Thread: Grats Freeps on Epic Fail

Originally Posted by Mops

Store pots however are pay2win in the truest sense and there is no amount of time in game that could result in getting them.

I agree with you, but to play Devil's Advocate there are very limited epic quests that give store pots. Combine this with the lootboxes Sathim mentioned and the lotteries that hand them out like candy and you'll see why almost every Freep will have them even if they never spent a single point in the store. I can't really blame Sathim for not letting them rot, mine sit in my vault but I shouldn't be chastised if I decided to take them out and use them up one day. I'm sure I would be, but I didn't buy them they were quest rewards. Those who rely on these and use them continuously are pretty easily distinguished from those who are just using up the few they got from questing/lotteries.

Originally Posted by thunderchickn

I agree with you, but to play Devil's Advocate there are very limited epic quests that give store pots. Combine this with the lootboxes Sathim mentioned and the lotteries that hand them out like candy and you'll see why almost every Freep will have them even if they never spent a single point in the store. I can't really blame Sathim for not letting them rot, mine sit in my vault but I shouldn't be chastised if I decided to take them out and use them up one day. I'm sure I would be, but I didn't buy them they were quest rewards. Those who rely on these and use them continuously are pretty easily distinguished from those who are just using up the few they got from questing/lotteries.

I feel that Glor but it is pretty clear which people are getting them from lottos/lootboxes/quests and which are getting them from other sources...there is a hunter who comes out who uses about 1k tp worth of store pots/brands per trip to the moors

Originally Posted by nogrod

I was going to say the same thing Tatanko. Whenever I've seen attempts to build organized warg packs, it's usually met with resistance, if not outright hostility in creep OOC. That bone-head last night was on the brunt end of a lot of flames before being introduced to lots of ignore lists, including my own.

I run my warg with another tribe-mate in a "pack" of two. Never more than that...ever. Sure, there are a lot of dogs out now, but honestly, they're generally not very organized. And to be fair, a few of us labored for a long time on our puppies when we were seriously broken. Now that we've got some dev love, is there any wonder that we want to enjoy it?

Well said. The fact of the matter is, wargs are very much the fotm right now. But for the most part there's not always an organized warg pack, simply all the wargs online responding to an OOC call about freeps. Does that mean we should all just stop playing our dogs? Of course not. I agree with Gothluk, there are some of us that have worked hard on our wargs and now we end up feeling like people want to punish us now that we can really enjoy some much needed love.

I always give people a hard time in OOC myself if there's advertisements about warg packs (hell, I give anyone who spends most of their time in OOC begging for a group a hard time and tell them they need to learn to solo), but sometimes the community can't do anything about a warg pack because it's a tribe (I think anyone who's been creepside knows the tribe I mean), or a bunch of friends. No OOC communication about it and therefore we can't do much about it to discourage people.

Originally Posted by Sathim

On one hand I agree with this statement. Freeps who buy store pots, brands etc do annoy me slightly. By the same token, though, a majority of the creeps have bought at least one skill/trait etc from the store. Is it ok for creeps to buy their rank 15 skills and not ok for freeps to buy some morale potions?

To me, the skills are far different than the pots, brands, whatever else. Freeps don't have skills that rely on rank (hell, they don't even need rank for armour anymore), whereas creeps do. Sure there are some that just go buy every skill they can just because they can, but there are others still who pick up higher ranked skills/traits simply because they know it'll take a long time to grind up to that rank. Not to mention with commendations now, sometimes it's faster and cheaper to run and pick up a skill in a store than try to grind for days on end for enough commendations.

Buy your skills by your pots buy your brands its your money right. I dont care I will help spend your money as fast as your earn it but Ill be darn if im giving up points easily to a creep who uses store bought pots brands and so on.

Back to the wargs packs, play how you want but if any one remembers how it was when the burgs packs where out small groups and solos will slowly go away and you will see large raids again

I do recall a conversation in OOC when the freeps were already outnumbered

some random warg-OOC: forming dog pack, PST
me-OOC: stop being fail and learn how to play your toon
derlan's dog-OOC: dog packs are a waste of oxygen
some random warg-OOC: shut up, warg packs are great
me-OOC: right, fail players who just kill action
some random warg-OOC: you know how powerful a warg pack is? we can kill any solo freep we find!

