Thread: Wargs

Originally Posted by stoffi

I do make 1600-1800 crits sometimes. But that's not my fault

Actually it is, if you had not hit the skill, it would not have happened.
Just sayin'.

Originally Posted by Squelcher

Actually it is, if you had not hit the skill, it would not have happened.
Just sayin'.

If I'm driving and people keep walking into my path, it's not my fault that they get hit!!!






Anyways, what I'm saying is low levels, npcs and ppl with ###### gear will get 1600 crits, aka few ppl in the moors.

Originally Posted by Baronth

You don't remember our 1vs1s Mork ^^ Expecially the one near TR gate, i fight you back without run to npcs ^^

Love you

Talyla

I do remember But a lot of players don't fight back, sadly :/ I guess they expect 10 other wargs to pop up as well...

Love you too <3

Originally Posted by stoffi

Well, if you got audacity lvl 6 and take crits from wargs up to 1600 dmg, you're doing something wrong. On hunters, I generally crit 1200, guessing they don't have audacity at all. Other players I KNOW have audacity, will never receive 1200 crits from me, rather 900~.

So how you can get 1600 crits from wargs with audacity is beyond me. Your gear must be #### or something. ^^

And yes, hunters are easy to kill on warg but there's a long range of other classes who will beat wargs. Hunters need a dps nerf but also a defence boost.


Edit: Against a few hunters with ###### gear and low morale, I do make 1600-1800 crits sometimes. But that's not my fault, get some half-decent gear!

About that, I dont think my gear is ###### in any way, i have orthanc gear (full armour when not in EM) and t8 relics, same for jewellery which is all post u6 and about inc damage I checked many pvp hunters on mylotro. My mitigation is pretty high, 4,2k physical and 6k tactical so definitely I should take less dmg than some hunters. If u dont believe me you can still inspect me, i'm not anonymous ^^ And personally I prefer to have more mitigation and a bit less damage, so i definitely dont overpower damage for defense.
Here are my stats I use in EM (different from raid setup) if u wanna know them:
Agility 1679
Vitality 1024
Morale 8290
Critical 7290
Evade 6416
Parry 3280
Phys Mastery 23,339
Phys Mitigation 4682
Tactical Mitigation 6291
Audacity 6 (tomorrow prob will reach 7)

From a few mins ago, got dev critted 1480 by a r11 warg.
Audacity 1/7 changes 20% of inc damage, so basically if it's 1800 crit it is +/-1400 on r7.
Asked some kinmates who are highered ranked than me and they get critted same or more (more for light armour).
About mitigations I agree with Ascahill, that changes a lot expecially in endgame raids.

P.S. For crit I meant devastated anyways :P Crit of bestial claws does 800 dmg to me (at least Warder's one)

Edit: Changing virtues and doing kamikaze on a warg pack thats what it changed: 1293 devastated instead of 1400. Not much difference though :P

Originally Posted by Alakin93

About that, I dont think my gear is ###### in any way, i have orthanc gear (full armour when not in EM) and t8 relics, same for jewellery which is all post u6 and about inc damage I checked many pvp hunters on mylotro. My mitigation is pretty high, 4,2k physical and 6k tactical so definitely I should take less dmg than some hunters. If u dont believe me you can still inspect me, i'm not anonymous ^^ And personally I prefer to have more mitigation and a bit less damage, so i definitely dont overpower damage for defense.
Here are my stats I use in EM (different from raid setup) if u wanna know them:
Agility 1679
Vitality 1024
Morale 8290
Critical 7290
Evade 6416
Parry 3280
Phys Mastery 23,339
Phys Mitigation 4682
Tactical Mitigation 6291
Audacity 6 (tomorrow prob will reach 7)

From a few mins ago, got dev critted 1480 by a r11 warg.
Audacity 1/7 changes 20% of inc damage, so basically if it's 1800 crit it is +/-1400 on r7.
Asked some kinmates who are highered ranked than me and they get critted same or more (more for light armour).
About mitigations I agree with Ascahill, that changes a lot expecially in endgame raids.

P.S. For crit I meant devastated anyways :P Crit of bestial claws does 800 dmg to me (at least Warder's one)

Edit: Changing virtues and doing kamikaze on a warg pack thats what it changed: 1293 devastated instead of 1400. Not much difference though :P

I use http://www.lotrointerface.com/downlo...tAnalysis.html to analyse all my fights since u6 came and I've noticed how I crit/dev 800-900dmg against LIGHT armour with high audacity and 1200 dmg against non-audacity light armour. I am rank 10 and use 3 dmg(including 2 mastery) and 3 morale traits, so I do as much dmg as the next warg around.

