Thread: Crits and crafting.... how aggravating.

Ok I'm writing this because I'm mainly venting but also would like to ask if you think this is fair. I'm trying to craft a level 65 chisel (single use recipe) for my Rune-keeper, this items requires 2 mithril flakes; 1 for the journal and 1 for the item it self. Now with the best tools (20%), best crit scrolls (12.5%) and a supreme metalworkers journal(35%) (its a pain in the behind to get) you get a crit rate of 73%. I tried to make this darned thing 3 times and 3 times it did not crit!!

I wasted 6 mithril flakes and 3 metalworkers journals on trying to crit this thing and it just doesn't happen. There isn't a guild recipe (master of the guild) and nothing else can be done.. How do I go about getting a critted version of this, how is this fair?

GRRRRRR!

Please share your stories of crit fails to make me feel a little better :P

I feel your pain but honestly with the level cap 75, a 65 chisel is not that important, lvl 70 there's a new one and again at 75 (both of which are easy to crit)

It's really not, I only get 100 finesse from the thing but it's principle of the matter. After wasting so many hard to get resources 1 should be able to crit it with relative ease.

It's just disappointing and makes me hate the game. Seems childish but It's really that annoying.

My feeling (and it's just a feeling - no statistical evidence to support it) is that a single item "make" crits at a much lower rate than a "make all".

Using "make" or "make all" for a large number of items should achieve the same critical success rate. It's like flipping coins, whether you flip one or 100, the probability that any given coin will be heads is 50%. Each execution of the recipe should have the same probability of achieving critical success as every other execution. And we should be able to observe that the rate is close to the stated crit rate, for a large sample size, regardless if we use "make" or "make all".

A "make all" for a large number of items, feels like it is achieving critical success at close to the stated crit rate.

A large number of single item "make"s does not feel like it is achieving the same critical success rate.

This suggests that there are differences in the program logic for determining critical success for the two cases, and / or there are faults in the mathematics for determining critical success that bias the crit rate.

This is especially frustrating for recipes that use "expensive" ingredients, those with long cool downs, or single-use recipes.

Perhaps some experimental data should be collected!

I felt the need to back up some of my statements with some statistics. So I ran some experiments using my level 27 Minstrel. She is Master of the Jeweller's Guild, and a Westfold Master Jeweller. Given my excessive inventory of Green Garnets, I chose to have her craft Green Garnets into Polished Green Garnets using a Superior Workbench in the Craft-hall of Esteldín. For her, this recipe has a 13% critical chance; 5% base plus 8% from Superior Steel Jeweller's Tools.

Run 1: "make all" on stack of 100 => 130 for 15% crit rate.

Run 2: 100 "make" on stack of 100 => 134 for 17% crit rate.

Run 3: "make all" on stack of 100 => 124 for 12% crit rate.

Run 4: 100 "make" on stack of 100 => 124 for 12% crit rate.

Although the sample size is small, this suggests that there is no significant difference between processing a 100 stack with "make all" vs 100 individual "make"s.

Also, the critical success rate appears to be consistent with the stated 13% critical chance.

I have, however, never suspected a problem with critical success for my jeweller. These results suggest my prior speculation was unfounded.

However, where I have seen unexpected behaviour is with my tailor. Some recipes seem to crit less often than others. Also, with my metalworker. In those cases, my typical usage pattern is to make enough components for one execution of the target recipe, and then execute "make all" on the target recipe, repeating until critical success. This is a slightly different situation than the jeweller recipe which results in "more of the same" on critical success.

Another time, when my patience has recovered, I may try collecting some stats for such cases.

The big issue is that there is no Guild recipe. You have to take your chances. For everyone that gets three failures in a row. There is somebody is someone that gets 10 critical results in a row. The person that make 10 critical chisels never comes to the forums to complain about Turbine weak sauce RNG.

You need to find that lucky Yula Bunny, whack off one of his front paws for a crafting token.

General rule anywhere there is a profanity filter: The fact that it's filtered out does not excuse use of the filtered word. If it's filtered out, remove the offending word.

Originally Posted by Morgunthor

Ok I'm writing this because I'm mainly venting but also would like to ask if you think this is fair. I'm trying to craft a level 65 chisel (single use recipe) for my Rune-keeper, this items requires 2 mithril flakes; 1 for the journal and 1 for the item it self. Now with the best tools (20%), best crit scrolls (12.5%) and a supreme metalworkers journal(35%) (its a pain in the behind to get) you get a crit rate of 73%. I tried to make this darned thing 3 times and 3 times it did not crit!!