This is the sad nature of these mighty dog packs. I had nothing else to say to that comment other than, wow...


On rank farmers, I don't really care. Look at it this way, most likely, they are easier to kill thus easier points. IMO, is way worse to be zerging for people, no difference from a warg pack ganking solos.

So creep and freep leaders, please disband your raids and reform them accordingly to balance PvP population numbers. I'm sure most of us want constant good action.

I'm not so opposed to the warg packs, they tend to put up good fights. I can see how it gets overwhelming at times tho. I really don't see how its any different than the Minstrel packs out tbh. And before you say that the 5-8 Minstrels are not grouped, but are all solo out there, being in the same area still makes it a Minstrel pack. Some of you should actually go creepside and try killing one, pretty much an eye opening expierience on how unkillable some of you are.

I recently bought hundreds (yes hundreds) of crumbling brands. Why? Because Turbine gives me 500 points a month without me giving them any money, and I had 5k in TP sitting around, and I'll be in gw2 when it launches, so I figured I might as well use the TP. The brands are nice for group action when multiple freeps are trying to cc me to death, and they work beautifully, but they're not a full-proof get out of jail free card. It does let me at least move my character for a bit before dying, instead of standing in one place unable to do anything.

I won't apologize for buying them. I don't use them in 1v1 fights. I figure if a freep is willing to 1v1 me and not be a dbag and run away (some of the newer people do), then I'm not going to bother using a brand. But if I have multiple freeps cc'ing me to the point where I can't run or can barely run, hell yes I will use a brand.

Doesn't really matter much anyway. gw1 will be taking up most of my gaming time until gw2 launches, so the brands will sit in my bag unused.

As for freeps or other creeps using them, it makes no difference whatsoever to me. If a freep feels a need to use a brand/store pot in a 1v1 with me, nuttin much I can do about it. Do what makes ya happy.

I was thinking about this earlier, and I can't honestly distinguish between buying skills or buying store pots. This isn't some ploy to make excuses for myself, you'd be hard pressed to find anyone who's ever seen me use one.

The biggest argument against store pots/brands seems to be the unfair advantage they give. How is this different from the advantage Creeps get by having access to skills that they haven't earned? It's a pretty big advantage as a R7 Creep to have access to R10+ skills and traits. I would argue a far bigger advantange than someone getting a few extra heals through store pots, or some extra CC immunity with store brands.

I don't think I can honestly be okay with Creeps buying skills but not be okay with them using store brands or Freeps using store pots/brands. I don't like it, but after thinking about it some more it's kind of hypocritical to choose one over the other. They are essentially the same thing: paying for an advantage you wouldn't otherwise have. I guess this makes me a little less okay with Creeps buying skills and a little more okay with store consumables.

Originally Posted by Lutheran

I'm not so opposed to the warg packs, they tend to put up good fights. I can see how it gets overwhelming at times tho. I really don't see how its any different than the Minstrel packs out tbh. And before you say that the 5-8 Minstrels are not grouped, but are all solo out there, being in the same area still makes it a Minstrel pack. Some of you should actually go creepside and try killing one, pretty much an eye opening expierience on how unkillable some of you are.

Thats sort of a silly statement Luth. Minstrels are extremely powerful right now, no question, but to compare a few ungrouped minstrels to 5-6 grouped wargs is just, well, silly.

Warg packs are nothing but griefing. They pick a single target and spam claws until the target has no more morale. It takes zero skill. With the recent update to Wargs, there is NEVER a reason to have them in packs. It's stupid. I've personally seen a single Warg kill a very well geared/skilled minstrel, whose name I won't mention - but its certainly possible. I've also seen a Weaver do it as well. Granted this was before audacity, but still

Back to your comparison though, even if there are several minstrels in one area, creeps can see them - they know to be mindful and pay attention - you have no warning or chance before the 6 dogs jump on your face. Its WAAAAAAY different. And the worst thing about it is if they have Hips/Sprint up they can get in and out without a single death a lot of times... The only thing you could compare Warg packs to would be a Burg pack - which would be devastating now-a-days. I've yet to see a large one since RoI released... oh the crying we would hear if they did exist lol...

