So, wardens are routinely now soloing the Tyrants of keeps.
Worse yet, creeps are told by other creeps not to attack the freep (in an open PVP zone I used to think) so the warden can continue to over and over again prove he is way stronger than necessary for the Moors.
I know I am a minority in thinking there is a problem here..both with the strength of a class in particular, but the regarding the freep "untouchable". I just really had to vent it out.
On top of his soloing large group mobs, the warden has 4 full rows and more of his healing Battle thing come up, making him nearly impossible for a large group to bring him down. I was told there is a limit to how many stacks that battle buff can have..what is it? Ninety??? I see it continue to climb as more and more creeps make attempts...futile attempts at that to bring him down.
So, wardens are routinely now soloing the Tyrants of keeps.
Worse yet, creeps are told by other creeps not to attack the freep (in an open PVP zone I used to think) so the warden can continue to over and over again prove he is way stronger than necessary for the Moors.
I know I am a minority in thinking there is a problem here..both with the strength of a class in particular, but the regarding the freep "untouchable". I just really had to vent it out.
On top of his soloing large group mobs, the warden has 4 full rows and more of his healing Battle thing come up, making him nearly impossible for a large group to bring him down. I was told there is a limit to how many stacks that battle buff can have..what is it? Ninety??? I see it continue to climb as more and more creeps make attempts...futile attempts at that to bring him down.
Pathetic in my opinion.
Wardens have a higher morale per second healing output on themselves than a ranked defiler. Food for thought on the healing balance.
"Spiders CC is unbearable... it's just as bad as loremasters" ~ Brodster
So, wardens are routinely now soloing the Tyrants of keeps.
Worse yet, creeps are told by other creeps not to attack the freep (in an open PVP zone I used to think) so the warden can continue to over and over again prove he is way stronger than necessary for the Moors.
I know I am a minority in thinking there is a problem here..both with the strength of a class in particular, but the regarding the freep "untouchable". I just really had to vent it out.
On top of his soloing large group mobs, the warden has 4 full rows and more of his healing Battle thing come up, making him nearly impossible for a large group to bring him down. I was told there is a limit to how many stacks that battle buff can have..what is it? Ninety??? I see it continue to climb as more and more creeps make attempts...futile attempts at that to bring him down.
Pathetic in my opinion.
If you are playing a creep class with power debuff, youll eat wardens for breakfast. Not even joking. But if you dont have power debuff than yeah, they are unkillable.
If Orion revamped the burglar class I wonder if touch and go would become a toggle skill?
Originally Posted by whitefox1313
If you are playing a creep class with power debuff, youll eat wardens for breakfast. Not even joking. But if you dont have power debuff than yeah, they are unkillable.
You'll kill extremely bad wardens, maybe.
Some ancient Italian maxim fits our situation, whose particulars escape me.
Why? Very good wardens have some power regen ability that bad wardens dont have? In fact, in 1vs1, the only class that give me trouble is tops RKs...everything else is fairly easy. And some of them are awesome soloers.
Originally Posted by Rainyman
That is incorrect.
***EDIT*** I didnt express myself properly. I should have refer to the defiler class (with Flies traited) and not all creep class with power debuff.
I apologize for my mistake.
Last edited by whitefox1313; Mar 29 2012 at 02:37 PM.
If you are playing a creep class with power debuff, youll eat wardens for breakfast. Not even joking. But if you dont have power debuff than yeah, they are unkillable.
What kind of power debuff are you hinting at here? A weaver power drain will not resolve a warden fight.
STROZZAPRETI 10/X6|RIGATONI 8|GNOCCHI 7|MACCHERONI 7|RAVIOLI 6|FUSILLI 6 ASTERIX|CHARAKHA|KHAGATAI|VORO RIP Nidor, we miss ya.
Not even that, Wardens power restore gambit which required them to be 50% morale can now be spam-able.
I watched a warden solo 4 creeps I think they were all rank 5 and apart from the first minute the warden never went below 90% morale and 90% power.
The one effective power draining effect on wardens is the defiler traited flies, which seem to bypass mitigation with their drain.
Spider drains are mitigated as common damage.
