Thread: Make 68% horse speed to passive skill?

I would love to see the extra 6% speed added as a passive. I have a couple of mounts I really like, and a bunch I don't. Sadly, all the ones I love are 62%, and this makes me sad. I generally prefer to do my hurry up and waiting in the AH, jumping in circles. When I'm mounted, I'm going somewhere and have no desire to take longer to get there.


I understand that it's a good possibility the 68% in-game horses were made fugly so that we would spend TP on the decent looking ones. I also understand that changes to the game such as this will never happen without the chance of profit. So let me just say I for one would be happy to pay TP for a passive enhanced riding skill.

When you have a 68% mount, there is no incentive to buy any other mount no matter how good they look. Making the skill passive would only result in more sales from the store, and more cash for Turbine.

Originally Posted by Barren

So you're equating a salary as being of the same value as speed for a horse in a video game?

yup, exactly.

Originally Posted by Evenprimes

If your salary was 168 and got cut to 162, that wouldn't be a 6% cut. The horse speed percentages are listed with respect to pedestrian run speed. You don't go 6% faster on a 168 horse than you would on a 162 horse.

huh? it is clearly stated as 6% faster. yes, all base on base-run-speed.

the actual increase from one speed to another is like 9%

but i dont care about the math, in these games. im all about the gut. i see myself passing people on regualr mounts all the time. that is ALL the proof i need.

I like the idea or maybe a simpler implementation would be to create a cosmetic horse slot? This way you pick whatever horse suites your visual style and can still get the benefits of a 68% horse that you already earned or bought.

I’ve had a theory about how mounted combat would work for a while and I suspect that with the next expansion, mounts will turn into pets similar to our skirmish soldier:

• You will have One mount with multiple cosmetic skins (hopefully all your existing horses would be available to apply their “skin” to your war steed)

• You will be able to pick and chose specific traits (Speed, Morale, No Auto Dismount on Crit, etc…) as well as skills (whatever horse attack skills they are thinking up)

It makes the most sense to build off a system they already have rather than create a completely brand new one but you never know.

Originally Posted by Evenprimes

If your salary was 168 and got cut to 162, that wouldn't be a 6% cut. The horse speed percentages are listed with respect to pedestrian run speed. You don't go 6% faster on a 168 horse than you would on a 162 horse.

Actually that isn't an apt argument. A more apt one would be if you have 2 jobs one being 168 and the other being 162. As your horse speed is on two different horses not on the same one.

Maybe I am playing the game wrong but I use the one that I want regardless of speed percentage. It doesn't matter at all to me. it just seems like another min/max type of customization.

Originally Posted by SapienChavez

but i dont care about the math, in these games.

Since the actual increase from 162% of "normal" to 168% of "normal" is actually a 3.7% increase...clearly you *don't* care about the math.

--W. H. Heydt

Old Used Programmer

Originally Posted by whheydt

Since the actual increase from 162% of "normal" to 168% of "normal" is actually a 3.7% increase...clearly you *don't* care about the math.

--W. H. Heydt

Old Used Programmer

again, beside the point... its still faster and i still pass people.


curious though, show me your math... how did you get a 3.7 increase?

Originally Posted by SapienChavez

again, beside the point... its still faster and i still pass people.


curious though, show me your math... how did you get a 3.7 increase?

If 168% is the maximum speed (100%), 162% is 96.3% of that.

Which means that 168% speed represents a 3.7% increase over 162% speed.

(168-162)/162*100 = 3,7% increase

./Signed

While were at it, add an option to select if you want to have an flag on your horse or not.

I love my R12 Ettens horse but the flag is just terrible terrible idea.. I want it removed or atleast an way to disable it.

Cheers

I agree. The rank 9 Ettenmoors horse is just as hard to obtain as most of the 168% horses. If you own one fast horse than the rest should catch up!

oh, i didnt look at it as an increase from one speed to the other speed. i took as the increase over base run speed.

This is a good idea.

Separate the skill from the passive, and offer the 168% as a reward along-side the Meta-mounts. They can always add the 168% passive to the Turbine Store for people who don't want to wait. I think requiring the Riding skill would be best--there need to be *some* milestones to get excited about.

Originally Posted by kimano

Actually that isn't an apt argument. A more apt one would be if you have 2 jobs one being 168 and the other being 162. As your horse speed is on two different horses not on the same one.

It was Sapien's analogy, not mine. The point about % increase/decrease still stands.

+rep to everyone who calculated a 3.7% increase.

Originally Posted by SapienChavez

again, beside the point... its still faster and i still pass people.


curious though, show me your math... how did you get a 3.7 increase?

((168/162) - 1) * 100. The standard way to calculate a percentage difference between two numbers.

