While I know many people enjoy watching their gold pile up, that can leave poor players in a bad spot. I have noticed that most posts in the AH are grossly overpriced. While I don't grudge players the right to make money or set their own prices, I do think that some things should be priced lower so that some of the poorer players (like me) will be able to afford them. I grow tired of getting on the AH and seeing things priced at amounts no player can reasonably hope to reach. Some players really need things from AH, such as potions, weapons, and class items, but cannot afford them because of the ridiculous prices. I would like to see some general guidelines about prices for various items. I'm not saying I want the price you can post them for be restricted, but that some sort of loose expectation is agreed upon. I think it could really help the game if the price gouging epidemic in the AH is brought to heel.
Last edited by john2222222; Mar 28 2012 at 05:43 PM.
While I know many people enjoy watching their gold pile up, that can leave poor players in a bad spot. I have noticed that most posts in the AH are grossly overpriced. While I don't grudge players the right to make money or set their own prices, I do think that some things should be priced lower so that some of the poorer players (like me) will be able to afford them. I grow tired of getting on the AH and seeing things priced at amounts no player can reasonably hope to reach. Some players really need things from AH, such as potions, weapons, and class items, but cannot afford them because of the ridiculous prices. I would like to see some general guidelines about prices for various items. I'm not saying I want the price you can post them for be restricted, but that some sort of loose expectation is agreed upon. I think it could really help the game if the price gouging epidemic in the AH is brought to heel.
I agree with ya & thats all I am saying on this subject.
Note that the AH is a great place to make that gold you say you do not have. Not sure what your professions are but look around and see what kind of things you can make and sell them at similarly outrageous prices - working the pricing until you find buyers (aka capitalism). Of if you want to take pity on other poor players then you can go out and do all the work acquiring these goods and then sell them for really low prices.
If you put in the time to grind out resources and items to sell then in no time you will have money. I doubt after putting in the time you would want to sell them for anything less than you can earn however but I could be wrong.
While I agree with you that many things on the AH are overpriced, many things that are overpriced on the AH don't sell. Therefore, they are not the market-clearing price for that item. I would venture to guess that at least 10 ten times the number that actually sells (clears) goes unsold and gets returned to the lister. Therefore, the seller bears the risk of either 1) paying the auction listing fee and not selling the item or 2) selling the item lower than the true market-clearing price (what a reasonable person would pay for that item in an 'arm's length' transaction).
If there was auction history listing functionality (I.e. seeing the cleared auctions), you would likely see the 'reasonable' prices - reasonable because that is what another player is willing to trade in coin for the item. There is no way to regulate a fair price system - only a system where buyers and sellers are able to demand their terms, and, occasionally agree and trade resources. If you really want something, you are going to have to find it yourself or pay the market-clearing price for it.
Fara
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While I know there are many players out there wishing prices were lower on the AH, there are also a group of players who simply buy anything that is sold and then immediately relist the item and increase the price by double or triple.
There is not much that can be done about prices unless you deal directly with the person that creates the item. Since the name of the maker is listed on crafted goods, it is easy to say - If the seller is not the maker, then I won't buy the item.
This works great on items like weapons, armor and jewellery. On consumables I can buy cheap and sell high if I have just one of that item in my pack. Stack items made by player A on top of items made by Player B and the whole stack now reads as made by Player B.
If you want good prices, buy direct and skip the AH and the possible middle-men.
The gas prices that are still only 30% of the prices in Europe?
Yup. I guess I was just trying to be a little goofy, making a simile betweeen real life and a game, in terms of people piling up more money than necessary, and 'gouging the little guy'.
Some players really need things from AH, such as potions, weapons, and class items, but cannot afford them because of the ridiculous prices.
Well, all stuff in AH is acquirable ingame - so, if you find price inadequate, go out and get the thing yourself. After spending time and resources, then make a judgement f the cost was right, overpriced or underrated.
Gold is easy to come by in LotRO.
PS. asking nicely in Trade channel "Can someone please make me /insert item name/ Will give you raw materials for creating it" will get you quite far. Asking "Gimme this, that and also that one free!!!" will just get ignored.
