Here's what needs to change:[list][*]Healing and Stacking
All captain HoTs now stack with other captain HoTs
Rally Cry now stacks with itself indefinitely.
Words of Courage will stack with itself up to five times, with newer HoT applications replacing the oldest HoT application.
indefinitely stack!! otherwise the same should be done with RK PoH and RoH then
to stack with other cappy buff well that would make sense.
as for WoC I would rather see the ToO bonus set of WoC buffing target for incoming healing healing, stacking 3 time, to be turned into a HoH trait.
Originally Posted by Almagnus1
[*]Buffs
Banner of War
+20*level Physical Mastery (1500 at 75)
+20*level Tactical Mastery (1500 at 75)
+10*level Crit (750 at 75)
+15*level Finesse (1125 at 75)
Banner of Hope
+12*level Morale (900 at 75)
+2*level ICMR (150 at 75)
+level/10 Incoming Healing (7.5 at 75)
Banner of Victory
+20*level Physical Mitigation (1500 at 75)
+20*level Tactical Mitigation (1500 at 75)
+7*level Power (525 at 75)
+6*level ICPR (450 at 75)
Coldfells Banner
+20*level Physical Mitigation (1500 at 75)
+20*level Tactical Mitigation (1500 at 75)
+20*level Physical Mastery (1500 at 75)
+20*level Tactical Mastery (1500 at 75)
Light of Elendil
Blade of Elendil has a 100% chance to apply this to the captain.
Light of Elendil retains it's existing spread mechanic.
Light of Elendil changes to a modal buff/debuff:
Freep: PoT
Creep: -Finesse
Mob: -B/P/E
agree, just don't understand what's the blade of elendil PoT effect to freep.
Originally Posted by Almagnus1
[*]Items[list][*]All herald appearances are now gained through a talisman-like mechanic, similar to how LMs gain pet appearances.[*]Armaments
All armaments now have stats on them, so a 75 Armament will have:
+685 Maximum Morale
+3344 Physical Mastery Rating
To keep Armaments and banners in sync with each other, Armaments' will need to have recipes to allow them to be made every 5 levels from their introduction to endgame.
make sense
Originally Posted by Almagnus1
[list][*]Legacy Changes:
The following legacies are being rolled into their base skills, to allow the devs the ability to introduce other legacies to better support our primary roles.
Strength of Will
Motivating Speech
Tactics: Relentless Attack
Tactics: On Guard
Tactics: Focus
To Arms duration
I agree that legacies should be removed but not that they should be moved into the skills... rather into traits-line bonus set.
Originally Posted by Almagnus1
[*]Traitline Changes
[*]Lead the Charge
[*]The following additions are being made to the traitline:
[*]2 Traits:
Blade Brother now bestows War Stance to the Captain[*]War Stance
+10% Melee Crit Magnitude
+5% Damage
+7.5% Devastate Magnitude
[*]Leader of Men
[*]The following additions are being made to the traitline:
[*]2 Traits:
Shield Brother bestows Victory Stance to the Captain[*]Victory Stance
Captain healing generates additional threat [turns Inspire and RC into threat generators]
+5% Increased threat
+vitality to Morale [Effectively 4*vit instead of 3*vit for vit => morale]
+5% Partial Block, Parry, and Evade
[*]Hands of Healing
[*]The following additions are being made to the traitline:
[*]2 Traits:
Song Brother bestows Hope Stance to the Captain[*]Hope Stance
+10% Healing Crit Magnitude
+5% Outgoing Healing
+5% Tactical Crit
why adding stance! capstone already grant self buff which act more the same as stance.
as for tanking there is Aggressive Stance gained from Grave Wound.
Originally Posted by Almagnus1
[*]Traitline Changes
[*]Lead the Charge
[*]The following additions are being made to the traitline:[*]4 Traits:
+X * 2% Melee Damage, where X is the number of currently slotted LtC traits
[*]Hands of Healing
[*]The following additions are being made to the traitline:
[*]4 Traits:
+X * 2% Outgoing Healing, where X is the number of currently slotted HoH traits
[*]Leader of Men
[*]The following additions are being made to the traitline:
[*]4 Traits:
+Level * 2 Critical Defence [150 Crit Defence @ 75]
+.5% * X Perceived Threat, where X is the number of Leader of Men traits currently slotted.
well that might be done with almost any classes, I add the same view at first but have moved to it since the change it brought to the Rk...now if you go one trait-line rk you are better going 7 trait in that line then taking few trait elsewhere, except for the prophetic words for the CD redux and rez improvement it brought.
Beside I would rather see the +bonus/trait-line equipped to be placed into the capstone legendary trait rather than a simple 4 traits set bonus.
