Thread: Galadriel is too short

According to the lorebook:

Originally Posted by lorebook

Galadriel was also the tallest of all Elven-women...

So why is my elf-woman champion taller than her?



Bad posture is no excuse!

Someone screwed up!

You're in heels?

You're standing straighter than Galadriel, that's why.

Did you sneak some Ent-Draught when Quickbeam wasn't looking?

Originally Posted by Kingault

You're standing straighter than Galadriel, that's why.

Nope. Even taking the slight posture difference to account, in a slight slouch Galadriel should be at least equal height to the average elven model. The posture also isn't significantly different to cause Galadriel to be a third of a head shorter. Fortunately though it would take a dev approximately 5 minutes to tweak the character model's scaling to be accurate.

Galadriel is a nicotine addict. Remember kids, don't smoke, it stunts your growth!

You wanna talk short... go stand next to Aragorn sometime. Dude's gotta be 5'6. :/ He's Dunedain for crying out loud! D:

Originally Posted by dietlbomb

According to the lorebook:

Originally Posted by lorebook

Galadriel was also the tallest of all Elven-women...

I wouldn't take the LOTRO Lorebook to be the absolute truth in terms of Tolkien's mythology. It is far better to see what Tolkien actually wrote:

Very tall they were, and the Lady no less than the Lord; and they were grave and beautiful. They were clad wholly in white; and the hair of the Lady was of deep gold, and the hair of th Lord Celeborn was of silver long and bright; but no sign of age was upon them, unless it were in the depths of their eyes; for these were keen as lances in the starlight, and yet profound, the wells of deep memory.

Tolkien, J.R.R. 'The Mirror of Galadriel'. The Fellowship of the Ring, volume I of The Lord of the Rings.

Nowhere in Tolkien's novel does it state that Galadriel was the tallest of all Elven-women. As far as I know it is not stated that she is the tallest Elf-woman in ANY of Tolkien's writings, only that she was "very tall". The brief description given in The Silmarillion--

A sister they had, Galadriel, most beautiful of all the house of Finwë; her hair was lit with gold as though it had caught in a mesh of radiance of Lauelin.

--doesn't even mention her stature, in contrast to the previous paragraph describing Aredhel the White, the daughter of Fingolfin:

when she was grown to full stature and beauty she was tall and strong

Tolkien, J.R.R. (author). Tolkien, Christopher (editor). 'Of Eldamar'. The Silmarillion.

Later Galadriel is described as "the mightiest and fairest of all Elves that remained in Middle-earth" ('Of the Rings of Power and the Third Age') but again, no mention is made of her stature.

So as long as Galadriel and Celeborn are of equal height, I don't think that we can quibble too much. (Remember, too, the "very tall" description is from the point of view of Frodo, who presumably wrote this portion of The Redbook of Westmarch.)

Feybobiam, however, has a point about Aragorn. He is described in Tolkien's novel as being the tallest of the Fellowship, only slightly taller than Boromir. We also know that he was thin and lanky, whereas Boromir was more muscular.

That being said, it is my observation that the developers have made only a cursory effort to make things the proper height, particularly mobs. Orcs are generally taller than they should be, particularly so-called "boss mobs" who are of greater stature to denote their relative power. I think we can only expect so much authenticity in a game, which has to make many concessions to game-play and such.

Originally Posted by dietlbomb

According to the lorebook:


So why is my elf-woman champion taller than her?

Thank you for reporting this. In the interest of lore compliance, Turbine will now delete your character.


...

Or perhaps not.

Sorry Oldbadgerbrock, but you've missed something wrong Tolkien's writings:

From Unfinished Tales, Disaster of the Gladden Fields:

"The Eldar of the Elder Days were also very tall. Galadriel, 'the tallest of all the women of the Eldar of whom tales tell;, was said to be man-high, but it is noted 'according to the measure of the Dunedain and the men of old', indicating a height of about six feet four inches."

Galadriel should be much taller.

I was just finishing the latest epic yesterday and was thinking it was odd that I was looking down on her. Great post

"Short people need a reason to live, they have little hands, little eyes...."

Sorry, had a 70's flashback......

Originally Posted by Fearnley

Sorry Oldbadgerbrock, but you've missed something wrong Tolkien's writings:

From Unfinished Tales, Disaster of the Gladden Fields:

"The Eldar of the Elder Days were also very tall. Galadriel, 'the tallest of all the women of the Eldar of whom tales tell;, was said to be man-high, but it is noted 'according to the measure of the Dunedain and the men of old', indicating a height of about six feet four inches."

