Thread: The Shunned Hunter

I have noticed a trend the past few weeks. I have responded to advertised instances and quests in global chat, only to be told they didn't want any hunters along. This has happened four times now. I don't normally get many chances to do group events and such, I am usually in game during off hours. Am I missing something?

Too many hunters and too many DPS classes. Or maybe ranged DPS is not good for the particular instance.

Keep trying. Or, roll a guard to tank or a minstrel to heal and you'll nearly always get into a group.

There are many hunters, and even while i am hunter myself i don't like taking other hunters when i'm on an alt. There are many noob hunters out there with bad gear, common damage on the bow etc. And noob hunters always tend to roll on caster/melee jewels that don't have agility, but a lot of morale or power for example. Or pull stuff that doesn't have to be pulled.

If you have great gear etc. i don't think many will decline you for a fellowship, but it's hard for the noob hunter.

Assuming you are not looking to join a L75 raid or end game 3-man/6-man instance, then it is probably one of two reasons:

1.) The group has a hunter and is looking for other classes (whether they said so or not).
2.) The group contains a hunter or burglar (agility class) that is hoping to see a certain piece of loot drop and does not want someone else in group that would compete for it.

Assuming your LOTRO fourm page is current, if you are looking to join a raid or end-game instance, it is likely because you are not sporting end-game gear. A raid group will pretty much expect to see you with all L75 gear, most of which is teal, and that you are wearing at least the four pieces of the Galtrev/Draig armour set that you get with seals/medallions at the Galtrev armour vendor.

This is what Kinships are for...find a good one.

On a leaner server like Imladris any warm body is accepted into a group. Even when a tank is needed it is common for desperation to set in and anyone to be taken in. Really, there is no reason for people to be so dismissive of other classes, every class can tank in a pinch if the player knows how. Not everyone can be a healer of course, but everyone can deal out the punishment. I have tanked with a hunter before, and a loremaster. Ok, maybe not the burglar though, but he gets into groups easily enough.

It is an issue even more so now that people on my server are not running multiple skraids into the wee hours of morning in hopes of getting their symbols. The right kinship is certainly going to be a huge help with grouping. Frankly, I am loath to join any pugs anymore simply because since ROI I have seen a 90% failure rate on pugs doing anything above isen 3-mans, GB, moria instances, or the turtle. I am rolling a warden at the moment because I believe it will help the kin more. There really are way to many hunters, my kin is 50% hunter I think at the moment. Also a reason is that a hunter with less than lvl 10 virtues and the right ones will be little to any help on hard content as they will die in 2-3 seconds when under fire from a non-common source and much of the isens are heavy on tactical damage.

Welcome to the post-U6 Hunter class

Thanks for the responses everyone. To respond to some of your responses.....

CharlesRollinsWare - I would completely understand if they were upper level quests and such, but in these four cases, they were all in Moria instances. I have done em all before and have never had any issues. I know these are below my level, but I have a couple of deeds I'd like to complete and was just offering my assistance.

I don't know how to update my forum page, I thought it did it automatically. Some of the gear is correct and some is not, but I don't have any end game stuff yet. I solo most of the time and for the most part am just a casual player. I have just scratched the surface at Stangard but am working towards this very thing.

Baldornix - Aye, this is what Kinships are for, but I responding to open invitations in global chat.

Originally Posted by Rexob

I don't know how to update my forum page, I thought it did it automatically.

It does, it just doesn't do it as frequently as it used to. Back in the day your characters would get updated almost as soon as they logged off, but mine haven't updated in almost a week.

Originally Posted by Rexob

I have noticed a trend the past few weeks. I have responded to advertised instances and quests in global chat, only to be told they didn't want any hunters along. This has happened four times now. I don't normally get many chances to do group events and such, I am usually in game during off hours. Am I missing something?

many hunters

Originally Posted by Rexob

...snipped...
CharlesRollinsWare - I would completely understand if they were upper level quests and such, but in these four cases, they were all in Moria instances. I have done em all before and have never had any issues. I know these are below my level, but I have a couple of deeds I'd like to complete and was just offering my assistance.
...snipped

My earlier note was a hurriedly short one. I note that a bunch of the responses above centered about the fact that a good kin can really help out on situations like this and that hunters are often "a dime a dozen". I also note, however, that you are an officer in a kinship and usually folks in a kin, especially officers, are loath to consider other options because the folks in their kin are friends. This can, of course, pose a real "catch 22" in your situations.

