LMs can crit from 2-4k Lightning Storm on a single hit. 2*3=6k 4*3=12k It is possible. On highranked WL or defiler with r7 audacity is it likely? Probably never going to happen.
Depending on the ability of the LM Ents can crit from 3-5k and dev from 6-8k from what I have seen. On 5 targest Ents can easily be hitting 20k+ damage.
With stacking burning embers LMs and the previously listed crit abilities LMs easily have some of the highest AoE and Singletarget dps behind the RK and hunter for singletarget. Possbily a very good champ.
With 7k+Wisdom crits and well timed flanks/superb kiting abilities LMs also have good survivability. Compared to a champ/guard/mini? No, but to a RK/hunter other high dps'ers yes.
Adding their debuffs -30% tact -30% melee -50% ranged damage as well as being able to stack the most miss chance of any class, which bypasses Finesse, LMs should honestly never loose 1v1s except to a lucky warg or possibly reaver. They are an extremely powerful class and if not for the overpoweredness of the mini and champ would likely be taking the brunt of creep QQ and rightfully so.
Sounds good on paper, now play a LM and try to 1v1 a skilled warg or reaver. They don't have to be lucky to win, I play all of these classes.
Sounds good on paper, now play a LM and try to 1v1 a skilled warg or reaver. They don't have to be lucky to win, I play all of these classes.
Airfuri does have an LM, R9 I believe. From what I've seen he's active in 1v1s and could beat a ' skilled ' warg or reaver. What ' skilled ' is in your terms might, of course, be diffrent in others, so there will be no true way to prove his point or yours.
Airfuri does have an LM, R9 I believe. From what I've seen he's active in 1v1s and could beat a ' skilled ' warg or reaver. What ' skilled ' is in your terms might, of course, be diffrent in others, so there will be no true way to prove his point or yours.
With both players having 7 audacity, mouse turning, getting positional damage (warg), and not using any cooldowns like wisdom of the council or call to the valar, sprint, hips, etc the LM is at a disadvantage. At this point I'll just agree to disagree, but I just can't stand people wanting nerfs to LMs, one of the weakest moors solo classes just above captains and wardens.
Throw Ancient Craft pop Call to Valar in that time you are almost always able to get off both Ents and Stormlore especially if you put some space between the two of you first. Except against the sturdiest of wargs, morale traited flayer ect. These two skills will be able to take 50-90% of their health unless you have awful luck with crits/resists or are poorly geared. From that point Light of Rising Dawn and Burning embers are not that hard to get off usually just gotta watch the interrupt bleed. With SI you are also unable to be cc chained unlike other dps classes and without tar your slows are pretty equal though warg will likely be moving at 105-110% runspeed naturally.
My point is that LMs are extemely viable both solo and in raids and could use with a slight nerf with their crit mutipliers. IMO that is what hurts the moors the most right now, freepside crits. LMs champs mini rks hunters crit damage is simply to high to be countered except by creeps traited 10k+ morale which hurts are dps/healing incredibly.
Last edited by mager555; Mar 28 2012 at 11:48 PM.
Airfury
Long Gone
Et sicut ego vado respicio et inhorrescere ad caecitate vestra
Get Rid of the invisible roadblock at the top of TA stairs!!
Agreed this is truly game-breaking
My name is Purebloodnakh, Chieftain of Saruman's Armies of the North, General of the Warg Legions, loyal servant to the true Lord, Sauron. And I will have my vengeance, in this life or the next.
QQ much? Oh I'd say you suck after watching you're gameplay, bout multiple toons...You got no clue MR.Freeps-aint-OP-and-I-know-everything-about-1v1s.
Says the ba that uses the "hold down the s key while clicking my skills" technique. And every picture you post on these forums is not funny, it's just an utter fail.
Edit: I find it extremely hilarious that you said "QQ much?" You were born to be a failtroll. Do you even know what QQing is?
