted by PhantomPunkk

I never made any such claim.

You:

Originally Posted by PhantomPunkk

33% crit is pretty reasonable. The set wouldn't have to increase Crit Chance for that.

which was in reference to http://www.upload.ee/image/2137397/ScreenShot00061.jpg, a screenshot of a parse of a minstrel who did most defintively not "use certain skills" as you did.

So yes, in fact, you made that claim.

Originally Posted by Equendil

You:

which was in reference to http://www.upload.ee/image/2137397/ScreenShot00061.jpg, a screenshot of a parse of a minstrel who did most defintively not "use certain skills" as you did.

So yes, in fact, you made that claim.

Think you may be misunderstanding or misreading...one or the other.