Thread: What Burg Stat #'s to Aim for ..

Just like it says in the Title.

AGI:
VIT:
FATE:

MORALE:
POWER:

CRIT:
FINESSE:

PHYSICAL MASTERY:
PHYSICAL MIT:
TACT MIT:

EVADE:

OTHER STATS OF IMPORTANCE:
______________________________ ______________________________ _______________________
AVERAGED BURG STATS (SUBJECT TO CHANGE):

Originally Posted by thatabguy

Taken from http://ttahvo.webatu.com/index.php

[ Average / Max ]

Morale: 6796 / 11772
Power: 2577 / 3671
Armour: 4687 / 5651

Might: 176 / 610
Agility: 1607 / 2362
Vitality: 623 / 1319
Fate: 310 / 582
Will: 116 / 250

Critical Hit: 7052 / 11134
Finesse: 4880 / 8174
Block: 0 / 1476 * how is it possible for a Burglar to have Block?
Parry: 4009 / 6134
Evade: 7181 / 11012

Resistance: 2956 / 9317
Critical Defense: 198 / 1072
Physical Mitigation: 3917 / 6773
Tactical Mitigation: 4705 / 10518

THANKS THATABGUY!!!!

______________________________ ______________________________ _________________________
Personally I'm only interested in PVE .. but should you like to mention PVP Stats as well, I'm sure that would be appreciated.

Unfortunately I don't Raid or Skraid regularly (Read "regularly" as I've done 3 .. Small Kin, lack of time, insert other excuses here), but I'd like to try and get as close to the optimum numbers as possible as a solo/small instance Burg.

On a related note, what are the capped numbers for stats like Evade and Crit?

Any help or advice would be much appreciated!

I'll start by posting my current stats:

Originally Posted by Bootstwaddle

AGI: 1421
VIT: 320
FATE: 399

MORALE: 6415
POWER: 2150

CRIT: 6765
FINESSE: 6756

PHYSICAL MASTERY: 18050
PHYSICAL MIT: 2875
TACT MIT: 2885

EVADE: 8240

OTHER STATS OF IMPORTANCE: None worth mentioning (all quite low)

Feel free to comment, berate, scold, etc.,

I would focus on ICPR rather than raw power. I also wouldn't focus so much on fate, since you can pick up crit and ICPR more effectively directly as crit and ICPR.

AGI: 2187 (Ettenmoor-Set)
VIT: 564
FATE: 262

MORALE: 6365
POWER: 2820

CRIT: 10578
FINESSE: 7320

PHYSICAL MASTERY: (not Sure - couln't go online and MyLotro doesn't show...
PHYSICAL MIT: 4000
TACT MIT: 6000

EVADE: 10000

Edit: Evade and Crit Stack at 25%

AGI: 2047
VIT: 645
FATE: 352

MORALE: 7662
POWER: 3204

CRIT: 6792
FINESSE: 6180

PHYSICAL MASTERY: same problem, MyLotro dont show, but it was around 21k, that gives something around 93% I belive.
PHYSICAL MIT: 3175
TACT MIT: 4868

EVADE: 8488

This is PVE setup.

normal dps setup:

AGI: 2358
VIT: 696
FATE: 282

MORALE: 6212
POWER: 2365

CRIT: 10460 (+20% devaste - moors set)
FINESSE: 6288

PHYSICAL MASTERY: 30056
PHYSICAL MIT: 3492
TACT MIT: 5530

EVADE: 9432


tactical mitigation (orthanc t2 giants, lightning and saruman phase 3-4):

AGI: 2228
VIT: 694
FATE: 248

MORALE: 6683
POWER: 2365
CRIT: 10181 (+20% devaste - moors set)
FINESSE: 4224
PHYSICAL MASTERY: 28905
PHYSICAL MIT: 3488
TACT MIT: 7035
EVADE: 8912

For moors i use the tactical mitigation set, just with the helmet from the evade set due to audacity.

