First of all, thanks for great list, really need it.
On other hand, the above gambit list declare the obvious - warden become so complicated class + very gear dependent, that it's not fun anymore and nothing for all but superior player. So my own 75 wrd is shelved until warden 3.0.
I am not seeing any Lifetap over time on critical/devastating criticals in Recklessness (e.g. Aggression, Surety of Death, Brink of Victory). If not resisted, I get a 1-shot heal from "Warden Lifetap" with these on criticals, and no effect/debuff is placed on the target to indicate some kind of over-time effect.
The one thing that I didn't notice (not a big deal, but just to make it complete) was in this part:
Top Upfront Damage Gambits
1. Wall of Steel - 1239 Main-Hand Damage
2. The Dark Before Dawn - 1192 Main-Hand Damage
3. Warden's Triumph - 1114 Main-Hand Damage
4. Onslaught - 1074 Main-Hand Damage
5. Combination Strike - 958 Main-Hand Damage
You just did not follow the same format as the rest of the post (I.E., #1 should be something like "1. (1)(2)(1)(2) Wall of Steel... or however you did it ). Just wanted to point that out.
Since Update 6 I've felt like I didn't have a full grasp on what each gambit does yet, so I started to go through each gambit in the different stances and type out what they do in order to drill their various uses into my brain. While doing it, I decided to flesh it out into a full-blown gambit compendium to help anyone else out there who might be confused on what gambits do. It's meant to be a purely factual reference guide for old and new wardens alike.
First off I want to thank you for the hard work you put into this it's a marvelous thread.
Secondly once upon a time there was a very handy entry in the lorebook which laid out the gambits in a chart and which effect you gained from them (viewable here). However this entry is now dated & the information in it doesn't reflect the Update6 changes.
So I hope you don't mind but I created a lorebook entry with chart outlaying the effects of the various gambits depending on their stance. I relied heavily on your post for my information and full credit is given to you in the entry.
Sorry all, I've had some real life things holding me back recently. Still need to add the list sorted by gambit rather than stance, but I did make some other changes:
Originally Posted by Lucanthanas
Only one thing missing: The builders (Quick Thrust/Stab/Toss; Shield Bash/Blast/Behind the, and Warden's Taunt/Scorn/Aim)
The rest is perfect
Good call, I've added those in.
Originally Posted by LagunaD
I am not seeing any Lifetap over time on critical/devastating criticals in Recklessness (e.g. Aggression, Surety of Death, Brink of Victory). If not resisted, I get a 1-shot heal from "Warden Lifetap" with these on criticals, and no effect/debuff is placed on the target to indicate some kind of over-time effect.
I just tested these in game, and it appears that the only lifetap is the initial hit; the DoT effect is just a normal DoT. I'm not sure if this is WAI or not, but I added it to the OP. I tested it on the PB line, I assume it works the same way for the others. I'll test them when I get a chance too. Thanks for pointing this out!
Originally Posted by Harperelle
Shouldn't there be a T3 lifetap on crit for Spear of Virtue in Recklessness? It says so on the tooltip, but I haven't actually tested it myself.
--Harper
You're totally right, not sure how I missed that. Fixed!
Originally Posted by Elrendos
The one thing that I didn't notice (not a big deal, but just to make it complete) was in this part:
Top Upfront Damage Gambits
1. Wall of Steel - 1239 Main-Hand Damage
2. The Dark Before Dawn - 1192 Main-Hand Damage
3. Warden's Triumph - 1114 Main-Hand Damage
4. Onslaught - 1074 Main-Hand Damage
5. Combination Strike - 958 Main-Hand Damage
You just did not follow the same format as the rest of the post (I.E., #1 should be something like "1. (1)(2)(1)(2) Wall of Steel... or however you did it ). Just wanted to point that out.
Fixed this as well, thanks!
Originally Posted by Harperelle
I did some testing tonight, and the lifetaps for Persevere and Safeguard in Assailment do not proc. these two gambits are worthless in this stance.
