Thread: Hunter: time to get something back that you took a long time ago ^^

I think after all these years, Hunters should get their DF back.
if we look at all the skills other classes have to get out of a fight, and sometimes have more then one that it is pretty easy to figure out the hunter has no such thing.

for example i find Warg sprint far more annoying then DF, less cd big speed boost and for 15-20??

so for this reason i was thinking that hunters deserve to get one of their skills back in the ettens ( incombat ) like in SoA.

regards.

/signed

Its on a 30min cool down which is reasonable. If any freep class deserves to be thrown a bone its Hunters

Not happening

/notsigned

I think hunters have a legitimate gripe about not having the panic buttons of other classes in pvp... but there has to be a trade off for the high DPS from maximum range, with the ability to stealth.

I don't think DF is the answer.

Edit: Just want to clarify I'm not against hunters getting something, they definitely deserve a perk thrown their way.

Originally Posted by Rogbarz

if i can ask, why dont you want this to happen ?
just out of intrest.

I lol'd.

Then i had to lengthen the reply to at least 10 charecters

Originally Posted by apb8808

I think hunters have a legitimate gripe about not having the panic buttons of other classes in pvp... but there has to be a trade off for the high DPS from maximum range, with the ability to stealth.

I don't think DF is the answer.

woops so your edit abit late.

but yes if not df, they should get something els atleast ^^

To the OP what do you consider our BA panic button? Skirmisher + MT? We don't have a way to exit combat either. If given to hunters also allow a similar skill for BAs.

This will probably seem like a great idea for maybe the first couple hours, and then when you can no longer kill hunters because they hide behind their CD, you will be back here complaining.

Originally Posted by Supersomeone

This will probably seem like a great idea for maybe the first couple hours, and then when you can no longer kill hunters because they hide behind their CD, you will be back here complaining.

some might do this aye, but why do wargs have a sprint for 20 sec and restealth ? i have seen wargs waiting for cd's also.
and they are ALOT shorter
no offence though, but you have to look at both sides always

Originally Posted by Tharadin

To the OP what do you consider our BA panic button? Skirmisher + MT? We don't have a way to exit combat either. If given to hunters also allow a similar skill for BAs.

well i play ba myself, and i find 30 sec MT abit to long tbh
i would be happy if hunters got a 15 sec one and the ba had a 15 sec one.
but ofc nothing can be as we want it ^^

With the speed this thread is going soon everyone from both sides will want an DF incombat..

./Notsigned btw, that skill is just purely made for rating hugging unlike other "Espace" skills where after you hitted them you can still try to finish your opponent off

Seems to me someone wants a Get out of jail free card for their hunter.

Originally Posted by Supersomeone

This will probably seem like a great idea for maybe the first couple hours, and then when you can no longer kill hunters because they hide behind their CD, you will be back here complaining.

People do it all the time. Look at Warg packs. There is a reason why warg packs moking breaks always last 10m. Or 7 when traited, for these impatient ones. Goes freepside as well. I do not usually move out of GV either when NH and BH are on (short) CDs.

Yet DF was a useless skill. Just like using Dying Rage to deny points. Now who cares whether the Warg Pack gets a shared 15 points from me? Why would I deny someone who had the decency to not run away from a 1vs1 and beating me a whole 120 points? And then a CD of 30 minutes? Great. No, no, no. Make it useful, make it a veritable in combat skill, as i proposed before a five second anti-slow sprint with a CD of 30 seconds.
But then I rather see a Hunter's survivability by actually foreseeing fights. I.e. Make heightened senses, instant, inherit, usable while mounted. So I can actually see what might happen in 20-30s. Isn't this what hunters do?
Also I do not see why we can not be used as scouts, Make Find the path work mounted as well or in-combat. I liked the way the marksman class worked in Rift. There you had the proposes anti-cc sprint with a low CD as well as building up constant speed buffs, while using your standard skills. For full DMG you still had to stand still, but you were moving about with about 120% at all times.
I just do not see why the hunter needs to be the most immobile class in the game, while being the one that is also always so close to breaking.