EDIT: finally got the orthanc braclet, edited the stats :P

AGI:2041 (Ettenmoor-Set)
VIT:636
FATE:225

MORALE:6000
POWER:2100

CRIT:9000
FINESSE:6100

PHYSICAL MASTERY: Can not log in a.t.m.
PHYSICAL MIT: 3500
TACT MIT:5400

EVADE:8200

I donot have the Limlight Gorge Jewerly. I was very lazy. -.-

With Ettenmoors Dev. Set:
Agi: 2333
Vit: 697
Fate: 260

Morale: 6215
Power: 2341
ICPR: 652

Crit: 9730 (+600 Melee)
Finesse: 6216

Mastery: 29,7k
Phys. Mit: 3444
Tact. Mit: 5009

Evade: 9332

So it looks like the Ettenmoors set is the one to get for normal "out and about business"?

Thanks for posting this OP. I too am curious what to shoot for since I don't really raid anymore. I won't embarrass myself by posting current numbers here, lol.

AGI: 1700
VIT: 658
FATE: 250

MORALE: 6809
POWER: 2106

CRIT: 8013
FINESSE: 5404

PHYSICAL MASTERY: 23k
PHYSICAL MIT: 3993
TACT MIT: 8276

EVADE: 7476

This is my Raid setup.

My first thought was, "for what purpose?" Since my stats are different for different things.

Originally Posted by Bootstwaddle

Personally I'm only interested in PVE .. but should you like to mention PVP Stats as well, I'm sure that would be appreciated.

Unfortunately I don't Raid or Skraid regularly (Read "regularly" as I've done 3 .. Small Kin, lack of time, insert other excuses here), but I'd like to try and get as close to the optimum numbers as possible as a solo/small instance Burg.

As long as you have more agility than others, for that purpose, you are set, as stats matter, but won't make or break solo or small group runs. What's more, if you have a 75 burg armour set, you have enough agility for solo. If you find yourself running out of power, get more +icpr gear or fate. If never critting, some +agil, fate, +crit gear (in that order). If you need to tank three-person content a lot, more +agil, +evade, +mitigations, +vitality and +morale (that order).

On a related note, what are the capped numbers for stats like Evade and Crit?

Here's a great forum thead detailing combat stat changes per RoI (with link to the Developer Diary). Evade/crit caps are now 25% instead of 15%. Yes, Gambler stance can put you at 30% evade if capped. The hard part then is crit defense, as a couple 4-5k crit hits in a row drop a typical burg tank.

PS: For your PvE purposes, questing, no worries, as long as your agility is higher than others, you'll be fine. Three-person instance with a tank-type? Crank up agility/phys mastery. Three-person instance with you tanking? Push your vit/mitigations/morale. Foundry run? High phys mastery, morale over 5k, crank your ICPR for trash. Second boss juice up your morale at expense of agility (don't want to be one-shotted). Final fight you can drop morale and ICPR in favor of more DPS. Roots? Increase your tactical mitigation. Draigoch? Load up your morale and evasion.



"Sometimes survival comes down to not being hit. Actually, most times." -the chicken skill, Bob and Weave

Originally Posted by RJFerret

My first thought was, "for what purpose?" Since my stats are different for different things.

EVERYTHING!! Seriously though, I was just looking for a comparison as to where different Burgs are with their set-ups to give others (and myself) a general guide as to where numbers should be.

I believe most know what they should be traiting for when it comes to certain raid bosses and the like, which you have quickly gone over here:

Originally Posted by RJFerret

Three-person instance with a tank-type? Crank up agility/phys mastery. Three-person instance with you tanking? Push your vit/mitigations/morale. Foundry run? High phys mastery, morale over 5k, crank your ICPR for trash. Second boss juice up your morale at expense of agility (don't want to be one-shotted). Final fight you can drop morale and ICPR in favor of more DPS. Roots? Increase your tactical mitigation. Draigoch? Load up your morale and evasion.

Great advice, thank you.

Originally Posted by RJFerret

What's more, if you have a 75 burg armour set, you have enough agility for solo.

The 6 pieces (excluding cloak) would give around 732 AGI .. so is 1200? 1400? 1600 enough? I'm comfortable at 1400 AGI solo, but soloing in Limlight certainly takes an age or two with it that low. So I'd say that would be on the low end of "enough". Agreed?

Originally Posted by RJFerret

If you find yourself running out of power, get more +icpr gear or fate. If never critting, some +agil, fate, +crit gear (in that order). If you need to tank three-person content a lot, more +agil, +evade, +mitigations, +vitality and +morale (that order)

Very helpful, thank you!

And thank all of you for giving the rest of us something to gun for stat wise!