I'm not sure what differed between our tests, but I just double checked in-game on the dummies in Galtrev and they worked just fine for me. Care to elaborate on the specifics of your test?
Originally Posted by MrsAngelD
First off I want to thank you for the hard work you put into this it's a marvelous thread.
Secondly once upon a time there was a very handy entry in the lorebook which laid out the gambits in a chart and which effect you gained from them (viewable here). However this entry is now dated & the information in it doesn't reflect the Update6 changes.
So I hope you don't mind but I created a lorebook entry with chart outlaying the effects of the various gambits depending on their stance. I relied heavily on your post for my information and full credit is given to you in the entry.
Awesome post. That was a ton of work, and you did it, so... thanks!
I made an excel-sheet that lists the effects of a gambit in the different stances side-by-side, but I have no Idea how to attach the file to this post. Below I copied the list, the formation has gone to hell, if someone knows how to fix this, please give me a hint. I hope I didn't make to many mistakes, will doublecheck the list tomorrow.
I also left out the ranges for the Assailment Gambits (but I can include them again), also I might have to work over the descriptions, sometimes its unclear if a Lifetap is oT or just once and sometimes the durations are missing, but only where they were missing in the initial posts Hope it saves someone some work...
One further Question:
Is there any way to "normalize" the damage so that you can guess how much damage you would do on a lower level? A rough estimate would probably be enough...
Code:
Gambit Determination Recklessness Assailment
1 Quick Thrust Quick Stab Quick Toss
414 mainhand damage 414 mainhand damage 607 javelin damage
+2% pBPE (20s), Stacks*3 +2% melee damage (20s) +1.5% ranged damage (20s)
5% for -5 misschance (15s) 5% for DoT 85
2 Shield Bash Shield Blast Behind the Shield
123 common damage 123 common damage 128 common damage
+2% pBPE (20s), Stacks*3 +2% melee damage (20s) +1.5% ranged damage (20s)
5% for +2100B (15s) 5% to apply -300 cry resistance
3 Warden's Taunt Warden's Scorn Warden's Aim
68 light damage 68 light damage 65 light damage
DoT 32 light damage DoT 32 light damage DoT 32 light damage
+2% pBPE (20s), Stacks*3 +2% melee damage 20s) +1.5% melee damage (20s)
5% for +5% thread through 5% for +5% critical chance
damage and healing (15s)
1 1 Deft Strike
479 mainhand damage 543 mainhand damage 696 javelin damage
Potency Potency Potency
1 2 The Boot
219 common damage 249 common/70 light damage 217 common damage
interrupts inductions interrupts inductions interrupts inductions
25% f 5s daze DoT 60 light damage 25% f 5s root
1 2 1 Onslaught
3 x 358 mainhand damage 3 x 408 mainhand damage 3 x 537 javelin damage
interrupts inductions interrupts inductions interrupts inductions
1 2 1 2 Goad
3 x 413 mainhand damage 3 x 479 mainhand damage 3 x 613 javelin damage
interrupts inductions interrupts inductions interrupts inductions
+1500P 30 dam reflection (30s) any c/f/s reflect 36 damage
10% for 1%mp restore on enemy hit (30s)
1 2 3 Power Attack
604 mainhand damage 684 mainhand damage 861 javelin damage
----------------------------difficult to block-----------------------------
DoT 200 common
1 2 3 1 Mighty Blow
618 main hand damage 702 main hand damage 880 javelin damage
----------------------------difficult to parry/evade-----------------------
DoT 300 common (t2)
Unerring Strike
648 mainhand damage 735 main hand damage 981 javelin damage
DoT 332 common DoT 340 common
