Thread: Please remove Limlight Gorge requirement from Great River quest metadeed

So, in this post I am talking about quest deeds which are deeds that complete when you have done a certain amount of quests in one area, and about metadeed that is "the mother of all questdeeds" in that region, meaning that you complete the metadeed when you have completed all other quest deeds in that region.

I remember back when Dunland quest deeds were broken, a dev (I think it was Berephon) stated that quest deeds should not require group quests. That statement was referring to Starkmoor quest deed that (back then) needed you to complete The Culling Pit quests in order to complete the deed. Later that was changed so that you don't have to do those quests anymore.

Now we have Limlight Gorge, with full of group quests and not much else. Limlight Gorge also has its own "Quests in Limlight Gorge" deed that requires you to complete 20-30 (can't remember the exact amount) quests in the area. That's okay because that is group quest area in the first place.

But then we have "Quests of the Great River" metadeed that completes only when you have done all other quest deeds in the region, and that also includes Limlight Gorge quests. That means you can complete all other quest deeds solo but because you can't complete Limlight Gorge quest deed, you also cannot complete the metadeed (and can't get +1 Patience).

So I am asking that devs change the Quests of the Great River metadeed so that Limlight Gorge quests is not part of it. Pretty please?

Unlike Dunland though, you can solo enough of these 'group quests' to finish the deed by yourself.

Originally Posted by TinDragon

Unlike Dunland though, you can solo enough of these 'group quests' to finish the deed by yourself.

That really depends on the class. Trolls especially might be a problem with their stacking momentum buff. And those Nemesis trees that guard missing dwarves are a pain too.

Originally Posted by difens

That really depends on the class. Trolls especially might be a problem with their stacking momentum buff. And those Nemesis trees that guard missing dwarves are a pain too.

Indeed, and very much so.
I believe that a hunter can solo almost anything in the new area, but even fully raid geared its very tough, and a hunter actually has an ADVANTAGE in some of those quests (powerful CC when traited)
Of course a warden can solo almost everything, but can a warden solo the three troll spawn before the repeatable?
The only class I know of that has soloed that fight was a CC hunter with exceptional skill/gear (daze-locked two trolls and got the 3rd down with a fear/damage/root cycle)
Actually, what irritates me is that you MUST do some repeatable to complete that deed, you cant even go through and just do every quest.

The tree and spider *repeatables* are soloable by most and the trolls by some.

However, most of the non-repeatable quests are *not* soloable, except maybe by extreme examples of Wardens or Hunters.

So, I agree with the suggestion of removing the Limlight Gorge deed from the meta-deed. It is great to have a group quest area in the region and great to have deeds associated with that region. But making them part of the region meta-deed isn't required, IMO.

For consistency that should apply to the exploration deed as well, although ofc that is perfectly soloable.

and while we're at it, a slayer-deed meta-deed like the one in Dunland would be nice. Again, no need for that to include Titan-slayer.

The big difference is Dunland was an expansion designed for leveling, and the Culling Pit qere Fellowship Quests.
They also have the problem they aren't repeatable so players that did them had no good reason to do them again.
People would do them ( or not) and move along.
Also Dunland was designed as a solo area with no fellowship quests besides the 4 in the Culling Pit.

The quests in Limlight Gorge are Small fellowship ( for the most part. I think only the final quest in the prospector chain is full fellowship, altho a good small fellowship should be able to handle the 3 trolls)so it's easier to get a group for them.

The quests chains also all end in a repeatble quests, which many people still do daily for the reputation it gives.
Therefore it shouldnt be a problem to find a group to help you with the quests leading up to them, because the things you need to do also progress the repeatables.

Limlight Gorge is designed as a (small) fellowship area and makes up an important part of The Great River region.

( And yes, all classes can try to solo the quests, but it will be hard)

When a region has a fellowship area with quests, and there is a metadeed for quest completion in that region, there is no case that can be made to single out those fellowship quests from the meta-deed.

Originally Posted by Vandervahn

When a region has a fellowship area with quests, and there is a metadeed for quest completion in that region, there is no case that can be made to single out those fellowship quests from the meta-deed.

ah....what?

When a region has a fellowship area with quests, and there is a metadeed for quest completion in that region, there is no case that can be made to single out those fellowship quests from the meta-deed.

Agreed. The zone contains a small fellowship area. Completing the deed isn't so important that making one area irrelevant is necessary.

LOTRO is already plenty solo-friendly. If you're a completionist, just wait until December and solo the quests at L85. Or group with one or two of the hundreds of people wanting to do the quests.