Originally Posted by Bootstwaddle

The 6 pieces (excluding cloak) would give around 732 AGI .. so is 1200? 1400? 1600 enough? I'm comfortable at 1400 AGI solo, but soloing in Limlight certainly takes an age or two with it that low. So I'd say that would be on the low end of "enough". Agreed?

My rule of thumb is 1400 is a good first goal (maybe 1200 for a first, first goal for a brand new 75, but 1400 is where I start feeling my toon is finally at a decent starting place) for primary stats for any toon. For solo/small fellowship, this will be perfectly adequate, and probably well ahead of people that don't raid much if ever. As you spend more time at cap, and are able to go after more rare pieces and raid drops, you can start making incremental goals upwards.

My burg currently has I believe 1835 agility and something like 25.7k mastery (think thats around +98% dmg in QK stance). Certainly there are burgs with higher stats, as you can already see even in this thread, and while I'll still be shooting for some slight improvements, maybe make a push for 2k agi, I'm pretty happy with where he's at.

A pic of my stats after a Saruman kill, in a raid.

https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/phot...eat=directlink

Originally Posted by Bootstwaddle

EVERYTHING!!

:-) Cool!

.. so is 1200? 1400? 1600 enough? I'm comfortable at 1400 AGI solo, but soloing in Limlight certainly takes an age or two with it that low. So I'd say that would be on the low end of "enough". Agreed?

Actually...I don't personally agree. ;-) I'd say 1400 is more than enough for PvE, in fact technically excessive, as that's well into the area of diminishing returns (1200 is the rule of thumb when diminishing returns starts to become significant), and other areas are possibly weaker pushing higher than that--that is NOT to say more physical mastery isn't good, it's just that getting it other ways may offer more overall gains. (I want to emphasize here that physical mastery does not suffer from diminishing returns.)

Here's an example, I have a ring with a "measly" 32 agility, I can't imagine other burgs would wear it. But it also offers fate, icpr, physical mastery, finesse and morale. I swap other gear, but that ring always stays on.

The hard part is getting physical mastery without investing in too much agility (and you see how many have fallen into that). Since each point in agil gives a whopping ten physical mastery, it's an easy way to get it, and Turbine provides a lot. But perhaps think about it another way? Would the aforementioned ring be better if it had twice the agility instead of the fate/phys mastery? Heck no! It'd lose a bunch of morale/power regen and the crit would be a wash. Well guess what? It already effectively has 70 agility, when you calculate it's physical mastery.

1400 agility is Orthanc raid-worthy. With similarly geared companions and some physical mastery, you'll be able to do Draigoch in 45 minutes, and have no problem in Acid wing or others. It's enough evade to be able to tank an Orthanc T1 MOB, as well as 3-man bosses. It's enough crit your chain will always be available.

If you want more damage for quicker Limlight soloing, I'd seek to boost physical mastery, but since your agility is already effectively "capped", I'd suggest keeping an open mind about gear that will boost your physical mastery as well as something else, rather than just agility gear that will do nothing but boost your physical mastery.

Originally Posted by tomiathon

(maybe 1200 for a first, first goal for a brand new 75, but 1400 is where I start feeling my toon is finally at a decent starting place)

My first reaction was "yeah", however it's interesting thinking about this now, to put my point another way, 1200 agility, 1400 agility, 1600 agility and even 2000 agility all provide practically the same amount of crit/evade/parry/etc.

In my case, when my agility started going above 1200, I felt no difference/change/improvement anymore. I wasn't able to solo anything differently, and I wasn't able to tank anything more than I had previously, group runs remained the same. However increasing my fate was dramatic, I already had been able to solo trolls at end of Fangorn's Edge, but now I didn't need food and power pots to keep DPSing, no interruptions, no more pausing in Foundry between trash--unless another burg was on the run and we needed to wait for their power to recharge ;-). Increasing my vitality was huge, I already was able to cream stuff in Orthanc, and typically had or even gained Draigoch claw threat, but now I wasn't at risk of falling to polarity, or non-distributed attacks hitting only a few of us.



"Sometimes survival comes down to not being hit. Actually, most times." -the chicken skill, Bob and Weave

Originally Posted by RJFerret

I'd say 1400 is more than enough for PvE, in fact technically excessive, as that's well into the area of diminishing returns (1200 is the rule of thumb when diminishing returns starts to become significant), and other areas are possibly weaker pushing higher than that--that is NOT to say more physical mastery isn't good, it's just that getting it other ways may offer more overall gains. (I want to emphasize here that physical mastery does not suffer from diminishing returns.)