Originally Posted by Supersomeone

This will probably seem like a great idea for maybe the first couple hours, and then when you can no longer kill hunters because they hide behind their CD, you will be back here complaining.

Everyone uses cool downs. Hunters are a toon who have one of their skills blocked in the moors. It’s ridiculous. I’d agree with your point if it was a 5 min cool down (like other toons skills) but a 30 min cool down isn’t unreasonable.

I’d rather they have one of their existing skills turned back on then have more bubbles or a sprint.

Originally Posted by Tharadin

To the OP what do you consider our BA panic button? Skirmisher + MT? We don't have a way to exit combat either. If given to hunters also allow a similar skill for BAs.

So you have a skill that means you will evade AT LEAST 75% of my attacks for a WHOLE 30 seconds (bare in mind any fight, win or lose, with a hunter is normally over in 20 seconds) and that's not a panic button?



.. HA!

BA skill MT does not work against tac. damage keep that in mind

Personally, I hate ranged classes because their edge relies on putting distance between you and your target. Got to laugh at the ones made during the 1shot era's tho. Best option I can see is give hunters more melee skills.

DF is not the answer no matter the cd unless it changed to a hips and not a teleport.

I had a post somewhere where I discussed my reasoning for disagreeing with this (I think it was probably in a thread QQing about DR a while back), but I didn't have the desire to dig through a bunch of old posts and threads just to quote it here.

Anyway, I still say a big fat no to this. DF is unlike any other escape skill in this game. A DoT can still pop a warg out of Disappear or a burg out of HiPS once their 10s is up, CC can still stop a Sprinting warg/guard/champ in it's tracks, etc etc. Hunters could use some better survivability skills, but re-enabling DF in the 'Moors is, by far, not the answer.

Originally Posted by ssSteele

Personally, I hate ranged classes because their edge relies on putting distance between you and your target. Got to laugh at the ones made during the 1shot era's tho. Best option I can see is give hunters more melee skills.

DF is not the answer no matter the cd unless it changed to a hips and not a teleport.

Im cool with it being changed, id sign on to that. Problem here is upgrades have happened to freeps and creeps alike hunters have got really nothing. So if turbine cant get their poop together and acknowledge hunters need something (how about making press onward instant?) then its legit (IMHO) for hunters to ask for one of their skills they have in the rest of the game be turned on.

Give them something, because the slope can shift very quickly. One could envision a time when the hunter community decides to QQ enough and they start asking for creep nerf’s because they haven’t gotten more survivability.

Careful what you wish for.

Thor... you and I have had this discussion before .. and I think we agree on most issues .. but you know I've said it before and I'll say it again.. Hunters are easy Infamy (commendations) and no one wants to see their "free lunch" get taken away :P

Originally Posted by haroldhnicholos

BA skill MT does not work against tac. damage keep that in mind

peeb ..seriously .. stick to warg and guardian issues :P

Originally Posted by Nuth_KM

Thor... you and I have had this discussion before .. and I think we agree on most issues .. but you know I've said it before and I'll say it again.. Hunters are easy Infamy (commendations) and no one wants to see their "free lunch" get taken away :P

We have, but I think most creeps recognize Hunters have been given the shaft (least the ones I observe on the forums and in OOC). So its not unreasonable for a hunter to ask for one of his skills to be turned on when he isnt getting anything else from the dev.

Meantime everyone else is getting upgraded. The logic is spot on, the skill and its application in the moors may suck but the logic is there, hence my support. Now if turbine were to offer an alternative? I’d be up for that.

Pasted over from my accidental thread starter

1. DF is a 100% pure escape skill with no realistic possibility of using it for offensive purposes.

2. A large portion of the hunter community (pvp) DFed even when there was a remote chance of losing to protect
their stars.

