Thread: 43 Burg looking for direction

I have been reading up on the trait groupings, and so on, but the Burg offers so many options I wonder if I am missing out on some key elements.

my current 43 Burg:
http://my.lotro.com/home/character/6...4687610777067/

So far using whatever seems best, focusing on Ag but now watching other stats to be sure I don't run out of Morale too quickly or need Power too often.

Primarily in the MM trait group:

I really enjoy stun locks and such making the mob stand there and "take it" while I stab madly away.
Virtues:
Empathy 2
Charity 3
Justice 4
Probably should spend more time on these

Race:
Hobbit Stature
Stoop for a Stone
Guile and Conviction bonus

Class:
Perplexing Riddle
Appraising Eye
Trickster
Opportunist
Side-Step

Legendary:
Exposed Throat

I currently use a sequence in Mischief like:
Reveal Weakness (10% tier)
Enrage to draw them
Startling Twist (remove Enrage)
Counter Defense
Aim
Surprise Strike (Aim to Crit)
Burg Ad
DE strike
Exposed Throat

If it's still alive I will Riddle
probably then on to Well Place Strike
Startling Twist again (remove counter Defense)
Counter Defense again.

I will recycle Counter Defense and Dust using Glee or ST as needed.

I have no doubt this isn't optimal but so far I use few Pots and if a mob gets past the stuns I can still use Touch and Go to protect myself or HIPS to escape.

input?

Changes possible=
Virtues available:
Innocence 2
Mercy 2
Race available:
Hobbit Club Damage bonus
Hobbit Stealth
Hobbit Silence
Class avaiable:
QK-Cunning Wound, Focused Eye, Ambi
MM-Disabling Attack, Blind Fury
Gambler-Cruel Odds, Leaf Walker, Swift and Subtle

Originally Posted by Dgephri

Race:
Hobbit Stature
Stoop for a Stone
Guile and Conviction bonus

Stoop for a Stone is only good for pulling mobs. Once you have Enrage, you don't really need it any more. Hobbit Stature is useless now that might has no effect on your fighting skills. I recommend Hobbit-stealth (which works very similar to HiPS when HiPS is on cool-down) and the Club Bonus.

Class:
Perplexing Riddle
Appraising Eye
Trickster
Opportunist
Side-Step

A nice defensive build. In my mind, Trickster and Opportunist are a must when soloing. Trickster give you the fast 3-mob trick, while Opportunist lets you fight ranged mobs wherever you want to. If you want a bit more offensive oomph, drop Side-step and add Focused Eye to get more crits from Aim. Then when you get your next available class trait, take another QK for the big Skills Crit Multiplier that you get with 2 QK traits.

Some folks will tell you to go as many QK as you can, but if you enjoy the MM play-style, stick with it.

I currently use a sequence in Mischief like:
Reveal Weakness (10% tier)
Enrage to draw them
Startling Twist (remove Enrage)
Counter Defense
Aim
Surprise Strike (Aim to Crit)
Burg Ad
DE strike
Exposed Throat

If you're going against a solo mob that won't pull other mobs, use the QK stance and Stealth+Diversion+Aim+SS for the big first hit. It will take about 1/3 of the damage from most at-level mobs. Save the Mischief stance for multi-mob groups.

As mentioned in a recent thread, tricks, trick releases, Burglar's Advantage and DES are all "Fast" skills. They reduce the time it takes to recover from the previous slower skill. So, rather than using them in all in a row, try to wrap them around other slower skills. My exception to the rule is when I'm stunning and running behind, but experiment a bit and do what works for you.

Single Mob:

• QK Stance
• Stealth + Diversion + Aim + SS (big hit)
• Disable + Twist + Counter Defense (stun, ending in improved attacks)
• Run through the mob, turn around and attack him from behind.
• Burg Advantage + Cunning Attack + DES + Exposed Throat
• (Mob usually not stunned any more at this point) = Leave CD on him if he's weak. Disable again if he hits hard. TnG if he hits REALLY hard.
• Finish him.

3 mobs:

Before you start identify a mob to mez, a mob to attack first and a mob to ignore while you're killing the attack-first mob. The mob to attack first should generally be the one with the lowest morale. The mob to mez should generally be the mob with ranged attacks or special tactical attacks (like a summoner).

• Mischief Stance
• Target Mob to Attack and place Reveal Weakness on him.
• Target Mob to Mez and Riddle him. The other two wake up.
• (While mobs are running towards you) Target mob to Ignore and Disable him. TnG if anything hits hard.
• Target mob to Attack and Enrage + Twist + CD. Then run through him and turn around. Beat until dead.
• Use your cool-down on Riddle as a timer. When it gets close to done, re-target the mezzed mob and re-apply riddle.
• Whenever the first mob is dead, target the second mob (the one you were ignoring). RW + Enrage + Clever Retort (you may as well use it sometime) + CD. Beat until dead.
• If necessary, re-riddle the mezzed mob. RW + Well Placed Strike + CD (or Disable if he hits hard) and beat him down.
• Through-out = use Glee kind of early (around 2/3 morale) to keep morale as high as possible. Don't wait until you're at low health, because you may be able to get it in twice.