Maybe compare with other hunters? If you want, and can bring a mini, we can even go test it out tomorrow at LC HS and I'll Claw you a zillion times to see what kind of crits come up. But 1600-1800 is not normal, I don't understand how that can be possible if you got decent gear, it shouldn't be possible. Maybe another hunter can come compare or give input?

Sure we can, u can contact me via freep and we can test that. Tonight we tried, a mini of my kin has audacity 3 and took around 1.7k devastated from warder. I tried and got 870 crit once and 1270 devastated. With audacity 7 it should go around 1200 devastated anyways. I asked a higher ranked hunter and he gets devastated around 1200 too, and has lower mitigation of me (but au7 and me 6 so should be fair enough). But as I said, lets try it (I use combat analysis in raids too usually not EM but will try it). Write me when u have free time :P

Originally Posted by Alakin93

About that, I dont think my gear is ###### in any way, i have orthanc gear (full armour when not in EM) and t8 relics, same for jewellery which is all post u6 and about inc damage I checked many pvp hunters on mylotro. My mitigation is pretty high, 4,2k physical and 6k tactical so definitely I should take less dmg than some hunters. If u dont believe me you can still inspect me, i'm not anonymous ^^ And personally I prefer to have more mitigation and a bit less damage, so i definitely dont overpower damage for defense.
Here are my stats I use in EM (different from raid setup) if u wanna know them:
Agility 1679
Vitality 1024
Morale 8290
Critical 7290
Evade 6416
Parry 3280
Phys Mastery 23,339
Phys Mitigation 4682
Tactical Mitigation 6291
Audacity 6 (tomorrow prob will reach 7)

Im running in moors with ~10k tact mitigation, ~8k morale and ~26k phys mastery (aud7), 6k tact mits is not enough imo.

Originally Posted by giboosc

Im running in moors with ~10k tact mitigation, ~8k morale and ~26k phys mastery (aud7), 6k tact mits is not enough imo.

Perhaps this is a reason then? (not tactical as wargs don't use that ^^)


What crits do you take, keeslaf? Audacity?

Originally Posted by giboosc

Im running in moors with ~10k tact mitigation, ~8k morale and ~26k phys mastery (aud7), 6k tact mits is not enough imo.

That's the way to do it. You're pretty much capped Kees right?

Originally Posted by stoffi

Perhaps this is a reason then? (not tactical as wargs don't use that ^^)

What do you mean by that? We use tactical damage all the time, since our damage type is Shadow.

Originally Posted by stoffi

Perhaps this is a reason then? (not tactical as wargs don't use that ^^)

I was using my Limfarim in spars and got a question 'why are you using that ###### pet, I said it gives actually good healing on me and miss chance on my enemy'.
Then I hear that my Raven should be better cuz it gives you Tac mit, I said 'It won't work at reavers and Wargs'.
Then I got corrected by a very kind Captain a few weeks ago, All creeps do Tactical Damage...

I have been playin EM for 5 years and didn't know this, I should be ashamed -_-

Well so thats the point :P I thought warg done physical dmg but then if it's tactical...thats the answer, will change virtues when I come in em then. Thanks

Well it's not well said but, most of the wargs in EM are traited with Shadow Fangs which changes the damage type to shadow. Therefor, it's not physical mitigation anymore but tactical.

Originally Posted by The_Legacy

I was using my Limfarim in spars and got a question 'why are you using that ###### pet, I said it gives actually good healing on me and miss chance on my enemy'.
Then I hear that my Raven should be better cuz it gives you Tac mit, I said 'It won't work at reavers and Wargs'.
Then I got corrected by a very kind Captain a few weeks ago, All creeps do Tactical Damage...

I have been playin EM for 5 years and didn't know this, I should be ashamed -_-

Shadow dmg is tactical? ###.... Has that changed recently? I seem to remember Shadow being under PHYSICAL.


Anything else under tactical now? Westernesse? Fire?

This is not logical at all. ^^

Originally Posted by stoffi

Shadow dmg is tactical? ###.... Has that changed recently? I seem to remember Shadow being under PHYSICAL.