Last edited by Hatter_of_Bree; Mar 28 2012 at 06:43 PM.
Thank you, Turbine, for listening and giving us an opt-out of FE! Good work!
Supply and demand. If you want prices to go down, you just have to undercut people. When they can no longer sell their items for their listed price, they'll lower that price.
Also, if you've found yourself in dire need of potions, food, armor, etc... then I'd suggest joining a helpful kinship. When I was leveling up, all I had to do was hit up one of my kinnies and they'd cook up a batch of lembas or some teal jewelry for my current level and the following five levels before I logged off. I, conversely, showered them with weapons whenever I noticed that I could make something better for them. And that's really a lot less violent than it sounds...
Re auction history, I actually created one of my own, selling stuff I collected and recording the prices until I came up with range that would make some profit but also move the items quickly. It became a game inside the game. An insanely obsessive game. And when I needed 60g to buy something I would have had run Carn Dum to get, and I wasn't going to have a chance to do so, I had the cash. Not that that didn't set me back.
It's interesting see how prices change, too. Long-lost tomes, for instance, would sell for 8-10s a while back and weren't worth auctioning, but now the price has skyrocketed to 20-30s. The real money now is in rep items, especially for Forochel. I have to say, I'm pretty ticked about the new system as a result because it doesn't include Loth, Mirk and points south. One of my guys wants the steed of the world, so he did Forochel overleveled, which only overleveled him more, and diminished everything afterwards. If he could have just bought the rep, even if ridiculously priced, then he would have enjoyed Loth and Mirk et al. more by being more appropriately leveled.
I agree many things are overpriced there? soo a simple solution according to common economics is if u want the prices to drop, dont buy it. When people see that they dont sell at all they will lower prices. So, u dont like the price according to ur wealth? dont care buying it. If many people act that way prices will drop.
You don't need to buy anything from the AH, but I agree - it is annoying as a buyer having to sift through all the items that are blatantly overpriced and will never get a single bid just to find something you will consider paying for.
There are two problems here - one is that sellers forget that the servers have independent economies; some servers have massive inflation (which raises prices over time as well as raising incomes) and others don't. Sellers see someone say they got 500G for something on a different server and expect to be able to get that on their own server, even though the going rate for what they are selling on their own server is only 10G.
The other problem is that there is no cost to them asking outrageous prices that nobody will ever bid on. IRL an auction house would not accept an outrageous opening price, as it still means work for them with no chance of getting a commission - they would charge more upfront to both cover their costs and to discourage people from doing it. The AH doesn't do this, so people just keep on reposting the same thing at the same high price that nobody will ever pay.
NB: to head off all the rage-trollers that will inevitably cry "free market! blah blah blah" I will explain the free market: sellers compete with other sellers and control the amount of product available (supply), buyers compete with other buyers and determine the prices paid (demand). When a seller has any control over the price paid (price fixing!) then its no longer a free market.
While I know many people enjoy watching their gold pile up, that can leave poor players in a bad spot. I have noticed that most posts in the AH are grossly overpriced. While I don't grudge players the right to make money or set their own prices, I do think that some things should be priced lower so that some of the poorer players (like me) will be able to afford them. I grow tired of getting on the AH and seeing things priced at amounts no player can reasonably hope to reach. Some players really need things from AH, such as potions, weapons, and class items, but cannot afford them because of the ridiculous prices. I would like to see some general guidelines about prices for various items. I'm not saying I want the price you can post them for be restricted, but that some sort of loose expectation is agreed upon. I think it could really help the game if the price gouging epidemic in the AH is brought to heel.
One of the wonderful aspects of online gaming is that there are no entitlements and no restrictions as well. That means that people can be as generous as they wish and you can do everything anyone else can do to obtain items and wealth.
When one finds them self visiting the AH too often and being underfunded, one has to ask them self why? As a seasoned player, one should have accumulated some wealth and self sufficiency. As a new player, one should be visiting the zones more than the AH.
If it is materials that you are after, there is an unlimited supply of them 100% free in the game. You simply have to go out and harvest them. If the materials you seek are not from your profession then farm some rep items or other materials to barter with.