Also I would rather wish to see a +20% bonus stats, per trait-line inquipped in LtC, from cappy's gears to the herald/archer stats.
Originally Posted by Almagnus1
[*]Because of the changes to War Banner,
Captain's Valour is being replaced with: Searing Light
Shadows Lament will do 200% more damage to a target affected by Light of Elendil, but this will consume Light of Elendil on the target and the captain.
o.O Shadow Lament was design as a threat generating skills and should remain that way, see my own suggestion about blade of elendil and shadow lament.
Originally Posted by Almagnus1
[*]Master of War
Gains +1 Herald Level
[*]Loyalty
Gains +1 Herald Level
Improves herald ICPR
[*]Precise Ally
Grants the Herald/Archer finesse.
Heralds and Archers now share the damage type of the captain, by using the following table:
Captain
Herald/Archer
Beleriand
Beleriand
Beleriand + Stuff
Beleriand
Westernesse
Westernesse
Westernesse + Stuff
Westernesse
Ancient Dwarf
Ancient Dwarf
Everything Else
Common
why 2 traits that make the same thing, almost... one give increased ICPR!!! and what will that change since pet don'T even survive boss fight AoE??
I would rather wish to see Loyalty make herald/archer summonable in combat, with no induction and a 30sec Cooldown (or 1 minutes maybe).
As for precise Ally I agree and would just add to hit the level increase you placed into MoW and Loyalty.
Originally Posted by Almagnus1
[*]Because of the changes to Hope Banner,
Captain's Hope is being replaced with:
Healing Light
While you are affected by the Light of Elendil, your next Words of Courage restores 100% more morale, and expends all of it's HoT ticks at the same time. Using Words of Courage consumes your Light of Elendil buff.
No why would WoC consume a BoE buff?
Beside for mechanics sake there is no logic there.
Originally Posted by Almagnus1
[*]Because of the changes to Victory Banner,
Captain's Victory is being replaced with:
Blinding Light
While you are affected by the Light of Elendil, your next Threatening Shout does 100% more threat, and affects 2 additional targets. Using Threatening Shout consumes your Light of Elendil buff.
Still the same, a skill that consume LoE for no reason beside a mechanic duplication around the traitline spectrum.
Originally Posted by Almagnus1
[*]Tacical Prowess is being rolled into To Arms, and will be replaced with:
Tactical Retreat
Changes Fighting Withdrawal into Tactical Retreat.
[*]Tactical Retreat
Targeted Freep loses part of their threat with all mobs currently engaged in combat within 30m of the target.
The captain cannot be the target of Tactical Retrerat.
Range: 30m
Cooldown: 15s
That's a good idea to change that skill to target a fellow and drop threat from it, that would make it more usefull but I would rather place it into the LoM capstone trait.
Originally Posted by Almagnus1
[*]Skills
[*]The captain now has an out of combat rez.
[*]The captain now has dread removal.
no... and no.
then what dread removal to LM too... then what why not just remove the defeat dread from the game at all!
only thing is Cry of Vengeance should affect all defeated target within Cappy radius, and Escape the Darkness would rez all within radius of the target.
Originally Posted by Almagnus1
[*]To Arms duration is increased to 30 seconds.
[*]Motivating Speech is increased to 10%.
[*]Tactics: Relentless Attack, On Guard, and Focus have their maxed out legacy rolled into the skills.
no, no, no.
Originally Posted by Almagnus1
[*]Valiant Strike's Heal and HoT now have a radius of 30m.
Yes
Originally Posted by Almagnus1
[*]Song Brother
[*]Song Brother loses the healing threat reduction, but gains a tactical mastery bonus.
[*]Strength of Will changes to +5% Critical to the Song-Brother target.
[*]Inspire gains a HoT equivalent to the current Shield Brother Inspire, making Song Brother's inspire a high powered version of Blade Brother's Inspire.
[*]Shield Brother
[*]Strength of Will is increased to 20%
[*]Inspire gains a PoT equivalent to Blade Brother's Inspire's PoT.
no to all that, read my suggestion about x-bro skill and the capstone... that woudl allow more versatility and flexibility:
LoM would get Shield-bro on him even while placing song-bro on healer so his inspire would heal power, and To Arm would take the effect instead from the self buff of cappy rather then x=bro skills used.
HoH would get song-bro on self even while placing Shield-bro on tank so his inspire will heal and cappy would get SoW: shield-bro while getting the To Arm (song-bro)
That's why I would switch the Banner role...LoM would get Morale buffing Banner and HoH would get Power buffing Banner.
