Thread: End game raid tanking help

Greetings. I've been reading the previous tanking threads in this forum and can tell by many accounts that we are quite capable of tanking the wings in the ToO raid, and I'm very impressed by those who have done so. Due to the lack of guards and their raid availability in my kin it's down to the few champs we have to step up and take over. I have done each wing several time from my most comfortable role of dps so I'm not new to the raids or to the champ class as it is really the only class I've played since 2007. In saying that I've tanked Foundry and the 3 mans before but not something of ToO scale and it is to me quite daunting a prospect considering I take loads of damage in comparison to guards.
My questions are then:

1) bling. What stats should i be focusing on? Opinions seem to differ. Vit, moral, mitagations, all? What are the sucsessful champ tanks using for jewelry to achieve a proper balance? What numbers for mitagations (tactical and physical) should I be trying to get to?

2) virtues. What is our ideal virtue setup for tanking? Charity, compassion, and innocence seem to look good for the role but again lacking the exp needed I'm not sure.

3) LI legacies. I've begun to build up a 2nd age 1h axe and rune for this purpose and curious to know what you all are using for legacies here. Glory icpr, evade rating, bracing attack heal ect seem like no brainers but is rising ire and dire need skill cooldowns something imperative? What do u think with your exp is effective.

4) class traits. What's the fundamentals for the blue line in these long raid? Is hedge (tight grip) and rising ire (at the ready) ones I should be slotting? Or are they ok without the trait? Bladewall and wild attack I assume will be my best friend for holding agro which is what I seem to always struggle with. Any info on these I would appreciate as well.

Now I ain't expecting to be as effective as a guard or warden out there, and you all know the amount of nay Sayers in the lotro community on champs tanking raids like this, but I beileve knowing this class and by what you all have posted before that we as a class are more then capable of this, and I'd like to with my almost 5 years on and off exp with our great class to be among you all that will stand up and take on this role when it is needed. After all we are Champions.


"And so you touch this limit, something happens and you suddenly can go a little bit further. With your mind power, your determination, your instinct, and the experience as well, you can fly very high."
Ayrton Senna


Thanks to all who contribute!!!

i offten help out by taking a mops with some blue trait slotted. but from your questions i assume you are asking how to be a main tank in ToO.

i have done this once because of a lack of a second guardian on tier 1. Here is what i used :

1)i switch to 3 pieces of the ToO tanker set and 2 from the Moors( they give nice mitagation ). Also switched some jewellry to get bronze banded hawk talon and earring of the defiant in for moral( the new limlight bubble set would be better than this now ) and grengelon and sarchol for the mitagation.

2)for virtues its compasion+innocence for the trash and fidelty+tollerance for the boss.

3)for legacys is have and old 65 first age stone for this. Has adamant duracion, glory icpr,glory parry/evade,glory pip interval and bracing attack heal on it. for weapon i use the dps one-hand sword i have, which already has the sudden defence cooldown.

4) for class traits i use 5 blues (tights grip,call of the wild, brace against defeat,vigour of the campion and reprisal) and 2 yellows ( Ardent rage and stalward blade ). main fervour builders will indeed be blade wall and wild attack with this.

in total this got me up to about 14.5k moral buffed up and around 11-12k on phisical and tactical mit and my phisical mastry rating cut in half.

this way i was able to prober tank the trash that was needed ( in all the wings) and one of the 2 gaints in the fire and frost wing. for lighting aggro switch i had to slot the ebbing/rising ire trait and it still needed some time before i could aggro swtich it with our guardian.

hope it helps ^^

That is a stack of questions, enough for a tutorial writeup. I won't attempt to write toward any sort of general ToO tanking setup... customizing your approach for each tanking situation seems a productive exercise.

I have only main-tanked Shadow T2 Challenge, we have guards and a warden for the other wings. Bukot is chank-friendly because we can pump out substantially more dps than the alternatives and his bpe debuff doesn't affect our tanking as much. This advice might not be as good for other wings.

For Bukot, I look for as much dps as I can manage while surviving his attacks. My base setup, completely unbuffed, has 13.3k morale, 12k physmast, and 4.4k crit. Physmit is 11.6k, tactmit is 9.8k, and inc healing is 6.8k. The base stats aren't the story though, it's all about the strat.

The single most important piece for Bukot chanking is an RK healer. We have done the fight with both a mini and an rk healing me and the difference is huge. The RK bubble doesn't suffer the 75% incoming heal penalty from Bukot's debuff.

It's not just the art of bubbling as healing, it's a practical choice. The 1-use 5.2k True Heroics bubble and the new 1-use 2.7k Anduin Marty's bubble are good backups for an emergency, but I don't usually need them in those 300seconds. The 3.5k Sudden Defence bubble and the RK 3.2k bubble are each on 1-minute cd, which is more than enough to get through the 45s debuff duration to another full-healing window.