The funny thing about dark before the dawn gambit is that it is very good damage, even in determination stance. Really a shield warden can just heal himself and work dark before the dawn into his gambit cycle and beat anything under the sun without much effort.
"Spiders CC is unbearable... it's just as bad as loremasters" ~ Brodster
It is so funny that the same people that cry about QQ on forums that have always (and always will) contain QQ all have signatures of rank 11-13 minstrels.....
It is so funny that the same people that cry about QQ on forums that have always (and always will) contain QQ all have signatures of rank 11-13 minstrels.....
Awww I'm sorry, Mr. BA
♦ R13 Minstrel ♦ Guardians of the Dagorlad ♦ Jaiyne ♦
Yes and the QQ that echoed loud about BA's just after Isengard no longer exists for a reason.. we took a large hit with audacity just like all other DPS classes..
But even then when BA's were on the rather OP side (which had more to do with lack of freep gear than anything) I would have been one of the first to admit it and did not fault freeps for complaining.
Now you play a class that is 2-3 times worse than the BA ever was and you try to silence anyone who thinks you should not be that way.
So no need for you to be sorry, really, but you have my condulences when the Minstrel finds its well deserved nerf and you quit the class.
So no need for you to be sorry, really, but you have my condulences when the Minstrel finds its well deserved nerf and you quit the class.
I have played my minstrel since before WS. I won't ever quit my class. I left this game and went to SW when creep mits were bugged, and have sat at the same rank since before RoI...
So yeah, I'm just sick and tired of people crying all over the forums honestly. It's just enough already.
♦ R13 Minstrel ♦ Guardians of the Dagorlad ♦ Jaiyne ♦
I have played my minstrel since before WS. I won't ever quit my class. I left this game and went to SW when creep mits were bugged, and have sat at the same rank since before RoI...
So yeah, I'm just sick and tired of people crying all over the forums honestly. It's just enough already.
This just saddens me and fills me with QQ:
An estimated sixty million feral cats live in the United States today. These cats are victims of unfortunate circumstances brought on by people who do not understand the problems they have created by refusing to spay/ neuter their pets and abandoning them when ownership becomes either impossible or no longer desireable. Unsterilized cats eventually band together in groups called colonies. Surviving on meager scraps, these colonies grow. You can find them everywhere. In particular, commercial, industrial, and military facilities have become havens for feral cats tying to survive. Ferals also live in wooded areas, storm sewers, and drainage ditches. Visit the Feral Cat Coalition for more information.
I realize that I can't hug every cat, but this just fills me with sadness, I am sorry that my QQ bothers you. I didn't realize you hated Kittens
Xnoy - rank something or other Warg, and Wyver - rank mango fiesta delight Defiler
I have played my minstrel since before WS. I won't ever quit my class. I left this game and went to SW when creep mits were bugged, and have sat at the same rank since before RoI...
So yeah, I'm just sick and tired of people crying all over the forums honestly. It's just enough already.
Funny. Especially because you are a minstrel.
Let me ask you something. Roll a creep. Invest a good amount of time, and get to about rank 8 +. Feel like you should be powerful? Now 1v1 a minstrel. Would you not complain?
Healerstevo - Rank 6 Warleader
Blackbowstevo - Rank 6 Blackarrow
Browsing the forums till GW2 is released.
Let me ask you something. Roll a creep. Invest a good amount of time, and get to about rank 8 +. Feel like you should be powerful? Now 1v1 a minstrel. Would you not complain?
I have a R9 warg - ranked her to 9 in 2008 actually, then switched and started to learn how to play freepside, where I have played the last several years. I love both sides. I just generally love PvMP and the potential it has in this game, but hasn't been realized yet.
I kill minstrels all.the.time.on my warg, particularly since U6. Granted, I am not a very good warg anymore (if I ever was) and I purposely pick fights with people I think I can actually beat...but, there's just far too much crying these days across the board.
Turbine is not going to nerf my class - or wardens, champs, whatever else people feel are OP because of a forum post(s). And the "data" that gets thrown around in fits of rage? It isn't actual data.
It's time people were honest. Good minstrels were always hard to beat. Very hard. Bad minstrels were always easy. Today, bad/average minstrels are harder to kill than before and that's why people cry about them. People just want their easy kills back.
