Thread: Word of advice - if you're not rolling 7 audacity now, don't PVP till you do

Originally Posted by PhantomPunkk

A reasonably well geared and competent Burg remains godmode.


Damage remains tremendous, escape skills are still unparalleled. The fact that CC is halved doesn't mean much, unless you're upset that ganking greenies without pots is less convenient now? The only real thing to upset the status quo on Burg isn't the introduction of Audacity, it is the changes to Wargs and Weavers.

Wow, you're kidding right? CC is non existent if they're popping store brands, you won't even get a slow. You need all 7 pieces of audacity, preferably a 1st age but at least a 2nd age maxed out with good legacies and settings/runes/gems and kindred jewelry to hit 2000K agi to get those tremendous damage aka crits.

Escape skills, LOL, that alone tells me you're not in touch with burgs. I get away but I'm burning all CDs to do it if I have more than 2 wargs or 2 creeps with store trackers after me and I don't always get away. Every Johnny come lately BA bought +stealth but I can't waste a class slot over +2 stealth and every Johny come lately warg bought sense prey and enhanced sense prey, that's not even talking about store trackers.

You don't know me, so you assume I'm like all the other burgs when it comes to ganking greenies.

To compare or mention God mode in the same sentence as 2008 tells me you're WAY out of touch or are a newer player. You ain't seen God mode till you played against a burg in 2008. That was cakewalk days for them. Are burgs unplayable like Everborn whines endlessly about? No but they ain't God mode and I laugh everything I hear anyone mention it.

I think it's funny the two most overpowered freep classes in the moors, minstrel and champion, are screaming that burgs are "god mode"

I seriously think they're doing that because they're trying to take the focus off themselves being the actual "god mode"

Originally Posted by MalonSaria

I think it's funny the two most overpowered freep classes in the moors, minstrel and champion, are screaming that burgs are "god mode"

I seriously think they're doing that because they're trying to take the focus off themselves being the actual "god mode"

Mines nearly rank 9, so nope.

Yes, yes. We've all heard it now boys and girls. Freeps are OP and god-mode, and if they aren't now they will most certainly be in the enxt patch. So our best option would be to remove freeps from ettens completely to solve that problem. Then we have the problem of newly dinged 75's not being able to kill r15 Creeps with A7. Creeps should also be banned from the moors since they kill people (nasty habit that one, shame on you!). So if we remove both freep and creep population from the moors we've solved this little problem once and for all. Does anyone object?

What's the creep answer to players with 2k+ main stat, 1st Ages, Kindred Jewlery & A7?

Rank? What rank creep equals the above Freep?

Originally Posted by Mortlach

What's the creep answer to players with 2k+ main stat, 1st Ages, Kindred Jewlery & A7?

Rank? What rank creep equals the above Freep?

Maybe you didn't get the memo, but it does take a LOT of time to get all that done for a freep. Add in the grind to lvl 75, LI weapons, crafting for LI runes, etc. and I think you'd get the same amount of time as a r10+ creep.
Creeps aren't supposed to just be able to roll a new char and start ganking well-geared freeps. I don't expect my r2 weaver to put up much, if any, of a fight to other experienced PvPers. I expect (well, wish... considering what it's like right now) my hunter main to put up a much better fight.
You're gonna have to put a lot of time into a creep char to be able to compete with a top-notch freep. But it's vice versa too.

Originally Posted by Bond007

Maybe you didn't get the memo, but it does take a LOT of time to get all that done for a freep. Add in the grind to lvl 75, LI weapons, crafting for LI runes, etc. and I think you'd get the same amount of time as a r10+ creep.
Creeps aren't supposed to just be able to roll a new char and start ganking well-geared freeps. I don't expect my r2 weaver to put up much, if any, of a fight to other experienced PvPers. I expect (well, wish... considering what it's like right now) my hunter main to put up a much better fight.
You're gonna have to put a lot of time into a creep char to be able to compete with a top-notch freep. But it's vice versa too.

Unfortunately, the above is the typical freep who thinks:

time = skill

new char = no pvp skill

Socialization of skill (skill should be distributed as Turbine sees fit, regardless of player ability)

Character progress in PvP = Character progress in PvE


What do all of the above have in common Creepsies?