When you visit the AH you are bartering for the efforts of someone else along with the time they put a value to. Most are going to sell for what the market will bare. What is unaffordable to you is not necessarily to high in price, just too expensive for your taste. If no one purchases the item, no one wins. If someone purchases the item, it suited their needs and both sides win.
Value and price in an AH are subjective. In real life I might look at a 20 year old car for sale for $20,000 as overpriced since it sold for $5,000 back then and surely it depreciated. Someone else might see it as a collectable classic and snap it up. Since I don't have the disposable income to collect classic cars, the price for me is overpriced. Unlike life however, in the game I could just go out and get my own for free.
I also wanted to add that you are not looking at "Overhead" which very few do when posting about AH pricing. Many players in the game have alternates, play at high levels, have friends, family & kin that they support. They tend to look at how the additional coin can help out and price based on what people will be willing to pay. I sold a lock box for a tidy sum of coin because I needed the coin at that time for sigils for gear crafting more than I needed the possibility of a nice reward from the box. I also sold off a good deal of rep items at the same time for the same reason. I did not complain that the sigils were priced at 10 Gold each. I simply farmed some then bought the others I needed with the profits from the AH.
While I know there are many players out there wishing prices were lower on the AH, there are also a group of players who simply buy anything that is sold and then immediately relist the item and increase the price by double or triple.
This technique only works when there are players willing to pay these prices. If people are paying these prices, then the original poster was under pricing their goods.
There is no effective way that Turbine can force prices down. The instant Turbine price controls on the Auction Hall. Sellers will not post the items on the Auction Hall. They will find another way to get the gold they expect. You will see web enabled 3-party sites, and people selling in the trade channels. Due to the aggravation and hassle factors prices will go up. The marginal items will not sold at all.
Perhaps some of you are as old as I am. Remember when the USA Federal tried to price control gasoline and other fuels. We ended up with rationing and gas shortages. For me it was profit center, I did not use my allotment. I get my full share. Sell on the black market. It annoyed the heck out of me to have get a locking fuel cap for the car. There is a certain frustration when the car will not start because someone siphoned all the gas out. You can not buy any because you haven't gotten you next ration. Even if I had more fuel at home. It is a hassle going home. Coming back with a small gas can.
Last edited by Yula_the_Mighty; Mar 28 2012 at 07:57 PM.
Unless stated otherwise, all content in this post is My Personal Opinion.
While I know many people enjoy watching their gold pile up, that can leave poor players in a bad spot.
This is nonsense. It's way too easy to make gold! There's honestly no excuse for anyone being poor in this game. LOTRO is the easiest game to make gold in that I've ever seen.
I've been able to get more than 100 gold in less than a week.
It depends completely on your strategy. Are you farming items to sell on the Auction House? If you are, what items? Explain to me what you're doing so I can perhaps give a few pointers on how to make some gold. What level your character is will also impact this. All my toons were end-cap.
NO MORE LEGENDARIES - This isn't a job, it's a game.
That's the case, we dont even need a AH & Turbine should just get rid of it.
One also doesn't need to buy anything from the Store. Does that mean Turbine should get rid of the Store as well?
The AH is the original (and the true) "convenience not advantage" venue. I need 20 ingots of dwarf iron. Do I want to drag myself off to the Trollshaws and mine dwarf iron, or do I want to enjoy the convenience of paying for it at the AH and saving myself the trouble? If I think the AH price is too high, I simply won't buy it. I'll get it myself.
There are alternative means to acquire items that are listed on the AH. A lot have been mentioned here. Join a helpful kinship. Earn your own gold (it's not that difficult). Level your own crafters. Each of these things are doable by any player. If you think the convenience of buying at the AH isn't worth the asking price, then figure out how to get it without buying it at the AH. This is a helpful community. You need information? Ask and ye shall receive.
It almost sounds to me as if the OP is asking for the AH to be a place of receiving a manner of subsidy. That's not the purpose of the AH, and I hope it never will be. I'm not unsympathetic. All of us started playing this game with exactly the same resources: nothing. A player needs to learn how to acquire certain goods in this game. It may take a while to achieve the end result. But instant gratification isn't always an option for a lot of things in this world.