1. I guarantee you that warden knockdown is NOT effected by Audacity. At all. I have rank 2 audacity. I got knocked down by a warden. I moused over the tool tip. It's still 5seconds. Also, I don't consider revenge a cooldown. VT is though. No reason to use VT when your target isn't going to die because you can't do enough dmg.
2. The Lms on my server both have high survivability and ridiculous damage. Is their damage as high as it was before U6? Of course not, audacity takes 30% off. As far as the hits, The 8k ents came from an LM using level 65 gear on a rather low rank. Yes it was a low rank, but still, level 65gear and a purple lvl 75 3rd age. The 12k lightning storm comes from an LM that hit 3900 on a lightning strike dev on a rank 4 or 5 audacity spider.
3. Even without Minis or captains it's darn near impossible to kill an LM by yourself when your damage is reduced by 38% and they hit WoTC which heals them for up to their entire health bar.
I was under the impression Audacity did affect true knockdown durations. DR does not though.
I know for sure it affects Warg Topple.
Last edited by PhantomPunkk; Mar 29 2012 at 04:02 AM.
Allow Monster Players to barter for a Scroll (just like Freeps) or some other method than using a Class Slot
Wargs traiting Shadow Damage is ridiculous....We need that extra Class slot
OR if we are forced to trait...then give us OPTIONS in Damage-Type (just like Freeps)
Allow Wargs to do Fire or Poison damage etc
FREEPS ONLY NEED A SCROLL AND CAN CHOOSE FROM MULTIPLE DAMAGE TYPES
I completely agree and support the OP, I mainly play freep but love my warg for late night fun and frolicks but often feel the creeps get various updates but no-one dares fix the underlying issues that have been around since Moria (maybe even SoA)
Reavers being able to use charge in battle would be really nice. Pretty sure some freep classes have some sort of sprint they use in combat, since I see them bolting away when they're losing...
Some Reaver buffs would be nice as well, but I think the charge issue is a bigger one, at least for me.
come back when you have tried out the grind on creepside from a r0 point of view, freeps have no biggie grind like creeps does. get facts straight before giving voice to mad ideas.
This is my favorite quote of the whole thread. Just pure win written all over it. MAD IDEAS!
Did you forget these freepside grinds?:
-Level 1 to 75 questing
-Legendary weapon grind once at 75 (includes first obtaining the weapon, then leveling it, then getting the right legacies, then grinding for days to get the legacies all tiered up)
-Legendary secondary item leveled - see above
-5 virtues at a minimum to max
-Class traits
-Legendary traits
-Skirmishes/instance grind for armor to be competitive initially (craftable armor is a jolly joke, quest gear is even worse).
-Jewelry
-Consumables (food, potions, etc.) -- as a hunter, i have 10 different consumables I take with me that I have to craft
Ok, now we can enter the Moors.
You're right, freeps have no grind. We can just PvP 5 minutes after making our class.
This is my favorite quote of the whole thread. Just pure win written all over it. MAD IDEAS!
Did you forget these freepside grinds?:
-Level 1 to 75 questing
-Legendary weapon grind once at 75 (includes first obtaining the weapon, then leveling it, then getting the right legacies, then grinding for days to get the legacies all tiered up)
-Legendary secondary item leveled - see above
-5 virtues at a minimum to max
-Class traits
-Legendary traits
-Skirmishes/instance grind for armor to be competitive initially (craftable armor is a jolly joke, quest gear is even worse).
-Jewelry
-Consumables (food, potions, etc.) -- as a hunter, i have 10 different consumables I take with me that I have to craft
Ok, now we can enter the Moors.
You're right, freeps have no grind. We can just PvP 5 minutes after making our class.
The point (while very poorly worded) is not that there is more of a grind on Creepside than freepside.. but how difficult that grind actually is. Freeps don't have to worry about getting ganked while leveling from level 1-75 or grinding legendaries etc etc.. freeps don't reach a new level and then don't have the required currency to buy their next skill (unless very poorly handled..) When I see casual players that are just trying out creep for the first time post on these forums I usually see how aweful an experience it was for them.. Obviously if freepside was the same aweful experience then they wouldn't still be playing the game..