They're all fallacies! *golf clap*

Originally Posted by Mortlach

What's the creep answer to players with 2k+ main stat, 1st Ages, Kindred Jewlery & A7?

Rank? What rank creep equals the above Freep?

You get there at about rank 20.

I'll address some replies in a week or 2 when I have more time but this thread has degenerated into a "burgs are God mode or not" aka Everborn dispute and who's more OP minis or burgs, poor wardens, an update and they still can't get respect.

But when I said roll 7 audacity, I meant for ALL classes on both creepside and freepside. If you're a weaver with 1 audacity or a hunter with 1 audacity, you'll get squashed, so get it, then PVP because I tried for a week to get it THRU PVP because I despise people who come to the moors and PVE in a PVP zone but as was pointed out to me on Landroval and a lesson learned on Vilya, Turbine has turned the moors into a PVE zone

Get 7 audacity whoever you may be on whatever server on whatever class whether creep or freep or find out the hard way like I did why you should.

I didn't post this in creep forum cause 1. people who double post get flak for doing so and 2. most creeps are doing it anyway but I'm seeing rank 10 players who haven't played for awhile and new rank 1 players who just stepped into PVP running around without any idea that audacity even exists or anything else. So it's a heads up for THOSE players.

Originally Posted by MechFierce

Unfortunately, the above is the typical freep who thinks:#

time = skill

Ah so you already know all about a class before you even play it right? Shoot, you got me real good there buddy. #It's not that time = skill it's that effort = skill. #Effort very often correlates with time spent on a char (not always the case, but very often).#

Originally Posted by MechFierce

new char = no pvp skill

Once again, way to misinterpret. #New char = no skill on that char. Not no PvP knowledge.

Originally Posted by MechFierce

Socialization of skill (skill should be distributed as Turbine sees fit, regardless of player ability)

Ah, well done. You joined the Hate Turbine bandwagon and somehow applied that to me.

Originally Posted by MechFierce

Character progress in PvP = Character progress in PvE[COLOR=#00ff00]

This only applies to freeps, so I'm going to answer it from my freep's point of view. You can't get LIs from PvP, you can't get deeds and this virtues from PvP, you can't get all your jewelry from PvP, etc. etc. etc. Pardon me for breaking into your cave, but you do have to PvE at least a little before you are even capable of PvPing. That's how the game works. #For creepside it's a completely different ball of wax but the same grind.
Oh I'm sorry. Can I have a new option for rolling a lvl 75 freep character of any class with a full suit of my choice of a PvP armor set and jewelry of my choice as well? Also, 2 free second age LIs and a couple gold just to clean up the odd repair bill in case a npc happens to get the kb on me. #This option would restrict the freep to PvP only, but all of the above would apply.#
Wait, you say no? But, but, I can't just roll any new character, freep or creep, and simply jump out the door and learn my class as i go along facerolling the moors? That's, that's not fair! *goes to corner and cries*

Start from the bottom, work your way up. That's how both sides should get to better gear (freeps) and better skills/rank promotions (creeps). Oops, I forgot. You can buy your skills for TP. Looks like you guys get to jump one step at least, yet somehow some of you still whine. #It's always the same people too, the ones with lvl 20 freeps or freeps who haven't seen 1 second of moors action. Look at it from the other side and maybe you wouldn't be so biased.#

Originally Posted by PhantomPunkk

On Burg? Really? REALLY? The same Burgs that can still easily hit for 2k+ on Creeps with max audacity and negate all melee damage to themselves for 10s and chain CC most anything into oblivion?

Burg is one class I imagine to be feeling the pain of audacity least of all.

This is from

Sezneg

Join Date: Sep 2007Posts: 3,391

posted in this forum http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.p...city-is-broken!

Regarding chain CC he writes:

"This is misinformation.

Take a creep with 7 audacity and let's look at how burg stuns work on them.

riddle (improved) = max of 7.5 seconds, 5 of which will not end on damage.

startling twist = max of 4 seconds

Conjunction stun = max of 2.5 seconds.