--W. H. Heydt

Old Used Programmer

Count me in the /sign crowd. So many good-looking mounts but nearly all the 68% ones are the ones in the ugly tack. But could we extend the idea to the no-dismount on critical hit too? The extra 6% speed I won't notice, but I dang well notice every time some near-grey archer get's a lucky critical hit that dismounts my hunter when he's not using his Steed of Night.

It's closer to 10% than 4%, because it's +62%/+68, not +162%/+168%.

And as mentioned earlier, they'll probably just turn horses into LIs with the Rohan expansion. You'll be able to get your skin/speed/morale/damage resistance/whatever from that.

Originally Posted by kyphros

It's closer to 10% than 4%, because it's +62%/+68, not +162%/+168%.

It's 100%+62%=162%.

"+62%" only makes sense if it's being added to something else. Otherwise it would just be "62%"--and no one wants a horse that slow!

Originally Posted by Khafar

You said it just fine, but I'll add a few more details. The way this game works, most of the terrain isn't actually loaded and running on the servers at any given moment in time - it would take up far too much memory and CPU. They divide the world up into "landblocks", and only load them into server memory (and start running spawns/AIs) whenever a player is getting close to an empty/unloaded landblock. When no players remain in a landblock, it can be unloaded once again, making room for more. Landblocks are 160x160m in size... about as big as you can ride across in 18-20 seconds (or run across in about 30 seconds).

What does that have to do with mount speeds? Basically, landblocks take some time to load and populate with stuff - you may have seen this when the servers are busy, where creatures seem to fall from the sky onto the landscape out in front of you. Or just "appear". The faster your horse can go, the worse this will be, and a mount that could go +100% would often be well into a landblock before spawns could be placed. This would look bad, make it easy to bypass certain content, and get people into nasty situations (e.g. have a bunch of Elites suddenly appear right around you).

I don't know what the actual limit is, but it's a pretty fair guess that they're close to it after 5 years. People can bring up other games if they wish, but all of that is irrelevant. Different architectures means different tradeoffs, and one of the tradeoffs in this one is that you cannot move across the landscape at very high rates of speed.

Khafar

Interesting. So, I'm guessing all of the underground section of Isengard that you go through as a prisoner is one land block? You can stack speed buffs down there (one from killing a Surly Ururk, one from doing a carry quest that has a speed buff that it grants), and practically fly around.

Originally Posted by Khafar

...Landblocks are 160x160m in size... about as big as you can ride across in 18-20 seconds (or run across in about 30 seconds).

What does that have to do with mount speeds? Basically, landblocks take some time to load and populate with stuff - you may have seen this when the servers are busy, where creatures seem to fall from the sky onto the landscape out in front of you. Or just "appear". The faster your horse can go, the worse this will be, and a mount that could go +100% would often be well into a landblock before spawns could be placed. This would look bad, make it easy to bypass certain content, and get people into nasty situations (e.g. have a bunch of Elites suddenly appear right around you).

Very nice explanation. And +68% seems to be arguably beyond that point already. I find when I'm charging across the landscape at full speed looking for nodes, suddenly three or so will pop at once, one of them behind me, or an orc will start beaming in just in front of me, and I'll be out of range before it has materialized enough to notice me and aggro. Note also that there are store buffs that'll add another 10% or so... I won a small stack in one of the lotteries.

Today in Bree(contrary to popular belief, I do play the game ) I saw a kin by the South Gate getting ready for a race and I thought about this thread and started thinking about how hard it would be for all the racers to have mounts at the same speed if the horse speed was a passive skill.

Originally Posted by Atharndan

Interesting. So, I'm guessing all of the underground section of Isengard that you go through as a prisoner is one land block? You can stack speed buffs down there (one from killing a Surly Ururk, one from doing a carry quest that has a speed buff that it grants), and practically fly around.

That would sound about right. At least, the area is likely all in the same "time", or at least all loaded so long as one person's in it, for the sake of that game mechanic. Or so I'd understand.

Originally Posted by Barren

So, unless they do something to fix that, 68% is the most we're getting.

Or we can conveniently buy a +20% mount speed boost from the store.

What you explained has fact in it, but it clearly isn't an excuse to keep Turbine from implementing mount speeds above +68%. Regular stable route mounts have always went faster than +68% as well.

Originally Posted by MoonwalkIntoMordor

What you explained has fact in it, but it clearly isn't an excuse to keep Turbine from implementing mount speeds above +68%. Regular stable route mounts have always went faster than +68% as well.

With a stable mount, the server can predict which landblock it will need well before you get there (you're on a fixed route at a known speed, after all) and the mobs won't attack you anyway so there is less need to worry about spawning them.

By comparison, on your own mount there is no way for the server to predict your future position.