One of the few small problems I see in the warleader class is that you have 3 healing skills (one of them in a 5-10m CD), so if you're trying to go full heal there will be moments where you will be sitting just waiting for the cooldowns to recover.
Same goes for damaging, you have 5 damaging skills, yet there will be few spaces where all of them are on CD.
Sure the art of playing a warleader is on mixing both in a perfect manner, but I don't think that justifies.
Freep: Esegar
Creep: Alberigo, Tocu, Parasect, Flamenguista, Seroxat and Tylerdurdenn
This is my favorite quote of the whole thread. Just pure win written all over it. MAD IDEAS!
The posters comments were in relation to commendations from questing - new creeps need commendations for purchasing basic skills/traits, and forget about lower ranks having enough comms for audacity. Unfortunately until pricing is changed quest comms are pretty much required for new creeps. (A rank2 reaver without the ability to buy a single trait/skill is not going to be a pvp infamy/comms earning machine. - more likely a renown node and free rallying cries for freep raids)
Originally Posted by Odin_of_Freyr
....freep grind....
IMO both sides have grinds. They aren't the same, but the content is different for both sides. I'm sure if creepside had the expanse of content and 24/7 (freep free) scaled PVE available to them to improve their toons as there is available freepside....we'd have a lot more rank15 creeps running around The introduction of comms (&cap) and audacity, has/will render insta a rolling a new creep and being useful, let alone being "competitive" a thing of the past imo.
...too lazy to look up the specific numbers, but I recall Vyxe's data from the fall had the top 5% of creeps earning ~1k infamy/day....so assuming you are in the top 5% of infamy earners, how long would it take said creep to achieve rank8? How does that compare to your "freep grind" above? I don't think there is magnitudes of difference anymore - especially if you are on a lower/mid pop server where gains are even lower for a creep.
...people barely got all their r1 traits/skills by r4 and you wanna reduce the income with 40-75%, you dont get much commendations from freeps + the fact that in groups you earn even less, now the day a r0-2 get to kill a 75 freep solo and earn 50 commendations...increase the commendations from freeps with 300-500% otherwise, no.
its easy for the high ranked to say this, but for a r0? bye bye newcomers, many people would stop beginning with PvMP if this stupid idea was given life.
As I said in my previous post, they need to change the system.
Originally Posted by Aurthur
1. I guarantee you that warden knockdown is NOT effected by Audacity. At all. I have rank 2 audacity. I got knocked down by a warden. I moused over the tool tip. It's still 5seconds. Also, I don't consider revenge a cooldown. VT is though. No reason to use VT when your target isn't going to die because you can't do enough dmg.
Afaik, wardens are the only freep class with knockdowns atm. 25% chance for an in-combat one on a really useless skill, and an ooc one with an induction.
Then you got wargs with the proc KD, topple, and ba's with headshot trait.
BA's and the warg proc will be the same duration as a wardens ambush/boars rush at max audacity. A wargs topple will be 5sec with max audacity.
Creepside has far more accessibility towards KD's than freepside does. How many wargs and BA's do you see to every warden?
.
Creepside has far more accessibility towards KD's than freepside does.
May the gods forbid the Creeps ever have a single advantage over the Freeps
My name is Purebloodnakh, Chieftain of Saruman's Armies of the North, General of the Warg Legions, loyal servant to the true Lord, Sauron. And I will have my vengeance, in this life or the next.
1) Defiler - Less inductions more dps/heals, something to make this toon more interesting. Self bubble or 3
2) BA - All good, but would like the chance to trait higher for DPS or Crit/dev magnitude
3) Warg - Seems ok, prolly got enough diversity now
4) Weaver - Still hits too soft on freeps, a lot of improvements have made it better, but more dps plz
5) Reaver - Dps should be higher or at least have a wider range of potential high hits...more dev magnitude
6) WL - No inductions should be traitable..not the chance to have.
7) Hunter - Give them an out/escape/safe skill, but make it traitable as a legendary, so they have to give up dps for the option.