I am an officer in a kin (on Windfola) that had a huge role in creating a fairly novel "beast" over here - the Windfola Alliance. The alliance was formed as a lose band of kins that grouped together as a way to expand instance and raid options for the members of each kin that were otherwise too small to support such activity at the kin level. Over time the number of kins involved has grown greatly, and even those kins that customarily had kin-only raid groups often allow members of the alliance to join them and I even run the WA Raiders, which was the outgrowth of the original group from the myriad of ones/twos of various kins that had no other way to raid.

Were you to move you and/or your kin to our server, that option would be available to you. Recognizing that that is pretty unlikely, another option would be to attempt to form such an alliance on your server. If you'd like to examine some of what we are about, check out our website. We set up an alliance channel in game chat, and honestly, while I am very close with the folks in my own kin, I have an equally great number of very close friends in the other kins in the alliance.

When you have so many folks used to working together on a regular basis, you quickly find that you are far less likely to be cast aside on a "gear requirement" which, of course, makes it easier to get deeds done to better your virtues and get the gear you need to meet a "gear requirement".

Anyway, I wish you the best of luck going ahead and hope your LOTRO experience only gets better!

Luinmiriel-Magellin
Elven Huntress of Lorien
Honoured Warrior of the White Lady

Originally Posted by Rexob

I have noticed a trend the past few weeks. I have responded to advertised instances and quests in global chat, only to be told they didn't want any hunters along. This has happened four times now.

You may have just noticed it, but it's not new. Hunters have had trouble finding a spot in pugs since at least 4 1/2 years ago and likely longer, but that's before my time. Call it the hunter's curse. Part of this is that many of the things that make a hunter fun to play, make them an absolute headache to group with. In other words, a hunter, well-played, does his/her job well and nobody notices other than things die real quick. A hunter played poorly, and EVERYBODY knows it. So we get a bad rep. Some justified, some not IMO. And yeah, there are an awful lot of hunters. Most groups DO already have at least one.

You said you play at off-hours, which may be compounding your problem. But make judicious use of your own friends list. When you do group with good people, add them, and include a note as to why you did. If they do the same pretty soon you'll be turning down fellowship offers, rather than seeking them out in GLFF. Not sure what your time is like, but having in your stable, a healer or tank to offer is a big plus. I know on my server "4/6 Foundry T2, need heals and a tank!" is common enough. This gets you a broader inclusion with people. Later on, you can ask if you can bring hunter.

Also, you could start leading. May not be your thing, but you won't say no to you, right?

Here's my take,
It has been established in this thread that the stigma associated with hunters is not necessarily the class itself, but merely individuals who do not look like they have invested the time into their toons (not grinding virtues, LI's etc) as well as those who appear to have no clue about what their class even needs to be effective (items with stats not appropriate for the class, poor LI legs etc). I would say this is true for any class, I for one would never consider inviting any class if it didn't look like they knew what they were doing and might increase the odds of catastrophic failure. Unfortunately, with the hunter being the most populous class it is inevitable that it would have the highest amount of said individuals who just dont have a clue, being one of the easiest classes to simply pick up, but just as hard as any other class to truly master (except warden) also contributes to this sad state of affairs. What can be done? For one, run stuff with people you know, even if you're not confident enough to go after t2 and such, you can still be working on symbols and medallions to get the draigoch set and a decent LI from the skirmish camp. Also, invest in your crafting, crafted jewelry is a big step up from quest rewards is relatively easy to obtain (or buy) and will make you look better to any potential leader, and once you start getting in the runs that can actually give you good jewelry , you should have no problem. Also, I don't see any reason why anyone would turn a hunter down from a skirm raid, and at least on Landroval, they're being run pretty much all day, and those are another quick and easy way to separate yourself from the rabble. Anyway, that's my two cents.

Are the hunters still a populous class though?

It seems that "everyone" have shelved their hunters.
In my kin there are only three active hunters, and we had to go outside our kin to get a hunter for a raid for the 1-3 places they are need for the specific tactic.

