Given the amount of freep escape skills dying rage is almost useless. Classes can feign death, hips, bubble, pop huge heal cooldowns just to stay alive long enough until i die from misadventure. Most champs are going to pop a cooldown and laugh at me for 15secs.
He's talking about using it to deny points, which is not quite the same as sprinting away (as you still die).
"Spiders CC is unbearable... it's just as bad as loremasters" ~ Brodster
True, grouped/raided freeps with all the buffs, damage and if they have equal or near equal #s, assuming they're played adequately. Have been in some raids with new players, to encourage their entry into PVMP, to the moors who didn't understand their class (shield wall, in harms way, etc.) or FF.
Solo is a bit more challenging as creep groups/raids and warg packs will either eat you up or make you burn CDs depending.
This whole issue is really just about the effect of warg packs on soloers or small group players.
Warg packs have never really shown skill of any sort, and if a warg pack is just out to gank small group/soloers then they are just another bunch of zerglings, and should be addressed as such.
I imagine this thread would say Spiders are broken, please fix if this player ran into:
Only popped here to say what an awesome looking raid you got there
Oh and yes, continue the QQ vs QQ. Im not even bothering to read it
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Given the amount of freep escape skills dying rage is almost useless. Classes can feign death, hips, bubble, pop huge heal cooldowns just to stay alive long enough until i die from misadventure. Most champs are going to pop a cooldown and laugh at me for 15secs.
Not really, still usually gets a kill. If they hips or flop and aren't going to die then just jet off in the opposite direction, lose/lose and chalk it up to poor playing on their part. I was more referring to DR's damage boost, though. Any champ that's got a clue is just going to kill to with remorseless, also. So I'd restack 3-4 DoT's and pray.
posting on a banned account. GET AT ME JESUS, WHAT NOW?!
An entire class is not "broken" because one experienced player managed to win a few 1v1s'.
i know that, i base it off other stuff too, such as that any 2 lowbie wargs can kill anything they want with impunity, then hips away if the group tries to dps them, a good sign of a broken class is when despite stacking 11.5k morale and 40% tact mit BEFORE audacity and full raid buffs. my "OP" rk gets torn to shreds with before the 3 minnies and other rk can dismount and try to heal me. and yes i even tried elf parry an hour cooldown. which let me live once.
that sorta experience (repeated for the entire day, they only wanted me) tends to make me feel like wargs got too much dps, given that and other things i've seen not to mention heard, i've been out here a while, and something feels broken. i want both sides to be even, but i'm seeing more and more packs out than ever before,
it's not like i haven't said burgs should be nerfed too, cause i have. wargs are becoming a griefing class, like burgs are, that's a bad thing, i'm not saying warg players have no skill, i've seen plenty with skill, but skill matters less now, and also packing will destroy what skill young wargs might have learnt. I honestly care about both sides here cause i play both sides. i also wanted mini's nerfed when they were op too.
You will find that conversational range increases dramatically when you talk about what you think, rather than what you know.
You do make a point, but just quoting my post doesn't mean yours actually addresses mine - at all, in this case. It's completely lacking context.
Are you trying to suggest that wargs and spiders need to be nerfed because you claim there are more of them now? Should we continue this line of thought from the opposite side, all the minstrels, wardens and rune-keepers out there should be nerfed as well.
Both of these arguments fall under the 'demanding changes that would suit me as an individual player' category, which I believe I covered rather comprehensively - and more importantly objectively - in my original message.
I did and my point wasn't about me, yes, I know most people are self invovled and selfish but you're assuming too much. IN MY POST, I was referring to SERVERS not my players or characters or my situation or myself. Hence - more wargs/spiders on a given server could be a good thing or a bad thing for EVERYONE's play. BTW people transfer such as the exodus from Vilya to BW lately. So one server can affect the other server players as well.
Pre-RoI R8 warg Brandywine R7 BA Brandywine R5 WL Brandywine R5 Warg Landroval R6 warg Vilya R5 BA Vilya
If you add up every Mini, champ, and burg that entered the moors last week, they would still be out number by wargs.
FOTM is just going to make it worse.....
LOL because all of those wargs are super OP, I'm sure they've all bought their skills and all have a solid understanding of their class after playing it 75 levels...oh wait
R.I.P. Nidor of Brandywine (1970-2012)
Ade my friend and mentor
A 10s knockdown and unbreakable root have no place in pvp. Otherwise wargs seem fine.
Sounds like someone got Toppled and Pack Flayed
Geändert von PurebloodWorg (Mar 21 2012 um 09:11 AM Uhr)
My name is Purebloodnakh, Chieftain of Saruman's Armies of the North, General of the Warg Legions, loyal servant to the true Lord, Sauron. And I will have my vengeance, in this life or the next.