Anything else under tactical now? Westernesse? Fire?

This is not logical at all. ^^

As writed in this post: http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.p...on-and-Offence

Shadow, Lightning, Acid, Fire and Frost mitigations now build upon a new stat called Tactical Mitigation (more exactly: Non-Physical Damage Mitgation).

Originally Posted by Baronth

As writed in this post: http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.p...on-and-Offence

Shadow, Lightning, Acid, Fire and Frost mitigations now build upon a new stat called Tactical Mitigation (more exactly: Non-Physical Damage Mitgation).

in my eyes tactical means lightning from fingers, atom bombs from the sky etc...when u get hit by something physically, it should be physical damage surely? thats just moronic. my 2 cents which no one cares about any way

''Ow that warg scratched\bit\mauled me and it tactically hurt'' doesnt seem right

Originally Posted by Tarthalian

in my eyes tactical means lightning from fingers, atom bombs from the sky etc...when u get hit by something physically, it should be physical damage surely? thats just moronic. my 2 cents which no one cares about any way

''Ow that warg scratched\bit\mauled me and it tactically hurt'' doesnt seem right

I agree, but that's the way the game is.

I think the wrong thing with wargs is the damage/resistance proportion. A heart seeker on a high ranked warg does 30% of his damage, thats mad. For example, when 5 wargs storm EC at least one should die (having all mobs shooting at him), or what? Their armour/inc damage resistance is really too high in my opinion. Take 5 burglars and make them storm OC, 1 would die I guess or? Well that's just my 2 cents, but compared to other creep classes that should be fixed a bit I think.

Originally Posted by Alakin93

I think the wrong thing with wargs is the damage/resistance proportion. A heart seeker on a high ranked warg does 30% of his damage, thats mad. For example, when 5 wargs storm EC at least one should die (having all mobs shooting at him), or what? Their armour/inc damage resistance is really too high in my opinion. Take 5 burglars and make them storm OC, 1 would die I guess or? Well that's just my 2 cents, but compared to other creep classes that should be fixed a bit I think.

Touch and go.

Originally Posted by Ascahil

I agree, but that's the way the game is.

I agree too...

This is tactical: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YL9nDLiuhnM

Originally Posted by Limmy

Touch and go.

Yes, that's true, burgs have 50% evade chance but they have 6k morale, wargs have 10-14k and way more resistance so I think that should be still in warg's side.
This morning I 'kited' 5 wargs inside EC for like 50 seconds and 2 of them died (low ranked ones), the big ones seemed to take rly low damage from npc's.

Originally Posted by Alakin93

I think the wrong thing with wargs is the damage/resistance proportion. A heart seeker on a high ranked warg does 30% of his damage, thats mad. For example, when 5 wargs storm EC at least one should die (having all mobs shooting at him), or what? Their armour/inc damage resistance is really too high in my opinion. Take 5 burglars and make them storm OC, 1 would die I guess or? Well that's just my 2 cents, but compared to other creep classes that should be fixed a bit I think.

If you're reffering to the little play that happened this morning while you were in EC, I simply ran inside EC in Flayer stance.

And about what you mentioned, I agree with Shak. 5 burgs storming OC in TnG, no ones dies aside from the target.

Yeah, I noticed that ^^ That's why wargs over r7 are really hard to kill expecially if u have 5 on one person..
One is fine, but 5 are way too many :P
I think its just enough to see how many wargs (and their number increases every day) are there in ettens.
If there are 5 burgs, there are 20 wargs. The number makes the difference I think.

P.S.
In the episode I wrote above u werent there though, that happened maybe 15 mins later or so :P

Nah I agree with you, there are just too many wargs around lately. They have been greatly buffed since U6 and ofc is kind of fotm :P
Hell even in raid vs. raid nights it gets annoying to see only wargs around in the raid, because honestly in raid vs. raid fights wargs are shiat.

Now, well don't get me wrong. On freep side it's the same phenomena. How many minstrels have you seen around lately? It's like they all went in a hole for some time, had sexytime and came back in greater numbers since they were all pewpewlazorz all over the place. Each sides have their downsides. Especially on Gilrain

Completely have to agree about that :P

Originally Posted by Alakin93

Yes, that's true, burgs have 50% evade chance but they have 6k morale, wargs have 10-14k and way more resistance so I think that should be still in warg's side.
This morning I 'kited' 5 wargs inside EC for like 50 seconds and 2 of them died (low ranked ones), the big ones seemed to take rly low damage from npc's.