The end of a stun gives 10 seconds of immunity to stuns, so the only way to combine these skills is to:

Riddle>Twist>CJ.

Assuming you didn't use a stun pot, this would be:

~5.5 seconds for the riddle and shake-off animation followed by 2 seconds for twist and then .6 seconds for the CJ (with about .5 seconds of the shake-off animation). That's a grand total of 8.6 seconds of lockdown at the cost of using 3 cooldowns. Before audacity, JUST startling twist would be 8 seconds.

If you pot the riddle, you are looking at 3.1 seconds of sun.

This is many magnitudes better than things as they existed pre-audacity."

Good burg can won creep without any stuns and stupid cd´s. L2p Pibb.

For those who never played in SoA days or have short term memory

True God mode days for burgs (I was creep in those days, Pibb was only level 40 then)

Written by someone else:

http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.p...02#post6089202

Re: LOTRO OP PvP Freep / Creep Classes of the Past?

"The crown in SoA would go to LMs and burglars.

LMs because crowd control would actually stick and last, combined with debuffs, generally low damage output from creeps, CC immunity and slow debuffs that stacked, that made creeps pretty helpless. It was quite common for a lore-master to escape a large number of creeps if it came to that.

Burglars would typically have over 40% parry/evade, using Touch & Go for +50% evade they pretty much would take no damage whatsoever, not many skills/ways to get around avoidances back then. "Dust in the Eyes" used to stack also (and pretty much any burg would have it traited for the AOE version) and fellowship maneuvers worked on creeps (green green green, burgs back to full health), burg squads were insanely overpowered."

Just because burg was OP in SoA =/= Burg can't possibly be a powerful (not OP) class in Moors anymore.
Burgs aren't bad off, adjust to the change.

Originally Posted by Macgregor1821

I've tested fighting different creep classes in the 6/6 pre-U6 armor set and with the 3 pieces of new armor set (unseen) against different ranked creeps and outside of greenies, you cannot damage creeps enough before they damage you if you only have 1 audacity.

PVE and avoid fights till you can get 7 audacity or be sure to be in a large group or raid till you do.

Not true not true and1 more time not true.

My rk has Au1 and spared many creep trough defiler/wargs/reavers with diffrent amoutn of au lvl trough 3-7 i was able to win about 70% was losing only to high ranked wargs and some reavers.

The underlying problem, at least if you're unfortunate to be a new creep (and to a lesser extent freep) is that you cannot gain audacity unless you kill stuff or do quests. As a freep that's not a problem really since you get gear and audacity at the same time, as a new creep you NEED the skills AND corruptions BUT you cannot afford them since you NEED audacity which you cannot afford IF you get skills BUT if you don't get skills you CAN buy audacity BUT you cannot kill stuff since you have NO skills

Originally Posted by Macgregor1821

This is from

Sezneg

Join Date: Sep 2007Posts: 3,391

posted in this forum http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.p...city-is-broken!

Regarding chain CC he writes:

"This is misinformation.

Take a creep with 7 audacity and let's look at how burg stuns work on them.

riddle (improved) = max of 7.5 seconds, 5 of which will not end on damage.

startling twist = max of 4 seconds

Conjunction stun = max of 2.5 seconds.

The end of a stun gives 10 seconds of immunity to stuns, so the only way to combine these skills is to:

Riddle>Twist>CJ.

Assuming you didn't use a stun pot, this would be:

~5.5 seconds for the riddle and shake-off animation followed by 2 seconds for twist and then .6 seconds for the CJ (with about .5 seconds of the shake-off animation). That's a grand total of 8.6 seconds of lockdown at the cost of using 3 cooldowns. Before audacity, JUST startling twist would be 8 seconds.

If you pot the riddle, you are looking at 3.1 seconds of sun.

This is many magnitudes better than things as they existed pre-audacity."

The two freep classes most "hurt" by audacity are Burgs and LMs.

Both rely on CC and medium cooldown burst damage, and these are the two elements most weakened by audacity.

Originally Posted by Macgregor1821

Wow, you're kidding right? CC is non existent if they're popping store brands, you won't even get a slow. You need all 7 pieces of audacity, preferably a 1st age but at least a 2nd age maxed out with good legacies and settings/runes/gems and kindred jewelry to hit 2000K agi to get those tremendous damage aka crits.

