Thread: Trollshaws revamp -- another request

This has been requested several times before, but it's been long enough since the last time that I wanted to revive the discussion.

Trollshaws is a zone that I *want* to love. It's closely tied to the lore, and the world-builders did a phenomenal job of creating the landscape. It's beautiful.

But I still spend as little time as possible in the Trollshaws, except for Rivendell. The reasons are well-known and oft-bemoaned: inconvenient travel and sparse, non-continuous questing.

I don't think the zone needs a full overhaul. I certainly don't want to see lots of new campsites; that would remove the "wilderness" feeling.

I think the best solution is to create an "Orchalwe" or two. Create a few new quests in out-of-the-way areas and a mobile quest-giver to accompany the player. Since so many corners of the Trollshaws are elite-mob zones, having a mobile quest-giver to help out seems like an especially suitable solution.

Come on Turbine -- you *know* we want this!

I fully agree with this, in spirit and implementation.

great idea.

I do however think a full revamp is necessary.

We also need to have better quest flow: questing should go in an west to east fashion, starting with Barachen's Camp->Thorenhead->Echad Candelleth->Rivendell.

-Echad Candelleth needs its levels adjusted. As it is, they are very jarring - an L44-45 area suddenly juxtaposed to an area with mobs 10 levels lower.

-The group content needs to be toned down. For instance, the elite spiders in the northwestern part of the Trollshaws could probably stand to be bumped down to signatures, making it challenging but doable for soloers.

-More quests. We could have, like you said, some of them, with the NPC helping. We could have more quest chains from Echad Candelleth and Thorenhead, some quest arcs akin to the Orchewele's journal in the Tinnudir quest arc. I also think that we need more quests that award Rivendell reputation to make that faction less of a grind.

-Swift travels. Much like Evendim, I would like to see swift travel routes to and from all the stable locations in the Trollshaws. There also should be more - at the very least, I'd also like to see a stable master added at Barachen's Camp with swift travel options between it and Ost Guruth.

-An overarching story. Evendim did this beautifully: we had a big story about the Rangers working to reclaim Annuminas and Evendim from all sorts of nasty stuff - robbers and brigands, Angmarim, trolls, giants, guaredan and so forth. We could have a twofold storyarc, about your toon's first journey to Rivendell and helping the Elves contain the various evils of the Trollshaws: the spiders, the trolls, the giants and so on along the way.

I think North Downs is next on the list.
But I would like a few things in Trollshaws.

1. Those Stables. Barachan specifically, and more Swift Travel.

2. Add some Rangers, Trollshaws is Ranger ground, but they arent there.

3. Expand to South Trollshaws near the Last Bridge. There are some beautiful red trees there I would love to see again.

4. Yes revamp quests, barachan hub has about 10 quests and is about 40% of the TS area wise. Could easily have more quests.

5. Yes for Story, TS is very random.

Originally Posted by Armaius;6078731[/quote

-The group content needs to be toned down. For instance, the elite spiders in the northwestern part of the Trollshaws could probably stand to be bumped down to signatures, making it challenging but doable for soloers.

Absolutely not.
If you want to not do group content, that's your choice, but leave these 'challenging' group content areas challenging for on-level GROUPs. (Dol Dinen, North Trollshaws. certain landscape towns in Angmar.etc.)

Absolutely not.
If you want to not do group content, that's your choice, but leave these 'challenging' group content areas challenging for on-level GROUPs. (Dol Dinen, North Trollshaws. certain landscape towns in Angmar.etc.)

Absolutely yes. It's content going to waste because nobody does it anymore.

From Lonelands to Trollshaw. I level up Most of my toons. Even skipped Northdowns. It not like going into a level 30 zone then walk in a level 50 zone Where there a 20 level Gap.

I agree that travel is tedious in the Trollshaws but the roads are there and the map is specific. It's not like Moria: if I don't buy a ride, I get lost for an hour. So, I think this is a small issue.
A bigger issuefor me is the dearth of reputation quests. Everyone who I've spoken to about it agrees that Reputation with the Elves of Rivendell is the hardest one to get. I've exhausted all the applicable solo quests in Rivendell and the Misty Mts. and now I just keep running up to Goblin Town for more reputation items. I don't mind doing some of this but a few more quests would be more interesting.

