Thread: Burg Virtues.. Let me hear it...

Been on this game for five years now, and I just started a Burg for the first time. Really love this toon, but I want to hear from the Burg Experts, (I Was always a hunter) On what direction to go with the traits and virtues.. Give me the INFO...

The standard virtues for all classes are Zeal and Valour for morale and Fidelity, Tolerance and Honour for tactical mitigation.

Originally Posted by Merowin

The standard virtues for all classes are Zeal and Valour for morale and Fidelity, Tolerance and Honour for tactical mitigation.

i use determination instead of honour, the other ones are the same.

Originally Posted by sdf-blarelius

i use determination instead of honour, the other ones are the same.

Determination is nice while leveling for the Agility.
At cap Determination is less usefull because we can stack Agility in many other places.
Virtues offer certain stats that are hard to get.

I also use Zeal and Valour, and change the other 3 depending on the content.
Tac Mit for Tower or Orthanc, and Phys Mit in general or Draigoch.

But while levelling I didn't really completed the deeds for virtues I needed so I ended up slotting the ones depending on what I had.
Some "bad" virtue at 6 was better than zeal at 1 for example.
If you keep your gear up to date I think the virtues don't matter that much before reaching cap and raiding.

quite often you dont need that much mitigation, so i prefer to take the damage there, but thats just personal preference and can be adapted to the encounter.

Originally Posted by sdf-blarelius

i use determination instead of honour, the other ones are the same.

same here


more chars

Originally Posted by Jarnos

Determination is nice while leveling for the Agility.
At cap Determination is less usefull because we can stack Agility in many other places.
Virtues offer certain stats that are hard to get.

I also use Zeal and Valour, and change the other 3 depending on the content.
Tac Mit for Tower or Orthanc, and Phys Mit in general or Draigoch.

But while levelling I didn't really completed the deeds for virtues I needed so I ended up slotting the ones depending on what I had.
Some "bad" virtue at 6 was better than zeal at 1 for example.
If you keep your gear up to date I think the virtues don't matter that much before reaching cap and raiding.

Something doesn't add up here. You don't slot Determination because it is easy to stack Agility at lvl 75, but you do slot Zeal and Valour...because raw morale boost is so hard to get? hmmmkay.

Virtues are nice little thingies. I switch them quite often but to have Fidelity, Tolerance, Honour, Innocence, Determination, Zeal and Valour on 14 gives you enough oppurtunities to adapt to every situation (EM, Raid, 3-/6-man, Solo)

Zeal.

Otherwise, trait for what you're doing

Originally Posted by Stealthiness

Something doesn't add up here. You don't slot Determination because it is easy to stack Agility at lvl 75, but you do slot Zeal and Valour...because raw morale boost is so hard to get? hmmmkay.

Virtues are nice little thingies. I switch them quite often but to have Fidelity, Tolerance, Honour, Innocence, Determination, Zeal and Valour on 14 gives you enough oppurtunities to adapt to every situation (EM, Raid, 3-/6-man, Solo)

Zeal has the added benefit of also giving Phys Mit, and Armour. which are all pretty good.
(Must admit that incombat morale regen. and morale as third bnous on determination aren't bad either.
But here's the math as I see it:

Determination gives 42 Agility at rank 14. This is almost 1/3 of the Agility I get on various Items.
Zeal gives 389 morale at rank 14. I can't get an item that gives 1167 morale.

With 2000 Agility, 42 would be about a 2,1% increase.
At 6000 morale, 389 is a about 6,4% increase.
( I took average numbers here)

For me, this does add up.

In the end, it's all about balance. You can slot Determination instead of Zeal, and then use a different relic on your LI to give morale instead of Agil of Phys Mastery.
The only way to really determine what is best is to compare all the different ways of getting stats and see which offer the best deal ( for example, for virtues the ratio is 42 agil to 389 morale ( -98 morale deter gives)
A relic might give 20 agil to 150 morale.
Problem is all of these come with other added stats most of the time.
There's probably somebody who did the math on all this

I always slot
-valor
-zeal
-determination

and...