The second most important piece for Bukot chanking is an aggro strat. Everyone is pounding hard from go and holding aggro through to 1.35M morale is critical. After that, aggro is cake because the competition is on adds for a while. I get initial aggro with a wild, then pull him back to the throne, relying on reprisal and hard hits, I rising ire off an rk as soon as Bukot casts his first debuff and challenge just after he drops the first puddle and I have to move him. The burg(s) provoke and, if necessary HIPS-off if they get aggro. Hold aggro until the first adds and you should be golden: you get a good 20s of alone-time to build aggro after that.

I use:

armor:
5-piece Othrod + Tourney Winner's Chestplate. (+5 invincible duration for the 5-set bonus is worth it)
Wyrmscale Protector's Cloak

jewelry:
3-piece Empowered Anduin Martyr's (earring, ring, pocket)
BJ Stud of the Brute, Horseman's Golden Necklace,
Splendid Resolute Green Garnet Bracelet, Bracelet of the Unbent Knee, Trenardhrin
Tirithathol, Sergeant-at-Arms Bow of Adlan

tanking rune (lvl 65 1st age):
2080 inc healing, enduring force (tact mit+physmast) scroll
strike line power, blade line power, swift strike power, ardor/glory pip, ardor/glory power, rend pulses
true setting continuance, emerald of the verdant glen, profound rune of action, symbol of battle.

swap rune (lvl 75 2nd age):
adamant/invincible duration, bracing attack heal, hedge armor, fight on duration, stun duration, rend pulses.
platinum setting of potency, true gem of the encircling seas, profound rune of action, symbol of battle.

virtues:
zeal, valour, discipline, innocence, compassion (physmit + morale + might)

traits:
5b,1y,1r
invincible, fight on!, controlled burn
reprisal, tight grip, call of the wild, aggressive exchange, braced against defeat
improved rend, flurry of blows

There is room here to improve, but the above setup has worked well for me for Bukot. I wouldn't use it to tank other bosses, though: a lot of this is tailored to chanking this boss. It lets me parse at 870dps for the 300 seconds or so I tank Bukot without stressing my Rk healer too much.

[QUOTE=Miroz;6068711]snip[QUOTE]


Nice you got also the Tanking stuff like the set and cloak i dont raid that much i can have those 2 sets quick (DPS and Tank)

One question do you tank in Fervour ? Because i see you trait Flurry of blows ?

One question do you tank in Fervour ? Because i see you trait Flurry of blows ?

No, I tank Bukot in Glory. At 600k Bukot morale I pop controlled burn and switch to fervor for the rest of the fight, but the first 1M morale is Glory. So 1st 4 minutes Glory and last minute Fervor.

Bukot must die in 300 seconds for the challenge. A champ tank is preferred for the bubbles but mainly because I can do a lot more dps to Bukot than a guard or warden.

I trait 5 blue, leaving 2 traits free and I pick rend and flurry of blows for the dps. In glory you have to hit flurry manually so the extra 10s duration and -5% attack duration helps quite a bit. I thought about controlled fury instead but I *think* flurry of blows gives more dps.

If that's wrong and I could get more dps bang for the buck another way, I would appreciate the assist.

Originally Posted by Miroz

If that's wrong and I could get more dps bang for the buck another way, I would appreciate the assist.

Saw this thread and as i enjoy champ tanking a lot as well (never been to shadow t2 though) i was thinking that traiting ferocious strikes would help in both aggro management as they are good threat machines and also as a dps source, negative is that they consume lots of fervour needed to operate invincible and bubble there.

is it viable to tank him fully in fervor with a dps setup (i suppose it cmoes down to wether revealing mark is reduced by the reduction or not)? And how hard does he hit on t2 compared to t1?

I can't go into details as my champ is only of a low level, but when we go T2 FnF a champion tanks the 2nd giant, we give him about as much time as a guard and he just tanks it through dps. Only swaps a few jewels for some more morale.

No retraiting or different weapons involved, think he even continues to use fervour.

Originally Posted by CuruornEU

I can't go into details as my champ is only of a low level, but when we go T2 FnF a champion tanks the 2nd giant, we give him about as much time as a guard and he just tanks it through dps. Only swaps a few jewels for some more morale.

No retraiting or different weapons involved, think he even continues to use fervour.

It's pretty common to have one Giant in Fire and Frost be tanked by a Champ, since the Giant doesn't hit very hard and you'll want to burn him down as fast as possible. Running Fervour and a full DPS build isn't an issue, you may even use Continuous Blood Rage.

Other Bosses in Orthanc are a different story though. Iorweth and Klabak hit very hard for example, but I can imagine that even they can be tanked by a Champ in Glory spec and with proper tank gear (e.g. I have around 17.5k morale, capped mitigations and halfway decent parry/evade ratings with my tank build when buffed) and I don't even have all the bling I would like to have for tanking. The main weakness of a Champ Tank is crit defence, so if the dices roll the wrong way and the boss goes crit lucky, there's nothing you can do about it.

I don't know if a champ would be very good at tanking Kalbak. Reprisal won't proc off the lightning damage, the static explosion can crit for a whole lot so a big morale pool helps (guards/wardens get a bigger pool by default), and our avoidances are likely going to be lower than either a guard or warden, meaning the static will build up much faster, making it more stressful for everyone.

