Thread: level eighty five?

ill be honest here, lotro hasnt released half the areas in the lotr stories, if the lvl cap is already going to 85 with the new expansion, then players will be lvl two hundred by the time all content is released, i think lotro should go up by five levels instead of ten. anyone with me?

Nope. I be happier if the level cap went up by 20 with more quests to keep me busy.

We got five levels with Mirkwood. It didn't feel like much of expansion. Not much of change. There is so little change in character combat ability.

I wouldn't expect to see cap increases to that high...I originally thought Mordor would be 100 but who knows, might be a little higher. Honestly, I only see 2 or 3 major expansions after Rohan unless the rights get renewed again. I hope I'm wrong because I really would love to see the game explore the 4th Age.

Actually I would prefer also a 20 Level Up instead of 5 or 10.
Having then a few Boss Raids every 5 Level, so that you really can improve yourself by good stuff every 5 levels.
And again some kind of worldwide quest like we had years ago when everybody collected these fragments that Book14 could be played.

This would lengthen the level phase into what the game is really for:

Being played

and not in:

Being hurried and cried for Endcontent after 2 days powerleveling.

Originally Posted by Ironcrown

I wouldn't expect to see cap increases to that high...I originally thought Mordor would be 100 but who knows, might be a little higher. Honestly, I only see 2 or 3 major expansions after Rohan unless the rights get renewed again.

The rights will continue to be renewed as long as both parties are happy with the terms and dollars.

Companies rent rights with termination arguements so that the owner for several reasons:

1) It is necessary to maintain your ownership of the rights. For example, my family owns a farm. There is another farm behind our farm. My brother allows the other folks access to their property thru our property via a dirt road. Once a year for at least a day, my brother cuts the access. That way the other folks don't permanent access rights.

2) It saves the necessity of messy law suits to reclaim the rights. You can always decide not to renew. Wait for it to run out. That is how Warner Brothers got the single player game right for Lotr. We will never know what the squabble was between EA Games and Middle Earth Enterprises. All we know is that the license was not renewed.

[QUOTE=Yula_the_Mighty;6062542]1) It is necessary to maintain your ownership of the rights. For example, my family owns a farm. There is another farm behind our farm. My brother allows the other folks access to their property thru our property via a dirt road. Once a year for at least a day, my brother cuts the access. That way the other folks don't permanent access rights.

Another example: At every entrance to the University of California at Berkeley, there's a little plaque set in the ground. It reads, "Property of the Regents of the University of California. Permission to pass through may be revoked at any time." Serves the same purpose, without having to block anything off. (That's in California. In other places the laws may be different and occasional physical blockage may actually be necessary.)

Originally Posted by Perdon

Actually I would prefer also a 20 Level Up instead of 5 or 10.
Having then a few Boss Raids every 5 Level, so that you really can improve yourself by good stuff every 5 levels.
And again some kind of worldwide quest like we had years ago when everybody collected these fragments that Book14 could be played.

This would lengthen the level phase into what the game is really for:

Being played

and not in:

Being hurried and cried for Endcontent after 2 days powerleveling.

It will lenghten the level phase only if going from 75 to 76 takes weeks instead of hours (in that case, why not, I'll take it, but I can already hear massive booohooo from crowds that usually announce "it's the journey that counts"). Without that those raids you want every 5 levels will be as popular as OD/BG is now. Yes, yes, I know people still run them, I know (two) kins (per server) still run them, I know someone was gathering people in glff yesterday. But I doubt anyone would dare to suggest it is anything remotely close to pre-RoI level. I am not happy it works this way, but it should be clear it does and people as a mass follow certain patterns whether we like it or not - and I hope it is not so hard for Turbine to recognise it at some point... possibly with next expansion after RoR? Pretty please?

Also, if you think powerleveling would be affected even slightly in current leveling model, we are playing different games. People will just deal with anything non-cap via drop/quest/crafted gear, old LIs and switch to grind mode @ cap. 10 levels took less than a week without really trying, with reading every generic and few nongeneric quest descriptions, even with having fun on the way from time to time.

