Thema: Upgades to spiders

1: Make trapdoor sanctuary a regular skill without the channeled skill "toggle". It will still have the induction bar counting down, but will prevent us from unburrowing when we get attacked by a skill in que just after the burrow starts. Make the the same for minis also.

2. Fix our pets so they do not bug out so much. If this is to hard to fix then just add around 50% or more damage to make up for all the time they are bugged out, and the time we waist trying to get them to work instead of using our own skills.

3. Race trait swallower of light replace the +3 stealth level with around +220 light mitigation. Don't need stealth level for nothing not a stealth class. Light mitigation would be useful and fits the description well.

*yes i know in lie in wait you are "in stealth mode"

4. Race trait Drinker of Blood add -5 seconds to drink deep cooldown.

5. Class trait Enhanced Paralytic Venom add -5% movement speed set duration to 10 seconds.
Or add +2 seconds to daze break immunity to the current one on there for a total of 5 seconds, and add - 5 seconds to the cooldown.

6. Class trait Enhanced Latent Poison add applied on removal 500 Acid damage. So if they cure it they get damage like the skill virulent poison.

7. Necrosis add -2.5% ranged defense rating -2.5% melee defense rating.
Or add -5% acid mitigation

8. Class trait regeneration add +120 in-combat power regen, and add able to summon your hatchling in-combat.

9. Class trait swift weave add -5 seconds cooldown on all web skills.

10. Fix skills virulent poison and envenom to ranged skills not melee (so we are correctly getting our ranged crit chance on these skills not melee).

Any reasons for all these upgrades? Weavers seem powerful enough to me
Or i have one:
11. Set all cooldowns to zero. That should fix everything

In combat hatchling summon is a teeeeeerribad idea

I see weavers being satisfied with having godmode back didn't last long.

Would you like one of these too?







Spiders are fine. When ranked as well as skilled, they are beast modes.


My favorite is in-combat hatchling. rofl

Only thing that needs to be worked on for spiders is the hatchling AI which is horibad atm. Other than that, you should be happy with your updates. Wargs and spider are in a very good place atm and it's time that the other classes got some love .

These are really bad ideas that would overpower the class.

In combat hatchling would be amazingly broken...

The only changes I'd like to see are AI improvments for the hatchlings and for them to look into the second poison resist check on latent poison (I suspect our finesse is not applied to this check for some odd reason, it has an extremely high failure rate).

A couple of class traits are terrible and could use some work. Regeneration should add a small amount to the heals on devour and drink deep... a trait slot for 120 ICMR is really really bad. Steelweave web could probably stand a look as well. Really this is nitpicking, as most of our class traits are very good and we have some very interesting choices/tradeoffs when we make a build.

Our class is in fantastic shape. Other creep classes need attention before we get any more, honestly.

Zitat von Odin_of_Freyr

Would you like one of these too?







Spiders are fine. When ranked as well as skilled, they are beast modes.


My favorite is in-combat hatchling. rofl

I want this one






and i think the class is overall fine. I'm even ok with the poison cloud not contributing to our damage

I would say maybe to envenom and Virulent going to the ranged table.

and yes...FIX the hatchling...

The others....nah. we're good.

Zitat von Sezneg

These are really bad ideas that would overpower the class.

In combat hatchling would be amazingly broken...

.

HMmmm LM can trait to have one of its pets summoned in-combat. Make it a traitable skill then..., Or is the LM skill AMAZINGLY BROKEN too??

Trapdoor needs fix,i got killed after i hit it and was burrowed,had like 3k morale left and got a nasty dev crit from a hunter that pulled me from trapdoor,Envenom and Virulent must be ranged,range pet needs fix,Latent Poison needs to hit faster as from the moment u press it and by the time it lands it takes ages. 2.5 mele skills must be 5m;sometimes if the target is in 2,5m range but on my left or right side,it doesn't work,that needs fix also.I also noticed that when i pve and start with toxin,npc morale doesn't move an inch,only his power is beeing drained.I looked at combat log and no,target didn;t evade.....toxin did acid dmg to target but it's morale didn't droped.I tried it several times on bears arround tr and most of times this stuff happened.