Wargs on 14k morale? No one uses 14k morale(not sure if we reach it with full morale trait), in fact, 99% of all wargs are between 9.5k and 12.5k morale.
I don't remember seeing a warg on 14k morale, without outside buffs, and most wargs don't run around with Warleaders....

Burgs have typically 7-8k morale. Anything less is just an indication of bad gear, low virtues and probably low skills due to being a new burg and that guy would lose even if he had 12k morale.

It's funny how you manage to twist numbers in your direction.


Also, a burg is still more powerful than a warg but all the regular burgs are gone these days and all those playing now are fairly new and not very good in skill or gear, yet.


But what do you expect? Audacity vs no audacity, pro vs nub.


But yes, warg is strong these days and where it should be. Get audacity, get gear, get experience and you will kill most wargs. (unless you're a hunter)

Originally Posted by Alakin93

I think the wrong thing with wargs is the damage/resistance proportion. A heart seeker on a high ranked warg does 30% of his damage, thats mad. For example, when 5 wargs storm EC at least one should die (having all mobs shooting at him), or what? Their armour/inc damage resistance is really too high in my opinion. Take 5 burglars and make them storm OC, 1 would die I guess or? Well that's just my 2 cents, but compared to other creep classes that should be fixed a bit I think.

No offence, but you really need some better gear or setup or something. You don't hit hard and you go down too quickly.

Also, 5 wargs = 5 targets and the npcs will pick different targets, making it easy for the wargs. Not to mention the warg who's hit the most can just hips when he's going down.

5 burgs storming OC would not die. In fact, 1 burglar could kill a low/medium skill creep(depends on class) solo in very few seconds INSIDE OC, while being hit by npcs, and still get away! Could a warg do the same? Doubtfully, if the freep moved and used a few skills. But we can kill low morale light armour solo if they don't fight too much back.

Originally Posted by Alakin93

Yes, that's true, burgs have 50% evade chance but they have 6k morale, wargs have 10-14k and way more resistance so I think that should be still in warg's side..

Black Arrows have identical evade skill (Moving Target ), tracking option and many friendly wargs around

Originally Posted by stoffi

Also, a burg is still more powerful than a warg but all the regular burgs are gone these days and all those playing now are fairly new and not very good in skill or gear, yet.

We have 2 gear ways - Fast Moving & Stealth Gear and another one - Damage . Two funny HIPS , why funny ? Becase when burg hipsed can be tracked . So I have only 10 sec to change movement direction and go away 90 meters ...

Originally Posted by stoffi

And no, a BA doesn't have a lot of friendly wargs around. That's the same as saying a burg has loads of friendly freeps around. sometimes, yes. Sometimes, no. It is not a skill, it situational and has NOTHING to do with this.

Plz , Stoffi - BAs grouped with Wargs can see each freep and organized attack or trap

Originally Posted by Verenn

Black Arrows have identical evade skill (Moving Target ), tracking option and many friendly wargs around

Your cd is a hell of a lot shorter, not to mention you can do it twice and you got Knives Out x2, which sometimes is a better skill.

So, you got 4 "moving targets". And a lot of freeps seem to use p2w, so the odds are high that you will be tracking on your burg as well.

And no, a BA doesn't have a lot of friendly wargs around. That's the same as saying a burg has loads of friendly freeps around. sometimes, yes. Sometimes, no. It is not a skill, it situational and has NOTHING to do with this.

Originally Posted by stoffi

But yes, warg is strong these days and where it should be. Get audacity, get gear, get experience and you will kill most wargs. (unless you're a hunter)

Doubt it, or did they remove hips?

Originally Posted by Verenn

Black Arrows have identical evade skill (Moving Target ), tracking option and many friendly wargs around




We have 2 gear ways - Fast Moving & Stealth Gear and another one - Damage . Two funny HIPS , why funny ? Becase when burg hipsed can be tracked . So I have only 10 sec to change movement direction and go away 90 meters ...



Plz , Stoffi - BAs grouped with Wargs can see each freep and organized attack or trap

For the tracks how do you think it has been for warg for like forever lol we never had 2 hipses

Tbh i have not seen many wargs grouped with BAs then again i might be going blind
And also if a burg would have somewhat of a brain they could actually ask a LM to give some stealth detection BA can't share that

And Alaking if your HS only does about 30% of it's dmg i think your bow might be broke...