And I'll just jedi-handwave the issue of "levels" having anything to do with "content" or "essential to improving character", because tbh I am tired of rehashing the same obvious stuff as if it was too hard to figure it out, after characters dropped significant attachement to levels @ #50 and never got it back. We are at 75 already, should be visible...

20 levels seems like a lot, IMO. There is such a huge jump in capability from 65 to 75 that I don't feel like we need to worry about not having it feel different from 75 to 85. Plus, there is going to be a lot to do at level 85, if previous updates/expansions are any indication.

Hearing that Rohan is going to be twice the size of Moria is exciting. Rohan is supposed to be huge, wide open plains. Cramming enough quest hubs for 20 levels into the area would take away from what (I hope) is going to feel like wide open plains.

If the level cap becomes too high it will dissuade new players from even bothering to try and reach max level. Turbine's ultimate goal right now should be trying to bring new players in, something it is currently lacking. Introducing them to the game and saying, "85 LEVELS TO GO, ON YA WAY MATE!" is not a good way to acquire new players.

Unless RoR does something amazing I have a feeling it may be the game's penultimate expansion.

I am consistently gaining several levels per a gameplay session. Doesn't matter where I am leveling - be it Shire, Evendim, Eregion, Lothlorien or Dunland - leveling is just so fast, I sometime have to deliberately take breaks or go back and finish grey quests/deeds. No level cap in this game is high enough, if we get to Mordor at 150 or even 200, so what?

Originally Posted by ImirielOfTheNorth

If the level cap becomes too high it will dissuade new players from even bothering to try and reach max level.

What if that's not the goal?
As far as I am concerned more levels means more gameplay. Level cap of 100 means there hundred levels worth of gameplay at the least. That's fantastic, it means the game will last me for a long time.

for an exhaustive discussion may I point your readers interest here:

http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.p...evel-Cap-to-85

http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.p...l-cap-increase!!!

http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.p...L-CAP-Increase!!!

IF we ever get to Mordor (considering time they need to implement new regions, it will be like what, 2015? 2016?), we'll probably be at lvl 200. I seriously doubt it'll happen. MMOs don't last that long nowadays.

Originally Posted by Rapunzel666

for an exhaustive discussion may I point your readers interest here:

http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.p...evel-Cap-to-85

http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.p...l-cap-increase!!!

http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.p...L-CAP-Increase!!!

Thanks for doing this. I hope it is not entirely futile.

more levels means more gameplay

Originally Posted by Ferthcott

Thanks for doing this. I hope it is not entirely futile.

yeah, 395 pages in these three threads alone

I personally am still of the opionion that a lesser level increase doesnt hurt noone, but i am kind of feeling not so well about it.
A full expansion is expected to be 'heavy', content-wise, functional-wise (i mean new game mechanics) as well as the obligatory increase in damage numbers, achieved through upping the level cap..

It won't be five levels. When the level cap went from 60 to 65, people were still able to use their level 60 LIs. Since level cap raises are meant to be LI resets, it will need to be at least 10 levels in order to force people to throw away their level 75 LIs and start over. Again.

The devels and the producers know exactly how much the playerbase will tollerate a level expansion. If they don't then the will be shooting the golden goose.

What I would like to see instead of a leveling increase is the gaining of extra abilities and traits. If you complete a series of quests, you can unlock a new trait slot and add something to enhance your toon without having to increase your toon's level. This will allow your toon to still be viable in the moors without the expansion.

However, I can see the devels wanting to figure out a way to "force" the veteran playerbase to buy the new expansion in order to maintain their high level toons. But, they do this at the risk of alienating new players. Games like this need to keep renewing their playerbase due to attrition or they can end up like Ultima Online. There are those who still play UO, but they are far and few between these days.