Originally Posted by RJFerret

The hard part is getting physical mastery without investing in too much agility (and you see how many have fallen into that). Since each point in agil gives a whopping ten physical mastery, it's an easy way to get it, and Turbine provides a lot. But perhaps think about it another way? Would the aforementioned ring be better if it had twice the agility instead of the fate/phys mastery? Heck no! It'd lose a bunch of morale/power regen and the crit would be a wash. Well guess what? It already effectively has 70 agility, when you calculate it's physical mastery.

Again, outstanding information.
Thank you.
That said, in a general sense what numbers would you recommend?

Originally Posted by Bootstwaddle

That said, in a general sense what numbers would you recommend?

I have a hard time answering that question. You can have the same physical mastery as most in this thread with just 3/4s of their agility. So does it make any difference how much agility you have? (All the other attributes of it were virtually maxed when it passed 1200.)

We do tell kinmates 6,000 morale or more for raids, and as much tactical mitigation as you can get for tactical bosses (Roots, Orthanc). You'll need a few thousand Finesse for Draigoch FMs and Riddling Orthanc trash. Some are happy with half the ICPR of others, relying on their friendly neighborhood lore-masters instead. ;-)

So what would I recommend? It depends. ;-) It's also why I favor understanding what the numbers actually provide, rather than just "keeping up with the Joneses".

PS: I don't pick who clears their poisons in Roots of Fangorn based on how many poison DoTs they have stacked, but based on what their tactical mitigation is--it's obvious by the rate their morale is dropping. Sadly, that meant one burg on a run ended up frequently being the priority at the expense of others, it would have been much easier for everyone if he had less DPS and more tact mit (and ironically, he would have done more damage, as he wouldn't have spent so much time running to roots, but more time hitting).



"Sometimes survival comes down to not being hit. Actually, most times." -the chicken skill, Bob and Weave

Originally Posted by Bootstwaddle

Again, outstanding information.
Thank you.
That said, in a general sense what numbers would you recommend?

As helpful as RJ can be, I'd be a little wary of taking all of their advice to heart.

As an example, RJ is still holding to the ridiculous claim that Agility over 1200 for a Burg is by and far useless. This is nonsense.

Originally Posted by RJFerret

Actually...I don't personally agree. ;-) I'd say 1400 is more than enough for PvE, in fact technically excessive, as that's well into the area of diminishing returns (1200 is the rule of thumb when diminishing returns starts to become significant), and other areas are possibly weaker pushing higher than that--that is NOT to say more physical mastery isn't good, it's just that getting it other ways may offer more overall gains. (I want to emphasize here that physical mastery does not suffer from diminishing returns.)

I don't even know how you can write this paragraph with a straight face. More Physical Mastery is a good thing, we can both agree on that. So how can you say that Agility over 1200 is essentially capped? Every point of Agility gives you 10 Physical Mastery, no matter if you're at 200 Agility, or 2000 Agility.

Agility WILL ALWAYS be better then straight Physical Mastery. In addition to the massive amounts of Physical Mastery Agility provides, it also provides you with crit and avoidances. Yes, there are DR on those stats as you get more and more. But still, why would you prioritize Physical Mastery over Agility? Even though the other stats from Agility are starting to suffer from DR, Physical Mastery is bringing nothing else to the table.

A ring with 70 Agility and ICPR/morale is better then a ring with 35 Agility, 350 Physical Mastery, and ICPR/morale. There's simply no debate on that.

Originally Posted by RJFerret

I have a hard time answering that question. You can have the same physical mastery as most in this thread with just 3/4s of their agility. So does it make any difference how much agility you have? (All the other attributes of it were virtually maxed when it passed 1200.)

I would LOVE to see this build. Show me 28k+ Physical Mastery while staying near your "cap" of 1200 Agility.

Originally Posted by RJFerret

1400 agility is Orthanc raid-worthy. With similarly geared companions and some physical mastery, you'll be able to do Draigoch in 45 minutes, and have no problem in Acid wing or others.