----------------------------difficult to b/p/e-----------------------------
1 2 1 3 1 The Dark Before the Dawn
2 x 596 mainhand damage 2 x 677 mainhand damage 2 x 851 javelin damage
+178 Power +178 Power +178 Power
PoT 1%mp Stacks*2 PoT 1%mp Stacks*2 PoT 1%mp Stacks*2
1 3 Offensive Strike
2 x 406 mainhand damage 2 x 460 mainhand damage 2 x 601 javelin damage
+2T Thread LT 135 light DoT 189
1 3 1 Combination Strike
2 x 479 mainhand damage 2 x 543 mainhand damage 2 x 696 javelin damage
DoT 283 common
1 3 1 3 Boar's Rush
602 mainhand damage 684 common damage 595 common damage
----------------------------increased critical chance----------------------
25% f 2s fear 25% f 3s knockdown DoT 340 common
1 3 2 Reversal
479 mainhand damage 543 mainhand damage 696 javelin damage
Removes 1 corruption Removes 1 corruption Removes 1 corruption
1 3 2 1 Adroit Manoeuvre
479 mainhand damage 543 mainhand damage 696 javelin damage
-20% attack duration (20s) -20% attack duration (20s) -20% attack duration (20s)
1 3 2 1 3 Warden's Triumph
1114 main hand damage 1265 main hand damage 1523 javelin damage
+10% melee damage (20s) +10% melee damage (20s) +5% ranged damage (20s)
2 2 Defensive Strike
415 mainhand damage 449 main hand damage 437 javelin damage
Potency Potency Potency
+600B +300 physical mastery (20s) -0.5T Thread
2 1 Persevere
438 mainhand damage 475 mainhand damage 462 javelin damage
HoT 112 DoT 200 common (t1) LT 131
+600B
+2% pB
2 1 2 Safeguard
119 common damage 129 common damage 125 common damage
HoT 296 DoT 300 common (t2) LT 429
+900B
+4% pB
2 1 2 1 Celebration of Skill
438 mainhand damage 475 mainhand damage 462 javelin damage
HoT 370 DoT 360 common (t3) +3% ranged damage to fellowship (10m)
+900B
+2% pB
2 1 2 1 2 Restoration
438 mainhand damage 475 mainhand damage 462 javelin damage
HoT 440 HoT 407 HoT 407
2 1 3 Shields Up
+1500B on c/f/s reflects 25d (30s) Reduces the amount of threat generated from
+1500E on c/f/s 2% chance to reflect d and h by 10% for the fellowship (10m) (10s)
+1500RB -5runspd, +5attdur/5s
2 1 3 1 Shield Mastery
+1500B on c/f/s reflects 54d (30s) Reduces the amount of threat generated from
+1500E on c/f/s 2% chance to reflect d and h by 20% for the fellowship (10m) (10s)
+1500RB -15runspd, +15attdur/5s
2 3 Impressive Flourish
175 light damage 178 light damage 437 javelin damage
DoT 43 light DoT 55 light DoT 44 light
+300 CritDefense DoT 44 light +1% ranged dam to fshp (10m) (10s)
+225 physical mitigation
+225 tactical mitigation
2 3 2 Maddening Strike
232 mainhand damage 495 mainhand damage 481 javelin damage
0.5 TtoW from fellowship 303 light damage +2% ranged dam to fshp (10m) (10s)
+300 CritDefense DoT 243
+225 physical mitigation
+225 tactical mitigation
2 3 2 3 Dance of War
1 TtoW from fellowship -2T +1500E
+1500E +1500E
+600 CritDefense
+338 physical mitigation
+338 tactical mitigation
2 3 2 3 2 Conviction
1 TtoW from fellowship +3000 phyiscal mastery to fshp
HoT 220 to fshp HoT 167 HoT 167
Reduces the amount of threat generated from
d and h by the fshp by 99% (10m) (10s)
2 3 1 Deflection
119 common damage 129 common damage 125 common damage
-3T -3T -3T
2 3 1 2 Shield Tactics
-------------------------- +1238 tactical mitigation (60s) -------------------------
----------------------------- 10s stun immunity (20s cooldown) ---------------------
3 3 Goad
226 light damage 243 light damage 236 light damage
DoT 56 light DoT 60 light DoT 58 light
Potency Potency Potency
+0.5T
3 1 Precise Blow
420 mainhand damage 449 light damage 628 javelin damage
+2T DoT t0 on critical/first tick LT +1% ranged damage for fellowship (10m)(10s)
ToT 0.5T (total 2T)