There's zero correlation between number of levels and the amount of content added. Levels are completely arbitrary - they can just as well squeeze a lot of content in 5 levels or stretch a small amount over 20. Moria had way more content than RoI and they both increased the cap by the same amount.

What's important is that levels themselves directly translate into character power (they could tweak that too I guess) and the amount of mudflation introduced. A small increase (5 levels) would potentially leave all the current content somewhat relevant (the same way Moria content was suboptimal, but still relevant when Mirkwood came out). 10 or more levels given the current rate of progression is pretty much a content reset.

Originally Posted by telbric

There's zero correlation between number of levels and the amount of content added. Levels are completely arbitrary - they can just as well squeeze a lot of content in 5 levels or stretch a small amount over 20. Moria had way more content than RoI and they both increased the cap by the same amount.

That's true but content-wise there is enough XP to get you to cap so we can get an idea about the lower bound.

few things...

1st.) I have always been of the opinion that there shouldn't be a cap in place.

If there is content that can give experience rewards, then let it. Gray mobs don't give experience points, but grey quests do, (though it is very minimal, 200 or less XP.) I know this because as soon as I hit cap, I stop, backtrack and consume old deed content, or finish reputation grinds in gray area content. If I didn't expect the cap to go up, I'd likely not even backtrack, but instead, leave for other gaming opportunities. As long as a vertical leveling path is in place, it has to always be a factor. If you want me to bite off a gaming experience without a vertical progression; that has to be the case from day one of my game experience.

I think the main reason caps are used is so that developers don't have to develop with the games "TRUE" final stage in mind. They select a segment 1 - 50 and develop skills, stats, armour, etc with those levels in mind. Future additions to the character probably aren't considered until the next segment is in the development stage. This is rather unfortunate.

As far as I am concerned, remove the level cap altogether. Skills can be added as they are developed. This already happens now. Anyone remember them adding new skills to pretty much every character. My level 60 hunter going to purchase the new level (20?) split arrow skill, a skill I didn't have for 40 some levels. this was a case for pretty much every class.

So yeah NO cap in place at all.


2nd.) Given my first point, I'll take whatever increase they give us. 5 levels isn't much. 10 is better. I could easily burn through 20 before another expansion. As long as my XP bar is continuing to advance, I will continue to consume content meant to advance that. When I hit the wall,; what is called the level cap, I stop. My holding pattern whilst waiting for the cap to move up, is to do trivial content that I never completed whilst in the normal advancement of leveling.

I am a content consumer. I like a good story, adventure - quest. If a vertical path is in place on day one, it needs to be a factor ALL THE WAY THROUGH. You CANNOT have me advance 50 levels, then turn it off. If horizontal development is so critical, more emphasis needs to be given to it and the vertical progress needs to slow, not accelerate. All indicators I have seen show that the vertical leveling progression in this game is accelerated.

If you ask my for my opinion... A horizontal character advancement is shot in the foot by an accelerated vertical level climb.

So yeah, with Riders of Rohan expansion we go to level 85. I'll take it. I could take more.


3rd.) Unless something changes in game, the current game set up is to go to level 99.

Don't believe me? Try searching the auction hall for anything levels 100 and higher. 99 is the highest number that query field will take. Sure they can change that down the road, but the fact it isn't changed now means level 99 is the current capacity of the game.

Rohan is the next expansion. If Lord of the Rings is the focus of this game. We have Gondor & Mordor left. So if conventional wisdom dictates, that is 3 major expansions left, (with regional updates as addition.) At best a 4th expansion that acts like a conclusion, very much like the multiple endings of the movie, in which we see additional lands, (Mithlond and the departure of the last ships bearing elves & ringbearers into the undying west, being the obvious) and wrap up all the storylines.

If 10 levels per major expansion is the norm; that is in the ball park of level 115 at most. Currently the game is set up for level 99.

4th.) Until the ring is destroyed, I expect a vertical leveling process. That is what we got for the first 50 levels, that was the focus and it needs to stay such.