Leave the tanking to the guardians and Wardens. A small tank this dude here or there is no problem, but main tanking anything shouldn't be a champions job. If Turbine really intended on champions being a serious tank/off tank class, they would have given us 5 morale/vit.

I'm not reprimanding champions who do tank however, just to clear that up. Good for you and more power to you, but if you seriously want to tank, roll a guard or warden. You will tank 10x better, have nearly 2x the morale, and better overall mitigations/bpe.

Originally Posted by Gylve

I don't know if a champ would be very good at tanking Kalbak. Reprisal won't proc off the lightning damage, the static explosion can crit for a whole lot so a big morale pool helps (guards/wardens get a bigger pool by default), and our avoidances are likely going to be lower than either a guard or warden, meaning the static will build up much faster, making it more stressful for everyone.

I didn't say that a Champ would be the best option, I'd take a Guard or a Warden over a Champion every day. But I do think that it is entirely possible for a Champ to main tank in Orthanc T2. Fire and Frost T2, Bukot T2 and Srauman T1 (haven't tried T2) are no problem. I also tanked Kalbak with the two tank strategy (the other tank was a guard) when I had much worse tank gear than I have now at my disposal. Survivability wasn't an issue, just the aggro swap with the Guard was a bit tricky. With my current gear I do believe that I could actually solo tank him, though this does mean more stress on the healers. I guess Iorweth would also be possible. For all of this you would ouf course need a very good Champ Tank with dedicated Tank gear and also a group that plays on top of their game. Definitely not advisable for the average Champ tank or a PUG.

Originally Posted by aad0italian

Leave the tanking to the guardians and Wardens. A small tank this dude here or there is no problem, but main tanking anything shouldn't be a champions job. If Turbine really intended on champions being a serious tank/off tank class, they would have given us 5 morale/vit.

Then you must have missed the developer's diary for the Champ class. Orion said that he wanted to make the Champ a viable main tank in Glory spec and as far as I can tell, he did a very good job with that. Of course, Wardens and Guardians are still better than Champions, but that's how it's supposed to be, it's their primary role. Still we are very capable of being the main tank in any kind of content.

Originally Posted by aad0italian

I'm not reprimanding champions who do tank however, just to clear that up. Good for you and more power to you, but if you seriously want to tank, roll a guard or warden.

At first, no, I don't want to tank and am always glad if a Guardian or Warden shows up for the duty, as I see myself as a DPSer in the first place. But in the absence of a Warden or a Guardian I am ready to fill the place - and tanking does indeed make fun on a Champ and adds more versatility to the class.

Originally Posted by aad0italian

You will tank 10x better, have nearly 2x the morale, and better overall mitigations/bpe.

That's kind of over-exeggerated. Yes, Wardens and Guardians are better Tanks, but not anywhere near those 10x. They also don't have anywhere near twice the morale of a properly kitted out Champ tank. Currently I sit a around 18k morale with my Tank build and I can still up that a bit, if I acquire the right gear for this (I'm only rolling on tank equip in raids/skirmishes, if no dedicated tank class needs that item in that run). Top notch tank may have around 23k morale, that' not even 1.5x the morale. Just let me know, if you ever see a Gaurdian/Warden with 36k morale. As for the mitigations, that's also not the true story. Champs can cap out mitigations at 70% just as a Guardian, while Wardens can only reach 50% due to their medium armor. b/p/e is obviously worse, but we got plenty of tools to make up for this: 20 seconds of Invincible every minute, 15 seconds Sudden Defence Bubble every 40-45 seconds, Dire Need every two minutes and True Heroics Bubble every 5 minutes. Survivability is pretty good. Threat may be an issue in the beginning of the fight, but that's not much of a problem with a disciplined group. The longer the fight, the better your lock on the threat (Rising Ire ftw).

Originally Posted by Vodomir

Then you must have missed the developer's diary for the Champ class. Orion said that he wanted to make the Champ a viable main tank in Glory spec and as far as I can tell, he did a very good job with that. Of course, Wardens and Guardians are still better than Champions, but that's how it's supposed to be, it's their primary role. Still we are very capable of being the main tank in any kind of content.



At first, no, I don't want to tank and am always glad if a Guardian or Warden shows up for the duty, as I see myself as a DPSer in the first place. But in the absence of a Warden or a Guardian I am ready to fill the place - and tanking does indeed make fun on a Champ and adds more versatility to the class.



That's kind of over-exeggerated. Yes, Wardens and Guardians are better Tanks, but not anywhere near those 10x. They also don't have anywhere near twice the morale of a properly kitted out Champ tank. Currently I sit a around 18k morale with my Tank build and I can still up that a bit, if I acquire the right gear for this (I'm only rolling on tank equip in raids/skirmishes, if no dedicated tank class needs that item in that run). Top notch tank may have around 23k morale, that' not even 1.5x the morale. Just let me know, if you ever see a Gaurdian/Warden with 36k morale. As for the mitigations, that's also not the true story. Champs can cap out mitigations at 70% just as a Guardian, while Wardens can only reach 50% due to their medium armor. b/p/e is obviously worse, but we got plenty of tools to make up for this: 20 seconds of Invincible every minute, 15 seconds Sudden Defence Bubble every 40-45 seconds, Dire Need every two minutes and True Heroics Bubble every 5 minutes. Survivability is pretty good. Threat may be an issue in the beginning of the fight, but that's not much of a problem with a disciplined group. The longer the fight, the better your lock on the threat (Rising Ire ftw).