Originally Posted by Lutheran

I'm not so opposed to the warg packs, they tend to put up good fights. I can see how it gets overwhelming at times tho. I really don't see how its any different than the Minstrel packs out tbh. And before you say that the 5-8 Minstrels are not grouped, but are all solo out there, being in the same area still makes it a Minstrel pack. Some of you should actually go creepside and try killing one, pretty much an eye opening expierience on how unkillable some of you are.

I think luth hit the nail right on the head. Sure a group of 4-5 wargs can take down a single freep and yes they are not the same thing as a couple of random freeps being in the same area, whilst the wargs are grouped and coordinating. HOWEVER, I've seen many minstrels beat 2-3 wargs solo and Ive also seen weaker minstrels still kill 1-2 wargs while getting warg-pack ganked before dying. Pair that one minstrel with a captain and the warg pack is nothing but a tasty snack. I've also yet to see a solo warg kill a group of 2-3 minstrels mind you.

Originally Posted by vodpraetor

Thats sort of a silly statement Luth. Minstrels are extremely powerful right now, no question, but to compare a few ungrouped minstrels to 5-6 grouped wargs is just, well, silly.

Warg packs are nothing but griefing. They pick a single target and spam claws until the target has no more morale. It takes zero skill. With the recent update to Wargs, there is NEVER a reason to have them in packs. It's stupid. I've personally seen a single Warg kill a very well geared/skilled minstrel, whose name I won't mention - but its certainly possible. I've also seen a Weaver do it as well. Granted this was before audacity, but still

Back to your comparison though, even if there are several minstrels in one area, creeps can see them - they know to be mindful and pay attention - you have no warning or chance before the 6 dogs jump on your face. Its WAAAAAAY different. And the worst thing about it is if they have Hips/Sprint up they can get in and out without a single death a lot of times... The only thing you could compare Warg packs to would be a Burg pack - which would be devastating now-a-days. I've yet to see a large one since RoI released... oh the crying we would hear if they did exist lol...

I have to agree with Cullin here. Wargs are a pretty good solo gank class, and to have 5 or 6 of them all grouped up is just too devastating. There's a huge difference between a group of enemies you can keep tabs on and play smart to avoid, and a group that comes in stealthed and can assassinate a target in seconds while getting away unscathed. As for burg packs, there has (luckily) been very few, if any, out in quite some time. Though if a burg pack did come out, maybe it would be an eye opening experience for some of these packers to see how really unfair it is.

All of these things you are talking about - store pots/brands/skills, OP classes, packs, zergs, farming ....everyone and I mean EVERYONE is just playing for an advantage some way some how. Even BA stealth is a little OP but I use it whenever I can.

If it gives you the courage to come out from EC, I'm ok with it.

...Which is what this thread was about, wasn't it?

Anyone else notice more freeps away from EC lately? Much appreciated. If it's because of this dialogue, I say cool beans to this thread.

Originally Posted by Fafoo

Though if a burg pack did come out, maybe it would be an eye opening experience for some of these packers to see how really unfair it is.

If a burg pack of 6-12 came out tonight it would show the warg packers nothing why you ask ? because they would never see each other. The advantage to a stealth class is you can sit back and pick your fights and avoid the fights you know you will loose the wargs would be roaming around ganking any squishy they see and the burgs would be doing the same thing the only eye opening experince would be for the newer freeps/creeps to see that stealth is the way to go to avoid being ganked or ran over by a zerg.

The only thing I have ever seen make a warg pack log is for a #### ton of hunters to come out and spam track and chase them down the majority of the wargs that pack up are just easymoding and as soon as they have to think or work for a kill they will log

Originally Posted by skeetskeet_yo

I think luth hit the nail right on the head. Sure a group of 4-5 wargs can take down a single freep and yes they are not the same thing as a couple of random freeps being in the same area, whilst the wargs are grouped and coordinating. HOWEVER, I've seen many minstrels beat 2-3 wargs solo and Ive also seen weaker minstrels still kill 1-2 wargs while getting warg-pack ganked before dying. Pair that one minstrel with a captain and the warg pack is nothing but a tasty snack. I've also yet to see a solo warg kill a group of 2-3 minstrels mind you.

I think you missed my point Loki. Minstrels > Wargs without a doubt, it's not even close in my experience, I never meant to suggest otherwise. What I was trying to say, and what Blulum picked up on, was that a pack of wargs, in stealth, with focused fire and the ability to get away unscathed is much more of a nuisance/grievance than a few ungrouped minstrels who are more than likely hitting different targets most of the time.