Once we reach the summation of the story in the books... THEN a purely horizontal leveling focus would make soo much more sense. As would genuinely developing pvp and all other aspects that will keep players around, once the story ends.

Some have suggested that because of the lack of stat increases beyond 50, that level advancement should have stopped there. I could not disagree more.

Simply because of development limitations, the entire landscape (all the way to Mordor and back again) could not be put, in entirety, into the game on day one. It has been a work in progress, with things being added as time passes. Until everything is added into the game in its entirety; I expect things will be changed. Areas will get reworked, skills may change, stats may eventually go up, and so on.

On day one we were given a vertical focus to advancement. If horizontal development is to be a legitimate focus... either the game has to be redone form scratch, or the story (from the books) needs to come to a conclusion. Until that point, it is an under-layer to my vertical progression.

Conclusion: This was long!

&

I would love for there to be no cap. I'll take whatever level increases come. We will definitely get a cap to at least level 99.

Ok, I guess this might not be defined as self-flagellation (yet) so ...

Originally Posted by Jarryd

If I didn't expect the cap to go up, I'd likely not even backtrack, but instead, leave for other gaming opportunities.

Originally Posted by Jarryd

I am a content consumer. I like a good story, adventure - quest.

We have some sort of contradiction here, but who knows, when it comes to personal preference it is not math I guess.

Originally Posted by Jarryd

You CANNOT have me advance 50 levels, then turn it off. If horizontal development is so critical, more emphasis needs to be given to it and the vertical progress needs to slow, not accelerate. All indicators I have seen show that the vertical leveling progression in this game is accelerated.

Has decelerated in terms of ways of improving character. Has accelerated in terms of level numbers. And in terms of character capabilities, those new levels have had nearly NOTHING to do with it.

Originally Posted by Jarryd

Until the ring is destroyed, I expect a vertical leveling process. That is what we got for the first 50 levels, that was the focus and it needs to stay such.

Not black & white case I am afraid. There is a LOT of horizontal, level-independent (or tied to arbitrary level thus malleable) character progression in 1-50 range. It withers shortly after with final legendary trait being its last breath. No, LI is NOT the same, because the whole system is tied to level *with each cap increase*, so more vertical than horizontal. It is like I would have to regrind my class trait I got @ 20lv after MoM, SoM, RoI, RoR... And yet, level upgrade means nothing more to such system than acquiring a "permission" to use certain LI. It is like annoying middle-man unable to justify his existence beyond "It has ALWAYS been like this".

Originally Posted by Jarryd

Some have suggested that because of the lack of stat increases beyond 50, that level advancement should have stopped there. I could not disagree more.

Not should have stopped. Might as well stop. Because it's what happens more or less, we are just fed some illusion with "permissions" to use gear or access instances. Think about skills that are no longer scaling up. Better yet, can you offer any advantage from leveling up that is not:
- (false) miss buff against lower level mobs, reduction of such stat against previously higher level mobs
- minuscule, background increase to character effectiveness from randomly selected skills that *do* scale
- "improved" skills (so not exactly new) - or the ones added in class revamps
- arbitrary "permissions" to use gear

So effectively, many are clamoring for "new levels!" even though our character development curve is turning more and more flat with gear picking up the slack and everything else basically... dead.

There is something wrong with "progression" from leveling if the only mildly-sensible buff we get is the first one, and "gear permissions" are more useful as prevention system against "circumvent the game" kind of people.

Highly doubt we'll see anything of Mordor *at all* other than its black gates ... and a great lidless eye covered in flames in the far far distant overlooking everything.

Like Boromir said "not with a thousand men you could go there", so if the lore prevents anything (except two brave hobbits and gollum) from even thinking to enter there: why would we be able to go there?