Zitat von Patrickwg

3. Race trait swallower of light replace the +3 stealth level with around +220 light mitigation. Don't need stealth level for nothing not a stealth class. Light mitigation would be useful and fits the description well.

*yes i know in lie in wait you are "in stealth mode"

Are you a freep in weaver because you listen they are op? and when play with it you discover you die and not op like freep are?
Are you a freep in creep playing easymode always in raid?
I ask this to you because any weaber use trapdoor sanctuary to ambush freeps or gain their backs for flank them, and stealth is very important, if one freep detect you, say goodbye surprise... weavers can be stealth class

I would be interested if some of you could share your builds and some tips for beating RK's, Minstrel's, well geared Burgs, Bubble Champs.

Solo/Small group build.

Large RvR build.

I have about 11.2k health. 2x Phy Mast. DfP2 HfP2.

By the time I apply all my DoTs to a RK and 3x ensnare drink deep, envenom fear they have zap zap stun zap EC me to death and they are if I am lucky they are at half health. (Trapdoor, they kill pet, heal, drop a stone, I come out and usually same result over again)

Some things I would like to see fixed/changed.

Fix Scytode Brood Ranged Pet.

Fix Trapdoor Sanctuary. Make it so once you hit it you are actually in a sanctuary and safe. Not pulled out by induction skills etc. You shouldn’t get stuck with the cool down timer if you didn’t actually get the benefit of the skill.

Let Weaver DoT’s stack and not be overwritten. Mephitic Kiss & Tainted Kiss.

Change Lie in Wait so it dispels all negative affects once burrowed. You are already out of combat.

Survivability I don’t find it to be that great. Born of Shadow.. Increase the tactical portion of the skill and/or give Catch Prey.. Catch Tactical Prey. Give some type tactical defense benefits to the skill. It only affects one target at a time but it would at least offer some protection from nuke nuke EC dead.

I am only R5 with A3 so maybe A7 will solve all my problems and if that is the case please let me know. I would appreciate any input on the difference A5-7 will make.

I would have to agree that weaver's are in a good position atm. The hatchling pathing and especially the "ranged" pet needs work. I do agree that trap door sanctuary needs to go off immediately and not get "interrupted". In it's current state it's not worth using. Otherwise I'm happy.

Zitat von jadacakai

HMmmm LM can trait to have one of its pets summoned in-combat. Make it a traitable skill then..., Or is the LM skill AMAZINGLY BROKEN too??

Is this a joke? I take it you've never looked at LM traits? In-combat summoning is a legandary trait that requires traiting 5 blue line traits which is terrible to do in the moors. Plus, even if the LM didn't need to trait the 5 blue traits to get it, there are much better legandary traits that should be used instead. So no it's not AMAZINGLY BROKEN.

Zitat von Wraithlord

Is this a joke? I take it you've never looked at LM traits? In-combat summoning is a legandary trait that requires traiting 5 blue line traits which is terrible to do in the moors. Plus, even if the LM didn't need to trait the 5 blue traits to get it, there are much better legandary traits that should be used instead. So no it's not AMAZINGLY BROKEN.

Is LM traiting 5 blue useful for any situation? I don't play a LM and it seems like it wouldn't make sense under any condition except for chillin in the shire with some homies that came up in Tuckburo.

On another note... I don't play a spider and have nothing to offer this particular topic except I fully agree that other creep classes need love, 'specially reavers and defilers. I would like to see reavers have a higher mitigation bonus on charge such that they are not immediately get blown up (even with aud 7). I would like to see defilers get a dps stance so they can rank up faster if they like to solo or duo/trio. BAs are in pretty good shape... maybe need some type of temporary buff skills with CDs that cause higher damage output, and perhaps a better mitigation setup with better damage when in skirmisher stance such that the aggressive BAs that play in the front and pushing action are rewarded and the BAs that star hug in the back are missing out.