Escape skills, LOL, that alone tells me you're not in touch with burgs. I get away but I'm burning all CDs to do it if I have more than 2 wargs or 2 creeps with store trackers after me and I don't always get away. Every Johnny come lately BA bought +stealth but I can't waste a class slot over +2 stealth and every Johny come lately warg bought sense prey and enhanced sense prey, that's not even talking about store trackers.

You don't know me, so you assume I'm like all the other burgs when it comes to ganking greenies.

To compare or mention God mode in the same sentence as 2008 tells me you're WAY out of touch or are a newer player. You ain't seen God mode till you played against a burg in 2008. That was cakewalk days for them. Are burgs unplayable like Everborn whines endlessly about? No but they ain't God mode and I laugh everything I hear anyone mention it.

I didn't take store items into consideration, for obvious reasons. I never singled you out, so direct your QQ to someone else. Burgs are still godmode. Are you really QQ-ing you can't win when the odds are against you? That would be the SoA Burg, yeah. Burgs aren't that good anymore. When the odds are more or less even though? Burg wins everytime. Still very OP.

Originally Posted by Cillion

fixed this for you ! One could think you say only Burgs are godmode... tsk tsk

One would be mistaken. Anyone with half a brain knows RKs/Mins/Guards/Champs/Wardens are all also very OP.

And my point was, very simply...that it isn't Audacity that is giving most Burgs issues now. It is the Weaver and Warg changes. Unless of course, to reiterate, Burgs are upset they can't kill Creeps without stun pots as easily as before. Tragic, I'm sure.

Originally Posted by Bazkanaggi

Good burg can won creep without any stuns and stupid cd´s. L2p Pibb.

http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.p...Classes-to-1v1

Originally Posted by Thorebane

I don't know whats the shouting about ... I run with rank 1 and I still hit a creep 5K+ on remorseless, 2.5K devs on brutals sometimes but overall I still win ... I'm not actually noticing a difference.

These were on creeps with A 4+

I am hitting like a feather now against the creeps. Max crit i saw on remorsless was 2.5k. On R1,2 or 3 i have seen 5k but thats kind off logical. But this is something my Rank of audicaty doesnt alter. So only thing i can do is get the suit en lose might and just take less damage so i survive longer to keep on hitting the creep.

I dont get it why they want to make fghts longer.. What does it add ? Its just another grindament for nothing in my eyes. Set bonusses also suck IMO for champs. If they would take the old set and put the stat on there would be much better in my opinion.

Originally Posted by Witalik

I am hitting like a feather now against the creeps. Max crit i saw on remorsless was 2.5k. On R1,2 or 3 i have seen 5k but thats kind off logical. But this is something my Rank of audicaty doesnt alter. So only thing i can do is get the suit en lose might and just take less damage so i survive longer to keep on hitting the creep.

I dont get it why they want to make fghts longer.. What does it add ? Its just another grindament for nothing in my eyes. Set bonusses also suck IMO for champs. If they would take the old set and put the stat on there would be much better in my opinion.

I have to confess I'm one of the guilty ones about wanting longer fights in the past, so it's one of those be careful what you wish for situations.

I was at grams at 3 am fighting 2 defilers 3 wargs 2 BAs 1 WL and 2 reavers (one who switched back and forth to rank 7 warleader) with 2 minstrels, 1 gaurd, 1 champ and 2 hunters after almost 3 hours of them hugging the one shotters 90% of the time (half were ranked and only the reaver was green) we'd killed the 2 defilers twice, the green reaver several times, the BA once and one of the wargs twice. They'd killed the 2 minstrels about 2 or 3 times and the hunters half a dozen times. It was ridiculous between the bubbles, HOTs, flayer mode/bubble and BA evade/bubble routines. Finally everyone said, it's late, going to bed. They'd just use the 1 shotters for cover, bubble/HOTs zerg the hunters, rinse and repeat. We'd pull back from grams, they wouldn't leave, sit there 20 or 30 minutes, waiting, 1 would come (in this case a new r4 spider) push up alone, die against 7 freeps the others were still on top of the rock at grams. With HOTs and 7 audacity 2 wargs couldn't be damaged beyond 20% the entire time while 6 freeps pounded on them as they went for the minstrel (the other had logged at that point) we'd drag th fight towards Isen, wargs would realize it, head back for HOTs or a bubble.