Originally Posted by Ferthcott

There is a LOT of horizontal, level-independent (or tied to arbitrary level thus malleable) character progression in 1-50 range. It withers shortly after with final legendary trait being its last breath. No, LI is NOT the same, because the whole system is tied to level *with each cap increase*, so more vertical than horizontal. It is like I would have to regrind my class trait I got @ 20lv after MoM, SoM, RoI, RoR... And yet, level upgrade means nothing more to such system than acquiring a "permission" to use certain LI. It is like annoying middle-man unable to justify his existence beyond "It has ALWAYS been like this".

And you merely point out Shadows of Angmar was the initial offering and decisions made then (likely driven by marketing) to deliver a complete experience as the first offer; they served up a full menu. I don't doubt some devs saw how much this cemented the future, but I also don't doubt with soo many oars in the water, not everyone was paddling in the same direction.

I also don't think the vision of Legendarily items was quite so cohesive either... Jeffrey might have chose to bite off the tip of his tongue, rather than promise they'd grow with us, if he saw each expansion following Moria with utter clarity. But just like SoA, Moria was its own beast. As the game has grown, there seems to be a tad more thought to a cohesive progression; but until the ring is cast in Mount Doom, the landscape is filled out, the actual size of the game is clearer... these things are still somewhat fluid.

I fully expect more changes to older content like the reassigned levels in Enedwaith, or the mobs in the city of Annuminas, as the game continues to grow in landmass & content. So I am NOT saying it has always been like this. I am saying, this game is a work in progress. There were decisions made that probably hamstrung more than just a couple of developers.

Originally Posted by Ferthcott

Not should have stopped. Might as well stop. Because it's what happens more or less, we are just fed some illusion with "permissions" to use gear or access instances. Think about skills that are no longer scaling up. Better yet, can you offer any advantage from leveling up that is not:
- (false) miss buff against lower level mobs, reduction of such stat against previously higher level mobs
- minuscule, background increase to character effectiveness from randomly selected skills that *do* scale
- "improved" skills (so not exactly new) - or the ones added in class revamps
- arbitrary "permissions" to use gear

So effectively, many are clamoring for "new levels!" even though our character development curve is turning more and more flat with gear picking up the slack and everything else basically... dead.

There is something wrong with "progression" from leveling if the only mildly-sensible buff we get is the first one, and "gear permissions" are more useful as prevention system against "circumvent the game" kind of people.

And again, the meaningful progression you are speaking of was the nice little development box called Shadows of Angmar. Halting level advancement will not fix the limitations you describe. Not without rolling all content introduced at Moria and everything added since down to level 50.

If that is what you want... I ask again, why even bother with the initial 50 levels? Why level up at all?

---

When the game is fully flushed out & all regions are on the live servers, I think many of these problems can be addressed without having everything undone by the next expansion. Until that time, leveling keeps me playing.

Full disclosure, if RoI didn't raise the level cap from 65-75, I'd very likely be playing SWTOR right now. As it stands, I never purchased SWTOR. I suspect there is a good chance GW2 will be arriving to the public in early fall. If the cap of 75 was extended through Riders of Rohan, you can pretty much bet, I'd be off to try GW2. With cap raising to 85, I have reason to stay.

Originally Posted by Zombielord

Highly doubt we'll see anything of Mordor *at all* other than its black gates ... and a great lidless eye covered in flames in the far far distant overlooking everything.

Like Boromir said "not with a thousand men you could go there", so if the lore prevents anything (except two brave hobbits and gollum) from even thinking to enter there: why would we be able to go there?

Well unlike the movies, once the ring was destroyed, the entire region didn't collapse in on itself.

Look at it as a mop-up job. Whilst no longer unified under the will of Sauron; the baddies most certainly had their own grievances. If you look at the extended histories of the Gondor, they were almost Imperialistic in their dealings with the south and east.

I am not saying this will happen. Rather, if the shelf life of the game is extended, there are areas that could be added as expansions.