--W. H. Heydt

Old Used Programmer

Originally Posted by whheydt

With a stable mount, the server can predict which landblock it will need well before you get there (you're on a fixed route at a known speed, after all) and the mobs won't attack you anyway so there is less need to worry about spawning them.

By comparison, on your own mount there is no way for the server to predict your future position.

--W. H. Heydt

Old Used Programmer

Yeah, I believe my first example of "1 hour +20% mount speed boost" that is sold in the store was enough.

Or just evidence that 188% speed is the cap, and 168% is what they use normally to cut down pressure on the servers.

Also, note that stables haven't always been so predictable lately, and I doubt the speed cap makes things any better for it.

[QUOTE
What the OP is suggesting they did in WoW; if you own a 310% flying mount there then every single of your flying mounts becomes 310%. [/QUOTE]

Why, If I need to go faster I can change mounts otherwise I can look good I don't see what the argument is, when fellowship is running down the road I don't see a separation of the group by their mount speed. I am usually coming up in the rear because I have never seen a node that didn't call my name but watching everyone else the difference between 162% and 168% is not noticable even when everyone is running side by side. A bit of misdirection or wandering about causes the 168 to not be any faster than the 162 and I will go back to what is the best part of the game which is exploring and looking about and taking the time to smell the flowers. If all my things need to be passive skills and plug in values I can go back and play WoW again

Is this a big issue that the game NEEDS? No, would it be nice? Yes. Don't understand all the flaming going on, its a small thing that could probably easily be changed. I see people asking for alot of different things that would be nice. New PVP map, is it needed? no the moors works fine as is, but a new area would be nice. New zones to play and lvl in and new gear are asked for, is it absolutely necessary? no, but more content would be fun. Personally I would like to be able to have a cosmetic shield cause I think some of the earlier game ones are better looking than the end game ones, is it necessary? no, but I still think it would be nice.

I'm not sure I would call it "flaming". I earned my fast Steed fair and square. I like the bonus
There are so many mounts now. The quick one's should be the earned ones.

I'd rather that *I* earn a speed, & have all my horses then capable of that speed. Some other game did that finally. WoW maybe? I'd prefer to pick the horse I like - (I like my simple gray Angmar horse best.) I guess we're being encouraged to use our special new Mearas-bred horses, but I'd hate to see my huge herd become obsolete.

Ok - this is Rohan... I really require stables near my housing. You already have stable-ish models, Turbine. I want my horses grazing near my house!

i don't think this should be implemented, just deal with the 6%, why you might ask, well there's a certain level of achievement required to get, say a dunedain war-steed(im sorry great-steed) and i think there is a different level of achievement to acquiring a horse that looks good, maybe the limlight gorge horse. And having a 68% horse should be something commendable rather than if you just got one the easy way and the speed boost was used for any.

for example i could run a simple rift, and an easy thorog for the SoA steed and use that to make my inn league faster, the normal system forces you to keep work for sometihng that both looks good and runs fast.

Originally Posted by dragerslayer

i don't think this should be implemented, just deal with the 6%, why you might ask, well there's a certain level of achievement required to get, say a dunedain war-steed(im sorry great-steed) and i think there is a different level of achievement to acquiring a horse that looks good, maybe the limlight gorge horse. And having a 68% horse should be something commendable rather than if you just got one the easy way and the speed boost was used for any.

for example i could run a simple rift, and an easy thorog for the SoA steed and use that to make my inn league faster, the normal system forces you to keep work for sometihng that both looks good and runs fast.

What 'looks good' is a subjective term. The phrase 'beauty is in the eye of the beholder' exists for a reason.

I have quite a few 62% horses I'd rather spend the time grinding to learn some skill that allows my character to ride them 6% faster, instead of riding most of the 68% horses/goat. One matches my Warden's cosmetics beautifully, but it's not 68%. Cosmetics, so far, in LotRO are not about sacrificing something else to look good, or we wouldn't have a seperate cosmetic tab. With the amount of cosmetic horses being pushed in the game and the store, Turbine would do well to monetize something like the 6% passive bonus for people who want to ride the slower horses for cosmetic purposes (like me). I'm not saying the bonus should in any form be "easy" to get.

As for the stuff about 6% doesn't matter.. okay, go ride a 62% horse and put a 68% on follow. Just do it in Moria, it has plenty of long almost straight-pathways where you can see this. If the person you are following isn't one of the random running all over the place, strafing, etc types, but an actual person who knows how to handle followers so they go around obstacles without being lost and isn't wasting time, then the person in the lead will have no choice but to eventually stop and wait for them to catchup. Another way I've seen this numerous times is leading groups of alts to stablemasters. You can actually make someone lose track in Follow mode from the DISTANCE between you leading them from Forsaken Inn to Ost Guruth. The distance is actually long enough to lose someone, go back, wait for them to refollow, and then follow will break AGAIN before getting to Ost Guruth due to distance.