I just wanted to point out what everyone else was too scared to for fear of reprisal. sigh i knew this would turn into a flamewar
to that end:
thorgrum, i'm calling you out, transfer to brandywine, you did promise me a jihad, or live forever in cowardly shame.
also i notice you playing your rk in the godly rk part of history, ok thorgrum, now you're on your warg, you started once rk's got nerfed right? that's fine i expect people to play easier classes rather than sticking to one.
c'mon thorgrum don't get flunkies to do it, i'm sure you got some flunkies on bw, do it yourself, i triple dog dare ya!
tell me your creeps name and transfer, i really wanna see what you got to bring to the table
I’m calling you out because you’re now crying for a nerf to wargs which is pathetic, every time you cry for a nerf to any class I’m hopeful every player of the game comes crashing in and shouts you down.
You can’t handle wargs ask for a buff, I’m okay with that. No nerf’s to minis, none to RK’s, none to BA’s the nerf bat is for the weak and one only needs to reread your initial post to see very clearly your weakness. Had you the skill you seemed to be so proud of prior to the update you would have figured out the work around for packs, it’s called “raiding up” .
From what I gather you’ve got a nice fan base on brandy, id think you’d put your head back in the sand and stop posting at this point but I’m not you. It doesn’t make a lot of sense to be crying about wargs in one post then asking for one to transfer to your server specifically to kill you. However if you have the resources to port me there and back to ridder sure I’ll come.
Pony up the cash for the TP, or come to ridder. I’ll put you in touch with 2 of the best Moors kins on ridder server and I’ll still pwn your crying ###.
Geändert von Thorgrum (Mar 21 2012 um 09:37 AM Uhr)
LOL because all of those wargs are super OP, I'm sure they've all bought their skills and all have a solid understanding of their class after playing it 75 levels...oh wait
LOL. Im sure all of those champs, burgs, and Mini are super OP, they are all geared and know how to play thier class.
Assumptions...win
Creeps were beating champs/burg/Mini while they were "OP" "gode-mode" classes. Baddies will be bad regardless if what class they play. Its the good ones that caused all the creep QQ because "gode-mode" class in the hand of a skilled player is just stupidly unbalanced.
Oh..wait, none of that has anything to do with my previous post.
I was just noting that the warg stalker is BY FAR the most popular class in the moors and always has been. It almost double the #2 most popular class..FREEvers..I mean reavers. Making it the FoTM class creeps side is, in a few weeks, going to make a ridiculously OP class, as in Over Populated", even more so.
Is the class Over Powered, in my experience no, then again take a look at my signature, not sure I can call any class "OP" without laughing at myself. Not every one plays a mini so others opinions could differ.
Geändert von doug01 (Mar 21 2012 um 09:33 AM Uhr)
"...FF is still the best server period, its like the Texas of Lotro"-Bace
I agree...wargs are broken....WE MUST HAVE MORE DPS!!! MORE I SAY!!!...much much more. We have alot to get done. Young pups to raise. Paws to get manicured. We need alot of freep kills to keep our energy up....so I say...MORE DPS PLEASE!!!
Please do something about the stupidly high warg dps and mitigations, they are very broken,
Just one thing is broken, and isnt wargs
Zitat von loki84
I realise i'll get flamed by warg devotee's for this but someone has to say it.
no why flamed? We just lols hard on you
Zitat von loki84
i watched a warg in a 1v1 circle today DESTROY our server's best burgs, champs, and in a fight that lasted well over 5 minutes.... guards, the burg died in less than a minute and the champ didn't even last that long, in all cases the warg didn't even get to half health, it wasn't that the warg was good
No thats mean he understood his warg class right, and know his skill rotation, and can do high dps in few seconds, knows how to debuff his enemy. And HOW KITE efectively
Zitat von loki84
(though they were competent) it was that they just weren't taking any appreciable damage and were hitting for up to 2k at a time.
Trolololololo 2k hit by wargs? Maybe when dev crit in two hits with scratch and snip! but its rly lucky hit.
Zitat von loki84
I play an rk, and rk's are finally in a good spot after U6, but i think everyone will agree that against a warg like that, it really counts for little.
Talkin RK which have 10k+ hits mom, 6+k hits in roi, 6k+ hits preroi, who can crit with his spamable skill over 1000+, which can stun you in everyhit, and in heal traited is unkilabble.
Zitat von loki84
what i report is a solo warg, but when they pack up, you can't live you just can't, there is no fight, there is only 2 second death and it's time to leave the board for soloers.
pack of burgs can kill their target in 2sec too
Zitat von loki84
i understand many who read this will be biased, i don't care just fix the wargs
I dont care to you too. Go L2P. kkthxbye.
