Thread: Champion Tanking

Heya all,

I have been leveling a champ for sometime now... about a year and a half... I am approaching endgame on the champ and I am loving glory stance (Honestly, feels a little OP). I am trying to figure out if Champ tanks are a good choice for a 6/12 man group.

Any tips for tanking? I have been trying to keep hedge up at all times and I do not seem to have a prob holding aggro from people who are above level from me(1 to 3 levels). Is it suggested to use an off-hand for additional stats or 2h for harder hits for more aggro? Any tips or tricks?

Also any idea what this "Glorified Combatant" is or how it works?

well, I advise you to DW when your going to aggro lots of mobs, because u can just keep them bleeding, and use huge AoEs, but, if your going to thank a boss, then a 2h would be better, because bigger hits = bigger aggro, and 2h is good against single mob

Originally Posted by BrentMcBrian

...I am trying to figure out if Champ tanks are a good choice for a 6/12 man group.

Champs can tank most content in the game, and with some fine-tuned Legendary items pretty much everything except Orthanc T2 (not saying its impossible, just that it is hard). Champions have some very useful legacies for that.

It was normal for champs to tank skirmish raids for example after RoI, because the GRDs levelled slower and the wardens fell into identity crisis

Any tips for tanking? I have been trying to keep hedge up at all times and I do not seem to have a prob holding aggro from people who are above level from me(1 to 3 levels). Is it suggested to use an off-hand for additional stats or 2h for harder hits for more aggro? Any tips or tricks?

Identify the people that are likely to pull aggro. Use rising ire on them to leech their threat. Because you leech 15% and add this amount to yours, this will give you a 30% threat advantage over this person.

Your aggro will not come from a lot of damage. In glory you are so far behind the damage curve that you cannot keep up with others´ damage as a threat builder. In a tough tanking situation, you will be more than busy with keeping your defenses up anyway. You will also be a bit power starved when throwing in too many damaging skills. Not to forget, you´ll still be on clobber duty.

I do not consider twohanders a good choice for glory tanking. Twohanders do lots of damage when you can pull of your brutal rotation, but when glory tanking they are too slow and you want to save your fervour for special skills. Sudden defence and invincible all need to consume 5 fervour pips for best effect. Ferocious and Raging blades have an added threat component when in Glory and both need 4/5 fervour as well. It follows that the added stats from an offhand weapon are worth more here.

Blade-wall and wild attack need to be traited and become your stock aggro builders. When fighting only a single boss, or a boss that does not deal common/Fire/Shadow damage, it is useful to trait "Stalwart Blade" to switch Blade-wall into a pip builder because Glorious exchange pip return will not trigger often.

Also any idea what this "Glorified Combatant" is or how it works?

Exalted combatant is basically a heal for about 2.5k that MAY trigger when traited at least 4blue and in glory, and upon falling below 20% morale. It will then have a cooldown of 90 seconds. The Champion Draigoch armor reduces this to 60 seconds when you have 5 pieces.

Since we have no tooltip at all of this "skill", noone exactly knows how it works and what causes it.

Originally Posted by Vandervahn

Exalted combatant is basically a heal for about 2.5k that MAY trigger when traited at least 4blue and in glory, and upon falling below 20% morale. It will then have a cooldown of 90 seconds. The Champion Draigoch armor reduces this to 60 seconds when you have 5 pieces.

Since we have no tooltip at all of this "skill", noone exactly knows how it works and what causes it.

I don't think it has those requirements...
I was soloing Defence of Aughaire the other day. Was traited 4r/2y/1b. I saw Exalted Combatant heal being applied twice that day.

Thats why i say, noone knows exactly what causes it because of conflicting reports as yours.
The official statements towards it never explain the thing fully, because it also was apparently changed between beta and RoI live.
We have stuff like http://my.lotro.com/user-55/2011/05/...nd-trait-sets/ and http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.p...62#post5632362, but it is hard to verify which of these requirements are solid.

For me personally, Exalted combatant has only ever triggered in glory when I noticed it. Dont know about specific traiting, but I´m usually 4B or more when in glory. Maybe its just a bug when it triggers outside of deep blue glory.