Hunters used to be the by far most popular class to play, but now a days we seem to be drowning in champions.

To the OP, I am having trouble getting groups as well. Especially 3-mans are tough to get groups for, as so few combinations actually work with a hunter.

The hunters are a one trick pony, and not a very good one at that.
When dps is all a hunter know, and is not even top three, it is just sad.

I love my hunter, he is my main, but it is dreadful to being told that I have been passed for a Minstrel in WS, as they apparently do more / just as much dps and they got heals.

I have noticed this a lot on my own server. Just because you play a class (which may have a positive or negative rep) doesn't automatically mean that you are good or bad. Its up to the individual.

Without anything being done for the hunters though, I do think that everyone (besides the Creeps, ofc!) should have noticed by now that we as a class do have our own issues. They need to be resolved.

I'm not holding my breath though. We've been getting nerfed since Shadows of Angmar came out. Any update that may seem like a plus, will also put us at an extreme disadvantage in another. (Remember 'Update' 2 with the Strength stance damage nerf and aggro removal?)

"Hunters of Middle earth! My brothers. I see in your eyes the same fear that would take the heart of me. A day may come when the aggro of all the tanks fails, when healers forsake their friends and champions break all crowd controlls on mezed targets, but it is not this day. An hour of bow-chants and pew pews when the Age of Hunters comes crashing down, but it is not this day! This day we fight! By all that you hold dear on this good midde earth, I bid you stand, Hunters of the West!"


Now that this has been said: Back to the topic.

Stand out of the crowd .. That's probably the best thing you can do right now

Get those four draig armour pieces and try running as many skirmish raids as you can to get some easy teal jewellery. No raid out? Then start one or focus on questing in the great river area. Lots of nice barter items once you've hit kindred. Groups are always in desperate need of someone to stroll along side with them and help burn down trolls, trees and spiders.

Last but not least: Get a lvl 75 second age bow and class weapon and put some relics in them.

The competition is pretty hard at the moment, all I see are champs, champs and even more champs. With bubble and heavy armour they're less likely to give the healer a hard time if they overdid it.

9 out of 10 times on my server I am one of three hunters in a random pick up group. Come to Arkenstone where people don't care as long as things get done?

my main is a hunter, and unless the call is for tank/healer or specific classes needed i have no problems getting in raids or similar. i have an alt RK and the main difference is that the dps spots get filled real fast due to many classes filling that role while the RK can normally wait a bit responding or get wider choice in raids due to the limited amount of healer classes.

that said, many prefer the champ over the hunter due to off tank capabilities and similar dps capabilities, while hunters are often sought for there cc capabilities when more dps than the loremaster can provide is needed.

Hunters in non raid gear are quite squishy though :-)

Arakor

If your name isn't fairly recognizable to the leader, chances are he won't accept you unless its a complete pug, not just a kin run looking to fill those extra slots. The point about other Agil classes already taking spots up is also valid.
Overall, hunter numbers ARE going down, especially so in PvP. I actually like this personally because this ###### time of U6 is kinda weeding out all the hunters who have been kinda floating along by help of others, not really understanding or playing their class to the most potential. I may sound arrogant, but I'm gonna say it anyways: I'll enjoy it when most of the might gear wearing, non-LI melee wearing, RoA spamming, power draining, don't-know-how-to-kite hunters are gone or retired from my server. Might be a breath of fresh air for the regular pug leaders, and a chance for all the people who know their class but can't get a spot bc 5 other hunters are already in the raid to actually join a raid, get some gear, and enjoy it further.
^ This all being from the opinion of a regular raider, I'll understand if people disagree with me. But if you like the hunter, stick around. Find a regular kin if you want gear. Wait til the dark ages are over, and maybe people won't be so negative towards hunters just because of the huntards when they're all gone!

Great info, thanks everyone. I must admit that I probably fall into some of the examples that have been listed here. I have learned quite a bit and know there is much more yet to learn. Most of the terms you all are using and I read here in other threads, I simply don't know what they mean. I can get the general idea of what you are talking about by how you are using terms. This is the first on-line game I have played in years, since my Asheron's Call days in fact and so much of the terminology has changed.