Originally Posted by Almagnus1
[*]Defensive Strike
While under the effects of Light of Elendil, Defensive Strike costs no power, and has a 60% chance to return power.
that would fit more into a gear bonus set imo.
Originally Posted by Almagnus1
[*]Heralds and Archers
These need some love, because almost no one uses them in a group setting, and most use them grudgingly solo. In addition to the banner buffs the heralds are known for, all of our summons also receive buff auras.
[*]General improvements:
It's time we blend the skirmish system into the heralds, and start using some of their traits to improve our summons so they don't suck as bad as they do.
[*]Heralds are now affected by:
[*]Heavy Armor Training
[*]Physical Potency
[*]Tactical Potency
[*]Practiced Critical
[*]Archers are now affected by:
[*]Medium Armor Training
[*]Physical Potency
[*]Practiced Critical
[*]Boundless Morale
[*]Herald of War
[*]Coordinated Attack is replaced with the Banner Guard's Potent Strike (Singer Target DPS)
[*]Infuriating Tactics is replaced with the Banner Guard's Bold Strike (Single Target DPS + Threat)
[*]Herald of War gains a damage reflection buff aura
[*]Herald of Hope
[*]Coordinated Attack is replaced with the Banner Guard's Potent Strike (Singer Target DPS)
[*]Infuriating Tactics is replaced with the Banner Guard's Inspiring Shout (HoT)
[*]Herald of Hope gains an armor buff aura
[*]Herald of Victory
[*]Coordinated Attack is replaced with the Banner Guard's Summon the Foe (AE Threat)
[*]Infuriating Tactics is replaced with the Banner Guard's Bold Strike (Single Target DPS + Threat)
[*]Lend Will no longer has a morale cost.
[*]Herald of Victory gains an armor buff aura
[*]Archer
[*]Barbed Arrow existing functionality is gutted, and replaced with Skirmish Archer's Distracting Shot (Single Target
DPS + Detaunt), while retaining an improved slow of -20% movement speed.
[*]Sue Aim is replaced with the Skirmish Archer's Ultimate: Wound Seeker (Single Target DPS + DoT)
[*]Archer gains a +crit rating and +crit magnitude buff aura.
wouldn't that be imbalancing? I dunno it's an interesting suggestion but would require then cappy to lvl banner guard/archer skill to get those improvement while no other classes are forced into taking any soldier traits at all...
that's why I think it would be unfair and imbalancing.
Last edited by jeanperson; Jul 08 2012 at 12:04 AM.
Then what would be the point of using anything other than Blade Brother?
well you would get the SoW and inspire effect in accord to the x-bro skill used not the self buff... as for To Arm I would suggest to make it locked to the self buff version instead...
so:
LoM cappy
Place Song-bro or Blade-Bro and get Shield-bro on self and keep the To Arm -25% incoming damage.
while he would get or SoW(song-bro) healing power cost redux or SoW(Blade-Bro) the attack duration redux.
aswell as Inspire(power) or Inspire(morale& power).
So then, the Morale banner should become the LoM To-Go banner
HoH cappy
Place Shield-bro or Blade-Bro and get Song-bro on self and keep the To Arm +25% outgoing healing.
while he would get or SoW(shield-bro) incoming healing bonus or SoW(Blade-Bro) the attack duration redux.
aswell as Inspire(morale) or Inspire(morale& power).
So then, the Power Banner should become the HoH To-Go Banner
LtC cappy
Place any brother skill and get Blade-bro on self and keep the To Arm +25% Damage.
while he would get the appropriate SoW and Inspire effect.
Since BM replied to the post of Yours and I'd more or less say similar stuff there, I'll skip that. Instead I'll focus on 2 issues.
1. You write that other classes can't do dps and heals at same times and that's correct. But can captain really do it? That was my whole point whit discussing about overhealing with RC. How much of surprisingly big numbers of hps in LtC goes waste? People go LtC as it offers nice dps boost without influencing our heals much(apart from VS) and giving more on defeats.
Or in more simple way, because it's "best" line now. If we had blue line that could help us more with healing, you wouldn't really go LtC for heals. And this is the way it should go. Is idea in OP perfect way for that? I dunno, but it has some nice choices you have to make while traiting and playing. The balance between damage and healing or tanking and healing You(and me too) would like to see is imo to be determined in test server with proper tools devs have. And I don't think we really disagree here - one main role at a time.
2. "Taking any captain, be it the 1st or the 5th should be a choice, one decided by content, gear, and player skill."