Advice:

- Stack tact mitis.
- Get a good phys miti bow.
- Stack morale and vitality.
- Make a set of tanking LIs.
- Use incoming healing/morale setting, crit def/morale gem and incoming healing rune on your LIs.
- Always use dual-wield, no matter what, since we don't hold aggro through DPS.
- Have lower than expected avoidances, since we need to get hit to primarily hold aggro.
- Always have at least 5 blue traits (I'll let you figure out which are important).
- Spam Wild attack (aggro and reduces cd on Sudden defence), Blade-wall (aggro), Hedge (for its buffs), Bracing attack (for heals and +incoming healing), Sudden defence (for bubble and short cd), Rising ire (cycle through DPS classes for best aggro and keep using skills to reduce cd) and Invincible (high -incoming damage at full fervour cost)*.
- Using Raging blade will help to grab initial aggro of a group of mobs but Blade-wall and getting hit (with the occasional extra Raging blade) will hold them on you (if no one else is DPSing those mobs, use Rising ire on the healer but if they are, use Rising ire on the DPS and focus single target aggro on the RAT inbetween usual AOE aggro).

Can't think of much else. It only really occurs to me when I'm in the middle of tanking.

*All of these need the appropriate traits.

Adding to Doro's post, The good phys mit bow you should have is Cumaeth. Other than that, focus more on tact mit.

The traits I use for tanking are Imp Hedge, Glorious Exchange, Call of the Wild, Agressive Exchange, Braced against Defeat/ Vigour of Champions. 7th trait I use ardent rage, for the instant RB to draw initial aggro.

Not a fan of the Blade-wall aggro trait. If I'm tanking something like a skirmish, sure, but aggro shouldn't be a problem outside Raging/Reprisal/Rising.

When 4 deep I run:

• Reprisal
• Braced Against Defeat
• Call of the Wild
• Tight Grip

For a fifth it's kind of situational, but Time of Need or Vigour of Champions are main contenders. Probably defaulting to Time of Need 90% of the time. I just... don't feel I need the aggro from Blade-wall or the Rising Ire cooldown reduction. If I'm tanking something that requires 4 or 5 blue, the concern is surviving, not aggro, so those are the traits I go for.

Additional traits are any from the following, depending on what fight/instance I'm walking into.

• Stalwart Blade
• Flurry of Blows
• Blood-lust
• Ardent Rage

Can't think of anything else that'd be particularly helpful to tanking enough to bother with. Controlled Fury... eh, maybe, but not crazy about it.

this is a great thread and would like to see more added to it. I'm finding myself having to tank a little bit more than i expected and the trait recommendations are very helpful.

With regards to tanking LI's I've been looking at building 2 tanking-specific LI's. What would the recommended legacies be?

rune you probably want to go with:

Dire need
glory power regen
bracing attack
adamant
hedge armour

and maybe chuck a vit legacy on


weapon:

sudden defence cooldown
wild attack


ive probably missed something, but thats pretty much the gist of it and what I have myself

Well I have:

1 Handed Sword
- Relentless
- Crit
- AOE
- Wild attack
- Sudden defence cooldown
- Vitality

Rune
- Dire need
- Bracing attack
- Adamant duration
- Hedge armour rating
- Glory in-combat power regeb
- Vitality

Weapon mostly doesn't matter outside of Sudden Defense and Wild Attack. Crit I guess if you have it. Whatever, really, as long as you've got Sudden Defense. Just don't be dumb and run Feral or something. I'm hard-pressed to see an argument for Ferocious anymore, either, honestly.

My Rune's a bit old, but I haven't cared to change its legacies until I upgrade its Age.

• Glory/Ardour Parry/Evade
• Glory/Ardour Pip Interval
• Bracing Magnitude
• Ad/Inv Duration
• Hedge Armour Magnitude

And... I honestly don't remember the last one.

There is no longer a legacy for Rising Ire, and it was on the Rune when it existed. It is now replaced with Battle Acuity Duration.

Originally Posted by Vandervahn

For me personally, Exalted combatant has only ever triggered in glory when I noticed it. Dont know about specific traiting, but I´m usually 4B or more when in glory. Maybe its just a bug when it triggers outside of deep blue glory.