When I first posted this thread I didn't think how my toon was set up made any difference, considering the level of the instances that I was responding to. I was most likely wrong after reading the comments here. Because if I don't have end-game gear, then the assumption could be made that I don't know how to play my toon. Like I said earlier, I play off hours a lot (living in the US and playing on a Euro server) so I have had to learn to solo things that would be better off done with a group.

Am I master at playing this class? Not hardly, but I know I can play the hunter well enough to be an asset to a group. I don't too many opportunities though and was shocked when the response came back "No hunters please".

Just as it is in RL, so, too, is it in-game: some folks need a class or group they can look down upon. It is human behavior and for those who practice this part of it are usually doing so as a poor attempt to prop themselves up (in their mind's eye at least). So it is I believe with the hunter class here in LOTRO (watch out champs from the looks of some posts here you may be next.) The use of the word 'huntards' suggests to me that I am correct, IMHO. I dare say the folks who use that word in-game, use the 'other' version in RL. I wouldn't want to associate with those kind of folks in RL why would I want to do so in-game? Review the post(s) from the person(s) who use that word and convince me I'm wrong here.

Hunters are not the only toons who do not have endgame gear, or better than 3rd Age LIs, or maxed out traits, etc...so that reasoning is lame at best.

Face it, most whom I've seen run large groups do not know how to utilize a hunter. Too often they deny a hunter the use of the very skills that make up his/her class. They pull hunter's in to shield walls or huddles where they are most vulnerable and least effective. I won't participate in groups when this happens. I will use my dev-given skills as I know they will benefit the group or you can boot me. No worries there though, only groups I run these days are ones where I lead, and my role is easy: I tell folks you know your class so play it!

Not giving up my hunter anytime soon. By virtue of the fact that I am playing this game, and will continue to play this game, suggests that I will eventually get the better gear I need and the better traits I need, and all at my leisure.

I cant speak about your setup as I havent seen it, but whenever I'm looking for hunters I rather look at if they have made mistakes in their build rather than not having top of the line gear.
Primary examples of this is class traits, e.g. I cant stand if traits like Deadly Precision and Swift Recovery are ignored in a 5b build especially if the hunter took the time to get a Faron set.
Some hunters insist on building with insane amounts of will and/or might, which is a sure bet for not getting to join a run of mine. As much as might supplies a bit of survivability and will helps power issues, it is often a sign that the player cant be bothered to e.g. use potions and sacrifices DPS for convenience.

As much as gear isnt everything, picking wrong traits/gear is often a good sign that the player does not understand the class they're playing.

Personally, I would find someone to run a skirm raid or two with, so your name becomes known to those who regularly pug.
I will say this though, a LOT of players have hunter alts, and if you are missing key traits we WILL notice it (My main is a hunter... but I do have a 75 guard that is growing annoyed with might hunters, cc hunters, and dumb hunters.... and that's just on two foundry runs)

Originally Posted by Noridan

Face it, most whom I've seen run large groups do not know how to utilize a hunter. Too often they deny a hunter the use of the very skills that make up his/her class.

Curious to know under what circumstances you're being asked to group up for no good reason. Are you sure that there isn't one? I've never seen hunters asked to do so without one. Is it a reason that the particular hunter asked doesn't necessarily understand? Sure, I'll buy that.

Originally Posted by Noridan

I will use my dev-given skills as I know they will benefit the group or you can boot me.

Don't take this the wrong way, but if you do want to group with others, I suspect this attitude may cause problems for you. If I read your forum start date correctly, you're still relatively new at this. If a leader of a fellowship, or raid asks you to do something, do it cheerfully and without argument. Even if you think it might be the wrong thing. This is how real-life works in most cases. Most successful businesses don't function well with employees who insist on doing things exactly the way they want to do it, or through a strictly democratic process.

The leader may have a strategy that they know works well, and doesn't want to spend all day explaining why. Or they could be an idiot. They have the star beside their name. Make note of it if not fond of their leadership and don't join up into their groups again.

A good example of this is with distributed damage on the feet for Draigoch. A hunter that runs in first or pulls aggro, while alone, or worse, and I've seen it, standing next to a healer, can get them both 1-shotted. And I've been aggravated by hunters who refuse to group in such situations.