Also, I think I play my minstrel pretty well out there... I dare say there is no minstrel thats going to get away from 2 high ranked skilled Wargs that know what they're doing (and willing to blow CD's). What you likely witnessed was a solid minstrel kill a couple of puppies that were either green or just sucked.

Originally Posted by vodpraetor

I think you missed my point Loki. Minstrels > Wargs without a doubt, it's not even close in my experience, I never meant to suggest otherwise. What I was trying to say, and what Blulum picked up on, was that a pack of wargs, in stealth, with focused fire and the ability to get away unscathed is much more of a nuisance/grievance than a few ungrouped minstrels who are more than likely hitting different targets most of the time.

Also, I think I play my minstrel pretty well out there... I dare say there is no minstrel thats going to get away from 2 high ranked skilled Wargs that know what they're doing (and willing to blow CD's). What you likely witnessed was a solid minstrel kill a couple of puppies that were either green or just sucked.

I see, yeah for sure the warg packs are definitely more of a grievance and lends itself to mauling one lone freep and then hipsing out when his buddies come. What I was referring to with the minstrel destroying wargs, was prior to update 6, so I understand that now they are a little tougher and so you're probably right, could probably only be just greenies now.

But I do stand by what I said....If there is a warg pack out and saaaay you're a captain and tired of getting ganked by it. Group up with 2 minstrels (just for over kill) and go to town on the pack. You'll be enjoying tons of points that way.

Originally Posted by skeetskeet_yo

But I do stand by what I said....If there is a warg pack out and saaaay you're a captain and tired of getting ganked by it. Group up with 2 minstrels (just for over kill) and go to town on the pack. You'll be enjoying tons of points that way.

Oh for sure... I think Jepith and Tst have been destroying peeps and raking in points like that.

Anyone in a warg pack is a waste of oxygen. Carry on

Looking for warg pack, pst Vulfen.

Originally Posted by thunderchickn

I was thinking about this earlier, and I can't honestly distinguish between buying skills or buying store pots. This isn't some ploy to make excuses for myself, you'd be hard pressed to find anyone who's ever seen me use one.

The biggest argument against store pots/brands seems to be the unfair advantage they give. How is this different from the advantage Creeps get by having access to skills that they haven't earned? It's a pretty big advantage as a R7 Creep to have access to R10+ skills and traits. I would argue a far bigger advantange than someone getting a few extra heals through store pots, or some extra CC immunity with store brands.

I don't think I can honestly be okay with Creeps buying skills but not be okay with them using store brands or Freeps using store pots/brands. I don't like it, but after thinking about it some more it's kind of hypocritical to choose one over the other. They are essentially the same thing: paying for an advantage you wouldn't otherwise have. I guess this makes me a little less okay with Creeps buying skills and a little more okay with store consumables.

Freeps hit the moors with all skills in hand and up until recently top tier gear (audacity sets are replacing these now). While creeps start out with next to no skills, and none of them very powerful.

how i look at it

Store skills make fights more even, while store consumables gives the opponent with the bigger wallet more of an advantage.

Ya sorry but bying store pots and using them in the moors doesn't compare to someone buying skills off of the turbine store. Freeps have all of their skills when they come out to the moors (at least most of them do) and don't have to worry about ranking up to get their skills. A freep new in the moors can as good as one of the highest rank freeps provided he knows his class. A new creep is done for. Buying the skills early just gives them a better chance of having some survivability out there.

Store potting is the moors is pathetic. No other way to put it in my mind. You already have regular health pots, not to mention any heal skills you class may have, morale bubbles, and other escape skills. There is no reason to use a store pot in the moors. You might die a little more. If you do die congrats your on your way to make the moors a little more enjoyable.

Originally Posted by t-town-colt

Ya sorry but bying store pots and using them in the moors doesn't compare to someone buying skills off of the turbine store. Freeps have all of their skills when they come out to the moors (at least most of them do) and don't have to worry about ranking up to get their skills. A freep new in the moors can as good as one of the highest rank freeps provided he knows his class. A new creep is done for. Buying the skills early just gives them a better chance of having some survivability out there.