Galadriel should be much taller.

^^ This. And besides: as our characters are supposed to be Silvan Elves (or so Turbine said), they shouldn't even be as tall as the typical Noldo, let alone Galadriel. Legolas wasn't as tall as she was, and he was at least half Sindarin.

It's a typical Tolkien thing: the more extraordinary a people are supposed to be, the taller and better-looking they tend to be. Hence why the Numenoreans were extraordinarily tall, for example. The same thinking applied to when Maiar appeared in Elf-like form but weren't hiding their power, they'd be really tall (taller than any Elf).

i wonder if it's possible that turbine tweaked the player models a bit and made them taller, but left the NPCs as is...

Originally Posted by Feybobiam

You wanna talk short... go stand next to Aragorn sometime. Dude's gotta be 5'6. :/ He's Dunedain for crying out loud! D:

Indeed, he's the direct descendent and heir of Elendil the Tall! Although, when disguised as Strider, he is able to hide his true stature somehow. For example, Frodo notices Aragorn's stature transform when they approach the Argonath and Aragorn begins to wax eloquent.

I'm more concerned with how she can stand that head of hair. I mean seriously, her hair is almost as big as she is. As someone with very thick, long-ish hair, I often get headaches from the weight of it. Poor Galadriel.

This is only marginally related, but I was laughing the other day because my Hobbit lass burglar is taller than Sam, Merry, and Pippin.

Guess they haven't had their ent draught yet...lol

Galadriel was also the tallest of all Elven-women...

Maybe she's getting shorter in her old age...

She’s shorter now because she decided to go into the West and remain Galadriel. So, naturally she is diminished.

You should have tried to measure yourself against her when Frodo offered her the Ring. Then you woulda seen a thing or two. . . .

Originally Posted by oldbadgerbrock

I wouldn't take the LOTRO Lorebook to be the absolute truth in terms of Tolkien's mythology. It is far better to see what Tolkien actually wrote:

Tolkien, J.R.R. 'The Mirror of Galadriel'. The Fellowship of the Ring, volume I of The Lord of the Rings.

Nowhere in Tolkien's novel does it state that Galadriel was the tallest of all Elven-women. As far as I know it is not stated that she is the tallest Elf-woman in ANY of Tolkien's writings, only that she was "very tall". The brief description given in The Silmarillion--



--doesn't even mention her stature, in contrast to the previous paragraph describing Aredhel the White, the daughter of Fingolfin:

Tolkien, J.R.R. (author). Tolkien, Christopher (editor). 'Of Eldamar'. The Silmarillion.

Later Galadriel is described as "the mightiest and fairest of all Elves that remained in Middle-earth" ('Of the Rings of Power and the Third Age') but again, no mention is made of her stature.

So as long as Galadriel and Celeborn are of equal height, I don't think that we can quibble too much. (Remember, too, the "very tall" description is from the point of view of Frodo, who presumably wrote this portion of The Redbook of Westmarch.)

so, from what you posted, they messed up her hair more than her height (awesome pun intended!)

in that text they really seem to push her hair as GOLD, not yellow or blonde. seems they messed that one up in the movie and ingame.


edit: i looked at the pic again and she even has gold "clips" in her hair. her hair is NOT gold. break out the pitchforks!

Originally Posted by Fearnley

Sorry Oldbadgerbrock, but you've missed something wrong Tolkien's writings:

From Unfinished Tales, Disaster of the Gladden Fields:

"The Eldar of the Elder Days were also very tall. Galadriel, 'the tallest of all the women of the Eldar of whom tales tell;, was said to be man-high, but it is noted 'according to the measure of the Dunedain and the men of old', indicating a height of about six feet four inches."

Galadriel should be much taller.

The Unfinished Tales is unlicensed work that Turbine is forbidden to use in their game. Unless this information is in the licensed work, Turbine has to avoid any game implementation that would suggest that Turbine stole from from Chris Tolkien or the Tolkien Estate.

If we are in the situation where the Unfinished Tales say Galadriel is the tallest Elf female. The licensed work is silent. Turbine has make to Galadriel shorter than some of the other elves.

I just wanna know why she stands so ungracefully with those legs so far apart...

What is she hiding between them??