Leader: Everyone group up. Yes, that means hunters too.
Leader: *Hunter_Name* Get over here. Now.
Hunter: I can hit it from here.
Leader: Yes, I know that. I play a hunter too. There's a reason I'm TELLING, not asking you to move.

Hunter pulls aggro, gets 1-shotted and a combat-rez is wasted.

90% of deaths on Draigoch feet in pugs are hunters, and 90% of those times it's because they aren't grouped up. I know this from healing the fight often, and often enough in pugs. And yeah, I've gotten seperated and 1-shot on my own hunter.

How good are you at judging Whirling Retaliation or Warden Aggro-leach range? You can use your dev-given skills to greater effect if not pulling something from the tank.

Originally Posted by Irenmund

...I suspect this attitude may cause problems for you...

Maybe so. What I said was 'I will use my dev-given skills as I know they will benefit the group'. I never said I don't listen, you assume that. All too often whether in a raid or a business environment success is assured better when people know their job and do it! I hate when 'teamwork' is defined as dragging the slugs along for the ride when they should be fired/booted. And that includes leaders.

Originally Posted by Irenmund

The leader may have a strategy that they know works well, and doesn't want to spend all day explaining why...

This is a huge problem with many raiders. They forget too easily that there was a time when they did not know certain things, and nothing causes more problems in a raid as I see them then when the leader and other experienced raiders DO NOT give a heads up to less experienced folks. It is not enough to say 'do it cheerfully and without argument'. Seriously?

So instead lets all just stand around eating and wasting cooked food and buffs while the leader/seasoned raiders figure out who we are waiting on and where we are going next...

Hunters pulling agro? We're not the only ones and sometimes we have to to save a tank's butt. Beneath Notice comes in handy to turn that aggro away too, btw. I've seen many another class pull aggro, or worse still, attack the wrong mob or an add with a poorly played AOE skill of theirs. You don't see me treating them like they are subhuman!

The point of my original post to this thread was and remains in defense of the shunned hunter. My advice, if any I can give, form your own groups/raids and you'll do fine.

every class can tank in a pinch if the player knows how.

Just want to point out that this is very much, not true. Don't give someone the impression that a hunter, RK or LM can tank in a pinch. Run the grand stair at level with no tank and you'll get hosed. Try running Pits of Isenguard without a tank and you get hosed. Try running Roots of Fangorn without a good tank and you'll get hosed. Even School and Library runs without a tank are a wipe at level.


Sure, as a 75, end game geared hunter I can sort of tank lower level instances when I have a good healer, but no, you are wrong. Not every class can tank in a pinch. (Unless of course you only need to tank for say, 6 seconds and then I'm great as a hunter!)

Originally Posted by Noridan

This is a huge problem with many raiders. They forget too easily that there was a time when they did not know certain things, and nothing causes more problems in a raid as I see them then when the leader and other experienced raiders DO NOT give a heads up to less experienced folks. It is not enough to say 'do it cheerfully and without argument'. Seriously?

There is certainly a time and a place for the more experienced to explain in detail to the less. That time and place might not be right that second with ten other people waiting around. Leader doing something different? Ask him/her about it afterwards. That's all. When you said you were going to use your skills as you wanted or they could boot you, I assumed you meant you'd go against the leader's wishes if you disagreed with what was being asked. If not, sorry. I've seen too many occurrences where people do their own thing, for whatever their own reasons might be where it caused problems.

And as for the people being gear-snobs, I've seen perfectly geared hunters from established raiding kins be a huge problem for tanks/healers, or tanks with all teal gear that didn't seem to have picked up on the whole "make sure the ranged mobs aren't shooting the Minstrel" thing while on their way to 75. So it can be a ####-shoot.

Leading a raid, particularly a pug is hard enough without it necessarily being a "learning/coaching" opportunity. So when someone other than me volunteers to do it I try not to give them any added grief. They want me on a certain toon, or traited a certain way....sure...whatever.

I never have trouble getting into groups because:
1. I have pretty good gear.
2. I run with me, myself, and.... OH YEAH!! the twenty plus people in my kin that are main raiders.
Get in a raiding kin, it helps.

Originally Posted by Irenmund

When you said you were going to use your skills as you wanted or they could boot you, I assumed you meant you'd go against the leader's wishes...