For 4 deep "improved" glory and in glory stance it triggers for me constantly enough in 1v1 PvMP that I see it and can count on it like clockwork. I have EVEN stance swapped from ferv to glory (while traited 4B) and gotten the heal immediately when swapped in a timely manner.

I've personally never had Exalted Combatant fail me unless I was one-shotted from above the threshold of its activation percentage, which I believe is supposed to be 20% or something. And with no heavy shield (or any shield) and lacking some serious crit def and sturdiness traits that Guardians have, that's definitely possible, especially in raids. Shouldn't ever happen in 6mans or even 12man skirmishes, though. Too many bubbles and mit abilities and heals to let a 20% hit realistically go through outside of Orthanc.

Good info in this thread for champs looking to tank. For most fights just doing the basics of having a tanking rune, some vit/morale enhancing gear, having the correct virtues for the job at hand, and hitting the correct buttons should do it for you.

T2 Orthanc was where I really felt a bit stretched as a champ main tank. The orthanc tank gear is a great set to pick up as well as some other nice vit, parry, evade items from raid skirms. T2 lighting boss was doable but I did feel pretty close to my limits at times of what I could take while still keeping on top of aggro. Here the rising ire cd reduction and blade wall aggro traits really came in handy for me so they are certainly situationally good to have in your arsenal and should be kept in mind. So if you have no one else to step up it can be done if you are feeling adventurous and have the gear to do it right.

Really the only things I would ask of Turbine in future looks at champ tanking:

• Rising ire should be usable raid wide not just in the fellowship and have about 5m more range. /shakefist at the the times when the the group is maneuvering and my current rising ire target is dodging just outside my 15m range like a prize fighter.
• Scale the glory morale bonus a bit more aggressively and make sure this improves at a rate comparable to guards, wardens, and captains (high fives for great tanking captains) morale gains as the game and gear progresses on.
• Get rid of the damage type requirement on exchange of blows. Any damage should have a chance to activate it. This is a huge pain in some fights that do not do the correct damage type and seems like a reasonable way to generate more pips and threat when you REALLY need them without overdoing the generation in situations where you have a ton of common damage mobs.

Overall we are in a good spot in the tanking department. Don't be afraid to give it a try.

PS: I personally like hedge armor on my rune over dire need cd. The one minute cd reduction on dire need needs a fourth pool A and considering you should be keeping hedge up as much as possible since it is awesome I just find that to be a more effective overall legacy. The last legacy I would add to Feybobiam's list is glory in-combat power regen.

My rune has Ardour/Glory power, Ardour/Glory parry/evade, hedge armor, bracing heal, Adamant/Invincible duration and AoE power reduction. Power's a big problem and using Blade-Wall as often as I do, plus raging for multi-mob pulls, I found that AoE power legacy pretty necessary because of Glory's low power regen. Relics I use: the previously store only, now meldable, 250 morale/1300 inc heal/+100 something ICPR setting, the morale/power/crit def gem, and the agi/parry/partial mit rune. I have the agi/phys mastery/crit crafted relic. I'd use the same relics on a dedicated tanking 1h, but I don't have one at the moment. Using Cumaeth for tanking (slightly higher phys mit on the new bow isn't really needed when I can easily cap phys mit with hedge up anyway, plus I love the 500 crit).

I really like agi in my tanking build as we get the full avoidance benefits from it, unlike might, and evade is easily the best of the 3 avoidances anyway. Lots of tanking gear is a little short on agi anyway, so things like relics are a good way to make up for it a little. When our self buffs, self heals, increased aggro, etc. all rely on having us hit our targets, having enough agi to actually do so really helps, too.

Using Orthod chest, gloves, legs and boots with the skirm tank helm (vit, parry I believe, huge inc healing and finesse) and Pits T2 shoulders (might, vit, huge inc healing and evade). Still need Sarchol from the pits, and I'll probably swap the Horseman's Golden Necklace for the new Great River crafted one with higher inc healing and mits, though I'll lose some morale and parry. Limlight Martyr set, Earring of the Defiant, that purple might/morale/power bracelet from Foundry + Easterling's War Bracelet (could maybe stand to upgrade these), R4 PvP ring. Purple barter mace from Standgrad with might/vit/parry for offhand.