I can't even imagine a Draigoch run taking 45 minutes, that's an eternity for that run. I don't think it even took that long at release with fresh 75s and a full 12. Typically these days we're running it in about 15-20 minutes with an average of 8 people. It could even be quicker, but we have to slow up on DPS to get all the CJs in since you're pretty much limited to 2/cycle now. As far as Orthanc, I have to assume you're talking about tier 1. If so, yes that's acceptable for tier 1 Orthanc. That build would be no where near acceptable for a tier 2 run unless you want your raid to carry a large portion of your weight.


TL;DR OP, take everything RJ (and ifreborn1 for that matter) says with a grain of salt, you'll be better for it in the long run.

Originally Posted by Rothdire

I don't even know how you can write this paragraph with a straight face. More Physical Mastery is a good thing, we can both agree on that. So how can you say that Agility over 1200 is essentially capped? Every point of Agility gives you 10 Physical Mastery, no matter if you're at 200 Agility, or 2000 Agility.

I would LOVE to see this build. Show me 28k+ Physical Mastery while staying near your "cap" of 1200 Agility.

I can't even imagine a Draigoch run taking 45 minutes, that's an eternity for that run.

Exactly what I thought when I read that post. I almost replied but I thought it must have been a joke or something.

My lil burgie normally comes out for raids and instances. I don't PVP much.

This is in default setup, with 3x teal Anduin, 4 Cabeddan and 2 Dinhigil pieces.

Might 76
Agility 2030
Vitality 520
Will 91
Fate 431

Critical Hit 7747
Finesse 7106

Parry 4212
Evade 8120

Resistance 4084
Crit Avoid 520

Physical Mit. 3327
Tactical Mit. 3980

Virtues need a bit of work, and phys mit in particular could be higher. But I find burg to be the worst class for doing slayer deeds on :S

Thanks to everyone for posting their numbers, thoughts and comments.

To Rothdire & Evendale, I understand what you're saying, but it can never hurt to have a "Devil's Advocate" theory to force others into making their own decisions and forming their own opinions.

Over the weekend I played around with different builds (harder and more expensive than I thought due to my lack of top-end gear), but I did notice that by keeping my Physical Mastery and Crit up I could spread around some Agility to other and still maintain a rapid kill pace.
However, I did feel a little more squishy than I had previously (I made some pretty odd choices in new gear and such .. I may have been drunk).
But, this is exactly why I asked, and it's great to read all the different opinions so that I can form my own.

At some point I'll average out all the #'s that have been posted and update the post on Page One with those numbers. Should be interesting to see what those average stats are, but I have a pretty good idea.

Again, thanks all! Keep em coming!

PS. Aedfrith, I hear ya on slayer deeds. Makes the grind even grindier, I'd go so far as to say the grindiest.

First off, I TOTALLY agree with the overall premise of what Rothdire is saying. Always take things with a grain of salt and check them out for veracity please. :-)

Originally Posted by Rothdire

As an example, RJ is still holding to the ridiculous claim that Agility over 1200 for a Burg is by and far useless. This is nonsense.

That is outright the opposite of what I said actually.

I recommended more agility for more damage. However that does NOT make more agility better than straight physical mastery, when well into diminishing returns, it's the same. If you don't understand that, then you won't understand this next part...

I would LOVE to see this build. Show me 28k+ Physical Mastery while staying near your "cap" of 1200 Agility.

Although I have NO idea if your number would be reasonable, my number was 75% of the 2000+ most listed in this thread. I'm suspicious your number would ruin vitality, fate and other attributes if tried. (Which might explain why so many have such low fate perhaps?)

A ring with 70 Agility and ICPR/morale is better then a ring with 35 Agility, 350 Physical Mastery, and ICPR/morale. There's simply no debate on that.

True, but that's a facetious example obviously.

But! The entire question of this thread are stats to aim for, we already know the obvious, agility is good, we are trying to go deeper than that. So here's my question, if your agility is already over 1400 (the OP)... Which do you choose, an item with +60 vitality and +600 physical mastery, or an item with +60 agility, +150 morale and ICPR? How about +70 fate, +600 phys mastery and +150 morale?

Or to put it another way, would you rather have 600 mastery and a couple hundred morale and both physical and tactical mitigation, or the same mastery but lower morale and worse mitigations? How about more crit and ICPR and phys mastery and morale and ICMR too? These are the choices the OP will be making. Personally, I'd want all three options (and I do have them in inventory), so I can adjust to circumstances (heck, I just switched between Saruman phases an hour ago).