Sincerely your lovely puppies
Geändert von Theandil (Mar 21 2012 um 10:59 AM Uhr)
I was just noting that the warg stalker is BY FAR the most popular class in the moors and always has been. It almost double the #2 most popular class..FREEvers..I mean reavers.
Just want to react on this statement and throw my 2 coppers in. Wargs are indeed the most popular class in the Moors accross all servers. And with them being the new FOTM is becoming a problem.
Dont get me wrong here: im a full time creep since Mirkwood and im very happy for my friends, veterans wargs players, to finally get some love from the devs. But the consequences are getting a bit unpleasant. Wargs are now representing about 30-50% of Creeps force at any given moment in the Moors, at least on my server, Landroval. This result in having a large Warg pack roaming the map, looking for small group/solos freep most of the time and assisting the *visible*, smaller creep raid during raid vs raid action.
Lets reverse the roles here for a minute and think about how Creeps would react/enjoy the PvP if they were constantly jumped by a large mob of burglars each few minutes...I know i would be very pissed and cant blame the freeps for being pissed as well by a constant huge Warg pack slaugthering them.
Bottom line: To answer the OP, i dont think Wargs need nerf, but im convinced the Reaver is the class that need to be buff/revamp to the same level, to help balancing the creep population a bit more. Less Wargs and more Reavers would definatly make the Raid vs Raid action more enjoyable for everyone.
Like i said, just my 2 coppers...
Geändert von whitefox1313 (Mar 21 2012 um 11:33 AM Uhr)
i know that, i base it off other stuff too, such as that any 2 lowbie wargs can kill anything they want with impunity, then hips away if the group tries to dps them, a good sign of a broken class is when despite stacking 11.5k morale and 40% tact mit BEFORE audacity and full raid buffs. my "OP" rk gets torn to shreds with before the 3 minnies and other rk can dismount and try to heal me. and yes i even tried elf parry an hour cooldown. which let me live once.
that sorta experience (repeated for the entire day, they only wanted me) tends to make me feel like wargs got too much dps, given that and other things i've seen not to mention heard, i've been out here a while, and something feels broken. i want both sides to be even, but i'm seeing more and more packs out than ever before,
it's not like i haven't said burgs should be nerfed too, cause i have. wargs are becoming a griefing class, like burgs are, that's a bad thing, i'm not saying warg players have no skill, i've seen plenty with skill, but skill matters less now, and also packing will destroy what skill young wargs might have learnt. I honestly care about both sides here cause i play both sides. i also wanted mini's nerfed when they were op too.
just so you know, you kinda made yourself a target with this thread lol, and the warg you were mentioning even posted that you are there #1 target from now on. kinda brought it on yourself. oh, and when you come to 1v1 circles cappy buffed, expect to be zerged from now on
Zitat von whitefox1313
Lets reverse the roles here for a minute and think about how Creeps would react/enjoy the PvP if they were constantly jumped by a large mob of burglars each few minutes...I know i would be very pissed and cant blame the freeps for being pissed as well by a constant huge Warg pack slaugthering them.
had this happen. been jumped by 3-4 burgs before(cause lets face it, they dont need anywhere near the numbers wargs need in their packs), and i can still generally make them pop CD's. which does makes me lol, just a little at how bad burgs are on BW.
also been zerged by warg packs when on my hunter/lm/mini. best case scenario, i notice them before im in combat, pop my brand, and run for the nearest NPC's to avoid them. on my hunter i tend t still die, cause i have no heals at all. on my mini/lm i live about 30/70, but even the 30% i live makes me happy to know i denyed a warg pack a kill, even if i had to blow every CD i had. of course when im roaming off solo no where near friendly npc's, im pretty much screwed.
basically point it, no matter how much you buff/nerf wargs and burgs, they are always going to pack. tbh not a whole lot has changed from pre-U6. if you got attacked by 10 wargs then, you died most of the time, you get attacked by 10 wargs now, you still die most of them time.
i know that, i base it off other stuff too, such as that any 2 lowbie wargs can kill anything they want with impunity, then hips away if the group tries to dps them, a good sign of a broken class is when despite stacking 11.5k morale and 40% tact mit BEFORE audacity and full raid buffs. my "OP" rk gets torn to shreds with before the 3 minnies and other rk can dismount and try to heal me. and yes i even tried elf parry an hour cooldown. which let me live once.
Whoa whoa whoa now.
Look me and lockjawz have 10/10 coordination. We rotate debuffs, stuns, and all sorts of tactics in fights. It's how we win fights against 3-4, hell even 5 good freeps ON OCCASION. We have superior coordination, and tactics/reaction speed because I and him drive the fight in such a way. Now considering that~ I can tell you me and lock do not mind jumping in the fray for a kill, but we still have to be DAMN picky about what we pounce because guess what? We can't kill "anything" and get away before dps'ed.