Originally Posted by Armaius

snip

I don't need to make a big long post, because you did it for me.

Cheers bud.

Edit: I especially support the request for an overarching storyline. For me that's part of what made Evendim so great to quest in. By the end of it I truly felt like I had made a difference, even if it doesn't seem that way from outward appearance.

Originally Posted by Issachar44

This has been requested several times before, but it's been long enough since the last time that I wanted to revive the discussion.
Trollshaws is a zone that I *want* to love. It's closely tied to the lore, and the world-builders did a phenomenal job of creating the landscape. It's beautiful.

But I still spend as little time as possible in the Trollshaws, except for Rivendell. The reasons are well-known and oft-bemoaned: inconvenient travel and sparse, non-continuous questing.
I don't think the zone needs a full overhaul. I certainly don't want to see lots of new campsites; that would remove the "wilderness" feeling.
I think the best solution is to create an "Orchalwe" or two. Create a few new quests in out-of-the-way areas and a mobile quest-giver to accompany the player. Since so many corners of the Trollshaws are elite-mob zones, having a mobile quest-giver to help out seems like an especially suitable solution.

Come on Turbine -- you *know* we want this!

Especially for the Lore I would love for this also!

Deeds:
Killing Elite Trolls on level for the Deed is an exhausting prospect.

Worms while easy to kill are not in a significant number to make this deed easy, often sharing Spawn points with other garbage mobs like those Green and red frogs/toads.

Crafting:
I suppose I may have missed it in my last go through the area but Rivendel seems to lack some Superior crafting stations.


I think a few more ranger encampments would be a good idea as well.

Highly seconded.

What is more important (IMHO) is that the trollshaws are the first time that the epic story line sucks.

I think this is very unfortunate since it can make players stop in the mid-levels and not continue leveling up. Myself I find that I have quite a few characters parked right there because I don't feel like doing the same taxi career for every single one of them. I think an effort to make the epic storyline in the trollshaws "better" (whatever that means but certainly less postman quests) will pay off big time in player retention and maybe even in number of characters reaching Moria.

The biggest problem is of course the lack of ST routes, when most routes in and out of Rivendell are close to 3-5 minutes one-way. This is compounded by the number of times you're forced to return to Rivendell to talk to Elrond, then turn around and head right back out to where you just were.

Its made even worse by the fact that the Rivendell stables are at the opposite end of town from Elrond's house, and the Guest Houses are also pretty removed from both Elrond and the stables, plus the fact that Rivendell itself is a maze of bridges and rivers and you're likely to end up swimming in the Bruinen if you go AFK or leave the window for even a few seconds while riding your horse through town.

My simple fix recommendations, ignoring the idea of a storyline revamp for now, would be:

-add a stablemaster at the Last Homely House, similar to how we have West and South Bree, or Inner CG and CG Gate (though those arent connected). It would connect with a ST route to Rivendell stables, making Elrond and Frodo and Bilbo and Gandalf a little easier to access for all those times you have to find them.
-add ST from Rivendell to EC and Thorenhad. This much is pretty obvious.

Just those two things alone would serve to make the Shaws feel a lot more fluid and less trudgy...

I don't think that stablemasters are the solution here.

The quest design sucks. Just fill it up with something to do while moving from A to B.

Originally Posted by Armaius

Absolutely yes. It's content going to waste because nobody does it anymore.

I did them. In a group. On level. Just takes a bit of effort to find others doing them.

I don't think the solution to a preponderance of group quests is to weaken monsters so they can be soloed. Seems like there should be SOME things you just can't do on your own. They've already soloified a lot of things, I for one don't want to see every single landscape quest soloable.

Originally Posted by Vilan

I did them. In a group. On level. Just takes a bit of effort to find others doing them.

I've done some of the Trollshaws group quests as well, also on level. I stumbled into a group by complete accident - wasn't looking to do them or anything. They're frankly not worth the effort.