TL;DR OP, take everything RJ (and ifreborn1 for that matter)...

That's just being condescending for the sake of offending. Although I don't typically read someone's writings, I do recognize that everyone may offer insightful contributions regardless of their personal views. And I haven't even shared personal views here, just information. However if ignoring and disparaging knowledge is one's modus operandi, that explains why there's a lack of understanding. This isn't a philosophy after all, it's just math.

Originally Posted by Evendale

Exactly what I thought when I read that post. I almost replied but I thought it must have been a joke or something.

Huh, I'm surprised you bought in to that tripe. But then I'm also surprised folks with over 2000 agility have about the same physical mastery of others with 1500 agility. If they had the same ratio, their physical mastery would be around 32,000. *shrugs, perhaps that's why Rothdire seems so upset and over-reacting?



"Sometimes survival comes down to not being hit. Actually, most times." -the chicken skill, Bob and Weave

Originally Posted by RJFerret

But! The entire question of this thread are stats to aim for, we already know the obvious, agility is good, we are trying to go deeper than that. So here's my question, if your agility is already over 1400 (the OP)... Which do you choose, an item with +60 vitality and +600 physical mastery, or an item with +60 agility, +150 morale and ICPR? How about +70 fate, +600 phys mastery and +150 morale?

Or to put it another way, would you rather have 600 mastery and a couple hundred morale and both physical and tactical mitigation, or the same mastery but lower morale and worse mitigations?

This comparison isn't completely fair.
You make it sounds like the Vitality would be the smarter choice, because it gives phys and tac mit. ( I believe 60 vit gives 12 tac mit? Hardly noticable I might add) but you don't point out Agility gives crit and evade/parry to counter that.

The best way to compare items is to bring them all down to their base numbers.
So don't think of that 60 agil, 150 morale, 60 icpr as that, but as
600 phy mas
105 crit
XX evade etc.

That makes it easier to compare items, you can remove the stats they have in common and see what's left, and then decide which of those you want.

Originally Posted by RJFerret

First off, I TOTALLY agree with the overall premise of what Rothdire is saying. Always take things with a grain of salt and check them out for veracity please. :-)




That is outright the opposite of what I said actually.

I recommended more agility for more damage. However that does NOT make more agility better than straight physical mastery, when well into diminishing returns, it's the same. If you don't understand that, then you won't understand this next part...




Although I have NO idea if your number would be reasonable, my number was 75% of the 2000+ most listed in this thread. I'm suspicious your number would ruin vitality, fate and other attributes if tried. (Which might explain why so many have such low fate perhaps?)




True, but that's a facetious example obviously.

But! The entire question of this thread are stats to aim for, we already know the obvious, agility is good, we are trying to go deeper than that. So here's my question, if your agility is already over 1400 (the OP)... Which do you choose, an item with +60 vitality and +600 physical mastery, or an item with +60 agility, +150 morale and ICPR? How about +70 fate, +600 phys mastery and +150 morale?

Or to put it another way, would you rather have 600 mastery and a couple hundred morale and both physical and tactical mitigation, or the same mastery but lower morale and worse mitigations? How about more crit and ICPR and phys mastery and morale and ICMR too? These are the choices the OP will be making. Personally, I'd want all three options (and I do have them in inventory), so I can adjust to circumstances (heck, I just switched between Saruman phases an hour ago).




That's just being condescending for the sake of offending. Although I don't typically read someone's writings, I do recognize that everyone may offer insightful contributions regardless of their personal views. And I haven't even shared personal views here, just information. However if ignoring and disparaging knowledge is one's modus operandi, that explains why there's a lack of understanding. This isn't a philosophy after all, it's just math.




Huh, I'm surprised you bought in to that tripe. But then I'm also surprised folks with over 2000 agility have about the same physical mastery of others with 1500 agility. If they had the same ratio, their physical mastery would be around 32,000. *shrugs, perhaps that's why Rothdire seems so upset and over-reacting?