My apologies. I can see how you could arrive at that conclusion. Poor choice of words in the heat of the moment... My meaning was more of a "if I can handle the aggro then let me play my hunter and worry about someone else, 'cause if you wanted a melee class in your group you should have said 'no hunters' when you were recruiting" sort of thing.

I'm just very passionate about my hunter and the class as a whole. It is unfairly treated. All classes have their shared idiots who run them, not just hunters. Like I said I've seen tanks go in with bad AoE attacks, healers who are not paying attention, that sort of thing.

As for 3 mans, they really need to be called 2 mans and a healer, 'cause I see too many of those fail otherwise. Pits is a great example of this. I hate to admit this, but any 3 man that includes a hunter, but no healer is on a path to fail. And this is not the fault of the hunter! It is poor mechanics of the game. I will add this though: I have NEVER seen a hunter rage quit anything. Not in raids and not in The Moors. NEVER. When raids begin to fail and lose their numbers it is always the hunters who remain to the end hoping the leader can find others to fill in the empty spots.

So, again, if hunters want to group and raid regularly start one yourself. Develop a group you can run with regularly. You'll do fine.

Thanks again everyone for all your responses. When I started this thread I had the mindset that it was the class that was being shunned, not necessarily my toon. I was not looking to specifically join a raid or an instance at the times I mentioned above, I was just watching global chat. The last "no hunters please" was the one that baffled me the most and what prompted me to post this. They had been advertising for this instance for a good 10 minutes, needing two more people. It was GS I believe and well below my level, I was just willing to give them a hand as it seemed they were having trouble filling out their ranks.

His response of "No Hunters Please" came very quickly and thinking back on it, I don't know that he had enough to time to inspect me before responding. Maybe he did, I don't know. But after reading most of the posts here, I have come to the conclusion that may have had nothing to do with me or how I am set up. Rather, it could have been their own experiences with the class or the players that are playing the class. That experience could have been so bad as to tarnish their view of the class permanently.

I have never been in an instance or quest and had someone be unhappy with something I have done. At least if they were, they never said anything to me about it. I know I have messed up on a few occasions and promptly apologized for it. I dont recall a time when I have not been told "Well done" at the end.

I wish my profile on here would update or at least fill in the missing pieces, I really would like some advice on how my toon is set-up. I would like to get end game gear, but frankly don't know where to find it. I will be kindred with Stangard the next time I am in game and will start working Limelight. I have never done any of the Isengard instances, I have had trouble finding people to do the tier 1's I guess.

My virtues are all level 12 or 13:
Valour
Zeal
Justice
Loyalty
Determination

Originally Posted by Murky_Majare

I love my hunter, he is my main, but it is dreadful to being told that I have been passed for a Minstrel in WS, as they apparently do more / just as much dps and they got heals.

I try to imagine how bad my hunter has to be to make that happen. I guess its impossible. My personal regret for your hunter. You should not artificially lengthen the life span of this poor toon, just delete it.

To the TO:

Many reasons are thinkable:

-hunters are along with champions still the most played class in middle earth. While you typed the answer, half a dozen other hunters already sent their "+" in the "/w-chat". The "RoF 3/6 lfm, 1 dd, captain and tank" announcement may have been already outdated.
-the group was for a specific instance and the already invited hunter or burglar didn't want to share the loot (happens often for the pony skirmish for example)
-they had already a hunter or even more in the group.
-your equip status was too low (LotRO forgives much regarding equip, but not everything).

When was the last time anyone here was in a group that couldn't find a hunter?

'Nuff said.

Originally Posted by Rexob

"no hunters please" ... It was GS

A GS run that wouldn't take a 75 hunter? Sounds like they wanted to make it slower. There's no mechanic in there that would preclude a hunter. The only other thing I can think of is that they had an on-level tank or a weak tank and didn't want to deal with you taking aggro.

Originally Posted by Majic

When was the last time anyone here was in a group that couldn't find a hunter?

'Nuff said.

My kin was recently recruiting end-game hunters, but then again, alot of ours left or have been shelved since we PvP alot and hunter just gets wrecked in PvP unless they hug the zerg like derplings. Bottom line, there's alot of mid-grade average hunters, and very few top end ones playing atm. The class isn't exactly beast-mode rage-around like it was say in Moria. The class just has a few issues, and once Turbine addresses them, the ranks of hunters will return.