8) Mini - Nerf!! - either reduce bubble, nerf healing in WS, or make em even squishier..:P
9) Champ - make one of the bubbles not work in moors.
10) LM - Stacking fire dots..not in the moors, remember the Alamo.
11) Burg - stop the spamable exploit skills
12) Warden - Perhaps u went a little too far last time, dont give em anything for at least a year.
13) RK - starwars is that-a-way --->
14) Guard - Honestly dont mind em atm.
15) Cappys - Hmmmm annoying in groups, but fine as they are.
So many skils/traits that u "have to have", there is almost no variety in playing a creep. Give us more diverse traits, make some of the existing ones PASSIVES, and for the lowbie ranks, reduce the cost of skills.
My name is Purebloodnakh, Chieftain of Saruman's Armies of the North, General of the Warg Legions, loyal servant to the true Lord, Sauron. And I will have my vengeance, in this life or the next.
May the gods forbid the Creeps ever have a single advantage over the Freeps
Cool pic. Wasn't complaining about that.
My view;
Defilers = + heals + heals + damage.
Warleaders = + heals + mits + tanky survival skill + CC + more reliable slow and melee
Wargs = seem fine now
BA's = More interuptable CC, less spammable hinder. Slight + to damage
Reavers = +damage to all but DS (it is pretty devastating now imo :P)
Weavers = Seem fine, but have not thoroughly tested or experienced any needed changes thus far. Could probably use a bit more damage.
Only freep classes that could use some love is LM's I think, they need a bit more survivability due to not being able to rely on CC.
Afaik, wardens are the only freep class with knockdowns atm. 25% chance for an in-combat one on a really useless skill, and an ooc one with an induction.
Then you got wargs with the proc KD, topple, and ba's with headshot trait.
BA's and the warg proc will be the same duration as a wardens ambush/boars rush at max audacity. A wargs topple will be 5sec with max audacity.
Creepside has far more accessibility towards KD's than freepside does. How many wargs and BA's do you see to every warden?
If you're going to quote my post, please read it. The warden KD is 5seconds regardless of audacity. This is what I'm complaining about. Warden KD is not affected by audacity and it NEEDS to be. Just to be clear: IF I HAVE RANK 7 AUDACITY, WARDEN KNOCKDOWN WILL STILL BE 5SECONDS BECAUSE AUDACITY DOES NOT AFFECT IT.
Also you need to play more BA because BA KD is 3s so 1.5seconds with audacity that's a 25% chance on a fairly useless skill. That requires a trait.
BA KD is 3s so 1.5seconds with audacity that's a 25% chance on a fairly useless skill. That requires a trait.
/agreed
Yeah, it is a chance, only when traited, and therefore you lose a slot u could put another skill or buff. Yet i hear so many freeps calling it OP??..how in any way, shape, or form is this trait OP.
The warden dosnt have to trait, its 100%?...lasts longer, and since freeps damage is so much higher, it is massively OP in comparison.
My name is Purebloodnakh, Chieftain of Saruman's Armies of the North, General of the Warg Legions, loyal servant to the true Lord, Sauron. And I will have my vengeance, in this life or the next.
Lovin' some of the ideas presented in this thread 8D
Lemme add another... Defiler rez should have no cd.... and defiler's Fell Restoration should have no induction on a 30s cd (maybe I'm just being a heal hungry reaver 8P). Speaking of reavers... DYING RAGE SHOULD EITHER NOT ACTIVATE WHEN WE'RE STUNNED OR CURE CC... cause having a 10 minute cd skill go off in a stun right before I'm murdered is so 8( 8( 8( 8(
Traits to remove and make rank gated passives for a reaver.
Quick Strikes. Make Enhanced Blood Lust class trait.
Burning Blades. Make passive to redesign class traits that focus on enhanced skills.
Power Boost. Make passive to redesign class traits that focus on enhanced skills.
Resist Boost. Make passive to redesign class traits that focus on enhanced skills.
//////////////////////////////////////////////////////
Change current and add new traits for a reaver.