W.e duo was doing this to you, well holy #### man if they can do better than me and lock and kill something with 11k b4 the others freeps even hit their dismount key.... Damn bruh should we reroll? Thought we were quite good there for a minute =/
(Just bustin your ish about that kalym, not attackin you lol)
And to all the other posters, YO CHILL THE FUXX OUT YO, because the OP and me aren't like... enemies lol, so don't treat this like an attack thread. /saidallthereistosay
♥-ღ°•๑۩۩๑ •°♥ ~ Lovepounce ~ R11 Arctic Wolf ~ ♥-ღ°•๑۩۩๑ •°♥
๑۩۩๑ R0 ~ R8 34 Days ๑۩۩๑ R9 ~ R10 27 Days ๑۩۩๑ R10 ~ R11 16 Days ๑۩۩๑
So, all the recipients of the stun are capped at 7 audacity? And we're being honest right? It doesn't matter if it leaves the warg rooted and helpless, it's a zerg/pack skill. Clearly warg packs were in need of such a buff, lol.
Anyways, my major issue with knockdowns is that they still aren't on the DR table, copping 2-3 stuns/dazes then eating a full duration knockdown is stupid.
No, we can't assume that everyone has 7 audacity, but we can assume that that is how the devs balanced the moors. With the assumption that everyone has 7 audacity. Crying nerf and OP and w/e at this point is just being childish. We need to wait until everyone has capped audacity before saying that something is OP. It's the same for a new freep that comes out with quest gear. You're going to get destroyed more than likely because the moors are not balanced around a fresh freep in quest gear. It is balanced around a freep who has had experience in the moors and has some pretty good gear.
Now, I'm going to approach your second statement in one of two ways. Either:
1) You're fighting one warg
or
2) You're fighting a group of creeps.
Now, if it is 1, then where are all these magical stuns and dazes that we have? I have yet to see them. If it is 2, then heck ya you're going to eat CC. WELCOME TO THE MOORS! Same goes for a solo creep fighting a group of freeps. You're going to be CCed to death and there's nothing you can do about it. If you think that you should be able to kill the group of creeps solo, then you are mistaken and have a bit of an entitlement issue.
Now, as a r9 warg who has had a bit of experience in the moors, there are only 2 things that I would name as "OP" and not even nearly as "OP" as mini full heals and crazy dps in WS or shield line wardens. These 2 are 1) Shadow stance almost completely ignoring b/p/e for claw/maul/eye rake/shadow fangs and 2) the 100% chance to place the induction interrupt brute buff from claws while in flayer stance. The 10s knockdown (which is already cut to 7.5s if you're above lvl 40) should only be thought of as a 5s knockdown since we must base our thoughts around everyone having r7 audacity since that is what the devs planned. And 5s is not bad at all. As for the flayer lockdown, I don't think that that is OP since 1) it is bugged atm and isn't working against champs/guards if they sprint (think that's the reason it's not working) and 2) it locks the warg in melee range of their target and removes the warg's b/p/e while leaving them unable to do anything.
I don't like the emphasis on warg packs that was made. I personally never run in warg packs (Note: when I say warg packs, I mean a group that is only or mainly wargs. I still run in raids and groups sometimes) since I think that stealth packs are just cheap and the ez moders way out. My response to the flood of tears atm is that you guys need to learn to adapt (like you've told us to many times). The warg is in no way OP. We are in a good spot to put up a good fight for most freep classes. So if you call wargs OP, learn to play your class and stop feeling entitled to ez mode farm in the moors.
Have a nice day and I shall see you out in the moors .
1) Shadow stance almost completely ignoring b/p/e for claw/maul/eye rake/shadow fangs
Lots of discussion on this topic....can anyone supply some numbers.
1) B/P/E or not.....what is the DPS of a shadow warg? - Is it too high versus survivability in that stance?
2) With the introduction of finesse, how many of those skills were actually b/p/e in a fight versus a high ranked warg (outside TnG, Pledge)? - my assumption is a very small % - especially for light armors and champs (fervour). If my assumption is correct then the addition of a few hits into a fight that may have been b/p/e before would not result in a large increase in DPS in a typical fight.
Bottom line: Shadow gives up survivability for dps/spike. Doesn't really matter how the DPS comes about - just a question on whether the DPS is appropriate keeping in mind the eventually reduction in DPS with audacity. Guards are not likely in a bad place (similar morale and better mits then shadow - I would assume flayer is a better stance for guard/warg fights), and burgs have lots of other tools at their disposal. WRT packs....many>one = wai?