Hope this helps!

MM is not really an ideal solo stance. It's supposed to be the raiding CC stance. I don't run gambler but from what I've seen, you should be able to do a lot more DPS with gambler while retaining most of your CC abilities (and getting some new ones). If you really like doing CC then the quiet knife stance isn't a good choice either. It's the straight up DPS stance with a little bit of CC thrown in. You may not have the traits and skills you need to be an effective gambler at level 43, but you should be able to start experimenting with the ones you have and be effective in that stance by the time you get to Moria.

thanks for the great tips and specific help!

I am going to solo-practice the QK stuff to help progress my class Traits and alter my habits away from so much CC.

Tried out Tanglefoot from Exposed Throat and then tested Flashing Blades. I found FB better than ET for solo since I don't need the FM in solo play.

Stealth>Aim>Diversion>SS>CD>Cr it worked pretty well on even level mob so I need to practice cleaning up my button routine.

really enjoying the new set up in Gambler mode.

Sometimes the 1-6 chance affects the outcomes, but overall impressive change in effectivenes.

Ended up East of Northpass hitting mob onesey-twosey at 4 over my current level really easily. 5 over just made hitting with anything a chore, but surviveable.

same concern. I'm a level 41 burglar, I feel like I understand some things but most of the time I feel like maybe I'm just mashing buttons...and i dont want to be that player. I've run 4 out of quiet knife to this point but have since slotted perplexing riddle and the two blue traits that are relevant to subtle stab and burglars advantage/double edge strike.

From this I've been using a rotation (on a solo target) of reveal weakness, addle, trick:disable, aim, cunning attack, subtle stab, burglars advantage/double edge strike then startling twist if they're still alive so I can stun and throw in another melee attack. I dont really die that often so I've got to be doing something right but perhaps feel like my targets should be dying alot faster?

I'd like to turn more towards a gambler/quiet knife set up but does that or would that even work? like say I only traited 2 red and 6 blue, do I still get the critical positional multiplier from quieft knife stance or do I run out of gambler stance? I'm sorry if I spewed all of this out but as you can clearly see I really need some concrete advice and a "sure fire" rotation that will help maximize my skills. please, any response will be welcomed.

Originally Posted by MaxSydney

Stoop for a Stone is only good for pulling mobs. Once you have Enrage, you don't really need it any more. Hobbit Stature is useless now that might has no effect on your fighting skills. I recommend Hobbit-stealth (which works very similar to HiPS when HiPS is on cool-down) and the Club Bonus.



A nice defensive build. In my mind, Trickster and Opportunist are a must when soloing. Trickster give you the fast 3-mob trick, while Opportunist lets you fight ranged mobs wherever you want to. If you want a bit more offensive oomph, drop Side-step and add Focused Eye to get more crits from Aim. Then when you get your next available class trait, take another QK for the big Skills Crit Multiplier that you get with 2 QK traits.

Some folks will tell you to go as many QK as you can, but if you enjoy the MM play-style, stick with it.



If you're going against a solo mob that won't pull other mobs, use the QK stance and Stealth+Diversion+Aim+SS for the big first hit. It will take about 1/3 of the damage from most at-level mobs. Save the Mischief stance for multi-mob groups.

As mentioned in a recent thread, tricks, trick releases, Burglar's Advantage and DES are all "Fast" skills. They reduce the time it takes to recover from the previous slower skill. So, rather than using them in all in a row, try to wrap them around other slower skills. My exception to the rule is when I'm stunning and running behind, but experiment a bit and do what works for you.

Single Mob:

• QK Stance
• Stealth + Diversion + Aim + SS (big hit)
• Disable + Twist + Counter Defense (stun, ending in improved attacks)
• Run through the mob, turn around and attack him from behind.
• Burg Advantage + Cunning Attack + DES + Exposed Throat
• (Mob usually not stunned any more at this point) = Leave CD on him if he's weak. Disable again if he hits hard. TnG if he hits REALLY hard.
• Finish him.

3 mobs:

Before you start identify a mob to mez, a mob to attack first and a mob to ignore while you're killing the attack-first mob. The mob to attack first should generally be the one with the lowest morale. The mob to mez should generally be the mob with ranged attacks or special tactical attacks (like a summoner).