I used the Moria example first, where you are far, far, far more likely to have a 68 by then than in the Lonelands, but Lonelands is a better example of the speed difference. Although right now, pretty much anybody playing since the Yule Festival has no real excuse, other than being a genuine new player, to not to have at least one or more 68% from all of the events. That's based on your own statement of the work involved in the 'achievement' of a 68% mount. My hunter has three now, and he's only just reached level 40. That includes a 68% goat and he can't even go in Moria. Yet not one of my characters have a Steed of the Jester from the Spring Festival, with well over 200 flower gift boxes opened, before I decided less than half a percent chance isn't worth it (yes, I know the odds do not actually work that way).

IMHO interesting solution would be some form of "horse traning deeds/quests". You can start with 62%/100HP horse but with great looks, then you can do some number of daily quests/deeds to "train" your horse and strengthen it so it become the horse with the same looks but greater speed and endurance. Passive skill would break an immersion a little bit, but this solution would allow you to keep your favourite horse fully usable as a travelling moun

Originally Posted by Haunt123

If you like a horse's appearance, ride it no matter if it is 162% or 168%
+6% is not much of a difference IMO

Try keeping up with an Ettenmoors raid while running 6% slower than everyone else.


These 62% mounts for preorders and such are just annoying

On how much of a difference 6% makes: A steed that operates at 168% run speed is 3.7% faster than a 162% mount (rounded - it's actually 3.703703703.....). (And it looks like someone beat me to this observation. More than one someone.)

(168-162)/162*100 = 3,7% increase

I actually just did "168/162" (1.037037037...), and knocked the initial "1" off of it (.037037..., rounded to .037, or 3.7%).

Also, silverblade DOES bring up a valid point - there are horses, and there are horses. You just can't get any old plowhorse to gallop like a thoroughbred, no matter how you trained them. Horses bred for speed have concrete physiological advantages over other kinds. (I'm no horse expert, though, so I don't know details. Although I assume there are such experts on these forums, from things I've seen in other threads.)

The image of riding faster than your friends so that the wargs get them instead of you reminds me of the old scuba dictum: you don't have to swim faster than the shark; you just need to swim faster than your buddy.

The version I heard used a bear. "I don't have to outrun the bear... I just have to outrun you."

For the suggestion itself, I say: Not a passive. If we must detach it from mounts, let it be a Trait. If we must categorize it, it would best fit with Racials, I suppose (even though it's omniracial). Specifically, define it as "while this trait is equipped, any 162% mount operates at 168% run speed and has 250 morale" (better to combine them both, if it's going to be something you'd have to sacrifice another trait for using). And yes, I left out that 132% mount on purpose. It shares a skin with a real mount anyway, and +36% would be too large a jump (whereas making the definition summarily add 6% would find a way to make the fast mounts faster).

For acquiring the trait, if there's no way to attach it to the acquisition of a 168% mount directly, then simply have Eogar offer it to people who have such mounts.

I personally do not feel this change needs to be made at all - there really ISN'T that much a difference in speed between them (except I can see the point in the 'Moors) - but if it must be done, I feel that making it a Trait, asking people to decide how "worth it" it is, is better than a blanket passive. Besides, if you need to get somewhere in a hurry, Stable horses are inherently faster than even a 168 steed, even if you don't have access to Swift Travel (if you do, then it's even faster, by far). And we can't forget travel skills, either!

Also? If we want Turbine to take this as a suggestion, oughtn't it be in the appropriate subforum? Do they look at General Discussion for suggestion ideas?

The other game I'm playing adjusts all mount speeds to your fastest mount speed. So if I buy a +110% speed mount and then win a festival mount... the festival mount will be 110% speed as well. If my friend has no mounts at all and then wins the same festival mount, his will be at 60% speed (base). (same physical appearance... but we both run at the highest speeds we earned). This way you can truly ride the ride you want and not the ones you have to

Make the meta deeds grant 62%/250hp horses and an extra 6% passive skill. Add the skill to the store. Store horses that are currently 68% into 62% and drop the price some. Grant the passive skill to anyone who's already purchased a 68% horse from the store. Cost for the passive skill + a store horse is slightly higher than the current price for a 68% horse.

That should make everyone happy, even Turbine. The only people it would upset are people who currently have no 68% horse who were planning on buying one from the store, as they'd face a price increase, but everyone else would have lower costs/more options.

I like the idea of being able to train your horses to run faster and have more health by doing some type of daily quest or something. I don't like the looks of any of the meta mounts and the only 68% I like the looks of is the Duskwatch Steed from the anniversary events. However my favorite horse in the game period for looks is the Eglan horse and I would love to use that as a 68% speed horse even if I had to grind a bunch of dailies in order to achieve it.