3. DF used to be 1hr CD. Today it can be legacied down to 20 min.

4. Other classes escape skill can be ans are frequently used for offensive purposes.
A. Sprint used to chase down
B. Dissapear used to repounce
C. DR Used to reDS and finish off target
D. HIPS used to SS
E. Bubble used to get back into the fight (both sides)
F. MT used ti survive the melee/hunter zerg long enough to finish off the RK hiding in the middle of the group.
G. Flop... no description required
H. Hobbit burg flop to out of combat stealth: can be popped with well timed AOE.

5. DF allows for hunters to make major mistakes and not pay the price.

6. I remember some hunters that DFed during a 1v1.

7. See #2

8. Alot of hunters usually are the first to abandon the fight and run away anyways.

I would be cool if hunters got somthing like MT. They deserve somthing but don't bring DF back to PVP.

Desperate flight does not help the hunter all its use does is deny infamy to creeps. Temporary buffs to health, evade and speed are one thing, being able to escape with impunity like hips or what you are proposing is another. Escape skills should still allow enemies an opportunity to win.

Originally Posted by Thorgrum

/signed

Its on a 30min cool down which is reasonable. If any freep class deserves to be thrown a bone its Hunters

There is a legacy for it.


The skill is stupid in PvP. It sends you to the rez circle either way, it is only a griefing mechanism. Not signed.

/notsigned

The difference between DF and any other classes "get out of jail free" buttons (and the reason it should not be returned to in-combat in its current state) is that DF is a GUARANTEED escape skill. Everything else only gives you a chance to escape. You have no idea how many times I've hit HIPS only to have a hunter kill be because of stupid homing arrows... or the times that I hit sprint, but died to massive incurable freep dots (lms, I'm looking at you), or even the times where I've hit HIPS and pets/npcs have continued to chase me, thus leading the freeps straight to me.

I'm not against hunters being thrown a bone, heck I think they should, but it's also not like hunters don't have ANY escape skills. There's always slowing cut (-50% run speed) + fleetness (+10% run speed) and others. Hunters can even barbed arrow kite if they have the slow on it and unless a warg pops sprint (not sure about other classes), you're going to die.

Some kind of in combat stealth for hunters would be an interesting choice of utility skill. 3-5s in combat stealth that doesn't break while attacking on a 2-5m cd may sound op but through testing and all could be a step in the right direction. As a r12 warg w/ r7 audacity hunters are boring to the point I'm like a cat playing with his meal before the kill. That is the pattern for this game hunters are food, hunters are 1shooters, repeat.

Hunters need a panic button. DF may not be the answer, but we need SOMETHING - perhaps induction-free Press Onward, or movable stealth. At the moment I am free infamy for creeps, so I do not go into the moors. That simple.

Originally Posted by PhantomPunkk

There is a legacy for it.


The skill is stupid in PvP. It sends you to the rez circle either way, it is only a griefing mechanism. Not signed.

So what if there is a legacy for it? A battle mage player telling me a skill is "stupid in PvP" is good stuff though, thanks you genuinely made me lol.

The problem is they have been given nothing and just about every other class in the moors has had a survival upgrade including creeps. Its perfectly logical for hunters to want their full skill set, you give them nothing why shouldnt they ask for somethign they already have?

Maybe we can give them some bubbles and some self heals? What say you battle mage?

Comparing DF to a Warg's sprint is a joke. Warg's don't sit at the back of a zerg pew pewing they are solely a melee class and need the ability to catch prey to do some damage. So Sprint is nothing like DF.

I'm actually all in favour of their being less escape skills or at least a major trade-off for using them. I regularly have champs and grds run from my creeps in a 1v1 when they think they might lose... and I don't blame them... but I do think any in combat Sprint should come at a major cost... say +300% damage to attacks from behind... ...no evade from behind... and/or in-combat Sprints negate any DR you have built up.

On the plus side in combat Sprints could also come with a melee damage increase... after all you are moving faster so your hits should be harder.