How man wargs can 1 mini beat at the same time 3? 4?
The OP thinks that wargs are OP, I wonder what they think about Mini's?
Don't worry I just noticed this:
Suggesting that Mini's were once OP but are fine now :/
That was true before - I watched Winterfell on Brandywine blow me and 2 other wargs up at HH (with some NPC help) 2 months ago and I've seen Juppy on WTAB and Booziez at LY on Vilya blow up 4 wargs and survive.
But that's changed, take a look at these
[/QUOTE]
Pre-RoI R8 warg Brandywine R7 BA Brandywine R5 WL Brandywine R5 Warg Landroval R6 warg Vilya R5 BA Vilya
Please do something about the stupidly high warg dps and mitigations, they are very broken,
I realise i'll get flamed by warg devotee's for this but someone has to say it.
i watched a warg in a 1v1 circle today DESTROY our server's best burgs, champs, and in a fight that lasted well over 5 minutes.... guards, the burg died in less than a minute and the champ didn't even last that long, in all cases the warg didn't even get to half health, it wasn't that the warg was good (though they were competent) it was that they just weren't taking any appreciable damage and were hitting for up to 2k at a time.
I play an rk, and rk's are finally in a good spot after U6, but i think everyone will agree that against a warg like that, it really counts for little.
what i report is a solo warg, but when they pack up, you can't live you just can't, there is no fight, there is only 2 second death and it's time to leave the board for soloers.
i understand many who read this will be biased, i don't care just fix the wargs
Uhhh, you guys are doing something wrong then. RKs and Champions can easily do well against wargs. For a burg it is a little harder depending heavily on the burg getting the initial attack on the warg. Guards should be able to take a warg too, but that depends heavily on their build being good. Another fact is the audacity and rank of the warg you are fighting versus your own. A RK with 5 or above audacity should be able to blow up just about anything given that audacity gives them longer to land their mega crits.
Anyway, given the current status of Wardens, you freeps need to lay off. I don't even bother to pounce audacity heavy Wardens anymore unless someone else has already beaten them down to below 30% morale.
Zitat von 0987654321
hes just upset cause he cant 2 shots thing anymore. RK's are so powerful right now, how can you possibly complain. wargs hit nowhere near 2k a hit, unless you have near zero mits, are in shadow(so #### for mits), have positional(which if the person they are fighting is good, wont happen unless they are stunned), and the warg dev's. sure, wargs are powerful right now, not broken though, they still get blown up by good freeps.
edit: would love to know who fought who, as well. who was the warg, and who were the champ, guard and burg?
Stop giving out our secrets. We don't need RKs learning that our damage goes to #### when they stop letting us hit them in the back.
Geändert von TimidObserver (Mar 21 2012 um 03:06 PM Uhr)
Encountered an audacity-heavy rk recently. It took 2 wargs going full dps and several minutes to take him down, with pounces/silences... At the end of the battle both wargs were nearly out of power and the battle had been won only due to a couple of lucky dev crits in a row. (this was with a flayer and a shadow warg, flayer toppling/rooting at times while the shadow was going full dps from behind)
Except for hunters, freeps need not worry about single wargs. Warg packs are of course dangerous to soloers, but so are burg packs and we still see a lot of burg packs (warg pack vs burg pack is fun now though ).
Before the update wargs more or less had to run in packs to be able to get kills, and likely many wargs will still pack for a while yet while getting used to the new skills. But given time I think you'll see more solo wargs again since soloing has once more become viable for a warg.
On the 2 stances for wargs:
Flayer warg is a bit tank-like with high mitigations but really low dps, while shadow warg is basically a glass cannon. Shadow wargs do have significantly higher dps, but still I've only seen 2K+ hits on npcs. Highest I've seen on a freep was 1,4K and that was unusually high and on a light armor.
A full dps-traited Shadow warg will be able to deal quite a bit of damage, but going full dps traits will leave the warg with 9K health (same or slightly lower than a well-geared freep) and in a dps race against a freep, the freep should still win.
There is a warg skill now that significantly reduces armor of a freep for 10 secs. However, if a warg uses that skill then just run out of the yellow puddle. You'll still have a small debuff but much lesser than if you stayed in that area.
Duskdancer, warg: If found please return to Gwairin, lvl 65 hunter in Evernight
Dawnsinger, warg: Currently working as police dog in Moors with the Angmar Inquisition
On the 2 stances for wargs:
Flayer warg is a bit tank-like with high mitigations but really low dps, while shadow warg is basically a glass cannon. Shadow wargs do have significantly higher dps, but still I've only seen 2K+ hits on npcs. Highest I've seen on a freep was 1,4K and that was unusually high and on a light armor.