Don't change Wargs at all for the time being... I play my warg like a reaver these days and am having a blast.

<3

Zitat von jadacakai

HMmmm LM can trait to have one of its pets summoned in-combat. Make it a traitable skill then..., Or is the LM skill AMAZINGLY BROKEN too??

Because LM pet can be consumed for a 3k heal.....right?

I find koa traits with bear to be the easiest build to kill limlight mobs solo, in that scenario I have a pet combat res available but not very viable as a moors build.

Zitat von Daec

Because LM pet can be consumed for a 3k heal.....right?

WisdoM heal way greater than consuming pet. -.-

Zitat von 87_Suited

WisdoM heal way greater than consuming pet. -.-

Apples to oranges, resummoning hatchling in combat would equate to a whole lot more than wisdom.

True story... I retract my previous post and vow to read the whole thread next time.

Trapdoor sanctuacy can be fixed when they fix freep inductions same way they are on creep side. When freep starts induction skill will hit you even if you sprint 200 meters away over the hills and far away or go around solid rock. When creep starts induction it finishes, but says Target not in line of sight.

So as a standard it has been decided by programmers that when freep starts induction IT WILL HIT. When creep starts induction it might hit if target is still visible and not moved away.

Why? Well, otherwise it would be unfair. Now both are equal. end of story.







I SAID END OF STORY!

Yes the OP is way over the top but are Weavers in that great a place... well maybe in light of all other creep classes bar the Warg.

Compared to most freep classes they still suck. It takes an equal skilled Weaver to kill a freep of any melee class (the best Champs are still pretty unbeatable) and only an uber noob of any tactical class should lose to a weaver.

So they can solo a few freep classes which is more than can be said of many creep classes right now.

What does need fixing:

1) Ranged pet is completely fubar
2) Trapdoor changed to cancel any outstanding inductions and NOT toggle-able
3) Consuming your pet should not be affected by the pet's combat state
4) Double the range of all melee skills - maybe replace the 120 ICMR trait with a trait to double melee range.

I would be happy with just the ranged pet being fixed though.

Zitat von Sluggard

So they can solo a few freep classes which is more than can be said of many creep classes right now.

Which creep classes are unable to solo even a few freep classes? What you are saying is that many creep classes cannot solo all freep classes except what? 1 or 2 freep classes? Its hard to put number values to "few" and "many" but I will assume you mean that "few" is 3 or less? And I will assume "many" is 4+?

Correct my numbers please if they are way off base. So, you're saying that at least 4 creep classes cannot solo even 1 or 2 freep classes? Which creep classes would those be? Warleader? Defiler? I'm running out of any potential options here. I understand those two classes struggle at 1v1s especially at lower ranks, but help me name the other 2, heck even 1. /creep_goggles?

Zitat von Sluggard

What does need fixing:

3) Consuming your pet should not be affected by the pet's combat state

Disagree, even tried eating a feared spider hatchling? Its a fearful proposition.

Zitat von Odin_of_Freyr

Which creep classes are unable to solo even a few freep classes? What you are saying is that many creep classes cannot solo all freep classes except what? 1 or 2 freep classes? Its hard to put number values to "few" and "many" but I will assume you mean that "few" is 3 or less? And I will assume "many" is 4+?

Correct my numbers please if they are way off base. So, you're saying that at least 4 creep classes cannot solo even 1 or 2 freep classes? Which creep classes would those be? Warleader? Defiler? I'm running out of any potential options here. I understand those two classes struggle at 1v1s especially at lower ranks, but help me name the other 2, heck even 1. /creep_goggles?

Well, if we take an average Creep to be R6, and assume R7 Audacity on both sides... which Creep classes would you consider to be stronger in a 1v1 than 3 or more Freep classes of equal skill?

Specifically concerning Weavers, as I said, melee classes Champ/Guard/Cappie/Burg were all soloable at R7 unless the Champ/Burg was exceptionally good. In this respect Weavers are in a good place compared to other Creeps. You will (should) get utterly destroyed by tactical classes though... so there are two distinct sides to the coin.