Originally Posted by Frisco

The zone contains a small fellowship area. Completing the deed isn't so important that making one area irrelevant is necessary.

LOTRO is already plenty solo-friendly. If you're a completionist, just wait until December and solo the quests at L85. Or group with one or two of the hundreds of people wanting to do the quests.

This. Absolutely no reason to remove it from the meta deed. Next thing you know, you'll want the ToO removed from the RoImeta, just because it requires 12 people

Originally Posted by Crell_1

This. Absolutely no reason to remove it from the meta deed. Next thing you know, you'll want the ToO removed from the RoImeta, just because it requires 12 people

Ok, before the next one finds this thread and tells me to "go and play Tetris or some other single-player game, as this is MMO!!!!11111" I'll just ask those people to read the original post, as for WHY I asked Limlight Gorge deed to be removed from the metadeed. I was referring to dev who actually said that quest completion deeds should not require group quests.

I don't have problems against Limlight Gorge area itself or the Limlight quest deed either, but since ALL other quest deeds are soloable, except for one, that one shouldn't be part of the metadeed.

I read the orignal post, and I disagree. Meta Deeds are designed to require all the things. It's perfectly reasonable to require you to do the quests in a 'group area'. If you're dead set on not grouping for what is currently the newest group content, you can wait. There's nothing that requires you to NOT solo them except for difficulty. They're quite duoable. Meet someone new and give it a try.

Originally Posted by Gilean-EU

... I'll just ask those people to read the original post, as for WHY I asked Limlight Gorge deed to be removed from the metadeed. I was referring to dev who actually said that quest completion deeds should not require group quests. ...

OK then.
Berephons quote was about Dunland quest deeds, concerning a whole expansion built around the solo experience. The Great River is obviously made according to a in some ways different plan (even if poorly executed); so comments about the Dunland Quest meta-deed do not automatically apply to any other, and especially not one that has an important fellowship-aspect.

Now, it would OF COURSE be nice if one or more requirements were removed from deeds - from all of them. Deeding sucks. But there is somehow no realistic reason why the LG quests in particular should be singled out.

oh cry about it... I love limlight and all of its dynamics. If you don't like it... don't go for the deed, there ARE other ways to clear your +1 patience for your 14... Nyah... QQ QQ QQ thats all you people do around here. Grow up!! instead of ALWAYS looking at the negative... try looking at some positives... it will improve your cruddy outlook on life...

Originally Posted by Falwynn

oh cry about it... I love limlight and all of its dynamics. If you don't like it... don't go for the deed, there ARE other ways to clear your +1 patience for your 14... Nyah... QQ QQ QQ thats all you people do around here. Grow up!! instead of ALWAYS looking at the negative... try looking at some positives... it will improve your cruddy outlook on life...

If you don't see the irony in this post, then I won't point it out to you.

For what it's worth, I don't think it's a problem to have LG remain as part of the metadeed. I'll get to it when the level cap rises to 85. Or 95. Or. . . .

Originally Posted by Falwynn

oh cry about it... I love limlight and all of its dynamics. If you don't like it... don't go for the deed, there ARE other ways to clear your +1 patience for your 14... Nyah... QQ QQ QQ thats all you people do around here. Grow up!! instead of ALWAYS looking at the negative... try looking at some positives... it will improve your cruddy outlook on life...

Hehe, it's always funny to see posts like this and see the poster also saying "grow up" to someone who has tried to explain rationally why he wants something. I would ignore this but please could you tell me how I get 14 patience in solo ways?

And just to say it once again: I am not against Limlight Gorge and I don't want the whole area removed from the game

I'm with you 100%, Gilean. I'm fanatical about deeds, I have the time to do them, and I do NOT want to have to group with other people in order to complete a deed. I don't mind grinding MOBS but I use LotRO as an escape from having to interact with people other than with a casual in-passing wave, and when I'm nudged into having to group to complete something it makes me slightly annoyed. I guess I'll be waiting for the level cap to increase just like you are and then I'll just go mow them down.

I'm not angry with the devs or resentful that I have to wait; I was just getting it on record that there is someone else out there who doesn't think that this deed should be part of the meta for the region.

1. It's an MMO. Don't be surprised when there is group content. Seriously, you can't get 3-4 people together to do these? The only one my wife and I absolutely had to have help with was the mining/troll precursors, where you'd get ambushed by as many as 3 trolls at one point. I see people making groups do to the Gorge starter quests all the time.

2. The deed in question doesn't adversely affect you if it's uncompleted, so I wouldn't hold my breath about this being changed.