Originally Posted by paperslug

I just wanna know why she stands so ungracefully with those legs so far apart...

What is she hiding between them??

THIS!

I absolutely LOATHE the posture on Elf NPCs, both female and male.

When I started playing, my biggest ambition was to get to Lorien, linger in Caras Galadhon and, most of all, I wanted to see Galadriel. I was not disappointed with the city, but I can not say the same about the NPCs... so much care put into Caras Galadhon and so little effort put into its inhabitants.

Originally Posted by Elemiire

Originally Posted by paperslug

I just wanna know why she stands so ungracefully with those legs so far apart...

What is she hiding between them??

THIS!

Perhaps this?

Originally Posted by Fionnuala

I'm more concerned with how she can stand that head of hair. I mean seriously, her hair is almost as big as she is. As someone with very thick, long-ish hair, I often get headaches from the weight of it. Poor Galadriel.

Short and long hair is like cousin itt

Originally Posted by Nymphonic

"Short people need a reason to live, they have little hands, little eyes...."

Sorry, had a 70's flashback......

lol, thank you for a good chuckle

Dating ourselves a bit though

Originally Posted by Hikerdude2010

Maybe she's getting shorter in her old age...

I was thinking the same thing. As we know she is a very, very old elf dudette who very likely has been suffering osteoporosis as her skeletal bone density has decreased. Living under those trees probably hasnt helped either as anyone who walks in the forest has to bend down to avoid low lying branches. Do that enough times and you start to become hunched down.

Hmm interesting thread.....

Until now before reading about all the quotes from the books in this thread (I havent read unfinished tales yet) I used to think Cirdan was the tallest of all the elves.....or is it that Galadriel was the tallest -female- elf?

Anyhoo, despite all the theories, it is quite evident that the in-game Galadriel model could use being a lil taller.....not only as compared to elven characters, she -feels- not so tall even compared to the race of men.....which she should definitely be coz none of us are as tall as the legendary Numenorians and Galadriel was as tall as them.....obviously I havent checked it explicitely as the OP has, but I think my man loremaster is not as short compared to Galadriel (and Celeborn) as he should be.....

Originally Posted by Yula_the_Mighty

The Unfinished Tales is unlicensed work that Turbine is forbidden to use in their game. Unless this information is in the licensed work, Turbine has to avoid any game implementation that would suggest that Turbine stole from from Chris Tolkien or the Tolkien Estate.

If we are in the situation where the Unfinished Tales say Galadriel is the tallest Elf female. The licensed work is silent. Turbine has make to Galadriel shorter than some of the other elves.

Er.....just because they dont have the license to that content doesnt mean they cant get lore facts right from it.....because if that is the case, we cant have goblin town or the deed with bilbo losing his buttons because its not actually mentioned nor described in detail in the content that Turbine does have license to (as far as I recall)......and neither do I remember the Lord of the Rings books mentioning about Bullroarer Took and the origin of golf? (its been a while since I read the books so someone correct me on this if I am wrong).....

They might not have the license to that content to include stories from it, but I'm pretty sure they can refer to it for facts....

Originally Posted by silverblade5445

Hmm interesting thread.....
is it that Galadriel was the tallest -female- elf?

"Her mother-name was Nerwen ("man-maiden"), and she grew to be tall beyond the measure even of the women of the Noldor."

note: copied this from a U.Tales pdf english version it fits with my original Unfinished Tales book copy (in spanish).

/edit

Also from: U. tales. Appendix. Númenórean Linear Measures

"The Eldar of the Elder Days were also very tall. Galadriel, "the tallest of all the women of the Eldar of whom tales tell," was said to be man-high, but it is noted "according to the measure of the Dúnedain and the men of old," indicating a height of about six feet four inches."

Originally Posted by Fearnley

Sorry Oldbadgerbrock, but you've missed something wrong Tolkien's writings:

From Unfinished Tales, Disaster of the Gladden Fields:

"The Eldar of the Elder Days were also very tall. Galadriel, 'the tallest of all the women of the Eldar of whom tales tell;, was said to be man-high, but it is noted 'according to the measure of the Dunedain and the men of old', indicating a height of about six feet four inches."

Note that it says "of whom tales tell". Our characters aren't in Tolkien's tales.