Just my opinion, of course.
Regardless, I believe that Turbine will copy the SWTOR model and nerf heals across the board by a flat percentage once people get more audacity. Maybe I'm wrong but this is my feeling.
♦ R13 Minstrel ♦ Guardians of the Dagorlad ♦ Jaiyne ♦
Wardens can only stack 10 unique heals from EoB (leach) line. It has been this way since update six...I feel four lines of heals may be an exaggeration.
Also, wardens were soloing keeps before RoI. Why do we keep forgetting this? I almost soloed TA after update 5 traited spear, died to creeps showing up. Funny thing is if you attack the warden they will die, especially if you use a little thing called cc. Warg disarm will potentially wipe out huge (1k+) chunks of morale, there are plenty of skills that reduce incoming healing, and you can easily wipe out the wardens power.
Originally Posted by Thorebane
Not even that, Wardens power restore gambit which required them to be 50% morale can now be spam-able.
Can creeps no longer disarm? Silence? Blight? Knockdown? Daze? Stun? Surely you see where I am going with this. Dark Before Dawn (power return) does not return nearly the same amount it did before U6.
Oh, and I would be very, very impressed indeed if a shield warden could down a tyrant in 1:10 (the time you have to worry about brands/pots.) Store brands are one minute, aren't they? I honestly don't know.
Originally Posted by petaloudas00
back to the topic...
morale leaches didnt have limit a week ago but now it has,10.
a warden with shield traits cannot die but cannot kill too.if you see one and you dont have a group with you just run away simple.
Or kill from range.
Last edited by cmal; Mar 29 2012 at 06:50 PM.
Cmalberg - Elendilmir
-Stickygritz, Gritzwarr, and all those Gritz. Greblam
How could he solo the tyrant when taskmasters are next ti them?
Hitchens(r9 warg), Glasgow(R9 LM), Branywine server.
"fleeing in the face of certain death is not cowardice. Cowardice is running from a fair fight" - wise words from Champion Jastirria!
How could he solo the tyrant when taskmasters are next ti them?
Well....first kill the Taskmaster, then the Tyrant
But what you are forgetting is: Wardens that Solo a Tyrant + Adds (They need to be killed first) need A LOT of time do do that.
So yes...its possible...but it takes much more time in comparison to moria/Mirkwood-Times when you could also solo the Tyrants.
And no....you don´t need to trait 5 blue to solo anything...5 Red + 2 Blue is all you need
Barast, Herausforderer von Gortheron - Captain /R8/
Bynn, Hüterin des Palastes - Champion /R7/
Kloonk Rampage - Reaver /R9/
Mitglied der Vernichter der Dunkelheit
If creeps stand around and let him a Warden can solo a Tyrant?
Haha. This isn't a problem with the warden. This is a problem of collusion and cheating creeps. Not attacking a freep is the same as helping him.
The REAL problems in the moors have little to do with balance. They have to do with a reward system that encourages people to a) not fight b) fight only in huge zergs c) fight only when assured victory and d) avoid all other forms of actual competitive PvMP.
Remove PvE rewards.
Remove the raid renown bonus multiplier.
Fix the distance bug for renown/infamy rewards.
Fix the math applied to renown/infamy calculations.
Add control point incentives requiring players to split up into multiple groups to be effective.
Delete accounts with cheating self farming or collusion earned ranks.
Fix the servers to remove lag from gameplay.
And the world would be shocked at how good PvMP really could be.
Second Marshal Luc Brandenbuck ~Battlemaster~
Stalker's Enemy*Reaver's Enemy*Blackarrow's Enemy*Warleader-Foe*Weaver's Enemy*Defiler-Foe Champion:'The only thing our opponents can do that we care about is die.'-Graalx2
If creeps stand around and let him a Warden can solo a Tyrant?
Haha. This isn't a problem with the warden. This is a problem of collusion and cheating creeps. Not attacking a freep is the same as helping him.
The REAL problems in the moors have little to do with balance. They have to do with a reward system that encourages people to a) not fight b) fight only in huge zergs c) fight only when assured victory and d) avoid all other forms of actual competitive PvMP.