Here is where my picks will get a little more controversial so let me explain my approach. Most people like tolerance, innocence etc for mitigations, but IMO the amount of phys/tact mitigation you get from virtues is sad and pathetic compared what you can get on items so using virtue slots for mitigations seems wasteful to me.

I looked at how the devs tend to assign stats to items (61 primary stat = 324 morale = 284 power = 55.2 icpr = 984 resist = 1992 finese = 655 crit = 655 evade = 1229 tact mitigation = 656 phys mastery = etc) I personally disagree with the value the devs give some of those stats. For example, I don't usually need a lot of power/icpr/resist. I also think the devs over value phys mastery compared to agility, etc so I change the equivalences to (61 agility = 61 vitality = 655 crit = 284 morale = 568 power = 284 icpr = 2000 resist = 984 phys mastery = etc) If I use these value to calculate the "value" of the various virtues something interesting happens. Some of the very best virtues are....

Honour (resist, tact mit, vitality)
Charity (resist, phy mit, oocpr)
Confidence (resist, will, icpr)

Yep, even though I nuke the value of resist and require 2000 of the stat to be the equivalent of 61 in a primary stat (Much worse then how devs seem to value the stat) it still seems to make sense to use virtues to get resist... In fact the single best place in the game to get the resist stat is from virtues.

So... For my last two slots I take :
Hounor
Charity

Yes I have tons more resist then most burgs

Yes Im in the minority in even considering these virtues

Yes I do actually see myself resist a fair amount of attacks

Food for thought...

I almost always run Valour/Determination/Zeal/Tolerance/Loyalty.

I run Valour/Justice/Determination/Zeal/Tolerance. All rank 14+.

was wondering the same thing myself so glad I dont have to start another post. My burglar is level 40 and I just feel -weak-

I dont have the exact numbers of my character but my agility, vitality, and fate numbers are hovering around 200 and I feel like they should be quite higher than that. My critical hit rating is sitting at or near 790, I've slotted determination(4), loyalty(4), empathy(4), Innocence(4), and Idealism(5). Now, I just upgraded my armour to level 38 which gave me a nice boost in some of these categories, I guess long story short, my overall morale is about 1969 and power is around 1300 something. Do these numbers seem on par with my burglars level or am I completely neglecting something?

Also, In the above posts I see that none of the 75 burglars slot idealism or empathy so that means no fate, does it become null and void at cap level or are you getting it from somewhere else? any feedback is much appreciated, thank you : )

Fate will give you ICPR and crit, but the ICPR bonus from fate has some serious diminishing returns and the bonus to crit is very low. 100 fate on an item will give you 180 crit, but you can easily pick up twice that or more as raw crit on an item. Both ICPR and crit are therefore more effectively picked up as raw ICPR and crit bonuses and not through fate.

Generally, primary stats like agility, vitality or fate are better picked up on items where a bonus of 120 is not uncommon, instead of through virtues where the bonus is only 42. I would recommend using your virtues to pick up morale, mitigations and resistances, where virtues will give you bonuses as good or better than what you find on items.

For leveling however, you just want to slot whatever virtues you have at a decent rank. About feeling weak on a burglar, you could always have a look at your armour, if it's 10 levels below you it may be time to upgrade. But the burglar is weak, play him like a guard and you will have problems. You have to fight one enemy at a time and learn to use all your little tricks. I don't know what you have at level 40, but the skills that you can use to make fights easier include Touch and Go, Find Footing, Knives Out, Riddle, Startling Twist, Mischievious Glee, Exploit Opening, Ready and Able, Reveal Weakness, Counter Defence, Disable, etc...

I went with Zeal but dropped Valour.

I use Determination, but might switch it out now that my AGI is > 1000.

I use Innocence and Empathy.

For the last slots I use Wisdom (my power pool is a tad low), or Compassion (ranged mit).


I need to work on my virtues though. My Zeal is only 10! The rest are 11-13.

For leveling, Determination, Innocence, and Valour are some of my favorites.

I can't pull up the game and post at the same time, but since I game alone most of the time, having max morale and a fast regen (especially in-combat) makes the difference in how long I can last in a fight.

So, I pick virtues and traits that benefit those issues first and foremost. Then I pick traits that benefit how much damage I can do in a fight. The rest is gravy.