I wasted 6 mithril flakes and 3 metalworkers journals on trying to crit this thing and it just doesn't happen. There isn't a guild recipe (master of the guild) and nothing else can be done.. How do I go about getting a critted version of this, how is this fair?

GRRRRRR!

Please share your stories of crit fails to make me feel a little better :P

There should be a guild recipe for it.

Oooh yeah I remember the fun times I've had trying to crit lv55 crafting tools on my metalsmith. First you have to get lucky and find a journal, or even a recipe on the AH. Then you spend 2 mithril flakes. And then you hold tight and f... pray with all you've got that the 73% crit chance is on your side this time. I have a friend who's been waiting months for a critted tool because of this, and now that I've finally run out of flakes I guess it's just not going to happen. I pretty much gave up hope after I'd wasted 5-6 gold on journals, half my stack of flakes and had nothing but purple vendor trash to show for it.

While I've had good luck crafting tools in the past, it seems to be gone now, or maybe the system got even more lottery-ey, or maybe I just stopped caring. Either way, it seems to be a general thing now that you try again and again to get some item in a process that involves no skill or even the right kind of gear, but just pure dumb luck. This is totally fine for festival stuff, rare cosmetics and stuff like that, not for a something that is so essential to a crafter as the best crafting tool.

It's all in the RNG...if you have a 73% chance then each time you craft you roll out of 100, if its 73 or less, then its a crit, if its above it, then it isn't. Pretty simple. Folks who say "it seems like this recipe crits less often blah, blah, blah" are just unlucky.

But back to your main question. I was trying to make the 3 in 1 yeoman tools for my lvl 55 captain. I don't remember the crit rate for it, should be 73% I guess like every other single use recipe. I always used the journals, scrolls, etc. It took me NINE times before I finally got a crit set of tools. That's a lot of flakes!

I agree, guild recipes for things like that would be nice. How about in tier 7?

Originally Posted by Guil1984

I agree, guild recipes for things like that would be nice. How about in tier 7?

It's what I keep asking for (all the way back to RoI closed beta).

The general spec I'd look for would be:

Level 65 to equip.

+20% to crit on all three crafts, with -3 sec. time on any gathering activities.

Durability: Tough, 100.

--W. H. Heydt

Old Used Programmer

Hopefully they do add a higher tier crafting all in one tool. That'd be wonderful.

On the plus side, you can now purchase the crafting journals recipes from the Theodred rep vendor, which makes getting journals that much easier. Only problem is still the low low low... drop rate of the Cracked Sigils.

Edit: Addendum to my thoughts. If they did make a tier 7 all in one tool, it'd be nice if it continued with the same crit rating, but also granted a crafting speed boost as well. Something like the gathering reduction in times for other crafts. For instance, mining an ore node on my prospector has gotten nice and fast. However, now that I'm working my scholar again, I'm reminded what mining my first ever copper/tin node felt like... forever. The speed boost for gathering ore is great, but even better would be tools that would decrease overall time it takes for processing and refining materials, or making ingredients if not for any crafting. Any thoughts on this? Whether this is a likely option for new tier 6 or 7 tools? (As a side note, my metalsmith is bored now past tier 5 since all he's got going is heavy armor now.)

Originally Posted by BulbousBiggers

Hopefully they do add a higher tier crafting all in one tool. That'd be wonderful.

On the plus side, you can now purchase the crafting journals recipes from the Theodred rep vendor, which makes getting journals that much easier. Only problem is still the low low low... drop rate of the Cracked Sigils.

Edit: Addendum to my thoughts. If they did make a tier 7 all in one tool, it'd be nice if it continued with the same crit rating, but also granted a crafting speed boost as well. Something like the gathering reduction in times for other crafts. For instance, mining an ore node on my prospector has gotten nice and fast. However, now that I'm working my scholar again, I'm reminded what mining my first ever copper/tin node felt like... forever. The speed boost for gathering ore is great, but even better would be tools that would decrease overall time it takes for processing and refining materials, or making ingredients if not for any crafting. Any thoughts on this? Whether this is a likely option for new tier 6 or 7 tools? (As a side note, my metalsmith is bored now past tier 5 since all he's got going is heavy armor now.)

The Journal recipes sold by the Theodreds Riders NPC is for Westfold (Tier 7) crafting only.
The Journals needed for critting the highest level crafting tools currently in game are the Supreme (Tier 6) journals and thus cannot be purchased from Theodreds Riders NPC.

You can use skirmish marks to purchase Metalsmith Supreme level recipe scrolls but it's a gamble as to which Journal recipe you will get from the scrolls. You might wind up getting several Woodworking journals (totally useless) before you get a single Metalsmith journal.