Sounds like you definitely need a guardian.

Originally Posted by Vodomir

......... Currently I sit a around 18k morale with my Tank build and I can still up that a bit, if I acquire the right gear for this (I'm only rolling on tank equip in raids/skirmishes,.....(Rising Ire ftw).

Vod... could you give me a list of what you equip when you're asked to play tank/off-tank? I'm trying to build up a collection of tank gear. Thanks.

Originally Posted by aad0italian

Sounds like you definitely need a guardian.

To see that he doesn't even come close to 36k Morale, is also capped at 70% mitigations and gets into trouble holding aggro when DDs go all out? (only solution is to Challenge in the first seconds, engage shortly before Challenge wears off and then have the Champs ebb onto you a while later, and repeating the process a while later, once Challenge and Engage are off CD; one missed Challenge and/or Engange and this approach goes wrong)

As I already said, Guardians/Wardens are for sure better Tanks than Championsm but nowhere close to your figures.

Originally Posted by Nuth_KM

Vod... could you give me a list of what you equip when you're asked to play tank/off-tank? I'm trying to build up a collection of tank gear. Thanks.

I'll write a list tomorrow, cause it's kind of late here and I'm too lazy to log in right now.

Originally Posted by Vodomir

I'll write a list tomorrow, cause it's kind of late here and I'm too lazy to log in right now.

vielen dank!

Originally Posted by Nuth_KM

vielen dank!

Sorry for being one day too late, but here's the list of my tank equipment:

Armor:

Helm of the Othrod: +67 Might, +121 Vitality, +183 Morale, +141 Parry Rating
Pauldrons of the Othrod: +54 Might, +121 Vitality, +563 Incoming Healing, +352 Evade Rating
Gauntlets of the Othrod: +81 Might, +101 Vitality, +146 Morale, +854 Finesse Rating
Leggings of the Othrod: +67 Agility, +101 Vitality, +183 Morale, +352 Evade Rating
Boots of the Othrod: +67 Ahility, +101 Vitality, +183 Morale, +713 Physical Mitigation

Set Bonus (for wearing 5 pieces of the Othrod set): +68 Vitality, +183 Morale, +704 Incoming Healing, +5s Adamant/Invincible Duration, Blade-Wall increases Parry Rating

Unassailable Chestguard: +122 Vitality, +323 Morale, +328 Parry Rating
Sarchol: +337 Morale, +1020 Finesse Rating, +1513 Physical Mitigation, +1513 Tactical Mitigation


Bling:

2x Earring of the Defiant: +31 Might, +122 Vitality, +323 Morale
1x Exquisite Great River Necklace of Morale: +63 Vitality, +236 Morale, +1075 Incoming Healing, +681 Physical Mitigation, +681 Tactical Mitigation (also have Haul-Tagur for even more Tac. Mit)
1x Bracelet of the Unbent Knee: +61 Might, +122 Vitality, +162 Morale
1x Bracelet of Strength Remembered: +92 Vitality, +323 Morale, +656 Block Rating
1x Ring of the Resolute Defender: +61 Vitality, +61 Might, +398 Finesse Rating, +328 Parry Rating, +194 Morale, +196,8 Resistance Rating
1x Thoughtful Band: +29 Might, +57 Vitality, +295 Morale, +948 Finesse Rating
1x Golden Spear-Head: +1044 Resistance Rating, +1045 Physical Mitigation, +116 Evade Rating, +1045 Tactical Mitigation


Weapons:

1H Champion's Sword of the Second Age (lvl 75)

+Wild Attack Damage
+Critical Damage Multiplier (maybe I'll remove this for straight Might legacy)
+Area of Effect Damage
-Battle Frenzy Cooldown
-Sudden Defence Cooldown
+Vitality

True Setting of Continuance: +250 Morale, +126 ICPR, +1300 Incoming Healing
Great River Gem of Hope: +292 Critical Defence, +283 Morale, +283 Power
True Rune of the Two Trees: +180 Morale, +160 Power, +96 ICMR
Device of Vitality: +30 Vitality

Bregronn (1H club from Shadow T2): +101 Vitality, +57 ICPR, +183 Morale, +352 Parry Rating

Cumaeth (Bow): +504 Critical Rating, +1135 Physical Mitigation, -10% All Skill Inductions


Rune:

Champion's Rune of the Second Age (lvl 75)

-Dire Need Cooldown
+Bracing Attack Heal
+Ardour/Glory Parry and Evade
+(Glory) Hedge Armour Rating Mod
+Ardour/Glory in-combat Power Regen
+Adamant/Invincible Duration