The truth of the matter is you might get lucky as I did or you might have friends or kinmates. I repeat: nobody does this content anymore. Why would you want to put forth the effort into searching for a group - which could take a while to find - whenever you could be doing other things? You could be leveling or questing and enjoying the soloable storyarcs elsewhere? Which would you rather be doing? Standing around and pleading in the chat or exploring other parts of Middle Earth?

I don't think the solution to a preponderance of group quests is to weaken monsters so they can be soloed. Seems like there should be SOME things you just can't do on your own. They've already soloified a lot of things, I for one don't want to see every single landscape quest soloable.

We have SOME things you just can't do on your own: instances, raids and so forth. Because frankly, I feel that this is a problem. Unlike the solo stuff in the game, the landscape group content has a sell-by date. People stop doing it whenever the cap goes up, assuming they do it at all. What do you propose to change it?

Trollshaws revamp:

1) Swift travel. This is the thing that has ANNOYED me for years regarding trollshaws. I'd rather fall off a cliff to my death and respawn at Thorenhad, rather than take a horse in Trollshaws. With just the addition of swift travel, trollshaws becomes 100% more desirable place to explore. This has to be, by far my favorite zone in an aestherical way. It is the prettiest zone by far, yet the most annoying place to travel, making it something I do not do unless I have to.

2) quests. Someone mentioned it before, but a lot of the quests I came across did nto give Elves of Rivendell Faction...(
A more contiguous quest chain that can be done in corelation to the Epic story that gave faction with the elves would be a much more suitable way to bring intrest back into this desolate region.

3) Gear. Is there anything worthwhile from this? a Revamp, sort of along the lines of Evendim in regards to 'faction' armor would again make this a desirable place to explore.

4) Instances: I would love to see more 'instanced' quests. Either soloable or done with groups, I would love to see more.

Originally Posted by Armaius

I've done some of the Trollshaws group quests as well, also on level. I stumbled into a group by complete accident - wasn't looking to do them or anything. They're frankly not worth the effort.

The truth of the matter is you might get lucky as I did or you might have friends or kinmates. I repeat: nobody does this content anymore. Why would you want to put forth the effort into searching for a group - which could take a while to find - whenever you could be doing other things? You could be leveling or questing and enjoying the soloable storyarcs elsewhere? Which would you rather be doing? Standing around and pleading in the chat or exploring other parts of Middle Earth?

I've done all of the Trollshaws group quests on level, and I agree with you completely. I think the game would lose very little by getting rid of them. Making the quests in that area soloable would help to provide a smoother leveling experience, much as they've done with Evendim and the Lone Lands.

I like the idea of having "scary," group-oriented landscape areas, such as Limlight Gorge, at level cap because that's where the bulk of the player base resides--at level cap. Depending on the server a player is on, and the typical time of day of playing, one can wait for a long, long time to find a group at a lower level simply because there aren't that many players of that level online in that particular area at any given time. This is what I believe caused them to remove all of the elite landscape mobs from the Lone Lands, and I think the same logic should/will prevail in the Trollshaws, assuming of course that they actually decide to redo the area.

So, back on topic, I fully support a Trollshaws revamp, and I think this area needs a revamp more than any other area in the game for the reasons articulated in this thread. I'd like to see the Misty Mountains and the North Downs revamped as well, but I think the Trollshaws is in more dire need.

I would love a Trollshaws revamp!


/signed

Mmm...

I solo a lot, and experience simply dictates to avoid trollshaws like the plague, to many elite creatures around, beautiful but travel unfriendly maps, not many quests there to assist leveling is another problem; instead I do the Evendim series starting at King's Crossing and working my way up to Annuminas, those 90+ quests will get you from 30 to 40 quite comfortably, if you take advantage of resting bonuses, and do all the quests attaining 42 is not much of a challenge at Evendim, also nice stories there.

If Trollshaws is going to see any use from me in any of my characters in the future, it will require major rework, to make it as leveling appealing as Evendim. I would begin by taking all the elites out of the open and placing them only in group instances, to make the zone more solo and player friendly, as it is done in Evendim as well.