Seriously, Unfinished Tales is not considered canon, particularly in regards to Galadriel and Celeborn where several different versions of their history is given, one having them met in Aman and coming to Middle-earth after the Kinslaying at Alqualondë in contrast to the version in the published Silmarillion where they met in Doriath. There are also various versions of when they came to reside in Laurelindorenan, later to be known as Lothlórien. As Christopher Tolkien wrote:

There is no part of the history of Middle-earth more full of problems than the story of Galadriel and Celeborn, and it must be admitted that there are severe inconsistencies "embedded in the traditions"

Tolkien, J.R.R. (author). Tolkien, Christopher (editor). 'The History of Galadriel and Celeborn'. Unfinished Tales.

For this reason I did not check UT for references to Galadriel's height.

Originally Posted by Radhruin_EU

And besides: as our characters are supposed to be Silvan Elves (or so Turbine said), they shouldn't even be as tall as the typical Noldo, let alone Galadriel. Legolas wasn't as tall as she was, and he was at least half Sindarin.

I don't recall any comparisons of Galadriel's and Legolas' stature. Can you provide a quotation to support your assertion? Or is that just an assumption based on their ethnicity? Galadriel was actually only 1/4 Noldo (fom her paternal grandfather Finwë). She was also 1/4 Vanya (from her paternal grandmother Indis) and 1/2 Teler (from her mother Eärwen). The Teleri who remained in Beleriand became known as the Sindar. Thingol, a Sinda, was the tallest of all Elves. Celeborn was close kin to him. (Grandnephew according to some sources.)

On a subject regarding Galadriel, can we get a new voice actor for her? I cringe every time I hear that terribly fake, upper-class english accent.

Originally Posted by Dorothir

On a subject regarding Galadriel, can we get a new voice actor for her? I cringe every time I hear that terribly fake, upper-class english accent.

No ... Sarumans voice sounds way more ridiculous.

Originally Posted by Zombielord

No ... Sarumans voice sounds way more ridiculous.

Come to think of it, loads of voices in this game sound ridiculous. Maybe it would have cost them too much to hire people with real british accents...

Originally Posted by oldbadgerbrock

I don't recall any comparisons of Galadriel's and Legolas' stature. Can you provide a quotation to support your assertion? Or is that just an assumption based on their ethnicity? Galadriel was actually only 1/4 Noldo (fom her paternal grandfather Finwë). She was also 1/4 Vanya (from her paternal grandmother Indis) and 1/2 Teler (from her mother Eärwen). The Teleri who remained in Beleriand became known as the Sindar. Thingol, a Sinda, was the tallest of all Elves. Celeborn was close kin to him. (Grandnephew according to some sources.)

Both Aragorn and Boromir were apparently somewhat taller than Legolas: 'Aragorn was the tallest of the Company, but Boromir, little less in height, was broader and heavier in build.' (The Ring Goes South). Now, Aragorn was apparently six foot six (I remember reading that somewhere, it's probably in one of the letters); personally, I imagine Boromir being six foot four or so (but really built with it) and so Legolas would likely have been a bit over six feet tall at most. Galadriel was 'very tall', and 'no less tall' than Celeborn and that tallies with that UT figure of six foot four. It's certainly necessary to take UT with a pinch of salt but provided it doesn't disagree with what's said elsewhere, then it's okay to take it as a guide.

Tolkien never describes Legolas as 'very tall', so far as I recall. Just tall. And as I said, the more exalted people tended to be (be it Elves or Numenoreans), the taller and more fair they were described as being, and Galadriel was not only of far more exalted ancestry than Legolas but had been born in Valinor. It's no hardship for Legolas to be shorter than her, she's meant to be truly exceptional.

Originally Posted by LetsDance

Galadriel is a nicotine addict. Remember kids, don't smoke, it stunts your growth!

One does not simply give up pipe wede

You know, i never wondered why she is so short.
But what the heck is from with her legs? Why does she spread them like this and walk like granma?

Originally Posted by Zombielord

No ... Sarumans voice sounds way more ridiculous.

Actually I love Saruman's voiceover in the game.....it is quite suitable.....or maybe its just because of hearing him say his dialogue at every Orthanc wing, I've begun to like it.....his voice is quite like it should be - hypnotic.....imo atleast but guess its all about opinion....

And also there is much criticism about this point because of the high standards that Christopher Lee set, that most other voiceovers seems weak in comparison.....

Originally Posted by landy

Why does she spread them like this and walk like granma?

Well, she is something like fourteen thousand years old (or whatever)