Veren, u forgot too that BA's skill has 25% additional evade chance against ranged even :P

What more should I get? I have orthanc gear and r13-14 virtues, 8k tact mitigation now and u6/orthanc/draig jewels. If you tell me how to get U7 jewels or smth better than I can say u are right. But my equip is really good since I play only this char since 2 years (the cappy I use very rarely and that one is bad equipped), so definitely I dont need equipment or new things (except a first ager but think just a few have it and most of the hunters play with a 2nd agers lol). My HS does 3-4k on a normal warg and 1.8k on stiffer (ok, with 3 rows of buffs but still 1.9k). It does more damage on reaver really lol. Since we play always with the same fellows I think they can even prove that :P

Originally Posted by Alakin93

Veren, u forgot too that BA's skill has 25% additional evade chance against ranged even :P

What more should I get? I have orthanc gear and r13-14 virtues, 8k tact mitigation now and u6/orthanc/draig jewels. If you tell me how to get U7 jewels or smth better than I can say u are right. But my equip is really good since I play only this char since 2 years (the cappy I use very rarely and that one is bad equipped), so definitely I dont need equipment or new things (except a first ager but think just a few have it and most of the hunters play with a 2nd agers lol). My HS does 3-4k on a normal warg and 1.8k on stiffer (ok, with 3 rows of buffs but still 1.9k). It does more damage on reaver really lol. Since we play always with the same fellows I think they can even prove that :P

Normal warg surely you mean a new warg with no audacity. Seriously 1.9k on a warg that is probably at rank7 aud is fine why should it be more? Not like HS is all you have and tbh i think delo has hit me for more then that. Last week i got hit with a blood arrow or what ever it is called for 3k i think well 2 or 3 k not sure anymore

Originally Posted by Verenn

Black Arrows have identical evade skill (Moving Target ), tracking option and many friendly wargs around




We have 2 gear ways - Fast Moving & Stealth Gear and another one - Damage . Two funny HIPS , why funny ? Becase when burg hipsed can be tracked . So I have only 10 sec to change movement direction and go away 90 meters ...



Plz , Stoffi - BAs grouped with Wargs can see each freep and organized attack or trap

Fun fact: Wargs get tracked as well, even with hips active....




Burgs grouped with wargs can see each creep and organise an attack or trap as well. What's your point? A group SHOULD win against a solo player, unless the group isn't very good.

Also, you won't have any problems getting away as a burg, just pop bloody Knives Out instead of TnG, kill yourself a BA or warg, Hips, run at FULL SPEED in a direction no one's going, re-stealth if tracked and if attacked again, HIPS! Only an organised gank squad can kill a burglar who doesn't want to be killed.

A warg on the other hand, can be dropped from full morale to zero morale in 1 seconds and you won't be able to hips. ^^ Also, a warg will still have slow on him when he hipses plus dots, and those two are a poor combination for the warg. Unless he has sprint, he is fekked.


Burgs = pwn. you need to get better gear and get more experience, burg is a tough class to play, I play one myself and am certainly no pro burglar. ^^

Originally Posted by Alakin93

Veren, u forgot too that BA's skill has 25% additional evade chance against ranged even :P

What more should I get? I have orthanc gear and r13-14 virtues, 8k tact mitigation now and u6/orthanc/draig jewels. If you tell me how to get U7 jewels or smth better than I can say u are right. But my equip is really good since I play only this char since 2 years (the cappy I use very rarely and that one is bad equipped), so definitely I dont need equipment or new things (except a first ager but think just a few have it and most of the hunters play with a 2nd agers lol). My HS does 3-4k on a normal warg and 1.8k on stiffer (ok, with 3 rows of buffs but still 1.9k). It does more damage on reaver really lol. Since we play always with the same fellows I think they can even prove that :P

Get 10k tactical....


Also, if you do 3-4k HS on normal wargs, you're doing something wrong. We got 4k armour ffs. ^^ (in non-Flayer mode) There's hunters one-shotting creeps out there. Boost your dmg! boost your mitigations! Practice!

