Hey i'm comin' back from a big hiatus and considering rollin up a Lore Master, but was wonderin what you do in party and raid situations. They're listed support, but Iv'e heard a few people say they DPS in raids. Was wonderin' if a few busy LMs could take time out of their schedules to help fill in a few gaps for me, thanks in advance!
A lot of times you will see LMs DPSing in raids. This is pretty common in Draigoch (where the run is a DPS race and there's nothing really to debuff) or skirmish raids (where there is stuff to debuff, but the content is just faceroll easy).
The time you'll most often see a LM traited Ancient Master is for Tower of Orthanc, the most recent 12-man content. Almost always they'll be traited yellow (or blue for kicks) for the trash, and for most bosses it's really nice (or downright essential) to have at least one debuffing LM for the boss. Occasionally though, depending on the makeup of the group, you may do the same thing a lot of LMs did for Disease wing in Ost Dunhoth, which would be traiting yellow for the trash pulls, and then retraiting for DPS on the boss. This is most common on the Fire & Frost wing of ToO.
The situation is, there are two possible ways in which LMs are needed in a group......one is just another dps with added utilities of a support class, another is the actual support role we are meant to be....
Unfortunately, much content lately....even group content, is not tough enough to require us to be in the support class role....so the common general role is trait 5 reds, Sword & Staff, Ents and ISG and assist the group with the dps role... throw in some common debuffs (fire lore, wind lore, frost lore, SoP:C, Ancient Craft) and manage a few stray mobs here and there with some cc to avoid the adds getting to the healer/squishies.....not much of a tough thing....
The more tougher raids (like Tower of Orthanc) require us to trait carefully as the need is....for debuff-cc.....mostly I prefer the Ancient Master line with Force of Will with Harmony with Nature and Healer/Awareness of Body....allows us to keep full Blinding Flash duration to stun lock mobs and increase cc-debuff capabilities....mostly our jobs include stun locking specific mobs that the raid leader wants us to....debuffing mobs the tank is tanking or the dps is burning down.....locking down a bunch of adds if any need to be kept away from the main fight.....supplying power whenever necessary......curing wounds/diseases.....removing corruptions on bosses....and throw in some dps where it can be spared.....in short quite a lot to do.....and fun too
Not a whole lot to add here as it's already been mostly covered. In short, ToO is really the only place where our real role of debuff/cc/support is needed. You can certainly fill this role in other places, but it's not as beneficial. In a raid like ToO you will always be busy, and I think it's the most fun one can have in this game. That's subjective of course, but I really think it's a great role to play, and helps you understand some of the intricacies of the game better.
The situation is, there are two possible ways in which LMs are needed in a group......one is just another dps with added utilities of a support class, another is the actual support role we are meant to be....
Unfortunately, much content lately....even group content, is not tough enough to require us to be in the support class role....so the common general role is trait 5 reds, Sword & Staff, Ents and ISG and assist the group with the dps role... throw in some common debuffs (fire lore, wind lore, frost lore, SoP:C, Ancient Craft) and manage a few stray mobs here and there with some cc to avoid the adds getting to the healer/squishies.....not much of a tough thing....
The more tougher raids (like Tower of Orthanc) require us to trait carefully as the need is....for debuff-cc.....mostly I prefer the Ancient Master line with Force of Will with Harmony with Nature and Healer/Awareness of Body....allows us to keep full Blinding Flash duration to stun lock mobs and increase cc-debuff capabilities....mostly our jobs include stun locking specific mobs that the raid leader wants us to....debuffing mobs the tank is tanking or the dps is burning down.....locking down a bunch of adds if any need to be kept away from the main fight.....supplying power whenever necessary......curing wounds/diseases.....removing corruptions on bosses....and throw in some dps where it can be spared.....in short quite a lot to do.....and fun too
See as long as i'm not DPSing the entire time I think I will enjoy it, I don't mind DPSing but the support role always appeals to me in games and i'm usually quite good at it, as long as my character keeps me busy and isn't a 3 step dance of DPS I can definitely enjoy the DPS too, but i'm wanting the class to be very busy and very support oriented, do you all think that LM will be a good fit for me under these conditions?
Yea dps of lore master can be fun but not so usefull.
The bad point is about healing too much low and debuff don't stack.
Atm one LM is enought in a raid 2 can be useless if you don't have 2 boos like F&F
debuffer become a too much loss of dps at last and aren't good, and atm other class can have CC like burg or hunter.
Anyway for shure you need a lore master for every end game for his debuff
See as long as i'm not DPSing the entire time I think I will enjoy it, I don't mind DPSing but the support role always appeals to me in games and i'm usually quite good at it, as long as my character keeps me busy and isn't a 3 step dance of DPS I can definitely enjoy the DPS too, but i'm wanting the class to be very busy and very support oriented, do you all think that LM will be a good fit for me under these conditions?
Yep indeed.....if you like being busy, if you like having a hundred things to juggle while playing, if you like versatility, this is definitely the class for you.....even being dps on this class is not as simple....and though I say dps is not as enjoyable as our primary support role, we DO manage to put out a really good performance there too....and even while dpsing, we're doing quite a lot of things..... But our support role is really where you can enjoy having a lot of stuff to do
Yep indeed.....if you like being busy, if you like having a hundred things to juggle while playing, if you like versatility, this is definitely the class for you.....even being dps on this class is not as simple....and though I say dps is not as enjoyable as our primary support role, we DO manage to put out a really good performance there too....and even while dpsing, we're doing quite a lot of things..... But our support role is really where you can enjoy having a lot of stuff to do
I have been considering a pure raid build for ToO and am interested in what other LMs think. I am the only LM in our raid group so its AM all the way for me. Given this I have been wondering about the value of Will vs survivability. I am considering a build where my Will would be significantly lower than I would normally have in a DPS build which also means my tactical mastery drops by half. Obviously this will effect my healing output, but beyond that if I do not have time to DPS much in a fight anyway is there any significant loss of taking this approach?