Mark territory first with Shadow Pack debuff (-3K Mits) and a warg can hit for 2K
Did this on a Hunter this week , first 2K hit ever on a Freep
1 vs 1, no other buffs/debuffs except Shadow Pack + Positional damage (Claws to the back)
Try this in Shadow stance : Pounce from stealth, Shadow Pack, Eye Rake, Claws
Geändert von PurebloodWorg (Mar 21 2012 um 03:38 PM Uhr)
My name is Purebloodnakh, Chieftain of Saruman's Armies of the North, General of the Warg Legions, loyal servant to the true Lord, Sauron. And I will have my vengeance, in this life or the next.
Been trying that a few times. Ended up with some 2K crits, but sadly the yellow puddle really alerts every freep in the area that you're about and they can usually see from the location of the puddle who you're going to go for.
That said, thx for the tip.
Duskdancer, warg: If found please return to Gwairin, lvl 65 hunter in Evernight
Dawnsinger, warg: Currently working as police dog in Moors with the Angmar Inquisition
Lots of discussion on this topic....can anyone supply some numbers.
1) B/P/E or not.....what is the DPS of a shadow warg? - Is it too high versus survivability in that stance?
2) With the introduction of finesse, how many of those skills were actually b/p/e in a fight versus a high ranked warg (outside TnG, Pledge)? - my assumption is a very small % - especially for light armors and champs (fervour). If my assumption is correct then the addition of a few hits into a fight that may have been b/p/e before would not result in a large increase in DPS in a typical fight.
Bottom line: Shadow gives up survivability for dps/spike. Doesn't really matter how the DPS comes about - just a question on whether the DPS is appropriate keeping in mind the eventually reduction in DPS with audacity. Guards are not likely in a bad place (similar morale and better mits then shadow - I would assume flayer is a better stance for guard/warg fights), and burgs have lots of other tools at their disposal. WRT packs....many>one = wai?
1) DPS is very high, using a plugin, against squishies (rk/hunter/mini) in long fights, I can hit over 1000 dps. In normal fights, I tend to average anywhere from 600 - 800 dps.
2) Almost nothing is b/p/e regardless of TnG or Pledge against any of those 4 skills while in shadow.
We are extremely squishy in Shadow, but atm, I don't think that that squishyness is as squishy as it needs to be for this kind of dps. I'd say that we need to either lose about 5% dps off of shadow or lose 3% - 5% of our survivability while in shadow to make it an even trade. I can trounce most burgs (and other squishies) now while in shadow without losing over 1/2 my health (I have 11.3k atm). As for heavies, I always use flayer since we do need the extra mits and bubble to fight them.
As for warg packs, I can't speak since I don't run in them.
1) DPS is very high, using a plugin, against squishies (rk/hunter/mini) in long fights, I can hit over 1000 dps. In normal fights, I tend to average anywhere from 600 - 800 dps.
2) Almost nothing is b/p/e regardless of TnG or Pledge against any of those 4 skills while in shadow.
We are extremely squishy in Shadow, but atm, I don't think that that squishyness is as squishy as it needs to be for this kind of dps. I'd say that we need to either lose about 5% dps off of shadow or lose 3% - 5% of our survivability while in shadow to make it an even trade. I can trounce most burgs (and other squishies) now while in shadow without losing over 1/2 my health (I have 11.3k atm). As for heavies, I always use flayer since we do need the extra mits and bubble to fight them.
As for warg packs, I can't speak since I don't run in them.
Two different occasions now, I've had a single warg pounce and burn me from 8.1k to under 3k in the duration of the pounce. Mind you, even after the kd expires I still have DoTs on me that will do 1-1.5k in the next 5-10 secondsif the warg did nothing else.
If it wasn't for the the ability to do stupid amounts of self heals Id have no chance. I was basically at 2k before I could do one single skill where as wargs were at 11k+. Once wargs figure out the DPS rotation light armoured freeps without high amounts of audacity will be fast fight infamy the majority of the time.
Two shadow wargs on a light armoured solo target..lolz, just hit "retreat" and smile. A skilled shadow warg using a brand is going to be a nightmare to deal with.
Geändert von doug01 (Mar 21 2012 um 04:38 PM Uhr)
"...FF is still the best server period, its like the Texas of Lotro"-Bace
I can safely say that warg fights are terrifying again for me as a light armor and a soloer.
I fought 2 good wargs last night and got badly beaten by one (he is an excellent player) because I was at ~1k health as I finally came out of the initial CC
I don't normally heal in 1v1s. But I will be healing now with good wargs, otherwise it would be no contest (assuming they got a pounce on me and kept positional).