Each player uses the Auction Hall a different way. I buy affordable items. I am pretty self sufficient. If something is high priced (in my opinion) I will get it myself. Or do without.
I am pretty good at planning my needs well in advance - habit from having to do this activity for my work and leisure. When you are faced with - you can't go to the store for what you need - if you are mssing something - it is 4-12 weeks to get it. You are going on a primitive camping trip - you do not want to running trying to buy it when you are getting ready to leave - or worse yet you are 10 miles from the nearest road - it is not with you.
Gold is really easy to make. I take my extras. Haul them to the auction hall to sell. That gives me gobs of gold to spend on repairs, stable rides, recipes or whatever.
Unless stated otherwise, all content in this post is My Personal Opinion.
I use the Auction House for reputation items, buying any and all I find at prices that aren't 300 a piece or so (excluding 40s for Mathoms, just not worth it unless I'm just 30 away from a level up in reputation). Other than that, I've mostly stuck with crafting and faction reputation for my needs for items.
What the AH needs is a research function for past sell-through.
Right now if I am a casual provider of items on there I have no way to know what a fair price is. So I can only choose between ripping the n00bs off or ripping myself off. I don't want to. I'd sell for the last sell-through price. But I can't tell.
While I know many people enjoy watching their gold pile up, that can leave poor players in a bad spot. I have noticed that most posts in the AH are grossly overpriced. While I don't grudge players the right to make money or set their own prices, I do think that some things should be priced lower so that some of the poorer players (like me) will be able to afford them. I grow tired of getting on the AH and seeing things priced at amounts no player can reasonably hope to reach. Some players really need things from AH, such as potions, weapons, and class items, but cannot afford them because of the ridiculous prices. I would like to see some general guidelines about prices for various items. I'm not saying I want the price you can post them for be restricted, but that some sort of loose expectation is agreed upon. I think it could really help the game if the price gouging epidemic in the AH is brought to heel.
Wait so you claim to be opposed to any kind of hard price control, but you want everyone to price things at whatever YOU think is fair based on the assumption that everyone should have easy access to equal amounts of everything? Mmmmmmmm yeah, gonna have to say "no" on this one. We the bourgeoisie will continue to soften our footfalls with the flesh and spirit of your lumpenproletariat. Carry on.
Informed by Science, Inspired by Art
RK/Mini/Capt/Hnt/Champ -- Raiding on Brandywine and Meneldor.
Things that sell well have reasonable prices (gear, crafting materials, dyes...) In those cases you could talk about a real supply/demand economy, with few crazy prices. But unusual stuff like decorations can be way too overpriced. I have seen a Tall Birch Tree for 1 gold, but you can get it from the vendor for 11 silver. Those people just keep posting stuff again and again in case someone falls for it.
My suggestion is to make the posting fee a percentage of the initial bid rather than the vendor price. That way people would make sure they can really sell the stuff, or else they would be losing gold. That would clear the market of crazy posts, making it easier for everyone to see what the real price is at first glance.
Well, all stuff in AH is acquirable ingame - so, if you find price inadequate, go out and get the thing yourself.
This. The price of medium hides and leather on Eldar, where I have an alt, is insane - like 7g a stack for hides. So I went out and killed wolves for an hour in Midgewater Pass and got everything I needed. Did I want to waste an hour doing that? No. But did I want to spend 7g on hides? Heck no.
This. The price of medium hides and leather on Eldar, where I have an alt, is insane - like 7g a stack for hides. So I went out and killed wolves for an hour in Midgewater Pass and got everything I needed. Did I want to waste an hour doing that? No. But did I want to spend 7g on hides? Heck no.
And you made $$$ from vendor trash too!
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, totally worn out & proclaiming "WOW, what a ride!"
Civ II rules after all these years......