3 1 3 Piercing Strike
402 mainhand damage 430 mainhand damage 604 javelin damage
180 light damage 194 light damage 182 light damage
+1T DoT 303/243 light on critical +1% ranged damage for fellowship (10m)(10s)
first tick LT
3 1 3 1 Spear of Virtue
446 mainhand damage 477 mainhand damage 662 javelin damage
241 light damage 258 light damage 243 light damage
+3T DoT 303/325 light on critical +2% ranged damage for fellowship (10m)(10s)
first tick LT
3 1 2 Fierce Resolve
LT 115 light LT 135 light LT 99 light
10 Targets / 6m 10 Targets / 6m 10 Targets / 25m
3 1 2 3 Resolution
LT 557 light LT 657 light LT 482 light
10 targets / 6m 10 targets / 6m 10 Targets / 25m
3 1 2 3 2 Exultation of Battle
LT 226 light LT 267 light LT 196 light
10 targets / 6m 10 Targets / 6m 10 Targets / 25m
ToT 2T (Total 8T)
3 2 War-Cry
44 light damage 55 light damage 55 light damage
DoT 44 light DoT 44 light DoT 44 light
HoT 114 hard to parry or evade +1% tactical damage to fellowship
+600E (30s) (t1)
ToT 2T (Total 8T)
10 Targets / 10m
3 2 3 Brink of Victory
226 light damage 303 light damage 295 light damage
DoT 226 light DoT 243 light DoT 236 light
+1T DoT 331 light on critical +1% tactical damage to fellowship
first tick is LT
3 2 3 2 Surety of Death
552 mainhand damage 591 mainhand damage 574 javelin damage
226 light damage 395 light damage
DoT 302 light DoT 323 light DoT 314 light
+900E (10s/30s) (t2) DoT 402 light on critical +2% tactical damage to fellowship
+3T first tick is LT
3 2 3 2 3 Desolation
302 light damage 323 light damage 314 light damage
DoT 332 light DoT 356 light DoT 346 light
----------------------------- Each Tick 25% f 2s fear ------------------------------
--------------------------- 3 Targets (6m) ----------------------------------------
3 2 1 3 Aggression
420 mainhand damage 449 mainhand damage 437 javelin damage
1 TtoW from fellowship DoT 442 light on critical +3% tactical damage to fellowship
first tick LT
Last edited by Saracan; Apr 07 2012 at 09:46 PM.
Reason: readability of the list
War Cry is still an AoE power in Recklessness stance, up to 10 targets, 10m range. Per description and per my testing, although I didn't test 10 targets.
Same for Goad, it still applies to up to 3 targets. Tested with 3 targets.
Regarding tiered evade buffs in Determination, you wrote:
Special Note: Using Surety of Death with War-Cry up does not tier up the buff properly; The only way to tier it up is to use Surety of Death twice. This is probably bugged.
It occurs to me that the reason for this bug is probably that Brink of Victory is supposed to be the Tier 2 evade buff, with Surety of Death as Tier 3. Since Tier 2 (Brink of Victory) is unavailable, the only way to get the extended Tier 3 is to use Surety twice.
Notice the other two tiered buff lines have 2, 3 and 4-icon tiers, but evade is missing the 3-icon tier.
The buff nomenclature also supports this.
Tier 1:
Impressive Flourish: Enduring Armor Use
Persevere: Enduring Shieldwork
War Cry: Enduring Evasion
Tier 2:
Maddening Strike: Advanced Armor Use (or Enduring Advanced Armor Use if tiered)
Safeguard: Advanced Shieldwork (or Enduring Advanced Shieldwork if tiered)
Brink of Victory: *Should* be Advanced Evasion (or Enduring Advanced Evasion if tiered), but missing
Tier 3:
Dance of War: Expert Armor Use (or Enduring Expert Armor Use if tiered)
Celebration of Skill: Expert Shieldwork (or Enduring Expert Shieldwork if tiered)
Surety of Death: Expert Evasion (or Enduring Expert Evasion if tiered)
War Cry is still an AoE power in Recklessness stance, up to 10 targets, 10m range. Per description and per my testing, although I didn't test 10 targets.