Originally Posted by Natako

Normal warg surely you mean a new warg with no audacity. Seriously 1.9k on a warg that is probably at rank7 aud is fine why should it be more? Not like HS is all you have and tbh i think delo has hit me for more then that. Last week i got hit with a blood arrow or what ever it is called for 3k i think well 2 or 3 k not sure anymore

Yeah meant that ofc, like a npc xD
Well a crit of blood arrow can do more damage than a HS, devastating one is 5-8k :P But well takes away 500 morale

P.S. 14k wargs with buffs I meant ofc, and I see pretty many of them with 13-14k over rank 8. Buffs or perks, still 14k it is :P

Originally Posted by stoffi

Your cd is a hell of a lot shorter, not to mention you can do it twice and you got Knives Out x2, which sometimes is a better skill.

So, you got 4 "moving targets". And a lot of freeps seem to use p2w, so the odds are high that you will be tracking on your burg as well.

And no, a BA doesn't have a lot of friendly wargs around. That's the same as saying a burg has loads of friendly freeps around. sometimes, yes. Sometimes, no. It is not a skill, it situational and has NOTHING to do with this.

You forget, they get hips on a 10 minute CD, wargs is on 5 minutes. Burg can reset the CD, but reavers have the same skill with only a 10 minute cooldown. Burgs can use touch and go every 5 minutes, again, 30 minute CD to reset it.

Another thing, find footing will work only if they're stunned, and even then, warg skills can't be block, parry or evaded. Though most smart players don't even stun a burg. From what I've seen after U6 with warg changes and audacity, hunters and burgs are the easiest now.

And about pay to win, loads of creeps do it. *cough* shak *cough* You don't notice so much when you don't target creeps, but when you're healing, you notice as they're dying they often pop a store brand/pot. It isn't just freeps who do this.

This thread...

Makes my brain hurt.

Originally Posted by Squelcher

This thread...

Makes my brain hurt.

What brain we all know uruk brains are inferior to all other races espcially wargs

Originally Posted by Natako

What brain we all know uruk brains are inferior to all other races espcially wargs

Must've been difficult to type that in between sessions of licking yourself.

Originally Posted by Thaberg

You forget, they get hips on a 10 minute CD, wargs is on 5 minutes. Burg can reset the CD, but reavers have the same skill with only a 10 minute cooldown. Burgs can use touch and go every 5 minutes, again, 30 minute CD to reset it.

Another thing, find footing will work only if they're stunned, and even then, warg skills can't be block, parry or evaded. Though most smart players don't even stun a burg. From what I've seen after U6 with warg changes and audacity, hunters and burgs are the easiest now.

And about pay to win, loads of creeps do it. *cough* shak *cough* You don't notice so much when you don't target creeps, but when you're healing, you notice as they're dying they often pop a store brand/pot. It isn't just freeps who do this.

Find footing, forgot about that! 3 TnGs!


Burgs have 5 min hips as well. ^^ (unless that's changed with RoI ofc) I always used that legacy and every other pvp burg did as well.


Only 4 warg skills cant be avoided if in Shadow, but then we're squishy. A decent burg will still beat the warg, and use KO ffs. Burgs use TnG constantly but with the latest changes, KO is much better vs shadow wargs.

Vs flayer wargs, well, only 2 skills break TnG and they got cds.

You should still win.

Store pots, I don't see a lot of creeps run around with all those buffs as we see certain freeps run around with. I don't use store pots.

Originally Posted by stoffi

Find footing, forgot about that! 3 TnGs!


Burgs have 5 min hips as well. ^^ (unless that's changed with RoI ofc) I always used that legacy and every other pvp burg did as well.


Only 4 warg skills cant be avoided if in Shadow, but then we're squishy. A decent burg will still beat the warg, and use KO ffs. Burgs use TnG constantly but with the latest changes, KO is much better vs shadow wargs.

Vs flayer wargs, well, only 2 skills break TnG and they got cds.

You should still win.

Store pots, I don't see a lot of creeps run around with all those buffs as we see certain freeps run around with. I don't use store pots.

I'm not accusing anyone of using store items, neither am I saying it's wrong. However, from playing freep and healing, you tend to notice creeps also use store items. And as far as I know, the legacy reduces hips to 7 minutes CD, unless there is a better one since I last played.

You can't deny though, burg is a hard class to play and only the very best ones will win. Tricks, trick removals, stuns, gambles, you need to know what to use, when to use them, and there are that many it's an extremely hard class to play, compared to most classes. But still, I'll agree they have too many escape or iwin skills.