Store potting is the moors is pathetic. No other way to put it in my mind. You already have regular health pots, not to mention any heal skills you class may have, morale bubbles, and other escape skills. There is no reason to use a store pot in the moors. You might die a little more. If you do die congrats your on your way to make the moors a little more enjoyable.

Why should lets say a full time ranked creep who doesn't freep not spend their monthly points on items from the store?

In the end i really don't care, everyone is free to spend their money how they wish.

Epic fail, Freeps!

Originally Posted by Blackheart-Fury

Epic fail, Freeps!

Shoooo rother.

this thread rocks!!!!hahah nice reply dir...sounds like a fun night.

On what you said about store pots.

Anyone who has used these marvelous bits of godmode can understand why it'd be frowned upon to use them in PvMP settings.

Of course, some will make the argument that none of the freepside PVE content warrants store pots, either, but I digress. I just wanted to /agree with the statement that store pots = p2w. My personal thought process is - player vs. player fights should be on equal ground. I don't use scrolls, tokens, etc...but they're not hard to acquire in-game, and pretty much balances the creepside consumable buffs. The restoration pots however....




What does this have to do with the actual thread? Not a darn thing!

i hardly come out to the moors on freep side anymore because freeps are just stupid. nuff said

tl;dr like 90% of the rest of the thread.

But /sigh. I always miss opportunities to run in and die repeatedly in hopes that most other freeps (majority of whom will never ever read this post or agree with the idea, but meh) actually learn to be aggressive. Can we be aggressive now? A virtual death doesn't mean you die in real life, it means you just get to run back. I want PVP, not PVE+whining on forums because 'we can play how we want'.

(not even worth going out to the Moors much anymore, imo, always just frustration at getting stuck out in the open due to other freeps running for their lives because they get scared or whatever. &&& is this.)

hoping that with the creeps being buffed to make thing even with RoR alot of the noob freeps will have to get better or just leave so i can go out and have some fun again its not even worth it atm

Well just saying freeps fail is kind of harsh. I logged on today and was soloing some greens for about thirty minutes. I guess they called out to mommy because the creeps with big boy pants came and wiped me, about six. Then the kin started up a group. We had about six people ten at the highest point of the night. We roamed around chasing the roaming creeps, not greens. After they wiped a few times it was Ta fest as usual. We went up and cleared TR for about thirty minutes and farmed some greens then flipped TR...oddly enough the creeps with big boy pants tried to attack at a certain point when TR was falling, but decided to bail. Then there was three times as many freeps after that. WE still stayed in our little group and flipped LC knowing we would be fighting at TA (nono to npcs if we have to come to you) Then we wiped a few times being overly aggressive.....just another day in the moors.

IMO I didn't see anything to praise on creep side yesterday...

Originally Posted by Kajil

But /sigh. I always miss opportunities to run in and die repeatedly in hopes that most other freeps (majority of whom will never ever read this post or agree with the idea, but meh)

Why is it that so few of the newer freeps (whom are now ranked and make up the majority) do not read our forums? I mean half the fun of this game, to me, used to being pvping with words as it did with my character. But I guess they just don't care, which Is why I would suggest to those who are finding it frustrating to take up the reigns and lead the Fraid.

Take Puvii for example, he came back from Swtor, didn't like the way some freeps have been playing and has taken up leading the PUGS to try and change that.

IMO I didn't see anything to praise on creep side yesterday...

Haha do you ever find something to praise creep side? I think I remember the night you were referring to and IIRC our group (probably equal in size to yall's) was struggling defending the keeps. There were just soooo many freeps out that we would wipe one group, hear that the MOH was a TR, but map in to late to stop it.

While I don't speak for creep side, I'm just trying to point out that when we're outnumbered, just keeping our heads above water and preventing the creep group from being rick-rolled should earn a certain amount of praise IMO.

Originally Posted by Daec

Don't worry, I still play from time to time.

Ima let you finish, but shadowrun is the best player of all time!

Originally Posted by Daec

Don't worry, I still play from time to time.

Do you? Perhaps there is still hope

FYI, This thread is kind of dated and the original topic/title is no longer relevant to the recent chit-chat. I'd lock it or request a lock if I knew how but, alas, I do not.

Oh come on Yum...you don't seriously want to squash the most entertaining thread in quite some time do you?