Things that sell well have reasonable prices (gear, crafting materials, dyes...) In those cases you could talk about a real supply/demand economy, with few crazy prices. But unusual stuff like decorations can be way too overpriced. I have seen a Tall Birch Tree for 1 gold, but you can get it from the vendor for 11 silver. Those people just keep posting stuff again and again in case someone falls for it.
My suggestion is to make the posting fee a percentage of the initial bid rather than the vendor price. That way people would make sure they can really sell the stuff, or else they would be losing gold. That would clear the market of crazy posts, making it easier for everyone to see what the real price is at first glance.
While I know many people enjoy watching their gold pile up, that can leave poor players in a bad spot. I have noticed that most posts in the AH are grossly overpriced. While I don't grudge players the right to make money or set their own prices, I do think that some things should be priced lower so that some of the poorer players (like me) will be able to afford them. I grow tired of getting on the AH and seeing things priced at amounts no player can reasonably hope to reach. Some players really need things from AH, such as potions, weapons, and class items, but cannot afford them because of the ridiculous prices. I would like to see some general guidelines about prices for various items. I'm not saying I want the price you can post them for be restricted, but that some sort of loose expectation is agreed upon. I think it could really help the game if the price gouging epidemic in the AH is brought to heel.
Or instead of spending your time whining here on the forum demanding that Turbine bring everyone down to your level, you could do what the rest of us did and actually do the work to earn your gold so you can participate. Things too expensive? Then develop a craft. Don't whine about how it's too hard to develop a craft, or get high end stuff and then complain about prices. Someone else put in all the time and hard work to get something, so quit griping and either pay what they feel their time is worth, or don't.
Bring yourself to their level, don't demand that everyone get dragged down to your level.
I'm more or less approaching that level, level 41 with 10g (had 17g, but some of it went to alts to buy vault space). I still find the prices tend to be ridiculous. Almost never higher than two, no one wants to prevent free to play people from buying their stuff, but in my main server (Dwarrowdelf) 1 or 2 g for practically any item is the norm, even weaponry, and especially reputation items and crafting materials.
Hay john2222222 I think being low class give you a advance that high level players dont have. You can use what you get from Quests for a short time. Now you can fight the high prices. By making your own stuff and selling it for a lower cost. It will force others to lower the cost of there items and you can make money in the long run.
I'm more or less approaching that level, level 41 with 10g (had 17g, but some of it went to alts to buy vault space). I still find the prices tend to be ridiculous. Almost never higher than two, no one wants to prevent free to play people from buying their stuff, but in my main server (Dwarrowdelf) 1 or 2 g for practically any item is the norm, even weaponry, and especially reputation items and crafting materials.
What's wrong with that? At level 41 you should be able to easily earn 10 - 20 gold a week using your crafting skills. If you're a prospector, mine ore and sell it. If you're a scholar, collect materials and sell them. Go to the barrow downs and farm Bree rep items and sell them. Chop wood, collect hides, sell gear, farm vendor trash, or do what everyone else does and just play, level and have a good time enjoying the story until you're a high enough level to have Westfold in some craft.
Also, things like hides, ore and scholar mats can be saved and stored. Then, you can start a second character and give that stuff to them for easy leveling. Eventually you can make your own stuff and you don't need to pay for it.
If you need weapons, collect the materials or the resources you need and then use trade chat to ask someone nice to make the item for you if you provide the materials. They may or may not ask a fee but either way you'll save money. I've done that for people, someone asked in trade for a certain ring, I said, "give me the silver and I'll crit one for you" and that's what I did. I was happy to help.
But don't dare complain about someone else who is willing to give up their time (time = your life, you're giving up part of your life) to craft, collect, raid, etc for items and then sell them based on what they feel their life is worth. If you don't like it, don't buy it. I mean, why not just go all the way and have an income tax on the rich players in the game where Turbine taxes them just because they're rich and then gives the money to lower level player. We can have LOTRO Red Army version!
As I said before, I get everything with crafting, between three characters I lack only food and jewelry (which my quite friendly kin provides). And I'm not one to be complaining about how much money others might have. I just see no reason to have a Well-Kept Mathom have an opening bid of 999s 99c.
I just see no reason to have a Well-Kept Mathom have an opening bid of 999s 99c.