Disagree, even tried eating a feared spider hatchling? Its a fearful proposition.

Not at all, it is sat shaking in fear on the spot. A simple devour.

Zitat von Sluggard

Specifically concerning Weavers, as I said, melee classes Champ/Guard/Cappie/Burg were all soloable at R7 unless the Champ/Burg was exceptionally good. In this respect Weavers are in a good place compared to other Creeps. You will (should) get utterly destroyed by tactical classes though... so there are two distinct sides to the coin.

As someone who was originally attracted to the ambushing aspect of the spider my issue with "the coin" at the moment is that most melee can just turn and run from a solo spider and there isn't much we can do about it (especially with audacity reducing CC). Our ranged DPS is still weak (especially versus most melee) so trailing a fleeing freep (champ, guard, warden...etc) is usually an exercise in futility as they can often easily reach some form of safety.

So tact can blow us up.....and while we have an advantage over melee.....that only materializes if they choose to stay and fight (i.e. solo spider generally can't force advantage).

Zitat von Sluggard

Well, if we take an average Creep to be R6, and assume R7 Audacity on both sides... which Creep classes would you consider to be stronger in a 1v1 than 3 or more Freep classes of equal skill?

Ah just a slight difference probably in our servers. I play on E, and I'd say the average rank of creeps I come across is 8, maybe 9. Maybe that's just because I don't hunker down in the middle of a big old creep zerg. Then again, we're talking about 1v1s, not zergs.

As far as 3 creeps: Defilers, wargs, BAs, weavers, some reavers. Hard to find 1v1ing WLs. As far as which freep classes are worse than each specific creep class, it will vary depending on the creep class. It almost gets to be a circular discussion of who should beat who if all things are equal.

Maybe E just has good weavers? idk

no, simply no, if you want those increases you'll have to take a hit in a number of other departments, since right now you got 2-3k heal from eating your baby/defeat response and now trapdoor 2% morale regen which will probably get you to full in most cases... web of earth, on the move shooting. You don't need any more love...

Zitat von Odin_of_Freyr

Ah just a slight difference probably in our servers. I play on E, and I'd say the average rank of creeps I come across is 8, maybe 9. Maybe that's just because I don't hunker down in the middle of a big old creep zerg. Then again, we're talking about 1v1s, not zergs.

An average doesn't take into account where you hunker down. I play on a pretty busy server with a lot of new creeps coming and going. You are correct in that many of those newbies do hunker down in zergs. Ask yourself why. In my opinion it's because they have zero chance in open field solo.

As far as 3 creeps: Defilers, wargs, BAs, weavers, some reavers. Hard to find 1v1ing WLs. As far as which freep classes are worse than each specific creep class, it will vary depending on the creep class. It almost gets to be a circular discussion of who should beat who if all things are equal.

Well it is a circular discussion. I would say out of your list only the Warg has a chance in an equal skilled fight against 3 or more Freep classes. After RoI first went live I could solo any class on my BA... now that has all changed. I have tried soloing on my WL and the truth is ppl just run away from you unless they know they will face melt you. So it is a frustrating affair. You really need someone with a reliable snare to duo with. Defiler is my only low rank creep but I see very few at 1v1 now. Even the good ones seem to be getting blown away by tactical classes. Against melee I guess it depends on how smart the opponent is.

It is all a matter of opinion and no one will ever agree on what class can beat what class. I'm just giving my opinion of what I see in the moors on a daily basis.

Maybe E just has good weavers? idk

Maybe it does, or maybe you just have sucky freeps. Like I said, I really don't have an issue with where Weavers are on the Creep scale of things. I can take down melee on my Weaver and I get blown away by tactical. I can live with that. I still take down the odd Minstrel newby who just tries to run and I can, if I am lucky, VH kite some RKs if I get the drop on them from burrow. Not the usual outcome but it's nice when it happens