True Setting of Continuance: +250 Morale, +126 ICPR, +1300 Incoming Healing
Great River Gem of Hope: +292 Critical Defence, +283 Morale, +283 Power
True Rune of the Two Trees: +180 Morale, +160 Power, +96 ICMR
Device of Vitality: +30 Vitality

Title - Enduring Triumph: +608 Tactical Mitigation, +300 Evade Rating


I also got a host of other bling to adjust my build for lets say less morale in favour of more might. Still have some things on my "to get" liste, e.g. the club from Shadow T2CM, the tank cloak from Orthanc T2 (don't remember the name), maybe the Anduin Tank Set, the crafted Great River Pocket Item, 2x Ring of Lasting Victory

Originally Posted by Vodomir

Sorry for being one day too late, but here's the list of my tank equipment:

...

Nice build, thanks for sharing +rep ;-)

Thank you Vod!!!

definitely +rep for helping all us aspiring "off-tanks"

Since it's pretty much impossible to have all of your bases covered when it comes to a tanking build, there's room for a lot of different approaches. Mine differs somewhat from Vod's in that I don't have as much stacked morale but instead favor a little more avoidances and incoming healing.

Here's my build, with notes that apply to pieces I'd like to upgrade/swap out:

Armor:

Helm of the Othrod: +67 Might, +121 Vitality, +183 Morale, +141 Parry Rating
Gauntlets of the Othrod: +81 Might, +101 Vitality, +146 Morale, +854 Finesse Rating
Leggings of the Othrod: +67 Agility, +101 Vitality, +183 Morale, +352 Evade Rating
Boots of the Othrod: +67 Agility, +101 Vitality, +183 Morale, +713 Physical Mitigation

Set Bonus (for wearing 4 pieces of the Othrod set): +68 Vitality, +183 Morale, +704 Incoming Healing, Blade-Wall increases Parry Rating (900 parry available to keep up permanently)

Huranc: +95 Vitality, +32 Might, +336 Evade Rating, +1344 Incoming Healing Rating
Helm of Lost Hordes: +92 Vitality, +996 Finesse, +1312 Incoming Healing Rating, +328 Parry Rating
Wyrmscale Blademaster's Cloak: +122 Might, +162 Morale, +142 Maximum Power, +656 Critical Rating, 10% chance to receive ~49 ICPR on damage (can stack twice)*

*I'd like to replace this with Sarchol for the increased morale, mits and finesse, which is lacking in my tanking setup for sure. That said, this is actually pretty nice as it makes up for missing DPS stats in my tanking build while not being totally devoid of tank-friendly elements, either.

Bling:

1x Earring of the Defiant: +31 Might, +122 Vitality, +323 Morale
1x Empowered Anduin Martyr's Earring: +63 Might, +32 Agility, +126 Vitality
1x Horseman's Golden Necklace: +87 Vitality, +302 Morale, +632 Incoming Healing, +316 Evade Rating (also have Haul-Tagur for more Tac. Mit)*
1x Easterling's War Bracelet: +122 Might, +61 Agility, +328 Critical Rating*
1x Egnïon-breichled: +63 Might, +337 Morale, +296 Maximum Power
1x Ring of the Resolute Defender: +61 Vitality, +61 Might, +398 Finesse Rating, +328 Parry Rating, +194 Morale, +196,8 Resistance Rating
1x Empowered Anduin Martyr's Ring: +63 Might, +126 Vitality, +336 Evade Rating
1x Empowered Anduin Martyr's Bauble: +63 Might, +95 Vitality, +169 Morale, +504 Resistance Rating

Set bonuses for using Martyr set: +62 Vitality, 2,754 morale bubble lasting 20sec that heals for 2,067 morale if removed in combat, 5 min cooldown

*Will replace this with the Great River neck Vod has. Less morale and I'll miss the evade, but more inc healing and mits are too good to pass up.


Weapons:

1H Champion's Sword of the Second Age (lvl 75)

+Wild Attack Damage
+Critical Damage Multiplier
+Area of Effect Damage
+Remorseless strikes damage (would replace this with vitality legacy)
-Sudden Defence Cooldown
-Battle Frenzy Cooldown

Setting: +260 crit, 520 phys/tact mastery, 111 ICPR
Gem of Hope: +260 Critical Defence, +250 Morale, +250 Power (forget what tier this one is)
Rune of Wisdom: -2.5% Attack Duration, 520 Evade, 22 will
Device of Battle: +20 Might, 540 Phys Mastery, 540 Crit Rating

Title: Beleriand damage, +300 Phys Mastery (would change to Beleriand damage, evade rating)

Note: this is currently my main 1H 2A weapon that I use for both DPS and tanking. When I get a 1A for DPS, I'll convert this to a tanking-centric weapon by replacing the Remorseless legacy with a Vitality one, dumping more points in SD CD, replacing the setting with the 1300 inc healing/250 morale/111 ICPR one Vod has, and replacing the rune with the agi/evade/partial mitigation one. I'd probably leave the crafted relic as that's a huge chunk of stats that's hard to make up elsewhere (unlike the 30 vit).