In this build my ICPR, max power, tactical mitigation, morale, resistances are all very decent and it makes me very survivable and my finesse is much higher to reduce chances of resists.
The build I am considering is based on a mix of the new EM sets (Restoration & Tradition) so I get the 2 and 3 bonuses from each.
Using jewellery I can bump my Will and tactical mastery up some but am wondering if there is really any need or if I am just as well going for survivability.
I do have a DPS build that I am happy with and can mix and match for different circumstances naturally, but I have just got to wondering about how useful high Will is for a pure support role.
Yes will is important for healingoutput, but it doesn't affect healing as much as dps.
Going for more morale, finesse and icpr is more important than tactical mastery in my opinion.
I think you're doing it right.
Honestly you don't need that much TM to cap outgoing healing. I don't know exact numbers, but I think it's around 27k. Could be wrong there, but the point is that you can have both. You don't need 12k morale, nor do you need 30k TM. I think 10k morale with buffs, with good mits is good enough for most ToO T2. You should be able to avoid damage in many cases, and where you can't you have the morale and mitigations to be able to take that hit or two.
You also have to look at how all this changing around of gear affects your power pool and icpr. You don't want to have 5k power or something, and minimal icpr. When DPS is going all out, and healers are having to keep up with huge damage, the LM is gonna be pumping out power constantly. Anyway, I don't think you need to go all out for morale/mitigation and ignore all else. You can have a good mix of both survivability and functionality.
I have been considering a pure raid build for ToO and am interested in what other LMs think. I am the only LM in our raid group so its AM all the way for me. Given this I have been wondering about the value of Will vs survivability. I am considering a build where my Will would be significantly lower than I would normally have in a DPS build which also means my tactical mastery drops by half. Obviously this will effect my healing output, but beyond that if I do not have time to DPS much in a fight anyway is there any significant loss of taking this approach?
In this build my ICPR, max power, tactical mitigation, morale, resistances are all very decent and it makes me very survivable and my finesse is much higher to reduce chances of resists.
I agree with pretty much everything Shadow21 said. The only thing to add is that your stat targets depend on where you are with gear and virtues. If you're well resourced, then I would definitely shoot for Shadow's numbers. But, if you're still working on things, then I'd prioritize morale, mitigations, and finesse over tactical mastery and will. As noted, however, don't sacrifice so much will that you have no power to share. I'd estimate 1300 being the minimum, with 1500 being safer, and 1800+ being more desired.
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I'd estimate 1300 being the minimum, with 1500 being safer, and 1800+ being more desired.
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@#ck me ragged!
I'm a bit over the bottom number, my traits and virtues are maxed as any long term toon would expect but I'm not loaded with the end game raid gear that the later two numbers suggest.
Assuming the OP is "building towards" then I guess that a combination of quest reward, normally available crafted gear and maybe the odd lucky teal here or there is the practical limit of attainability so perhaps what specific items should be looked for/crafted or bought/quest rewards taken?
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I'd estimate 1300 being the minimum, with 1500 being safer, and 1800+ being more desired.
>>>
@#ck me ragged!
I'm a bit over the bottom number, my traits and virtues are maxed as any long term toon would expect but I'm not loaded with the end game raid gear that the later two numbers suggest.
Assuming the OP is "building towards" then I guess that a combination of quest reward, normally available crafted gear and maybe the odd lucky teal here or there is the practical limit of attainability so perhaps what specific items should be looked for/crafted or bought/quest rewards taken?
So, I'm just going in the generic because I don't know what you currently have. Sorry if it's a bit simplistic sounding. For ToO, I don't think crafted armor will be enough. I suggest beginning with the Draigoch set.
Here are some items from 12 person skirmish raids that are full of will. This is a small - there are many others that are good too - but hopefully this is a place to start.
Pocket: Western Seas Navigation Chart
Wrist: Diamond Flecked Wristlet
Ear: Earring of the Mathom Tender
Hat: Hat of the Woundcloser
Neck: Necklace of the Gentle Healer
If you haven't already, get kindred with Dunland and Limelight. There are some nice things at the vendors. Also, see here for some items from Foundry, Roots and the Isengard 3-person instances. Seregechor from Foundry T2 drops quite often and it's got a nice balance of will and vitality. http://blarelius.host.allvatar.com/f...php?f=15&t=176
at last only important stat is finesse.
Vit and tactical defence in ortancare good.
Will isn't so important, the set give enought, at last lore master don't need so much the sharing of power atm and his damage is really low, the only important thing is don't miss your debuff or stun.
All this having been said, it's important to be survivable enough that you're not being knocked flat the moment something looks in your general direction. I was with a Loremaster (the name eludes me at the moment) in the Foundry, and nothing gives your healer a heart attack more than a player who consistently gets defeated and leaves them going "Am I doing something wrong here?"
Basically as far as Orthanc goes I don't think I will be building for Will at all. Vitality / morale, mitigations, ICPR will take priority and naturally I will be keeping an eye on my max power to ensure it doesn't drop too low.
Will be awhile until I get my build finished but when I do perhaps I will post some feedback on how it feels.
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Originally Posted by silverblade5445
The situation is, there are two possible ways in which LMs are needed in a group......one is just another dps with added utilities of a support class, another is the actual support role we are meant to be....
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