No warg should be complaining about being weak now. If they are, it's a LTP thing
At the same time, wargs should be giving us some of the best fights out there 1v1 IMO.
♦ R13 Minstrel ♦ Guardians of the Dagorlad ♦ Jaiyne ♦
1) DPS is very high, using a plugin, against squishies (rk/hunter/mini) in long fights, I can hit over 1000 dps. In normal fights, I tend to average anywhere from 600 - 800 dps.
Do you know if the targets you were fighting had higher levels of audacity? - that will bring your numbers down. As a comp I recall the SOP tree test thread having DPS cappies pulling 800+ iirc. Guess we need comps to know where the 600-800 (or less with audacity?) sits.
Zitat von Samus1111111
2) Almost nothing is b/p/e regardless of TnG or Pledge against any of those 4 skills while in shadow.
Wasn't the point I was asking - I was assuming that even without shadow, with a high rank/finesse creep, most classes (outside TnG/Pledge use) were not b/p/e a high % of these skills to begin with anyways. So the b/p/e avoidance itself is prolly not the culprit of increased dps (outside burgs). Big dps increase is prolly more attributable to claws cd reduction. (ie. I'm wondering if QQ might be about wrong aspect of skill set - but I don't know the answer, was just curious)
Zitat von Samus1111111
We are extremely squishy in Shadow, but atm, I don't think that that squishyness is as squishy as it needs to be for this kind of dps. I'd say that we need to either lose about 5% dps off of shadow or lose 3% - 5% of our survivability while in shadow to make it an even trade. I can trounce most burgs (and other squishies) now while in shadow without losing over 1/2 my health (I have 11.3k atm). As for heavies, I always use flayer since we do need the extra mits and bubble to fight them.
I note you have over 40k infamy earned since U6, so with quests subsidies on top of that I presume you have a decent audacity rating already? Did burgs use KO...or are they popping TnG still....I'm finding 80% still seem to pop TnG (old habbits?). I'm wondering if gambler is better set up these days for burgs versus shadow warg - debuff your dps and increase survivability. Though I leave it the burg community for advice there.
I would imagine creeps will have the audacity edge as freeps wait till they have more complete armor sets before making the full change. On top of straight damage reduction, audacity will also reduce the time that a freep is stunned and giving positional (if they don't already camera turn)
Seems like shadow wargs are tough versus squishies.
The 2K hit line of reasoning was good till you brought up bubble and last stand, cause creeps have the defiler absorb (like guard shield walll) and warleader bubbles, speaking of which who doesn't complain about 1 vs 1ing a ranked defiler or trying to take down a rank WL with 18K morale, about the only thing more annoying than 2 WLs bubbling each other is 2 minstrels doing the same, except every creep in the world complains about mini DPS and ranged damage, I know I do.
There are three classes that can bubble creep side. Wargs can't bubble anyone else, and defilers and WLs can't bubble themselves. WLs bubbles are ok (if you have the extended version) but with a long CD. Defiler absorb doesn't always go off, all the defliers I've talked to say it goes off as often as it doesn't. Every freep bubble works every time and all but one or two classes don't have bubbles, but wait, there's more, now there is a ring which is usable in the moors which has a bubble, and ALL classes can wear it...please. This is why I brought it up. Last Stand, the Warden equiv, guards using shield wall...creeps have nothing close. Guards and Wardens have just as much morale if they come out and tank, but they prefer OP so they have less, WLs cannot DPS like a guard or warden, and when focus fired, which happens a lot, go down a lot faster. Yet, this thread is about a class that got some loving, and deserved it and now that they can do what they are supposed to do, the freeps QQ...let's see, RKs can throw out 2-6k damage with one skill, and 2k with others...and QQ about a 2k crit...wow.
There are three classes that can bubble creep side. Wargs can't bubble anyone else, and defilers and WLs can't bubble themselves. WLs bubbles are ok (if you have the extended version) but with a long CD. Defiler absorb doesn't always go off, all the defliers I've talked to say it goes off as often as it doesn't. Every freep bubble works every time and all but one or two classes don't have bubbles, but wait, there's more, now there is a ring which is usable in the moors which has a bubble, and ALL classes can wear it...please. This is why I brought it up. Last Stand, the Warden equiv, guards using shield wall...creeps have nothing close. Guards and Wardens have just as much morale if they come out and tank, but they prefer OP so they have less, WLs cannot DPS like a guard or warden, and when focus fired, which happens a lot, go down a lot faster. Yet, this thread is about a class that got some loving, and deserved it and now that they can do what they are supposed to do, the freeps QQ...let's see, RKs can throw out 2-6k damage with one skill, and 2k with others...and QQ about a 2k crit...wow.