Rock Smasher (Stangard Barter): +61 Vitality, +61 Might, +328 Parry Rating

Cumaeth (Bow): +504 Critical Rating, +1135 Physical Mitigation, -10% All Skill Inductions


Rune:

Champion's Rune of the Second Age (lvl 75)

-AoE Power Cost
+Bracing Attack Heal
+Ardour/Glory Parry and Evade
+(Glory) Hedge Armour Rating Mod
+Ardour/Glory in-combat Power Regen
+Adamant/Invincible Duration

True Setting of Continuance: +250 Morale, +126 ICPR, +1300 Incoming Healing
Great River Gem of Hope: +292 Critical Defence, +283 Morale, +283 Power
Rune: Agi/Evade/+10% partial parry/evade mitigation
Device of Accuracy: +20 Agility, 540 phys mastery, 540 crit

Title - Enduring Triumph: +608 Tactical Mitigation, +300 Evade Rating

Originally Posted by Gylve

Since it's pretty much impossible to have all of your bases covered when it comes to a tanking build, there's room for a lot of different approaches. Mine differs somewhat from Vod's in that I don't have as much stacked morale but instead favor a little more avoidances and incoming healing.

Quoted for truth. That's why I have lots of different swap jewellery (and also armour like Huranc) in my bank, so I can adjust to the content that I am going to tank. +rep

Thanks (and +rep) to both of you for taking the time to look up all your gear + stats!

Armour
Helm - Helm of the Othrod
Shoulders - Pauldrons of the Resilient Warrior (PvP)
Chest - Breastplate of the Othrod
Gloves - Gauntlets of the Othrod
Legs - Leggins of the Othrod
Boots - Sabatons of the Resilient Warrior (PvP)
Cloak - Sarchol

I have this set up for the morale/vit of the Othrod pieces and the 2k tact miti from the PvP pieces. The cloak has really nice morale and tact/phys mitis but I think there's a slightly better version from Orthanc.

Jewels:
Earrings - Earring of the Defiant x 2
Bracelets - Bracelet of the Unbent Knee x 2
Rings - Ring of Lasting Victory x 2
Necklace - Haul-tagur
Pocket - Lieutenant's Mark

This would be my prefered set up, with the huge morale/vit on the earrings, bracelets and rings. The neck is for incoming healing and tact miti and the pocket is for phys and tact miti.

Weapons
Main hand - One hander legacies
- Relentless
- Wild attack
- AOE
- Crit
- Sudden defence cooldown
- Vitality/whatever

Rune - Legacies
- Ardour/Glory ICPR
- Adamant/Invincible Duration
- Bracing Attack Heal
- (Glory) Hedge Armour rating mod
- Dire Need Cooldown
- Vitality/whatever

Off hand - Polished Great River Sword of Battle

Relics - Both LIs
- True Setting of Continuance (250 morale, 126 in-combat power regen, 1300 incoming healing)
- Westfold Gem of Hope (280 crit def, 263 morale, 243 power)
- Mysterious Rune of Mending (1088 incoming healing, 544 block)
- Device of Battle (20 might, 540 crit, 540 phys mast)

Good for morale and incoming healing (which is the only reason to slot the block runes, since block is worthless). The crit def on the gem is also very important for champs.

Traits
Virtues - Charity, Compassion, Innocence, Valour, Zeal
Class Traits - Ardent Rage (Y), Aggressive Exchange (B), At the Ready (B), Braced Against Defeat (B), Call of the Wild (B), Reprisal (B), Tight Grip (B)

With these I have about 13k morale, 8k incoming healing, 3k parry, 1.5k evade, 3k crit, 10k phys mast, 7.5k resists, 1.5k crit def (sadly), 13k phys miti and 14.5k tact miti.

As you can tell, I don't put a lot of stock into avoidances. I tank mainly with my face, which makes Lightning very hard because of the explosions. I try to get higher morale and mitis to compensate, since I can't get higher crit def.

Originally Posted by Dorothir

Armour
Helm - Helm of the Othrod
Shoulders - Pauldrons of the Resilient Warrior (PvP)
Chest - Breastplate of the Othrod
Gloves - Gauntlets of the Othrod
Legs - Leggins of the Othrod
Boots - Sabatons of the Resilient Warrior (PvP)
Cloak - Sarchol

I have this set up for the morale/vit of the Othrod pieces and the 2k tact miti from the PvP pieces. The cloak has really nice morale and tact/phys mitis but I think there's a slightly better version from Orthanc.

Jewels:
Earrings - Earring of the Defiant x 2
Bracelets - Bracelet of the Unbent Knee x 2
Rings - Ring of Lasting Victory x 2
Necklace - Haul-tagur
Pocket - Lieutenant's Mark

This would be my prefered set up, with the huge morale/vit on the earrings, bracelets and rings. The neck is for incoming healing and tact miti and the pocket is for phys and tact miti.