Originally Posted by Jarryd

I also don't doubt with soo many oars in the water, not everyone was paddling in the same direction.
...
I also don't think the vision of Legendarily items was quite so cohesive either...
...
until the ring is cast in Mount Doom, the landscape is filled out, the actual size of the game is clearer... these things are still somewhat fluid.

No argument here. The issue is, why are fake levels a priority without... let's call it cohesiveness? Can we get more of it first, as something that would actually affect the game as a whole? Releveling Enedwaith hardly fixed any of the issues you described. While I can imagine nobody has exact idea what this game is "supposed" to look like in final form (I doubt there is any "final form" with this kind of product anyway), I am not really buying the concept of spending entire time in half-finished hovel built from wood, clay, steel and grass while waiting for villa to be available "soon". And paying the same money as for the villa. I'd rather fool myself into thinking this is fully functional product for full price. Makes me deluded, but happier. Well, when I am not demanding something better, that is.

Originally Posted by Jarryd

Halting level advancement will not fix the limitations you describe. Not without rolling all content introduced at Moria and everything added since down to level 50.

Er, not really... First of all, halting level advancement is not supposed to be a "cure". I never said anything like that. It is not even required for anything. In best case - it might be "avoiding of unnecessary disease". The point is, level advancement is meaningless in current form and therefore we could easily imagine better use of resources. Also, rolling Moria+ content is nowhere near necessary. Unless there is some sort of mysterious reason it cannot be upgraded according to the same principles while leaving the rest as it is. Hell, even the route they chose with task boards (Eregion => Dunland, nothing in Moria/Loth/Mirk) would be acceptable, *even* in Eregion => Gondor jump. They can explain everything in the middle as "LI period" for all I care. I can live with inconsistencies as long as they lead to something positive. And yet.. why do I get a feeling our next stage of "horizontal" will be "war-steed of third age"?

Originally Posted by Jarryd

If that is what you want... I ask again, why even bother with the initial 50 levels? Why level up at all?

Because we actually get something horizontal in 1-50? Because further levels serve as a main dish even though fake and replaced with gear 5 seconds later? Because 1-50 are *worth* bothering due to direct advancements embedded into them not just "permissions"? Also, because the path you set up with that last question inevitably leads to that middle-man's excuse "that is the system, deal with it" while overlooking flaws of *implementation* of the system and the fact you already described it is neither end-of-all nor respected by developers themselves...

Originally Posted by Jarryd

When the game is fully flushed out I think many of these problems can be addressed without having everything undone by the next expansion. Until that time, leveling keeps me playing. If RoI didn't raise the level cap from 65-75, I'd very likely be playing SWTOR right now. If the cap of 75 was extended through Riders of Rohan, you can pretty much bet, I'd be off to try GW2. With cap raising to 85, I have reason to stay.

Again, even if RoI somehow turned out to be quest-packed, adventure-ridden with overwhelming story & content? Also, the whole point is, those levels did squat. Character progression was handled by stat inflation & gear bonanza. We did get +10 levels of... nothing or almost nothing. That's why I am amazed you keep reverting to that "I played because there were new levels" argument. There is nothing wrong with raising level cap in general. But not if those levels are just worthless numbers, permission grants, content waste, mirrored re-grind for arbitrary selected part of the game etc etc. Or in other words: if they are simply smoke screen for the fact there is little to none actual character progression thanks to them AND they are not worth the price they require.

A couple issues here.

1. Level has no real world equivalent.
If there is content for levels 86-90 to keep people busy until the next expansion, then it will work. If there is enough content for levels 86-120 to keep people busy until the next expansion, then it will also work.

2. I do think that post Mordor, we should go into an Alternate advancement cycle. Where Mordor represents the level cap, and all advancement after that is horizontal. Things like boosting traits and passive bonuses and racial and reputation quests.

Originally Posted by Zombielord

Highly doubt we'll see anything of Mordor *at all* other than its black gates ... and a great lidless eye covered in flames in the far far distant overlooking everything.