Remove PvE rewards.
Remove the raid renown bonus multiplier.
Fix the distance bug for renown/infamy rewards.
Fix the math applied to renown/infamy calculations.
Add control point incentives requiring players to split up into multiple groups to be effective.
Delete accounts with cheating self farming or collusion earned ranks.
Fix the servers to remove lag from gameplay.
And the world would be shocked at how good PvMP really could be.
Cheating creeps? Balance isn't an issue? I didn't happen to see a creep in your "love me' sig. I agree that the new system encourages instead of discouraging PvE. But the rest of your post is ####. try a creep and get to rank 5. You will see freeps do the same as creeps and worse, the game lets them! freeps are OP in moat every way. But you keep your rose-colored freep-googles on and enjoy your ezmodding.
Some facts regarding warden self healing and soloing keeps.
Leach healing is greater than shield line healing in regards to heals per second. Thus when contrasting wardens hps and defilers, leach heals are by no means the same basis to be considered. Shield line heals are still extremely good for warden, and are more in line with comparison to defiler heals.
Before RoI warden's were able to solo tyrants alone, but not with other npcs on the player. Post RoI the warden's heals did not scale. U5 changed the warden self healing to where it should have been in RoI release, however the warden is still slacking in survivability. None the less, during U5, I was able to solo a tyrant with 9k+ devastate executes, which was not an easy task. U6 warden gets brought to the state they should be with heals/avoidance for PvE tanking. However PvE of the moors =/= PvE of OT t2. More importantly with the advent of audacity, all PvE is trivialized for the warden in the ettenmoors, seeing as the damage output of npcs remained static.
Last part, Orion mentioned a while ago on the warden forums in the future that a moors effect to limit the self healing abilities of the warden was in the plan.
To summarize: warden's soloing keeps nothing new. The current state of the warden is in the best shape it has ever been in survivability. In addition with audacity, there is no feat or challenge for warden to solo tyrants, so really nothing for these wardens to feel proud about. And yes, I'm pretty sure Orion is aware of the nature of the class out there.
We fought a warden Terminaatori or something close to that name at lc, he had 7 npc's on him and 5 creeps, couldnt scratch him him between his popping scrolls left and right and his heal over time stacks it was like he had 3 mini's healing him constantly, my power drain was useless. that is pure PVE mechanics that should not be in the ettens period.
I will say it, wardens need a flat out heal nerf, now. Or give them different stats and skills when they enter the ettens. Laugh.
And Nae, sweet Nae, You are always fun to fight (hugs)
the moors is not balanced the class's is not balanced
i want to go back to where i start when ppl need to actully have skills as a player to win not just rolling around with an OP class that u can ask ur kid sit behind the key-bored and he will do the same as u can
witch is rly sad ppl barging about stuff that there class doing not the actual player
Why? Very good wardens have some power regen ability that bad wardens dont have? In fact, in 1vs1, the only class that give me trouble is tops RKs...everything else is fairly easy. And some of them are awesome soloers.
***EDIT*** I didnt express myself properly. I should have refer to the defiler class (with Flies traited) and not all creep class with power debuff.
I apologize for my mistake.
As someone else already mentioned, wardens power restoring gambit is now spammable and not gated by the 50% morale threshold. It's less potent than before but it's still better than the power restore from mini's anthem of composure->coda, which seems to cancel out the power drain from traited flies (lol p2w). So yeah, only bad warden should be "had for breakfast". Any half-decent one will at the very least put up a mighty battle.
On another note, you're yet to 1v1 me for some reason. I only ever see you grouped I know most hunters suck at 1v1's, but I promise you that you won't find it easy vs. me, flies or not......
I kill minstrels all.the.time.on my warg, particularly since U6.
hmmmm....your warg is showing 1 day of play after the U6 launch, where freeps would have any audacity....earning about 2k infamy. I guess you may not have done any comm-farm quests and just 1v1'd minis that day to "kill minstrels all the time" though. It is a stark contrast to your mini earning nearly 80k.
Originally Posted by Gillianrial
It's time people were honest. Good minstrels were always hard to beat. Very hard. Bad minstrels were always easy. Today, bad/average minstrels are harder to kill than before and that's why people cry about them.