Weapons
Main hand - One hander legacies
- Relentless
- Wild attack
- AOE
- Crit
- Sudden defence cooldown
- Vitality/whatever

Rune - Legacies
- Ardour/Glory ICPR
- Adamant/Invincible Duration
- Bracing Attack Heal
- (Glory) Hedge Armour rating mod
- Dire Need Cooldown
- Vitality/whatever

Off hand - Polished Great River Sword of Battle

Relics - Both LIs
- True Setting of Continuance (250 morale, 126 in-combat power regen, 1300 incoming healing)
- Westfold Gem of Hope (280 crit def, 263 morale, 243 power)
- Mysterious Rune of Mending (1088 incoming healing, 544 block)
- Device of Battle (20 might, 540 crit, 540 phys mast)

Good for morale and incoming healing (which is the only reason to slot the block runes, since block is worthless). The crit def on the gem is also very important for champs.

Traits
Virtues - Charity, Compassion, Innocence, Valour, Zeal
Class Traits - Ardent Rage (Y), Aggressive Exchange (B), At the Ready (B), Braced Against Defeat (B), Call of the Wild (B), Reprisal (B), Tight Grip (B)

With these I have about 13k morale, 8k incoming healing, 3k parry, 1.5k evade, 3k crit, 10k phys mast, 7.5k resists, 1.5k crit def (sadly), 13k phys miti and 14.5k tact miti.

As you can tell, I don't put a lot of stock into avoidances. I tank mainly with my face, which makes Lightning very hard because of the explosions. I try to get higher morale and mitis to compensate, since I can't get higher crit def.

Your set up is nice only problem with such low physical mastery you will not be able to make Hm of shadow for exemple as tanking the boss, you need a solid agroo and well dev forgot us about it. You need like 15 sec to have a secure agroo or have dpsers that hold a lot. Many asked about improving agroo of champ but seems is not wanted. Beside that your champ set up is very viable and you might be tanking everything (who know maybe update 7 will give surprise champ treath will be improved)

Originally Posted by Fabroy

Your set up is nice only problem with such low physical mastery you will not be able to make Hm of shadow for exemple as tanking the boss, you need a solid agroo and well dev forgot us about it. You need like 15 sec to have a secure agroo or have dpsers that hold a lot. Many asked about improving agroo of champ but seems is not wanted. Beside that your champ set up is very viable and you might be tanking everything (who know maybe update 7 will give surprise champ treath will be improved)

Aggro has never really been a problem for me. I intentionally have low avoidances so I can have more aggro generation from Glorious Exchange. Adding to that I have Rising Ire on a pretty low cd, I never seem to find anyone has the ability to overaggro (unless it's a guard using their superior aggro generation skills or a hunter who wants to stand the max DPS range they can). I never use DPS as my aggro builder, that is last in a very long list of aggro building methods for me.

The only real problem I have is with crits. Without the same avoidances as a guard or the crit defence from a shield, I get hit with a lot more crits than a guard does. Would be nice to have some way for champs to increase critical defence more than is currently possible.

Originally Posted by Dorothir

Aggro has never really been a problem for me. I intentionally have low avoidances so I can have more aggro generation from Glorious Exchange. Adding to that I have Rising Ire on a pretty low cd, I never seem to find anyone has the ability to overaggro (unless it's a guard using their superior aggro generation skills or a hunter who wants to stand the max DPS range they can). I never use DPS as my aggro builder, that is last in a very long list of aggro building methods for me.

The only real problem I have is with crits. Without the same avoidances as a guard or the crit defence from a shield, I get hit with a lot more crits than a guard does. Would be nice to have some way for champs to increase critical defence more than is currently possible.

in which server are you? i could introduce you my alliance dpsers

Originally Posted by Fabroy

Your set up is nice only problem with such low physical mastery you will not be able to make Hm of shadow for exemple as tanking the boss, you need a solid agroo and well dev forgot us about it. You need like 15 sec to have a secure agroo or have dpsers that hold a lot. Many asked about improving agroo of champ but seems is not wanted. Beside that your champ set up is very viable and you might be tanking everything (who know maybe update 7 will give surprise champ treath will be improved)

2 words that will change your chanking life forever...

rising ire

....and at the ready

ok 6 words.

Originally Posted by Fabroy

in which server are you? i could introduce you my alliance dpsers

Snowbourn.

A good DPSer is no threat to a champ tank, since the DPSer should know what they're doing. First few seconds, they let me build up a bit. I then use Champion's Challenge, to make sure I've got him while they do some damage (providing a burg hasn't just stunned the boss). When it gets to the end, I hit Rising Ire on the biggest DPS monster. Champs will be using Ebbing Ire on me at the same time. I rotate through the DPSers and if I suddenly lose it I pop True Heroics (has aggro on it) and/or Champion's challenge. As long as I keep getting hit and keep rotating my Rising Ire, I'm fine.

yeah champs can probably hold threat as well or better than a guardian if they're doing it right. It's just the first 30 seconds of a fight that become difficult... And also if anyone's standing outside of 15m.