Like Boromir said "not with a thousand men you could go there", so if the lore prevents anything (except two brave hobbits and gollum) from even thinking to enter there: why would we be able to go there?

It is possible that we will get into Mordor.If you read the book,I believe the fields of cormellian chapter(not sure of spelling)the last pages mention that they waited so long to depart back to the city because a number of soldiers had ventured into Mordor and destroyed the northern fortresses there.

With the popularity of LotR and and with the upcoming movies,which will bring more interest,its possible that this game will be extended past 2017 and we will be able to see all new areas such as the Iron Hills,southern Gondor,Dol Amroth,the Grey Havens,Dale and numerous other locations throughout ME.Just because the Ring is destroyed doesnt mean that there arent still numerous enemies out there.

I enjoy leveling a lot more then high-leve-equipment-grind.
So if there are more levels, it's all the better.


The one problem I see with higher levels and more content is that peopel who don't have the maximum level, can't earn seals.
All the old instances where you used to get the "good stuff" now are only interesting at level 75 really and will become even less interesting in the future.
You play them once for the story and that's it. The rest of the time you go there for the instance deeds but without getting anything interesting.

Originally Posted by difens

IF we ever get to Mordor (considering time they need to implement new regions, it will be like what, 2015? 2016?), we'll probably be at lvl 200. I seriously doubt it'll happen. MMOs don't last that long nowadays.

Eh... I hate to point this out but, that OTHER game we don't want to name has been around what? 11-12 years? Surely this game would run at least that long considering the fan base alone?

Levels are just a number. We could all be level 1,000,000+ right now if a new "level" were every xp point.

It's meaningless to discuss L80, 85, 100 without context.

The REAL questions are the rate of advancement, the additional skills and power growth, and itemization gates and changes that come with the expansion.

The actual L# is absolutely meaningless.

---

I personally wish they'd stop the artificial "level" mechanic and just allow us to advance our power levels through more lateral development, specializations, skill focuses etc...

Originally Posted by Thane9

It's meaningless to discuss L80, 85, 100 without context.

The REAL questions are the rate of advancement, the additional skills and power growth, and itemization gates and changes that come with the expansion.

The actual L# is absolutely meaningless.

I personally wish they'd stop the artificial "level" mechanic and just allow us to advance our power levels through more lateral development, specializations, skill focuses etc...

I agree with what you've said. While passing levels and enjoying the exploding tree at the moment you do so is satisfying, what really makes any game interesting is character development. Advancing in levels has real meaning only when you see actual improvements to your character as a result of doing so. Right now, after level 50 the improvements get harder and harder to see. Improved and new skills are interesting, higher stats actually improving your character is interesting, improved traits because you have grown in power due to your high level would be interesting. I don't care if they raise the level cap by 10 or 20 or 30 ... what I would like to see is level advancement mean more to how good your character is, aside from qualifying for the newest sets of jewellery and gear.

what does really happen after the ring is destroyed? in the movie the ground opens and the evil army fall down into a huge crack. i doubt that happens in the book.

Originally Posted by ruogon

what does really happen after the ring is destroyed? in the movie the ground opens and the evil army fall down into a huge crack. i doubt that happens in the book.

We don't have much information on this, but basically the mordor army flee: without their leader, orc goblins and trolls hide in caves.
However after previous Sauron's defeat against Elendil and Gil-galad, orcs kept roaming the land, and ended up killing Isildur who was carrying the ring. The ring wasn't destroyed at that time, but Sauron lost all his power for a while, yet some orcs still existed.

It is therefore possible to create lore compatible content that happens after Sauron's defeat. However after you fought legendary evils such as Shelob, maybe the Witch-King or even Sauron, what content could you possibly offer that would be thrilling enough ?
I'd rather see lotro end it's life with the book epilogue (Mithlond) than adding artificial content.