"Sometimes survival comes down to not being hit. Actually, most times." -the chicken skill, Bob and Weave

There are no diminishing returns for agility in terms of pure damage, and i believe there isn't for crit as well. In terms, of raiding in t2, if you're having 1.4k agility, you're simply not going to dish out enough damage, in terms of both PM and crit. Agility is THAT important to a class like a burglar. I'd say in a t2 OT raid, you need to be parsing unbuffed at least 1.9-2k DPS on a training dummy. That way, you'd easily hit the 2.2-2.3 DPS in a raid with all the buffs. That's the amount of DPS you should be looking at when you raid.

Also being a glass cannon is one thing, being careless in your positioning is another. Know how to use HIPS to take off aggro when you feel like you're building up alot. With proper positioning, you can easily survive ff t2, shadow t2 CM, acid t2 CM, lightning t2 CM with a mere 5-6k unbuffed tact mit, and 6.2k unbuffed morale, while dpsing like a mad man. Don't be afraid to T & G or knives out, it's there to be used.

If you're not gonna raid, then I have no tips for you.

Originally Posted by jakeprecision123

I'd say in a t2 OT raid, you need to be parsing unbuffed at least 1.9-2k DPS on a training dummy. That way, you'd easily hit the 2.2-2.3 DPS in a raid with all the buffs. That's the amount of DPS you should be looking at when you raid.

Also being a glass cannon is one thing, being careless in your positioning is another. Know how to use HIPS to take off aggro when you feel like you're building up alot. With proper positioning, you can easily survive ff t2, shadow t2 CM, acid t2 CM, lightning t2 CM with a mere 5-6k unbuffed tact mit, and 6.2k unbuffed morale, while dpsing like a mad man. Don't be afraid to T & G or knives out, it's there to be used.

If you're not gonna raid, then I have no tips for you.

who thinks that 1200-1500 Agi are enough to go raiding should show me good parses like these:

Training-Dummy - no Food no Buffs no Destiny-Points:


Kalbak - 3 Burgs no Bladebrother:


if you could do this with 1500 Agi I trust you that this Build is good in Raids...

Found this little handy tool in General Discussion.

http://ttahvo.webatu.com/index.php

It's a stats comparator for your character's class and level, and it's pretty much exactly what I was looking for by opening this thread.

Props to Harkhonen for it's creation.

Original Thread here:

http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.p...O-Stat-Checker

Enjoy, I put a lot of effort to make this for you guys.

Taken from http://ttahvo.webatu.com/index.php

[ Average / Max ]

Morale: 6796 / 11772
Power: 2577 / 3671
Armour: 4687 / 5651

Might: 176 / 610
Agility: 1607 / 2362
Vitality: 623 / 1319
Fate: 310 / 582
Will: 116 / 250

Critical Hit: 7052 / 11134
Finesse: 4880 / 8174
Block: 0 / 1476 * how is it possible for a Burglar to have Block?
Parry: 4009 / 6134
Evade: 7181 / 11012

Resistance: 2956 / 9317
Critical Defense: 198 / 1072
Physical Mitigation: 3917 / 6773
Tactical Mitigation: 4705 / 10518

Originally Posted by Jarnos

The best way to compare items is to bring them all down to their base numbers.

Hear, hear! :-) Even better, IMO, is to look at the actual percentages (so you see diminishing returns). Which brings us too...

Originally Posted by Jarnos

This comparison isn't completely fair.
You make it sounds like the Vitality would be the smarter choice, because it gives phys and tac mit. ( I believe 60 vit gives 12 tac mit? Hardly noticable I might add) but you don't point out Agility gives crit and evade/parry to counter that.

Try it. ;-)

Seriously, try it. With agility well over 1200, drop it several hundred points and see the resulting percentage difference of your evade and your crit.

That is why I didn't point out what you suggest I should have pointed out, because in the same post I mentioned "if your agility is already over 1400", which is into diminishing returns and at that point, more agility won't effectively give significantly more crit or evade, which brings us to parry...

Whoops, that was funny, when I just swapped in vitality gear, I dropped my agility 300 points and my parry increased half a percent! ;-) Heh... Yeah, my swap gear has over 600 parry on it. *rollseyes (Yes, of course I subsequently removed the items entirely.)

Here's a follow-up question, when a cappy is applying buffs, do you request, crit, parry, or focus? Which has greater benefit? By how much?