For traits, I really like:
Class - Tight Grip, Braced Against Defeat, Reprisal, Call of the Wild, Aggressive Exchange, Ardent Rage and Stalwart Blade.
Legendary - Invincible, Raging Blades, Controlled Burn.

For boss fights I'll swap out Ardent Rage for At the Ready and Raging for Ferocious.

Power is a problem, but not enough to justify swapping out the important aggro/survivability traits for Vigour of Champs. Plus, there's really no other "must-have" tanking legendary that makes me need to drop CB, so I just keep that slotted as a big power battery for long fights when my power starts to drop off (the other parts of it aren't too shabby, either).

With buffs up I'm sitting around 15k morale, 18-19% parry, 16% evade, capped phys mit (with hedge up! important to keep this in mind so you're not putting more in your build than is needed elsewhere), 60%-ish tact (will go a lot higher when I get that Pits cloak and swap necklaces). 18% inc healing unbuffed, Bracing makes it 33% half the time. I think I'm around 450 agi and a little under 1k might.

Great info... some conficting things but overall very very helpful! Thank you to everyone who helped out!

Also, when pulling a boss, use Champion's Challenge, not your bow or any other skill. This will force him to attack you for 10 seconds, and thus for ten seconds, you'll get to reflect damage via Exchange of Blows. Since Exchange of Blows gives some huge threat, by time the force attack duration is over, the boss will stick to you anyway because of the threat build-up.

Originally Posted by Haunt123

Also, when pulling a boss, use Champion's Challenge, not your bow or any other skill. This will force him to attack you for 10 seconds, and thus for ten seconds, you'll get to reflect damage via Exchange of Blows. Since Exchange of Blows gives some huge threat, by time the force attack duration is over, the boss will stick to you anyway because of the threat build-up.

I prefer not to use Challenge to open a fight. I rather like to tell the group to wait for the first raging blades (you can't miss the sound of shing-shing ) to go through before starting to DPS. By that time I will have build aggro through Blade Wall, Wild Attack, Raging Blades and of course Exchange of blows, so that the mob should keep hammering at me. This way my challenge if off CD in case that the mobs turns around in the first seconds of the fight. Later on threat shouldn't be much of an issue, just rise ire off the DPS classes as often as possible.

Originally Posted by Vodomir

I prefer not to use Challenge to open a fight. I rather like to tell the group to wait for the first raging blades (you can't miss the sound of shing-shing ) to go through before starting to DPS. By that time I will have build aggro through Blade Wall, Wild Attack, Raging Blades and of course Exchange of blows, so that the mob should keep hammering at me. This way my challenge if off CD in case that the mobs turns around in the first seconds of the fight. Later on threat shouldn't be much of an issue, just rise ire off the DPS classes as often as possible.

I start off with C'sC in case there might be people who don't listen

It's more of a precaution, so that when I am building my threat, no one steals the aggro and puts me in panic mode

Originally Posted by Haunt123

I start off with C'sC in case there might be people who don't listen

It's more of a precaution, so that when I am building my threat, no one steals the aggro and puts me in panic mode

Hehe, never trust the group you are running with xD Sadly true, sometimes I tell my groupm several times in a run to just hold back until Raging Blades is through and still the first arrow flies before I reach the mob. If it goes like this, I will for sure open the next fights with either Challenge or True Heroics, whatever is off CD.

I'd have to say, never open with Champion's Challenge, especially if you have a burglar in the group. They have a nasty habit of wanting to stun and open conjunctions on the boss straight away, thinking they're helping but not realising they're actually making it harder for the champ tank. By the time they've come back out of the conjunction, the challenge was wasted and the boss just runs to the aggro of the highest DPS.

Always open with either running in to activate or by pulling the adds to you but remember to tell the others (and repeat this because so many seem to be unable to comprehend it) NOT to do anything until you say so. I can't tell you the number of times a perfectly good pull has been ruined because a hunter decides to DPS before the target has even got to you and then they run off with it or a burg starts with a stun and ruins the initial chance at aggro building.