Same for Goad, it still applies to up to 3 targets. Tested with 3 targets.
Whoops, forgot to put that detail in there. Thanks for pointing it out, I'll fix it.
Originally Posted by LagunaD
Regarding tiered evade buffs in Determination, ...
Yeah, that was my thinking as well. I didn't dwell on it in the OP because I didn't want to waste space with my own supposition, but I think you're right. Looks to me like they forgot to turn the switch on that gambit from old version to new version. Or just forgot to add the evade. Whoops. Just another of a long list of bugs...
None of the T1 buffs effect subsequent T2 and T3 buffs. So War cry, Impressive Flourish, and Persevere all give buffs, but are overwritten by T2 and T3 versions, and will not proc if those versions are already up. On the plus side, The T1 buffs are all long buffs by default. So its a cheap way to put up a T1 buff for a long time while concentrating on other things. This is particularly true of Persevere if you aren't stacking HoTs. Use it once and you've got a significant +block buff for 30-50s.
Tier 3:
Dance of War: Expert Armor Use (or Enduring Expert Armor Use if tiered)
Just to clear up some confusing (to me) tidbits here:
You say ''or Enduring Expert Armor Use if tiered'' ...well its already Tier 3, are you saying that it's Enduring blah blah blah only if you've done the respective Tier 1 and Tier 2 gambits first?
U6.1:
>>
All Warden physical bleeds will now use the damage type of the weapon that inflicted them.
>>
No more Common DoT, it'll be MH or Shield DoT. On that note, Shield Bash likely does "shield" damage, whatever that happens to be - depending on whether the shield has a damage type other than common applied to it at the time.
I'm only just dusting my warden down after being out-of-action since the level 65 game (have been playing Captain/ RK solely). Started out levelling completely blind after all of the changes.
This will really, really help! Thanks a bunch
-Cal
Caitlyin, Captain --- Calead, Warden ---Rílaísseth, Champion --- Narthivor, RK --- Unguilant r5 Weaver
All on Laurelin --- Proud member of Les Adorables
I started my tenth alt and first warden just two weeks ago, and I became immediately frustrated by the lack of official documentation... (or just plain wrong). Then I found your thread!
I'm using your work as reference while I level up and I'm currently trying to learn (just to limit the strain on my poor old memory cells) only determination stance for the moment, since it seems the best all-purpose stance, at least for my play-style.
I just found a little something that seems lacking however (speaking of determination stance): In the Heal Over Time section is not mentioned Impressive Flourish (23), which gives me the same HOT effect of Persevere (21) (and, strangely enough, it is even mentioned in the tooltip! :-) )
Trying to come back after a very long layoff. Trying to pick up with a higher level character is not so easy in lotr with the sheer number of skills to use situationally. With warden it is harder still since the gambits just become second nature after enough levels. Add to that the changes in the last update and it gets even harder. This post was probably the single best one I read to get back into wardening.
I, myself, am in the process of trying to digest all this info and put it into a spreadsheet. I wanted to chart the power/damage per gambit, figure out a curve and then back track it to the lower levels (my toon is 33 now) but, with all the gambits for even one Stance, it seems like it would be hard to read when graphed. THEN I discovered the importance of listing stuff by Stance. So, IF the power cost is the same (per level the way damage is listed), THEN you can use columns for damage according to stance. So/then, you can sort the spreadsheet by stance and/or input sequence. Yes? No?
I also have a column for effect (i.e., D for Defensive, T for Threat, B for Bleed, L for Leach/Lifetap. I also have a column for number of attacks (some have 2 or 3 per gambit) and I have a single column for N Number effected/R Range.
I'll see if I can upload the current version and come back and add a link. (Humm, can I upload, and can this page display, a spreadsheet?)
I can't figure out how to upload a spreadsheet.
NEVER MIND. I got tired of reading all of the 'I like this' pages that I stopped reading. After continuing to read, I found what I was looking for.