//////////////////////////////////////////////////////
1 Enhanced Blade Toss. Make blade toss a rank gated skill in it's current form and change it to throwing knives on it's traited form, does not disarm you but hits for less while adding a slow. When in range and target dies able to recover your throwing knives resetting it's cd.
2 Enhanced Resilience. Make resilience a rank gated skill increasing its cd to 3m. Traited version -90s to cd.
3 Enhanced Against The Odds. Make against the odds a rank gated skill that restores 10% max morale/power. Traited version restores 20% max morale/power.
4 Enhanced Jagged Cut. Redesign the jagged cut skill to include a dot that lasts 6s 100-150 fire damage every 2s. Traited version 50% chance to apply a 20s dot.
5 Enhanced Upper Hand. Increase the armor buff to 30s.
6 Enhanced Hamstring. Increase untraited versions slow speed to -35%. Traited version -2s cd and applies a small dot.
7 Enhanced Devastating Strike. Keep as is.
8 Enhanced Glory In Victory. Keep as is.
9 Extended Reach. Increases all skill range by 0.5m.
10 Enhanced Blood Lust. Remove quick strikes class trait while decreasing blood lust to -20% attack duration +5% melee critical chance.
My name is Purebloodnakh, Chieftain of Saruman's Armies of the North, General of the Warg Legions, loyal servant to the true Lord, Sauron. And I will have my vengeance, in this life or the next.
My name is Purebloodnakh, Chieftain of Saruman's Armies of the North, General of the Warg Legions, loyal servant to the true Lord, Sauron. And I will have my vengeance, in this life or the next.
Defiler improvements. Moor heals. Moor damage. Fewer induction skills for DPS and/or a handy little consumable to prevent induction knockbacks like ALL the caster freep classes have available.
Elendilmir: ~*~Ryssawyn~*~ (RK)
Acheros (LM) Snozzberries Defiler of great taste.
Blackarrows need an additional skill when flaming arrow, tangle and hindering is down, you cant do anything, but spamming strong pull & punctured whenever its up though I'd be satisfied with headshot 100%.
and once again, skins, skins and more skins!!!
reduce appearance cost, wonder if the devs even try gathering commendations for skins :/
“Progress is made by lazy men looking for easier ways to do things”
Defiler improvements. Moor heals. Moor damage. Fewer induction skills for DPS and/or a handy little consumable to prevent induction knockbacks like ALL the caster freep classes have available.
and cut their morale to half, and i am ok with this
No, Class Traits are meant to make you choose, depending on your build there are 8-9 Class Traits that are useful and you shouldn´t get all of them, otherwise they could be passives too, it´s the same on Freepside, Freeps are crying for an 8th Class Trait Slot, but don´t get it either, for the same reason
Originally Posted by Zoggo
2. All damage types should be passive and not be traited. (agree with op)
I agree with this
Originally Posted by Zoggo
3. Vault and shared vault in Grams.
Sapience already said it´s impossible due to the way Creeps are programmed
Originally Posted by Zoggo
4. Defiler needs a dps stance with quicker inductions.
No, I enjoy my Defiler the way he is far more, than I would a wanna-be WS-Defiler, add an Angmarim-Sorcerer as an offensive Tactical Class if you want, but leave my poor Defiler alone
Give us more Dots, or something that fits the Class, a 10-15% DPS increase, yes please, but not a "blow everything up with ridicolous Healing"-Stance
Originally Posted by Zoggo
5. Defiler/WL need a lot bigger power pools,WL needs more powerful heals especially.
Why? On my Defiler I haven´t had power Problems since I bought advanced Flies. Higher power pools also means skills have higher power cost, thus making this change purely aesthetical
Concerning heals:
I´d give WLs a powerful group heal on a 30s-1min CD only available in Commander Stance
And Defiler need some instant spot heal, that heals at least 4k
Originally Posted by Zoggo
6. Reduction in comms for rank appearance and low rank skills.
Yes, especially appearance cost is ridicolous. Should be like 500.