• Mischief Stance
• Target Mob to Attack and place Reveal Weakness on him.
• Target Mob to Mez and Riddle him. The other two wake up.
• (While mobs are running towards you) Target mob to Ignore and Disable him. TnG if anything hits hard.
• Target mob to Attack and Enrage + Twist + CD. Then run through him and turn around. Beat until dead.
• Use your cool-down on Riddle as a timer. When it gets close to done, re-target the mezzed mob and re-apply riddle.
• Whenever the first mob is dead, target the second mob (the one you were ignoring). RW + Enrage + Clever Retort (you may as well use it sometime) + CD. Beat until dead.
• If necessary, re-riddle the mezzed mob. RW + Well Placed Strike + CD (or Disable if he hits hard) and beat him down.
• Through-out = use Glee kind of early (around 2/3 morale) to keep morale as high as possible. Don't wait until you're at low health, because you may be able to get it in twice.

Hope this helps!

great info! This sure helps me!! +rep

I am hitting 43 today hopefully, which legacies are good for a PvE burglar and how many switch items do you need for different roles? as a champ I rock 1 set of LIs for tanking, 1 set for DPS and 1 set for moors - will it be the same for a burglar?

I switched first from MM line to TG line (enjoyed that quite a bit) and then over to QK line to finish those Trait progressions.

Most of the time QK is faster kills, but extended Skirm fights or solo Skirms are a bit easier with TG or MM to control the crowd a bit better.

Once I unlock Clever Retort from Mischief mode I will probably just stick with QK most of the time.

I think everybody plays a little different, but all the tips here got me pointed towards a more streamlined version of my original play style and Stealth movement is faster, easier to Stealth>Aim>Crit Cycle. Sometimes i put a trick in for healing or stunning, but the Crit Cycle is pretty constant with Addles in between Slow skills and Fast skills.

Originally Posted by Dgephri

I switched first from MM line to TG line (enjoyed that quite a bit) and then over to QK line to finish those Trait progressions.

Most of the time QK is faster kills, but extended Skirm fights or solo Skirms are a bit easier with TG or MM to control the crowd a bit better.

Once I unlock Clever Retort from Mischief mode I will probably just stick with QK most of the time.

I think everybody plays a little different, but all the tips here got me pointed towards a more streamlined version of my original play style and Stealth movement is faster, easier to Stealth>Aim>Crit Cycle. Sometimes i put a trick in for healing or stunning, but the Crit Cycle is pretty constant with Addles in between Slow skills and Fast skills.

Indeed, everyone is a little different. And QK is the best dps so long as you are in position. If you go toe to toe with a mob (like a very tough but soloable elite that cannot be stunned, as an example), TG can be as good or higher dps (if you have worked on the build, of course -- and that means legendary items. Pre LI, TG is not so good). But for the most part, you will want to master QK builds with minor variations for handling different group situations, solo play, etc.

Originally Posted by Dgephri

Virtues: Empathy 2, Charity 3, Justice 4
Probably should spend more time on these

Yes - general rule of thumb, your virtues should be your level / 6. So, at level 43, you should have the 5 virtues you use at ~7.

Originally Posted by Dgephri

I currently use a sequence in Mischief like:
Reveal Weakness (10% tier)
Enrage to draw them
Startling Twist (remove Enrage)
Counter Defense
Aim
Surprise Strike (Aim to Crit)
Burg Ad
DE strike
Exposed Throat

That looks good.

Mischief is an excellent skill tree for just having fun, both solo and in groups.

Eventually you'll want to experiment with the other ones, but they are all good - pick the one you like that works for you. My burg is usually traited 5 QK, and 1 each for the other lines (for Draigoch); or 4 Mischief / 3 QK (for ToO).

I would wait 2 levels, get your first legendary item, and build your toon around what legacies you get. When you get to level 53+ you can begin to seriously build a custom legendary item and match the traits to the items for a build that really works well for you.

A build for a burg is either top dps or some other build that you just prefer to play or tailor to fit a raid/instance/situation. Since you cannot go for a top dps build yet nor a high quality gambler build, you should IMHO continue to do what you are doing: try different setups, go with what seems to be working, and keep mental notes on what does and does not seem to be very good. NOW is the time to try things out and see what you like, and to experiment. Later, you can get a cookie cutter build for either a specific raid, pvp, or general play --- and from there, swap a trait or 2 to customize the cookie cutter build if you need it. But the knowledge of trying things out and messing with it will last you for your whole career, and it cannot be replaced or explained to you in enough detail. The only way to really see what the stuff does and how combinations of traits interact is to try them.

Personally, for solo play, I still prefer gambler. Nothing is quite like a blind, stun + damage gamble of the 3 aggravating orcs between you and that crafting node. Time you harvest the node, the half dead orcs wake up and its game on. But you do not have access to this sort of thing yet: both the gambler and quiet knife builds are sort of weak until level 60 or so, with the capstone legendary traits and full 5+ trait builds.