I'm realy impressed by your work. Everybody must be able to adhere a list of gambits for the most common situations.
The better memory/experience u have the better u can adept to special circumstances i suppose by using the most suitible gambits in a special situation (interups, no AoE or whatever)
But how to deal with battle prep? What's the best gambit(s) to perform before starting off the fight? Load ex of Battle while running an start the fight against a big mob getting 8T in a fs as tank?
Is it wise to use goad, defensive strike or deft strike every time between the gambits to load the longer gambits into battle memory and thus being able to shoot them twice in a row? thus tiering up for example surity of death?
In other words where is the tread with discussion about this cause i'm not realy grasping everything and would like some up to date info about this. (an old thead is in the warden guides but i think it's outdated. (not sure about this)
To close this post. I again would like to expres my admiration for the maker.
(excuses for my English, i'm not a native speaker)
Warden is my only character at the moment and I'm trying to learn the class well. I want to be a good Warden. I think the best thing to do for myself is realize it's going to take time to master this class. Hopefully I'll be grouped with people who understand this and will allow a little room for error.
I should most likely master one stance but for some reason I always try and stance dance and get the best of all stances. Sometimes it doesn't work out that well. ;P
Again thanks for this post. It's a been really great to read so far.
“I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend.”
Hi.
Just checking - will there be an update to this thread with the new RoR expansion out?
Is there something worth updating? (my Warden is too low level to notice yet)
Or will there be a new version of this thread?
The information here is VERY useful, so I hope it can be updated...
Hi.
Just checking - will there be an update to this thread with the new RoR expansion out?
Is there something worth updating? (my Warden is too low level to notice yet)
Or will there be a new version of this thread?
The information here is VERY useful, so I hope it can be updated...
Thanks!
I took an extended break from the game and have not been able to get back on for quite some time, so the information currently there is from after U6.
However, I hope to return to the game in the next week or so. Once I do, I will work on updating the OP to include any changes that have occurred since May. I honestly am not sure how much will change as I have not gotten a chance to look at the changes in-depth, but at the very least I'll need to scale up the DPS numbers and add any new gambits we got.
Well, after much delaying on my end, I finally got around to updating this guide to RoR standards. I didn't include anything on mounted combat (maybe one day....), but all the damage numbers have been changed to reflect how I now sit at level 85, the new gambits have been added, and any other changes that occurred between April and now have been included (most notably a number of bug fixes). I also made some cosmetic changes regarding the layout, to make it look a little nicer.
As always, I'm by no means perfect, and I did this all in one long sitting, so it is very likely that there are a few typos/errors in my work. If you notice something that's wrong or feels like it could be off, please don't hesitate to bring it to my attention and I will fix it promptly.
The range of those gambits is 25m (or afaik even more with proper legacy - can't check it now, btw the possibility of lengthening the range would be worth mentioning), and 10m is the radius from the initial target.
That's quite important, as Call to Battle, giving as much raw threat as EoB is a great tool to grab mobs from a longer range, especially in chaotic situations that quite often happen in PUG skirm raids.
The range of those gambits is 25m (or afaik even more with proper legacy - can't check it now, btw the possibility of lengthening the range would be worth mentioning), and 10m is the radius from the initial target.
That's quite important, as Call to Battle, giving as much raw threat as EoB is a great tool to grab mobs from a longer range, especially in chaotic situations that quite often happen in PUG skirm raids.
You're totally right, not sure how I overlooked that. Can you tell I haven't done a whole lot of tanking since the expansion launched? It's fixed now, should display what the two new gambits do in each stance properly. Thanks for pointing that out.
As for legacy extension, I've thought about including that. I originally didn't because it would add a ton of information to an already information-packed guide (not to mention creating a lot more work on my end). I might add trait and legacy information (their effects on individual gambits only) in the future though. I will definitely consider doing it, time permitting. Thanks for the feedback!
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). Just wanted to point that out.
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Originally Posted by luapremylc
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Hope it saves someone some work... 
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