How do you all feel about the Draigloch Vitality cloak? My build atm isnt short on mitigations as im nearing cap now and I havent quite finished all the stuff im looking for. Think Draig vit cloak is a peice that you would use?

Also if your going to use the pvp suit as I do, you might as well get the third peice because it gives ya -10% inc dmg for 10 seconds of every 40 seconds by using battle frenzy. If you choose the gloves from pvp suit you acctually get 704 inc heals from the gloves which is the same as the orthod 4 suit bonus.

The Draigoch cloak has block rating on it. I absolutely hate equipping anything with block rating on it as a champ as it's a 100% wasted stat. Sarchol is a much better tanking-stat cloak option for champs. The T2 Shadow one is even better (no phys mit but we don't need it...I can easily hit 71% common mit without Sarchol, the Great River neck or any phys mit virtues as long as I keep legacied Hedge up).

Aye thats the issue I have with Draig cloak as well but for straight up morale gain i mean draig cloaks 122 more vit then sarchol and if mits are capped already I don't see how ya can do better.

Personally, I think people are too negative about champ PE (forget the B).

I run at max physical mit, 15500 tac mit, 4700 Parry and 7000 Evade before buffs. Given that champ crit defence is almost non-existent (and trying to increase it with relics is futile) I'd rather avoid possible crits rather than field them with my face.

Survivability on a champ tank is right up there with Guards/Wardens if played right but the start-of-the-fight agro needs tweaking.
If they added an AOE effect to the challenge and increased the agro on it to around 10k damage equivalent, you could then get settled in with ebbing even with a group that is not particularly bright.

As it stands at the moment, I think Champ Tanks are not particularly popular because they lose agro at the start of fights to hunters and burgs who then get destroyed. If they made it possible (albeit difficult) to keep the agro at the start of a fight through hunter dps, chanks might be more viable.

Originally Posted by The_Healer

Personally, I think people are too negative about champ PE (forget the B).

I run at max physical mit, 15500 tac mit, 4700 Parry and 7000 Evade before buffs. Given that champ crit defence is almost non-existent (and trying to increase it with relics is futile) I'd rather avoid possible crits rather than field them with my face.

Survivability on a champ tank is right up there with Guards/Wardens if played right but the start-of-the-fight agro needs tweaking.
If they added an AOE effect to the challenge and increased the agro on it to around 10k damage equivalent, you could then get settled in with ebbing even with a group that is not particularly bright.

As it stands at the moment, I think Champ Tanks are not particularly popular because they lose agro at the start of fights to hunters and burgs who then get destroyed. If they made it possible (albeit difficult) to keep the agro at the start of a fight through hunter dps, chanks might be more viable.

agréed. Guess if ebbing was group leach agroo instead single player leach and maybe get some agroo % back in glory could help solve it.

Originally Posted by The_Healer

Personally, I think people are too negative about champ PE (forget the B).

I run at max physical mit, 15500 tac mit, 4700 Parry and 7000 Evade before buffs. Given that champ crit defence is almost non-existent (and trying to increase it with relics is futile) I'd rather avoid possible crits rather than field them with my face.

Survivability on a champ tank is right up there with Guards/Wardens if played right but the start-of-the-fight agro needs tweaking.
If they added an AOE effect to the challenge and increased the agro on it to around 10k damage equivalent, you could then get settled in with ebbing even with a group that is not particularly bright.

As it stands at the moment, I think Champ Tanks are not particularly popular because they lose agro at the start of fights to hunters and burgs who then get destroyed. If they made it possible (albeit difficult) to keep the agro at the start of a fight through hunter dps, chanks might be more viable.

I've yet to lose aggro against any hunter at the beginning of a fight, unless a burg has stunned the mob so he isn't hitting me. I probably get hit 25% more than you do. That should tell you something about tanking champs and avoidances.

Originally Posted by Dorothir

I've yet to lose aggro against any hunter at the beginning of a fight, unless a burg has stunned the mob so he isn't hitting me. I probably get hit 25% more than you do. That should tell you something about tanking champs and avoidances.

Reprisal puts out that much agro? surely not...

Now that is a pain. Back to the drawing board on my build then.

Originally Posted by The_Healer

Reprisal puts out that much agro? surely not...

Now that is a pain. Back to the drawing board on my build then.

Sadly it does. That was the whole point of the devs taking our shields away. They wanted us to take hits to the face and tied our aggro ability to that to prevent us maxing out parry and evade.

The only problem was they thought that our heals and bubbles would be enough to compensate and left us with less morale and crit defence than a guard or warden, both classes who are supposed to avoid getting hit.

Never did make much sense to me to give the class who will be hit the most the smallest crit def and morale of the three main tanks.

Originally Posted by Dorothir

Never did make much sense to me to give the class who will be hit the most the smallest crit def and morale of the three main tanks.

Indeed. But then I guess we are not supposed to be effective as tanks to the point where we are threatening to take away Guardian and Warden jobs

I still think putting us (and Captains perhaps) on the same Vitality = Morale scale as Guardians and Wardens would ease things both from the perspectives of game-play effectiveness and immersion/credibility.