....Implying the only minis who are showing concern over a nerf are self identifying themselves as bad-average....../shrug prolly right.
Originally Posted by doug01
I'll take that bet.
You'd win. Just look at the the 300 post thread on the mini forums rallying against a heal nerf in WS....the horror! Life is rough for a bag pipe player in middle earth.
Cheating creeps? Balance isn't an issue? I didn't happen to see a creep in your "love me' sig. I agree that the new system encourages instead of discouraging PvE. But the rest of your post is ####. try a creep and get to rank 5. You will see freeps do the same as creeps and worse, the game lets them! freeps are OP in moat every way. But you keep your rose-colored freep-googles on and enjoy your ezmodding.
There is NO behaviour that isn't done on both sides. I'm not making this a creep or freep thing.
My comment was directly addressing the fact that the OP stated, which is that creeps stood by and watched, AND encouraged each other to not attack the warden.
That is collusion.
That is cheating.
The game is more balanced right now at this moment than it's been in 5 years. Why is the gameplay nearly as bad as it's ever been? Because people's playstyles are messed up.
I blame the playerbase FAR more than I do Turbine's balancing of classes.
IMHO, is there room for improvement? Always.
IMHO, is specific class balance THE main issue that is ruining gameplay in the moors? Absolutely not.
And btw, I got my creep to R5 in a few days play SOLO, not leeching, back in SoA. But in general I don't play alts so I don't flip creepside very often...not due to freep/creep bias but just because I play one toon predominately.
Lastly, so what if I'm proud of my accomplishments in game and put them in my sig? I earned them. At least my toons name is right there and I'm not anonymously posting.
Second Marshal Luc Brandenbuck ~Battlemaster~
Stalker's Enemy*Reaver's Enemy*Blackarrow's Enemy*Warleader-Foe*Weaver's Enemy*Defiler-Foe Champion:'The only thing our opponents can do that we care about is die.'-Graalx2
Warden soloing Lug with 20 NPCs on him was immediately shut down by a solo Warg rooting him and disabling all BPE
My name is Purebloodnakh, Chieftain of Saruman's Armies of the North, General of the Warg Legions, loyal servant to the true Lord, Sauron. And I will have my vengeance, in this life or the next.
As someone else already mentioned, wardens power restoring gambit is now spammable and not gated by the 50% morale threshold. It's less potent than before but it's still better than the power restore from mini's anthem of composure->coda, which seems to cancel out the power drain from traited flies (lol p2w). So yeah, only bad warden should be "had for breakfast". Any half-decent one will at the very least put up a mighty battle...
Fact: Defiler Flies > Warden Power regen Gambit. Unless you consider Leonidaas like a very bad Warden, i may suggest to get your facts straight. I downed him to 10% morale and no power when a warg came and interupted our dual.
As for your *P2W* comment, please take note that im more than willing to leave my Flies aside when youll leave your *I WIN BUTTON*, doing 7-10k damage by a single mouse click (Im refering to your Heart Seaker skill) aside as well.
*Wulfhram scored a critical hit with Heart Seeker on Biohazzard for 7,790 Beleriand damage to Morale.*
Yeah, it takes some serious skill to click that single icon...
Originally Posted by pibob314
On another note, you're yet to 1v1 me for some reason. I only ever see you grouped I know most hunters suck at 1v1's, but I promise you that you won't find it easy vs. me, flies or not......
The reason you wont find me solo is because i dont hang around in stealth ambushing greenies in questing hub. And FYI, i dont raid anymore and do only small grouping with Plok and Agony crew from time to time. Rest of the time, im solo roaming the map.
You are a hunter, right? Track me!
Last edited by whitefox1313; Mar 30 2012 at 01:28 PM.
You'd win. Just look at the the 300 post thread on the mini forums rallying against a heal nerf in WS....the horror! Life is rough for a bag pipe player in middle earth.
No, see you're wrong (again?).
That thread is about "removal" of heals in WS which is completely lolzy. A nerf to the heals, now that's a legitimate discussion.
Last edited by doug01; Mar 30 2012 at 01:38 PM.
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