And in reality 2nd - 5th will only happen when captain can trait for proper main role. As currently our group support and as such 1st captain it's a "must have" per fellowship. And while I see Your point of having different classes available for same spot, I don't see any other solution except making captain have both buffs and one main role at same time . Otherwise you'd basically have to strip this class from buffs(some or all, not the point here) when going main role and that seems okay. But there are two huge issues with that. First - pure classes would still be better by just having more skills and versatility for their role, so why choose captain? Second - why any group would want captain traited for main role when it can trait for all lovely buffs? We've all been there with yellow line pre RoI...
Anyways even if we had class that could rival captain buffing, groups would want both since buffs stack(unlike tanking). This is exactly how it goes with minstrels. You have them along us. And without huge class balance revamps you can't change that. And more so - it won't happen. Unless Turbine will want to launch LOTRO 2. WoW devs were smarter about his and splitted buffs between every class, so everyone brings something to the party in raid. So while discussion on this would be interesting, it's way off topic and pointless.
1) the issue is that default healing of RC is to big and should be nerfed while the HoH should concerve it as it is now.
2)
if the buff would be bind to the role spec and no cappy might have all buff as equal ppl would have to make choice, imo: buff should fit the role: LoM morale banner and parry buff; HoH: power banner and focus buff; LtC: Agi & Might and Crit buff.
Sure you'll say that LtC would become the way line... but that would depend of the balanced value...if morale "Victory" Banner and On Guard got better value and power "Hope" Banner and Focus would get even more better stats value so to make the balance tilt more fairly around the 3 specs choices.
indefinitely stack!! otherwise the same should be done with RK PoH and RoH then
to stack with other cappy buff well that would make sense.
as for WoC I would rather see the ToO bonus set of WoC buffing target for incoming healing healing, stacking 3 time, to be turned into a HoH trait.
The idea is to fix the problem where multiple captain HoTs overwrite each other, yet other classes (like the RKs) can have the same HoT stack multiple times.
Originally Posted by jeanperson
I agree that legacies should be removed but not that they should be moved into the skills... rather into traits-line bonus set.
I'd rather have them rolled into the skills - it retains flexibility so a fourth path (non-capstone) is still a viable option.
Originally Posted by jeanperson
why adding stance! capstone already grant self buff which act more the same as stance.
as for tanking there is Aggressive Stance gained from Grave Wound.
I'm looking at it from the point of view that the Brother skills are already stances, as unconventional as that may be. The reason why it is relatively low in the tree is to allow a capstone build the ability to choose 2/3 stances without penalty, and allow non-capstone the ability to have all three, and switch between them as need be.
Originally Posted by jeanperson
well that might be done with almost any classes, I add the same view at first but have moved to it since the change it brought to the Rk...now if you go one trait-line rk you are better going 7 trait in that line then taking few trait elsewhere, except for the prophetic words for the CD redux and rez improvement it brought.
Beside I would rather see the +bonus/trait-line equipped to be placed into the capstone legendary trait rather than a simple 4 traits set bonus.
Also I would rather wish to see a +20% bonus stats, per trait-line inquipped in LtC, from cappy's gears to the herald/archer stats.
Again, this is a choice to keep the non-capstone build viable, and it's something that's balanced against the stances.
Originally Posted by jeanperson
agree, just don't understand what's the blade of elendil PoT effect to freep.
...
o.O Shadow Lament was design as a threat generating skills and should remain that way, see my own suggestion about blade of elendil and shadow lament.
....
No why would WoC consume a BoE buff?
Beside for mechanics sake there is no logic there.
Still the same, a skill that consume LoE for no reason beside a mechanic duplication around the traitline spectrum.
I was working with the quesiton: "What if each traitline could consume the Light of Elendil buff?" and created a cycle of traits off of that idea, thus the word "light" in each of the trait names. The idea was also to add in some additional complexity to the class by having to manage how and when the Light of Elendil buff is applied and consumed - since it's really amibiguous what exactly it does now, aside from annoying mezzers.
RE: Shadows Lament: While it may have originally been a threat skill, it's become a crucial part of the LtC damage rotation, so unless there's something rather dramatic from the Turbine side of things (unlikely unless Orion gets involved), I doubt it will change, so just accept it for what it is.
Originally Posted by jeanperson
why 2 traits that make the same thing, almost... one give increased ICPR!!! and what will that change since pet don'T even survive boss fight AoE??
I would rather wish to see Loyalty make herald/archer summonable in combat, with no induction and a 30sec Cooldown (or 1 minutes maybe).
As for precise Ally I agree and would just add to hit the level increase you placed into MoW and Loyalty.
For the sake of brevity, I didn't list what the traits did already, so it's an additive change. Loyalty becomes defensive, while Precise Ally becomes offensive.