You can't blame people for wanting easy/top DPS/OP/fun classes. There's a reason why the population of wargs and minstrels recently jumped by about 25-30% in the Moors.

Originally Posted by Odin_of_Freyr

You can't blame people for wanting easy/top DPS/OP/fun classes. There's a reason why the population of wargs and minstrels recently jumped by about 25-30% in the Moors.

You forgot champions :-)

Originally Posted by Rexob

Thanks again everyone for all your responses. When I started this thread I had the mindset that it was the class that was being shunned, not necessarily my toon. I was not looking to specifically join a raid or an instance at the times I mentioned above, I was just watching global chat. The last "no hunters please" was the one that baffled me the most and what prompted me to post this. They had been advertising for this instance for a good 10 minutes, needing two more people. It was GS I believe and well below my level, I was just willing to give them a hand as it seemed they were having trouble filling out their ranks.

His response of "No Hunters Please" came very quickly and thinking back on it, I don't know that he had enough to time to inspect me before responding. Maybe he did, I don't know. But after reading most of the posts here, I have come to the conclusion that may have had nothing to do with me or how I am set up. Rather, it could have been their own experiences with the class or the players that are playing the class. That experience could have been so bad as to tarnish their view of the class permanently.

I have never been in an instance or quest and had someone be unhappy with something I have done. At least if they were, they never said anything to me about it. I know I have messed up on a few occasions and promptly apologized for it. I dont recall a time when I have not been told "Well done" at the end.

I wish my profile on here would update or at least fill in the missing pieces, I really would like some advice on how my toon is set-up. I would like to get end game gear, but frankly don't know where to find it. I will be kindred with Stangard the next time I am in game and will start working Limelight. I have never done any of the Isengard instances, I have had trouble finding people to do the tier 1's I guess.

My virtues are all level 12 or 13:
Valour
Zeal
Justice
Loyalty
Determination

I wouldn't be so quick to say it was just a few bad hunters. Really if I went by experience I would say that 98% of the LotRO players, especially the in-demand classes (tank, healer, cappy, LM), are absolute idiots regardless of "perfect" gear, traits, or big-name "raiding kin." The problem with any sort of personal experience is that it invariably is tainted by biases held before the observations were made and it can only be applied to situations that closely mimic the observations unless you gather sufficient data. It's a bit like one of the "rules of thumb" doctors are taught - it's okay to use past experiences as a guide but never let them replace a differential diagnosis with proper tests to confirm it. In their case it's because some diseases show very similar (if not identical) symptoms until too late. Here it's because while one example of a class might be a drooling idiot, the limited potential combinations (much less the "working" ones) of traits, gear, and virtues means that there really is NO way to tell if someone is competent is not simply by looking at their character.

Frankly I think a lot of "hunter hate" is the result of people parroting what someone else says to fit in, then repeating it so often they come to actually believe it. Combined with all the social pressures to conform to the "norm" here, the utter lack of consequences for someone running their mouth, and they have no incentive to reexamine their opinion of the class. Really, if you look at all the "examples" these people give of "bad hunters" one could just as easily replace the word "hunter" with "champion", "minstrel", "guardian", or any other class with the same results. And that is without the difference between hunter mains and hunter alts- nearly all the stupid hunters I've met are alts. Too many people think the hunter is an "easy" class so they twink one out and power-level right to the level cap with MAYBE one or two groups (assuming they don't get their kin and/ or friends to carry the character through the instance) in between. Then when they screw up because they don't realize that some critical things do change between level 20 GB and ToO T2, the class gets blamed.

My solution is just to slap them onto the ignore list, put their kins onto my blacklist unless they prove that the loud-mouth is the exception, and keep on grouping. One thing with games like this is that eventually the classes who are maligned for being that class eventually have a point where suddenly they're in demand again after their numbers have hit rock bottom. Some of the best fun I in EQ was telling the groups who had called my ranger a "gimp" because he wasn't a flavor-of-the-month rogue or bard that I had better things to do than track and pull for useless classes when Planes of Power made outdoor grouping the in-thing again. Hunters time will come again. It may not be until Mordor but when it does I'm going to enjoy every minute of telling the hunter-haters spamming "5/6 New instance - please we need a hunter!", "sorry, I don't group with useless classes and useless people."