PS: On the tactical mitigation question, it's actually 4 per vitality, so 60 would be 240 rating, not 12. With low vitality (IE, below diminishing returns), 87 more vit. gave me just over 1% mitigation. Compare that to how much agility it takes for the same amount of percentage in diminishing returns? (Hint, 87 agil gives a few tenths of a percent.) Sorry to poke, but "hardly noticeable" applies to what now? ;-)



"Sometimes survival comes down to not being hit. Actually, most times." -the chicken skill, Bob and Weave

Originally Posted by thatabguy

Enjoy, I put a lot of effort to make this for you guys.

You rock, +rep. I was thinking after last night it would be great to have averages instead of highest.



"Sometimes survival comes down to not being hit. Actually, most times." -the chicken skill, Bob and Weave

I'm curious about your parses Melmadoc. First of all congratulations on the impressive numbers, but the difference between your damage on the training dummy v. Kalbak seems quite small. Your damage only increases by 33% against Kalbak even though you should have positional bonus (50% for a QK burg) and with 3 burgs two more Reveal Weaknesses and two more Counter Defences going.

Which leads to my question: does a positional bonus of 35% (which is what I have at the moment) increase my damage by 35% or by half that? My melee damage is around 100%.

Originally Posted by Merowin

I'm curious about your parses Melmadoc. First of all congratulations on the impressive numbers, but the difference between your damage on the training dummy v. Kalbak seems quite small. Your damage only increases by 33% against Kalbak even though you should have positional bonus (50% for a QK burg) and with 3 burgs two more Reveal Weaknesses and two more Counter Defences going.

Which leads to my question: does a positional bonus of 35% (which is what I have at the moment) increase my damage by 35% or by half that? My melee damage is around 100%.

Kalbak has far more Resistance - Armour - BPE - Misschance than a Dummy

Couple things I want to say.

1. About Fate
Fate is our third most important primary stat after Agility and Vitality, but it really is not that good. What does it give again?

Crit rating. 1.75 for each point. Equal to agility contribution.

ICPR. Formulated. 30 * sqrt (fate). Subject to very heavydiminishing returns, as you will see if you try to formula with numbers.

ICMR. 1.5 for each point. Would take a lot of investment to get a decent amount.

My point? Not worth it as much as some of you think it is. Crit rating can be acquired from agility and ICMR is not something you want to be stacking fate for. If you want ICPR, go for raw derived stat bonuses, especially on relics. I have 430 fate but 1.5k ICPR. Only 620 of my ICPR comes from Fate. Think about it.

2. About Vitality
Vitality is our second most important stat. Obviously, this will go much like how it went above with Fate. Lets take a look at what it gives us.

Morale. 3 for each point. Easier to get raw bonuses to morale though. Most items have either ~160 or ~320 morale bonuses on them now. Alongside agility or raw crit and ICPR bonuses.

Tactical Mitigation. 4 for each point. More or less the most important stat on vitality. However, like the other derived stats, this is much easier to get in raw form. There is a necklace that gives ~1500 tactical mit, alongside a huge offensive bonus. There are cloaks that give ~1500 and ~1000 tactical mitigation, alongside many other useful bonuses. 1500 tactical mitigation would require 375 vitality to acquire. This way, it just takes one item slot. There are also virtues, but I shouldn't even be saying that.

Physical Mitigation. 2 for each point. Acquiring it directly from raw bonuses is even better in this case, since it is half as effective as it was for tactical mitigation. Same situation with items and virtues.

Resistances. 2 for each point. Virtues if you really need to. You will never get enough resistance by just stacting vitality. It follows a formula more similar to the crit rating formula, which is more demanding and subject to higher DR than the mitigation formula.

OOCPR. Nope.

3. About Agility

I went through the trouble of writing all those things above, just for this moment.

True, the situation is much like the stats above. It is much easier to get crit rating directly in raw form (which comes in ~350 and ~700), and while avoidances are not easy to find on items, they are still subject to heavy DR and are not enough to warrant stacking agility just for them.

However, agility contributes to one stat that is not affected by DR and can not be gained easier in raw form. Even if you go for it directly, you will mostly find that it comes with agility alongside it anyway. You will not have "1200 agility but extremely high amounts of this stat". Despite what anyone may say, the best way to get this stat is to stack agility. You all know what this stat is. How important it is.

I appreciate it very much when players look behind the numbers to figure out the math behind them. Yet sometimes, they still end up seeing what they want to see anyway.

That is all I have to say.