Not that I'm disagreeing with the spirit of your post, but the Great River clickies don't work in the moors, unless they're bugged.
Two different occasions now, I've had a single warg pounce and burn me from 8.1k to under 3k in the duration of the pounce. Mind you, even after the kd expires I still have DoTs on me that will do 1-1.5k in the next 5-10 secondsif the warg did nothing else.
If it wasn't for the the ability to do stupid amounts of self heals Id have no chance. I was basically at 2k before I could do one single skill where as wargs were at 11k+. Once wargs figure out the DPS rotation light armoured freeps without high amounts of audacity will be fast fight infamy the majority of the time.
Two shadow wargs on a light armoured solo target..lolz, just hit "retreat" and smile. A skilled shadow warg using a brand is going to be a nightmare to deal with.
Well, in shadow we only have 1 DoT, not sure on the exact numbers, but I know that the DoT does not hit for 1-1.5k. It's more like 1.5k max (ignoring mits ect.) over 20 seconds. But yes, this is why I think that either the dps or survivability should be knocked down a bit in Shadow. But then again, we really need to wait until most people have r7 audacity or w/e rank that freeps want to use due to armor sets and stuff.
Also, in a 2v1 do you actually expect that you should be able to take them? Maybe in the past, but now that things (at least wargs) are a bit more balanced, that should really stop happening. Maybe you'll get 1 kill, but I don't think that anyone (freep or creep) should be able to win if they are outnumbered unless their opponents are just plain bad (or they are engaged in friendly npcs).
Zitat von chrisCML
Do you know if the targets you were fighting had higher levels of audacity? - that will bring your numbers down. As a comp I recall the SOP tree test thread having DPS cappies pulling 800+ iirc. Guess we need comps to know where the 600-800 (or less with audacity?) sits.
I don't know for sure how much audacity that the freeps I fight have, but I'd guess that it's pretty low. Anywhere from 1 (if they haven't earned/equiped any of the armor) to 3 or 4.
Zitat von chrisCML
Wasn't the point I was asking - I was assuming that even without shadow, with a high rank/finesse creep, most classes (outside TnG/Pledge use) were not b/p/e a high % of these skills to begin with anyways. So the b/p/e avoidance itself is prolly not the culprit of increased dps (outside burgs). Big dps increase is prolly more attributable to claws cd reduction. (ie. I'm wondering if QQ might be about wrong aspect of skill set - but I don't know the answer, was just curious)
Actually, there is an enormous difference in the number of attacks b/p/e between U5 with finesse and U6 with finesse + shadow. With finesse + shadow, my attacks (the 4 that are modified by shadow) almost never get b/p/e (probably less than 5%). This is partly due to finesse, but the major difference is that while in shadow, the 4 skills I originally mentioned always act as "from stealth". Apparently, there's some wierd calculation that is done and it basically ignores b/p/e for "from stealth" skills. Also, these 4 skills have higher base damage than normal, get bonus damage since they are "from stealth", even more bonus damage if you are behind the target, and even more damage if you crit (which if you slot the trait "Element of Surprise" you get +20% crit rate "from stealth" allowing me to easily reach 35% crit rate in fights if not more). So all of those bonuses to damage allow these skills (mainly claws and maul since they have the lowest CD) to do massive damage.
Zitat von chrisCML
I note you have over 40k infamy earned since U6, so with quests subsidies on top of that I presume you have a decent audacity rating already? Did burgs use KO...or are they popping TnG still....I'm finding 80% still seem to pop TnG (old habbits?). I'm wondering if gambler is better set up these days for burgs versus shadow warg - debuff your dps and increase survivability. Though I leave it the burg community for advice there.
Yes, my audacity is r6, almost 7. Most burgs still use TnG (about 80% or higher is probably right), but I don't expect this to last. KO is definitely the better choice against a shadow warg, but I'm not sure how much of a difference it will really make, 1) because I haven't fought many burgs that use it and 2) wargs can just kite until it is over or just dps through it. As for gambler being a better setup, I can't say since I don't know a ton about burg setups.
Zitat von chrisCML
I would imagine creeps will have the audacity edge as freeps wait till they have more complete armor sets before making the full change. On top of straight damage reduction, audacity will also reduce the time that a freep is stunned and giving positional (if they don't already camera turn)
Yep, totally agree which is why I'm trying to reserve definitive judgement until a lot of people have r7 audacity.
Zitat von chrisCML
Seems like shadow wargs are tough versus squishies.
Definitely, but not impossible. I've been trounced by at least 1 of every squishy class, but I guess that that really relies more on player skill than trait lines or rotations (although they can definitely help).
Geändert von Samus1111111 (Mar 21 2012 um 05:37 PM Uhr)
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Re: Wargs are broken, please fix
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