Back to topic:
I love Mirkwood 5 levels. I just leveled up another character on a new server and it felt so much of a chore when you already know the game. There is nothing to discover, it's just boring to do the same content you've already done.
I play MMO to play in groups, and these 10 additional level just meant I couldn't group for another 10 levels.

Mirkwood had other advantages, mainly the fact that it didn't completly obsolete Moria content. It was nice to see that HoC and GE were still heavily farmed even if they weren't top level content. It added a lot of variety. Now it's just foundry and the same skraid you could run at level 20 (and of course they just added one new instance but it took time).

Originally Posted by ruogon

what does really happen after the ring is destroyed? in the movie the ground opens and the evil army fall down into a huge crack. i doubt that happens in the book.

doesnt matter what happend in the book or in the movie, turbine / WB will get this cashcow game running after the ring is destroyed as long as player will spend enough money in the shop...

I thought the jump from 65 to 75 was too much, there was no need to 'increase' our level cap then, and imo there isn't now.
It should stay 75 until the last expansion we see....after-all, its the skills and combat abilities that can/should be expanded upon. A level is just a number.
85 no way. I liked it back when the cap was 50.

Originally Posted by Zombielord

Highly doubt we'll see anything of Mordor *at all* other than its black gates ... and a great lidless eye covered in flames in the far far distant overlooking everything.

Like Boromir said "not with a thousand men you could go there", so if the lore prevents anything (except two brave hobbits and gollum) from even thinking to enter there: why would we be able to go there?

Most inhabitants of Eriador at that time would not have been able to...

- confer with Elrond
- meet the Fellowship
- enter Lothlorien
- meet and confer with Celeborn and Galadriel
- engage in direct combat against a balrog, a Nazgul, or Saruman

I don't doubt that some explanation will be found as to why we're able to enter Mordor.

Just think about the amount of slop in there and you will have an explanation.

Isn't there some level 90 door in Archet or Combe now?

I think we can expect something around there, if not that. When levels go beyond 100 though, ruh roh!

Yes and no... I think yes because there would always be adventure. No because if it does get to j
High then think about the ppl who just bought the game or just joined. It would be incredible hard to catch upand not worth doing. I mean I don't play much and I get bored in secs because 1 there's nothing for lvs from 1-50 to do I don't even play my other toons because I'm constantly trying to lv up

"One cannot simply walk into Mordor"

1. I say more levels, more content. If you say it is a grind then don't let it be, take your time and enjoy the game. You know those people that you click on then immediately click accept quest? They actually say words... And those words actually make a story, try following the story. Make the journey enjoyable and stop complaining. I would be ok if the level cap was 200.

2. As much as I would love to have 10+ more expansions, it will not be. I believe there will only one more expansion after RoR. This will be Gondor. This will be the biggest expansion, including Pellanor fields, maybe Minas Tirith (maybe too big, possibly some other Gondor city), Ithillien, parts of Mordor like Minas Morgul and the Black gate (probably where the endgame instances will be). This will probably be 15 levels going to level 100.

Originally Posted by crooner

It is therefore possible to create lore compatible content that happens after Sauron's defeat. However after you fought legendary evils such as Shelob, maybe the Witch-King or even Sauron, what content could you possibly offer that would be thrilling enough ?
I'd rather see lotro end it's life with the book epilogue (Mithlond) than adding artificial content.

I don't see us fighting Sauron, especially because he did not regain his shape before he was destroyed by the desctruction of the Ring.

Some here have mentioned levels are meaningless. If this is true, it is also true for monsters. Think about it: we just fought a level 75 Saruman, and we know there will be higher level monsters later on who, all other things being equal, would actually be weaker than Saruman. So just because we will fight things after Mordor, doesn't mean they are more powerful. You just have to use your imagination.

I'd rather not see LotRO end its life at all, although I would like to go to Mithlond as a book epilogue. I still want to see the Withered Heath, the Eastern Shore of the sea of Rhun, and gain Kindred with the Swan Knights of Dol Amroth.