Originally Posted by jeanperson
That's a good idea to change that skill to target a fellow and drop threat from it, that would make it more usefull but I would rather place it into the LoM capstone trait.
Then what would replace the void left behind by Tactical Prowess?
Originally Posted by jeanperson
no... and no.
then what dread removal to LM too... then what why not just remove the defeat dread from the game at all!
only thing is Cry of Vengeance should affect all defeated target within Cappy radius, and Escape the Darkness would rez all within radius of the target.
As each expansion passes, captains are creeping closer and closer to being able to main heal content. These are two tools that are necessary for that role.
And what's wrong with a third of the classes being able to main heal?
Originally Posted by jeanperson
no, no, no.
That's the side effect of axing the legacies.
So, why not?
[QUOTE=jeanperson;6274796]Yes
Originally Posted by jeanperson
no to all that, read my suggestion about x-bro skill and the capstone... that woudl allow more versatility and flexibility:
LoM would get Shield-bro on him even while placing song-bro on healer so his inspire would heal power, and To Arm would take the effect instead from the self buff of cappy rather then x=bro skills used.
HoH would get song-bro on self even while placing Shield-bro on tank so his inspire will heal and cappy would get SoW: shield-bro while getting the To Arm (song-bro)
That's why I would switch the Banner role...LoM would get Morale buffing Banner and HoH would get Power buffing Banner.
Truthfully, I need to go back through and rehash that section. My thinking has changed since then.
Originally Posted by jeanperson
that would fit more into a gear bonus set imo.
That's more of an idea to get defensive strike to be more power efficient, and help with LoM power issues. In all honesty, we need to have all of our power costs normalized down so that LoM doesn't eat it's power bar five times over before the end of a boss fight.
Originally Posted by jeanperson
wouldn't that be imbalancing? I dunno it's an interesting suggestion but would require then cappy to lvl banner guard/archer skill to get those improvement while no other classes are forced into taking any soldier traits at all...
that's why I think it would be unfair and imbalancing.
No, the idea would be to have Turbine use those skills in place of the current ones on the herald/archer, then set it up so that it auto levels, and for us, all we see is skill changes, and it just works without us needing to invest any skirmish currency.
The secondary idea was to cause each of the heralds and archer to have a bit more personality in their skills, so there's now four different type of summons, rather than just 2 (effectively).
All captain HoTs now stack with other captain HoTs
Rally Cry now stacks with itself indefinitely.
Words of Courage will stack with itself up to five times, with newer HoT applications replacing the oldest HoT application.
[*]Items
All herald appearances are now gained through a talisman-like mechanic, similar to how LMs gain pet appearances.
Armaments
All armaments now have stats on them, so a 75 Armament will have:
+685 Maximum Morale
+3344 Physical Mastery Rating
To keep Armaments and banners in sync with each other, Armaments' will need to have recipes to allow them to be made every 5 levels from their introduction to endgame.
well for the healing the Dagor 3 set bonus that make WoC place a buff on target that stack 3 time and increase incoming heal seam imo a better way to go instead of making all hot stack.
Still I aggree that Hot from different Cappy should stack, i never opposed to that.
anyway, even with the RC at 6 seconds cooldown you'll get only 2 RC hot at same time at best,
as for WoC, cappy is already overcrowding the UI with buffs stacking WoC that would last 60 secons+ with legacies...
5 WoC +2 RC hot + 2 RC pot...I would rather prefere to get the Dagor 3 set equipped bonus into a trait instead, so WoC would increase incoming healing and that would affect all hot aswell.
as for Armament I never understood why they didn't done it the same time they made iot for LM... my thought was the armament of the OB was requiring LtC capstone...but even there.
Personnally I would prefere to get only Standard that would increase stats and not prevent the summonig of herald;
so cappy will just equip the choosen standard for the stats and summon herald and if herald die cappy might simply plant standard himself without having to switch armament for a standard before...
result would be the same and it will free my action bar from all the standard to quick equip during fight...
even there I am not satisfied. imo the standard/armament /herald skill should be redesign and simplified.
I understand the reason for the stance you've made but it will then just force further more cappy into a single X-bro skill use, and since only shield-bro is available below 70 then it will not change anything for low lvl.
Even if we got soem difference, there is soem idea of your that I like even if I made some different suggestions.
As fo the damage type for herald I included your suggestion into mine but imo I would rather simply make that armament to define the damage type of herald...so would enforce to equip/craft/trade/carry different armament for the different damage type of herald.
I know the OP of my own thread is not as well formatted as your, I made resume in 4 replies the 6th 7th 8th and 9th.
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Originally Posted by Almagnus1
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