Hugs

Sue

Originally Posted by Armaius

I've done some of the Trollshaws group quests as well, also on level. I stumbled into a group by complete accident - wasn't looking to do them or anything. They're frankly not worth the effort.

The truth of the matter is you might get lucky as I did or you might have friends or kinmates. I repeat: nobody does this content anymore. Why would you want to put forth the effort into searching for a group - which could take a while to find - whenever you could be doing other things? You could be leveling or questing and enjoying the soloable storyarcs elsewhere? Which would you rather be doing? Standing around and pleading in the chat or exploring other parts of Middle Earth?

Any non-solo stuff is going to take time to form a group, no matter what. I would like to see some better tools in-game for finding groups rather than making more things soloable. A way to mark multiple quests in your log as "LFF" and some way to see which others online are looking for them. Then it would be simple to send those people tells and make a group. Right now I don't mind putting effort in to find a group because I enjoy group play more than solo. Making finding groups easier would help everyone enjoy this content. Unless by "not worth the effort" you mean the quest rewards suck or the storyline is boring, but those are separate things.

One of the things I loved about Lone Lands was that inevitably, you would up doing GA over and over again. Some did it, got their quests done and bailed, but for me, I enjoyed doign this over and over again. I have yet to make a toon that hasn't run GA because its fun. I did Arboretum with a level 32 guardian, 32 LM and a 32 hunter. And we didn't wipe or fail on the tree.

This is teh sort of group content I would love to see implemented in trollshaws. Some sort of 'end game (or more like end quest chain) dungeon run that requires 3man or 6man to complete and is fun enough to run over and over to a) get the marks you need to buy the blue epic weapon, or b) is fun enough to run it again and again.

There needs to be a more fluid quest chain that runs from Thorenhad and ultimately to Rivendell that grabts Rivendell faction along the way. Misty Mountains doesn't cut it, and while Goblin town drops the reputation items, is long and out of the way, unless you use the instance join, and that instance requires six man. It's not...desirable.

I liked Evendim's quest chain a ton, but ultimately, I felt that the faction gain was too much. You hardly, if ever need any reputation items to max out Warden faction and ultimately makes Annuminas an unneeded place to explore. But, overall, I love Evendim, the revamp made a place I adore into a place I love and I will ultimately take every toon I have there, because it is worth it.

and SWIFT TRAVEL!
This is like the ONLY zone that doesn't do swift travel. ?????????????????????????????? ?
Why? You have aswift travel from South Bree to West Bree, but not from Thorenhad to Rivendell? Or any other place along the way??? The trollshaws is one of teh LONGEST zones in game and going fron one end to the other takes a horendously long time. It's actually faster to jump off a high cliff and respawn at Thorenhad, than it is to ride from anywhere to Thorenhad.

It's also faster to travel from Rivendell to Ost Guruth and over to Thornehad. This doesn't make any sense.

Originally Posted by Vilan

Any non-solo stuff is going to take time to form a group, no matter what. I would like to see some better tools in-game for finding groups rather than making more things soloable. A way to mark multiple quests in your log as "LFF" and some way to see which others online are looking for them. Then it would be simple to send those people tells and make a group. Right now I don't mind putting effort in to find a group because I enjoy group play more than solo. Making finding groups easier would help everyone enjoy this content. Unless by "not worth the effort" you mean the quest rewards suck or the storyline is boring, but those are separate things.

I mean exactly both of the things you mentioned. The storylines are forgettable and the quest rewards are lackluster. It is not worth the effort or time to put together a group to do the content, even if better grouping tools are implemented.

I agree entirely. I found myself running around the Trollshaws in part, in stealth mode or hugging cliff walls and hiding behind rocks just so i could complete the epic quests without having elite trolls attack in groups, and on a smaller server it's almost impossible to find a group to complete this content. That's not to say that absolutely everything needs to be soloable - but maybe they could tone it down a bit?