Quite honestly, the game is way too easy to solo. Turbine has not done us any favors by making all the content soloable. It's because of this ease of soloing that it can be very difficult to get groups together to do some of the end game materials, or when you do get a group together, there are so many people that have no clue how to run in a group, or even better, how to follow directions. If grouping was more required to play the game, maybe this would not be an issue. I wish there were actually more areas like Limlight Gorge in the game so people would get practice grouping. Although, I honestly was underwhelmed by LG...when I heard they were doing an area that would require grouping to go in and do the quests...I though they meant groups, not 1 to 2 people able to do all but one or two quests. But, such is life, I guess.

For the last two posters, I say it again: I wasn't asking devs to remove Limlight Gorge, I was asking them to remove it from quest completion metadeed, and reasons are in post #1.

And by the way, altough it has been said 100 times and more, MMO doesn't mean "must-group game". Feels stupid to repeat that simple truth over and over again but...

I don't have anything against groupers. Still, I much rather solo myself, for various reasons I am not going here, but this thread wasn't about remove grouping requrement of Limlight Gorge. I just don't see why group area is part of landscape questing metadeed: You can do 6/7 of it by soloing OR grouping, but complete the deed ONLY if you group.

Originally Posted by Gilean-EU

For the last two posters, I say it again: I wasn't asking devs to remove Limlight Gorge, I was asking them to remove it from quest completion metadeed, and reasons are in post #1.

And by the way, altough it has been said 100 times and more, MMO doesn't mean "must-group game". Feels stupid to repeat that simple truth over and over again but...

I don't have anything against groupers. Still, I much rather solo myself, for various reasons I am not going here, but this thread wasn't about remove grouping requrement of Limlight Gorge. I just don't see why group area is part of landscape questing metadeed: You can do 6/7 of it by soloing OR grouping, but complete the deed ONLY if you group.

And your reasons are wrong. Reducing the quest totals required for the Dunland quest completion deeds was wrong. Every other quest completion deed in the game before RoI only gave I think at most 4 virtue ranks total. Even if you skip Limlight you're still getting 6 from easier-than-ever solo faceroll content. If you would like to make a petition that they remove each mini-zone deed and give one 3 to 4 tier quest completion deed for the entire Great River area, which would then of course not require you to group, I would be perfectly supportive of that. But I don't see why you feel entitled to seven ranks of virtue for virtually no effort.

Just because MMO doesn't mean "must-group game" doesn't mean you should get everything if you refuse to group.

Honestly, deeds and metadeeds have gotten completely out of hand in this game. I know some players like deeds and I like them within reason, but seriously. I hate having a metadeed for every slayer deed, explorer deed, and quest deed out there. Feeling as though I've actually accomplished something in this game becomes harder and harder with all the unfinished and unfinishable deeds now.

Of course, some of this frustration could be solved for those of us that like clean deed pages by giving us an option to delete deeds from our logs like we can quests. Seems a very simple concept to me. The Shire, Ered Luin, Bree, Lonelands, and North Downs, for instance, are good examples of reasonable amounts and styles of deeds for a given zone. No meta-deeds, plenty of quests available to cover the quest deeds, reasonable numbers for the slayer deeds, and nice exploration deeds.

Why did they ever deviate from that?

Originally Posted by Celebria

... Feeling as though I've actually accomplished something in this game becomes harder and harder with all the unfinished and unfinishable deeds now.

Of course, some of this frustration could be solved for those of us that like clean deed pages by giving us an option to delete deeds from our logs like we can quests. ...

Huh? You want accomplishments, and your solution is to simply make the challenges go away?

"Mr President, we won the war!" - - - "Amazing feat, General! Last time it sounded like we were losing! How on Earth did you accomplish that?!?" - - - "Well, we retreated far enough behind our lines so that we cannot see the enemy anymore!"

Besides, if there is a system to erase deeds, there will also have to be a system to reinstate them or the GMs will be pestered by people wanting their previously deleted deeds back at some point.

Why did they ever deviate from that?

It gives more avenues to more virtue ranks, requiring less specific grind. The higher TP return comes on top. A win-win situation.

Originally Posted by Vandervahn

Besides, if there is a system to erase deeds, there will also have to be a system to reinstate them or the GMs will be pestered by people wanting their previously deleted deeds back at some point.

Any erased deeds would simply be reinstated by going and doing the action that triggered the deed in the first place. No problems for the most part.

People cancel quests all the time and go get them again later, if they choose. It's no different for deeds. Complete the ones you want or need the virtues for and cancel the rest. It's a win-win situation.

Originally Posted by Celebria

Any erased deeds would simply be reinstated by going and doing the action that triggered the deed in the first place. No problems for the most part.