And I see no reason why it shouldn't have an opening bid of 999s 99c. If no one buys it, than whoever put it up there just wasted some money on an auction. If there's some rich person in game who needs one more Mathom to hit kin and just happen to be at the AH at that time and says, "oh heck, sure" and buys it out for 1.5g why is that a problem?
No ones forcing you to pay anything for stuff in the AH.
And I see no reason why it shouldn't have an opening bid of 999s 99c. If no one buys it, than whoever put it up there just wasted some money on an auction. If there's some rich person in game who needs one more Mathom to hit kin and just happen to be at the AH at that time and says, "oh heck, sure" and buys it out for 1.5g why is that a problem?
No ones forcing you to pay anything for stuff in the AH.
Exactly. A lot of times when someone wants price regulation I ask "What part of auction house don't you understand?"
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, totally worn out & proclaiming "WOW, what a ride!"
Civ II rules after all these years......
its a player controlled market. Deal with the prices or go without. I dont want to spend 30g on a brilliant jewelled stud of the brute, so i didnt. I bought the non-crit versions instead for 5g each.
So what you're asking for is effectively for me to limit how much I sell my time for. When I craft food, for example, I have to get my farmer to the field, buy the seeds, plant the seeds, harvest the crop, craft the crop into produce and transfer it to my cook. I then have to pick up the mats on my cook, buy the vendor supplies, go to the oven/campfire, and sit around for hours as the food cooks. Making a few hundred of an item is EXTREMELY time consuming. A little less so for scholar items, but there's still multiple steps. Added to that is the auction listing fee and the sale percentage that we lose. And all good crafters also include a bit extra, for all the times that we listed at the going rate and our product still didn't sell, which cost us our initial listing fee.
With the exception of lootboxes, the Lotro economy is time-based. There's very little luck involved. Rather, how much money you have is almost always related to how much time you spend on money-making activities. If you have very little time, you are likely to have very little gold. For those of us with more time, we're making money through crafting, or normal game play (unless you're a pvp'er. Then you're screwed )
Easy ways to make cash:
Low level ore or wood. Surprisingly, this sells for as much or more than high level.
Scholar mats and hides, which drop off mobs and don't even need a profession to be gathered.
Crafting. Consumables work best in my opinion, as a non-crit will still break even, and usually make a profit.
Farming mobs. Between vendor trash, scholar mats and hides, you make out like a bandit. Add to that selling task items and the chance of a lootbox, and there's no issue.
Running raids/instances with a decent group. As long as you're not dying a bunch, you can actually do very well just from the cash in the chests.
Solo/duoing instances like Stoneheight. It gives what, 30 T4 relics per run? That's some good cash.
Festivals. Cosmetic clothing and housing decorations that are limited to certain festivals are often sought after by those who weren't playing yet or don't have the time/patience to earn them.
Spend just a couple hours a week making money and soon you'll find yourself with more than you thought you'd see. Get rid of the entitlement and just go earn it. That's what the rest of us do. If you can't gather what you need, gather something else, sell it, and buy what you were looking for. There's no reason to expect others to work harder so that you can get the things you want for little or no effort.
And as a last tidbit, you'd be surprised at how much money some players have. I know a player who has more money spread over multiple toons than he could possibly spend. I myself had over 2k gold not long ago, and that was earned in a fairly short time. So these prices that you say no one could pay...that's just not true. People can and DO pay them. It's all about what the seller is willing to let his/her time go for, and how much the buyer wants it.
And some creeps. Most of whom shall remain nameless
I love the crazy prices; they just mean that I will sell all my stuff quickly. I always sell stuff to move it, and make a little cash. I used to just sell my purple crafted goods to the vendors, "who wants this low level stuff" I'd say, but now I just toss em on the vendor for 1/4 of the other sellers prices, and like magic...Bam, Poof, allakazam...Money!
I sell my T1-3 purple armors/weapons/jewelry/tools for about 95sp vs 500+sp that others want. 95sp is better than the 3sp from vendors, my vault is not cluttered up, and some people with lower lever chars can enjoy my handy work.
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