Or, alternatively, maybe they could implement something like the Elfstone inspiration buff from Volume 1 Book 4 that would work in these areas as long as the player isn't in a fellowship? That would at least make it more possible to complete some of this content.

Originally Posted by teviko

One of the things I loved about Lone Lands was that inevitably, you would up doing GA over and over again. Some did it, got their quests done and bailed, but for me, I enjoyed doign this over and over again. I have yet to make a toon that hasn't run GA because its fun. I did Arboretum with a level 32 guardian, 32 LM and a 32 hunter. And we didn't wipe or fail on the tree.

This is teh sort of group content I would love to see implemented in trollshaws. Some sort of 'end game (or more like end quest chain) dungeon run that requires 3man or 6man to complete and is fun enough to run over and over to a) get the marks you need to buy the blue epic weapon, or b) is fun enough to run it again and again.

Completely agreed. GA was very well-designed and lots of fun (though not the most attractive place in the world), and I'd love to see something similar in the Trollshaws. (Actually I'd also love to see GA scalable - would like to be able to do it again. I learned a lot about group maneuvers and how to play my hunter within a group while running that instance. But that's another thread..)

I love Evendim, nice looking place, great quest chain, and probably the best story of any region I've been in. I don't even think I'd mind doing it over a few times for leveling my other characters.

Trollshaws, well, I've been tempted to buy it a few times, but it always comes back to lacking profit. You can get more Rivendell experience in the Misty Mountains than in the Trollshaws, and I have yet to see the Giants, Trolls, Spiders, and whatnot people talk about despite exploring a good half of the map. I visit Rivendell all the time, and the temptation to get rid of the little "buy Trollshaws quest pack" button is great, but it's just not worth it to me. I go to a quest hub, see two quests, leave. Next one, two more, leave. Rivendell, maybe 15 scattered about, and I find that one is for Evendim and three are for the Misty Mountains. And there's that one spot with a good dozen quests that actually looks sort of fun, only it's buried away in the bottom of the map behind the mountains, and since update six, my horse loves getting stuck on the long ride.

It needs a story. Probably can't get as elaborate as Evendim, no Angmarian invaders or Tombs to rob, or Annuminas to defend. But something about the Trolls, or the Giants, or both, maybe. I don't know, I need to look around more. But something.

This thread needs a bump (and good thing I found it or I'd have made a new one).

In addition to Swift Travels there is one thing this area needs that I haven't found mentioned yet.

A Rez Circle by Echad Candelleth.

Right now if you fall off/ride off/jump off/are pushed off a cliff near Echad Candelleth (and there's like a million chances for that) you end up by Thorenhad. I honestly quit the game for a few days when that happened for the first time.

I dont think the quest flow is bad if we got swift travel.

There is room for more quests though in my opinion, there are many places and mob groups that are never touched because you never end up anywhere close (the troll cities and Giant Valley (to an extent) for example, and the wood-trolls in the north).

I like all the quests, even the group quests, but I don't think there should be such a number of fellowship quests at mid-levels. Make them small fellowship and they become soloable (but challenging!).

Reputation - if in Evendim you max out your rep just by doing quests (not using rep items!) before you even get to Annuminas, in Trollshaws getting anywhere with the rep is exhausting. You get some in Trollshaws but a lot of it is in Goblintown (especially the rep items) and you get some in Eregion, too. I wish there was some place in Trollshaws you could reliably get rep (I wouldn't count Barad Glamgil as a reliable place).

Deeds - There could be at least one easy deed for the area, you could scrap Crawler-slayer and place Spider-slayer or Beast-slayer there, no one would miss it.

All in all Trollshaws is a wondrous area with beautiful scenery and music and it is very, very sad to hear people skipping or dismissing it because of the difficult travel, small number of difficult group quests or hard deeds.

TS and MM both need a revamp. Solo can be kind of a pain for the north end of it. One issue is the terrain but then again you shouldnt be able to skip around in the TS, even Strider couldnt find a clear path through it. But a SM up north would be welcome, and at least one ST from Rivendale to either of the two main hubs would be nice. Also Rivendale rep should be awarded by the elves there.