People cancel quests all the time and go get them again later, if they choose. It's no different for deeds. Complete the ones you want or need the virtues for and cancel the rest. It's a win-win situation.

Or just don't open your deed log if it bothers you that much. Unlike quests, you're not limited to how many deeds you can have.

Originally Posted by Hrodberht

2. The deed in question doesn't adversely affect you if it's uncompleted, so I wouldn't hold my breath about this being changed.

The metadeed gives a point of a Virtue I'm using, so--yes--it does adversely affect me if I don't complete it.

--W. H. Heydt

Old Used Programmer

Originally Posted by whheydt

The metadeed gives a point of a Virtue I'm using, so--yes--it does adversely affect me if I don't complete it.

--W. H. Heydt

Old Used Programmer

Assuming that you're talking about Justice, there are 17 points of Justice available in the game that I've found. Surely 14 of those are accessible to a level 75 solo (duo?) player.

Edit: I just double-checked - one can earn 14 Justice purely by solo means, assuming that one is capable of killing 450 Pale Folk in a level 50 instance and 240 Orcs in a level 60 instance at level 75 (the former is exceptionally easy to do, and the latter would be pretty straightforward as well).

Originally Posted by Lestache

Assuming that you're talking about Justice, there are 17 points of Justice available in the game that I've found. Surely 14 of those are accessible to a level 75 solo (duo?) player.

Edit: I just double-checked - one can earn 14 Justice purely by solo means, assuming that one is capable of killing 450 Pale Folk in a level 50 instance and 240 Orcs in a level 60 instance at level 75 (the former is exceptionally easy to do, and the latter would be pretty straightforward as well).

That "whooshing" sound you hear is a point going by over your head.

1. I did not ask for the Limlight Gorge quest deed to be removed from the metadeed, though I have no opposition to that happening.

2. What makes you think the cap on Virtue values will remain at 14?

3. Just because there are other ways to achieve 14 points of Justice doesn't mean that this particular one may not be important to any particular individual.

4. The claim was made that a soloer being unable to complete the Limlight Gorge quest deed would have no affect on anyone. That is the sort of statement that can be proven false by a single counterexample. I provided a counterexample. The claim is falsified.

--W. H. Heydt

Old Used Programmer

Originally Posted by tomiathon

And your reasons are wrong. Reducing the quest totals required for the Dunland quest completion deeds was wrong. Every other quest completion deed in the game before RoI only gave I think at most 4 virtue ranks total. Even if you skip Limlight you're still getting 6 from easier-than-ever solo faceroll content. If you would like to make a petition that they remove each mini-zone deed and give one 3 to 4 tier quest completion deed for the entire Great River area, which would then of course not require you to group, I would be perfectly supportive of that. But I don't see why you feel entitled to seven ranks of virtue for virtually no effort.

Just because MMO doesn't mean "must-group game" doesn't mean you should get everything if you refuse to group.

That is only your opinion, but I hardly asked that I would get "everything". Anyway, I have started doing Limlight quests with all my characters now. First time I learned what to expect, after that I have been guiding others what we have to do and what to expect (talking about starter quests here). And it has been just as tedious as I remembered: trying to herd people who can concentrate only 5 seconds at time and cannot always understand written english, and trying to make them understand that if our group is doing all starter quests, we don't finish when you are ready but until EVERYONE is ready. That is far from relaxing, and reminds me of why I try to avoid grouping whenever it is possible. Not to mention that I have to bear with globallff-spammers now and all those knock-knock -jokes and "I chose human female character because of boobs" -talk until I am done with my titan-slayer deed too with all my characters (or at least 5 of them who needs Patience virtue).

You said Great River solo content is "easier-than-ever faceroll content". I would say Limlight repeatables are JUST THAT. Usually ran by group of 6, there is no difficulty whatsoever compared to solo content, many solo quests are actually harder. So again, group quests are not hard because they are meant doing with group (of course, LG quests are small fellowship quests but usually we see groups of 6 doing them). Mobs just have more morale and hit harder to counter group-buffs and all that.

I only asked that they remove the group area (Limlight Gorge) from quest completion metadeed, that's it. It wouldn't hurt anyone, those who like to run repeatables can easily do quest deed of LG anyway. I just don't like to be forced to group in order to complete quest deed when I have done 6/7 of it already by soloing, that's all.

Originally Posted by Gilean-EU

So I am asking that devs change the Quests of the Great River metadeed so that Limlight Gorge quests is not part of it. Pretty please?

Yes please, I'd like to support this suggestion.