Well he is saying specifically that he was told that they didn't want any hunters along. This tells me that they didn't want ANY hunter, so I don't know if that was worded wrong or exagerated - it's my guess that they most likely already have a hunter and just weren't specific or honest. But yeah, the other responses make some good points as to why it's hard to get in groups. There are a lot of hunters... there are more hunters who aren't considered as very good, or maybe people who bother to inspect the individual they're about to recruit into a group may have looked over their gear and virtues and seen that maybe this person's toon isn't really prepared - depending on the instance. This doesn't apply to you personally, but just an idea. People can be picky, and pugging strangers is often risky. It's not like you know the individual and it's a big risk to take someone along who may or may not follow direction well, could go AFK right before a fight, or do something else to wipe the group and cause frustration.

My suggestion is, if you aren't in one already join an active kin, get to know people and get your runs completed Goodluck! If you can, it will save you a lot of frustration... after all, the pugs you're trying to join might make you want to pull your hair out just as well. It's happened to me, which is why I try to avoid them.

Maybe you're just a hunter looking for love in all the wrong places

Tbh I wouldnt take a 75 anything I was on-level doing GS, just to keep a tiny little bit of challenge. It is quite boring going to an instance (often the first or second instance you'll be doing in a fellowship since GB/GA) and not really be able to learn how your class is to be used in a fellow when some 75'ers are completely blasting through the mobs.

When it comes to on-level instances I'm growing sick of hunters as well. I've been playing my captain lately, and as much as he is awesomely geared it is annoying that I find myself outDPSing the hunters in my fellowship.
On the last boss in Foundry T2 there are 3 bosses with 220k morale each, thus 660k total. We had 1 grd, 1 mincer, 1 lm, 2 hunters and me on cappie.
When the fight was over I had done 275k worth of damage out of 660k but only with ~650 DPS. The tank and lore-master must have done some damage as well which leaves ~330-360k worth of damage to the 2 hunters.
One of the hunters even had a first ager.
Even if every single purple eyes in there fell on the hunters(which they didnt, I had 2 myself), I really dont consider that to be an excuse for so pathetically low DPS.

Originally Posted by Elrantiri

Tbh I wouldnt take a 75 anything I was on-level doing GS, just to keep a tiny little bit of challenge. It is quite boring going to an instance (often the first or second instance you'll be doing in a fellowship since GB/GA) and not really be able to learn how your class is to be used in a fellow when some 75'ers are completely blasting through the mobs.

When it comes to on-level instances I'm growing sick of hunters as well. I've been playing my captain lately, and as much as he is awesomely geared it is annoying that I find myself outDPSing the hunters in my fellowship.
On the last boss in Foundry T2 there are 3 bosses with 220k morale each, thus 660k total. We had 1 grd, 1 mincer, 1 lm, 2 hunters and me on cappie.
When the fight was over I had done 275k worth of damage out of 660k but only with ~650 DPS. The tank and lore-master must have done some damage as well which leaves ~330-360k worth of damage to the 2 hunters.
One of the hunters even had a first ager.
Even if every single purple eyes in there fell on the hunters(which they didnt, I had 2 myself), I really dont consider that to be an excuse for so pathetically low DPS.

That is a sorry state of affairs. Would be interested in knowing, as you are an experienced hunter, what you parse there. The problem I find in new situations, with pugs especially is that I don't know how far I can push things. And given how easy it is for a hunter to pull (and how conspicious it is compared to a melee class) I tend to play safe and adopt a very conservative approach to self nerf dps to control aggro which I try to judge from the encounters leading into the final.

If things are going fine then I'll just try and keep up a steady contribution making a lot of use of endurance QS etc. I even have a spare set of lower power third age weapons specifically designed for CC and anti aggro I might pull out if the tank has had aggro problems.

I can well believe that compared to the classes that can stand in melee and go all out my parses might look low. Which is why we need some better aggro management tools.

One of the things that make me think people have no idea what dps we are really capable of is the 'holy ####, that was a quick run' reactions I get in random duo skirmish instances (which I guess we all routinely solo on t2 or 3 anyway) when whatever class I'm with just trails along in my wake as I blast through everything without barely breaking stride.