Still, back on topic. /notsigned

Hunters do need an escape skill.

Tree Climb!

Just like spiders burrow, hunters should animate growing a tree and climbing up in it.

Originally Posted by Dyfrin

Hunters do need an escape skill.

Tree Climb!

Just like spiders burrow, hunters should animate growing a tree and climbing up in it.

+rep However I fear Bruce Lee could still handle tree climbing hunters.

Nearly R14 on my hunter and the last thing I want is DF restored to how it was. I don't want a skill that removes me from fights entirely. I want a skill that aids me in killing my enemy. I want help killing or surviving.


I don't want help running away, I want to stand and put up a decent fight.

/notsigned

Escape skills are absurd for a place where you come to FIGHT. Ask for a skill to stay longer in combat, not to run away from it. And if you're getting zerged, get over it, everyone gets zerged sometimes.

We already have too many escape skills in the game (which imo needs to be reduced greatly), particularly on freepside. The game should not encourage running away from a fight.

Sprint & Disappear are not guaranteed escapes by any means. Stack enough bleeds on me and I'm still going to be dead no matter how fast I run, and some attacks will still hit AFTER I Disappear if they've already homed in. DF, conversely, is about a 90% guaranteed escape (there's still a small chance of bleeds).

Also, Sprint & Disappear can be used offensively. IMO, that capability encourages better pvp. DF? Strictly a defensive response that, for many, encourages hiding until the CD resets. Oh, and Disappear is now tied to my Topple if I'm in Flayer stance. Now I'm less likely to have it available.

Not saying hunters shouldn't get something. Restoring DF, though, isn't the answer.

Oh, and to the poster who said something about warg packs hiding till THEIR CDs reset...pretty damn lame warg pack if you ask me.

-pup-

the whole reason it was removed was because it can be used to deny points which still remains true. I have no problem getting some way to run away, but DF unless changed to something that doesn't put you immediately out of harms way. I'd give you a run incombat run speed buff like warg sprint since thats essentially what DF should be...

The more I've thought about it, I actually have used DF in a somewhat semi-offensive way.


On E, we have a creep raid who at times loves to map around and just take keeps without fighting freeps. I've used DF as my 30-minute map from the lugs/slugs/grams area over to TR rez to help with a creepraid's TR drop pull.

I've also chased creeps toward my own rez who are trying to get 1-shot to keep me from getting renown or a KB. I've DFed ahead of them and met them from the opposite direction killing them before they can get 1-shot or at least getting renown.


Other than that, I can't think of any other semi-offensive ways to use DF.

Part of the problem is you have hunters who haven’t been given anything in recent updates. Yep they have high end DPS, outside of that just about every other toon has had an upgrade which is fine. So you’re a hunter you aren’t getting anything new, other classes are, what are you left with? You have a skill that’s blocked in the moors the logic is spot on you ask for it back. The worse that happens you end up where you started, the skill is still blocked. There isnt a negative outcome to asking for this skill back, at a minimum it highlights very accurately that the hunter in the moors lacks survivability. It isnt horrible, I don’t think anyone is advocating a major rework here but you give nothing new they ask for something old, makes perfect sense to me.

As a wise man once said “when you aint got nothing, you got nothing to loose”. Fight on hunters for better and more skills, the crying helped wardens, rune keepers, wargs and weavers and rightfully so they had issues. The more you QQ the more attention you will get and the squeaky wheel gets the grease.

Alternatives:
1. Make press onward instant cast
2. Make DF a sprint
3. Add a stun to another melee skill (improved blindside, the bow shot gets you a stun)
4. Fleetness +25% run speed for 20s (acts more like a sprint) reduce to 3 focus


There are 4 things that are not DF (as is now). If we don’t give them something the QQ will increase the hunter forums are already starting to get “revamp suggestions” and U7 is coming. If they get nothing soon, they may get more in U7.

Careful what you wish for