Oh and an additional Quest for Isendeep would be nice. Maybe the Isendeep Miners or Dwarf Beards quest could count towards the Isendeep Map Deed
Originally Posted by Zoggo
7. Slayer deeds need to give out a lot more comms. (atm they wrong as well, some only give 100 instead of a 1000)
Not "just Creep related" but yes, they should
Originally Posted by Zoggo
8. Turbine Points available creepside. Turbine want us to use the shop but dont give creeps any way to accumulate TP.
In general I´d like to see TP added for all EM Deeds, however those deeds are few and take long, compared to "Kill 30 slugs"
Originally Posted by Zoggo
9. Show our current skins on monster menu not rank 0 ones. (small point I know in light of other gameplay problems )
Yes
Originally Posted by Zoggo
10. Creeps need a lot better crit protection.
We can already slot 6x608 Crit Defence, that means any Creep can get more Crit Defence than a Guardian. I don´t think more is needed
No, I enjoy my Defiler the way he is far more, than I would a wanna-be WS-Defiler, add an Angmarim-Sorcerer as an offensive Tactical Class if you want, but leave my poor Defiler alone
Give us more Dots, or something that fits the Class, a 10-15% DPS increase, yes please, but not a "blow everything up with ridicolous Healing"-Stance
We deserve a DPS stance. Not an OP one like a mini's, not a stance which would make us a hybrid class. But we do deserve one, and *all* the defilers I know want one. If you don't like it, don't use it, nobody's forcing you
Why? On my Defiler I haven´t had power Problems since I bought advanced Flies. Higher power pools also means skills have higher power cost, thus making this change purely aesthetical
1. Tactical Classes have 300% more power than a defiler. In fact, defilers have one of the lowest power pools in the game.
2. The increase in power cost is *not* that much. Look at the raitio of mini/rk heal power cost to power pool. It's miles below defiler heal power cost: power pool.
3. EVERYONE is having power problems with their defilers. Flies give you <100-200 power, which is absolutely pathetic and can be burnt through in a second (I'm not saying they are useless). In long fights, if you are actually doing something, you'l run out of power in a few minutes, unless the freeps are having a group hug for the aoe power drain.
Peaceguy
"With that, I ran back to Hobbiton, Land of the Noobs" - TSK
We deserve a DPS stance. Not an OP one like a mini's, not a stance which would make us a hybrid class. But we do deserve one, and *all* the defilers I know want one. If you don't like it, don't use it, nobody's forcing you
If we don´t become a hybrid class, then I´m ok with it. Maybe add better CC and Debuffs to the Stance. Something like -1s induction to Curses. The first illness applied to a Freep is uncureable
Originally Posted by Haunt123
1. Tactical Classes have 300% more power than a defiler. In fact, defilers have one of the lowest power pools in the game.
2. The increase in power cost is *not* that much. Look at the raitio of mini/rk heal power cost to power pool. It's miles below defiler heal power cost: power pool.
3. EVERYONE is having power problems with their defilers. Flies give you <100-200 power, which is absolutely pathetic and can be burnt through in a second (I'm not saying they are useless). In long fights, if you are actually doing something, you'l run out of power in a few minutes, unless the freeps are having a group hug for the aoe power drain.
I´m not saying we shouldn´t get higher power pools at all, but I think our situation is not that bad, especially in 1vs1. I agree that we are more likely to have power issues in RvR fights. So maybe better/more power efficient group healing would solve the problems
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My name is Purebloodnakh, Chieftain of Saruman's Armies of the North, General of the Warg Legions, loyal servant to the true Lord, Sauron. And I will have my vengeance, in this life or the next.
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My name is Purebloodnakh, Chieftain of Saruman's Armies of the North, General of the Warg Legions, loyal servant to the true Lord, Sauron. And I will have my vengeance, in this life or the next.
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My name is Purebloodnakh, Chieftain of Saruman's Armies of the North, General of the Warg Legions, loyal servant to the true Lord, Sauron. And I will have my vengeance, in this life or the next.
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