Originally Posted by Witalik

I am hitting like a feather now against the creeps. Max crit i saw on remorsless was 2.5k. On R1,2 or 3 i have seen 5k but thats kind off logical. But this is something my Rank of audicaty doesnt alter. So only thing i can do is get the suit en lose might and just take less damage so i survive longer to keep on hitting the creep.

I dont get it why they want to make fghts longer.. What does it add ? Its just another grindament for nothing in my eyes. Set bonusses also suck IMO for champs. If they would take the old set and put the stat on there would be much better in my opinion.

yes i really dilike the new 'audacity' thing as a new freep i have only 1 audacity, wich is not good enough to take down creeps with 7 audacity, especally being they know im new so they hunt me-.-, so i can kill to get commys and buy the gear because i dont have the audacity the gear will give, so im stuck between a rock and hard placw with my only option being quest pve, been doing from 1-75 and its old now, or join a raid that dosent want me because i suck without audacity gear.

Originally Posted by Macgregor1821

I have to confess I'm one of the guilty ones about wanting longer fights in the past, so it's one of those be careful what you wish for situations.

I was at grams at 3 am fighting 2 defilers 3 wargs 2 BAs 1 WL and 2 reavers (one who switched back and forth to rank 7 warleader) with 2 minstrels, 1 gaurd, 1 champ and 2 hunters after almost 3 hours of them hugging the one shotters 90% of the time (half were ranked and only the reaver was green) we'd killed the 2 defilers twice, the green reaver several times, the BA once and one of the wargs twice. They'd killed the 2 minstrels about 2 or 3 times and the hunters half a dozen times. It was ridiculous between the bubbles, HOTs, flayer mode/bubble and BA evade/bubble routines. Finally everyone said, it's late, going to bed. They'd just use the 1 shotters for cover, bubble/HOTs zerg the hunters, rinse and repeat. We'd pull back from grams, they wouldn't leave, sit there 20 or 30 minutes, waiting, 1 would come (in this case a new r4 spider) push up alone, die against 7 freeps the others were still on top of the rock at grams. With HOTs and 7 audacity 2 wargs couldn't be damaged beyond 20% the entire time while 6 freeps pounded on them as they went for the minstrel (the other had logged at that point) we'd drag th fight towards Isen, wargs would realize it, head back for HOTs or a bubble.

This sounds more like a Player Mindset problem to me.Rush out to zerg the *easy* targets,and then back to safety until cooldowns used are back up etc,sadly pretty common on both sides it seems.

Audacity isnt bad by default,longer fights/less dmg freepside especcialy/better stats creepside etc,some classes profit too much from it tho,turbine needs to work on it :3.

And overall i agree,it is a Timesink,a way to keep players busy till the next update etc. But thats how MMOs work,time is money after all..

Having made my comeback this weekend with r1 audacity on all my chars,
I see no problem killing ranked creeps with my freep classes.

Vice versa is a different story though, getting nuked to bits in no time, need to get my audacity ranks on creeps asap

Originally Posted by Dodam

Having made my comeback this weekend with r1 audacity on all my chars,
I see no problem killing ranked creeps with my freep classes.

Vice versa is a different story though, getting nuked to bits in no time, need to get my audacity ranks on creeps asap

Ymiriad Champion rank 10~ Dodam Minstrel rank 7~

Well yeah you know ^.^

my bare skin has over 9000 audacity so I roll nude 24/7

Originally Posted by Cillion

Ymiriad Champion rank 10~ Dodam Minstrel rank 7~

Well yeah you know ^.^

Yeah, for some classes it's a even more easy then others

Made first 9 ranks on champ during MoM and early SoM. was a lot more challenging and fun back then :d

Originally Posted by Dodam

Yeah, for some classes it's a even more easy then others

Made first 9 ranks on champ during MoM and early SoM. was a lot more challenging and fun back then :d

/sign


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