i play creep full time almost and i agree warg dps is to high.
just wanted to my chance now to say: The dev that updated the warg, i start to dislike you.
why can you do something right ffs ? everytime there is a problem.
Whats broken is you. Your redundant tears havent been answered in the RK forums and here you are, again crying the same tune. Maybe you werent around prior but RK's were very powerful and wargs were crushed day after day, month after month.
Welcome, its now your turn to suffer.
Generally I concur with these kinds of statements but realistically, let's get real. So many of those players stop playing and come back after a nerf, switch to the flavor of the month "OP class" themselves or simply no longer play the game.
I haven't forgotten the Haiku's but so many have moved onto play Siths or PVE land till things suit them and they come back or they run around with a pocket healer or two wherever they go.
Who hasn't seen an increase in the amount of spiders in the moors since U6.
Pre-RoI R8 warg Brandywine R7 BA Brandywine R5 WL Brandywine R5 Warg Landroval R6 warg Vilya R5 BA Vilya
What an incredibly ignorant thing to say. Instead of wanting balance (or as close to it as possible that this game can offer), you are happy the pendulum is slowly leaning toward creep side. You're no better than the people you accuse of playing FOTM classes because they were buffed up.
On topic though with the thread, wargs are in a pretty good spot. Still not sure if they should be hitting their skills as if from stealth all the time or whatever someone proposed, but other than that and the 10s knockdown, they are worthy opponents again.
You obviously have no idea what you are talking about, ive been railing for months about the inbalance of the moors due to the ridiculous damage done by freeps from the roi expansion. At no point did I advocate for a nerf of freeps, I advocated for a buff to creeps.
Yep its his turn to die, but its still in no way balanced at all. His Epic conclusion will still crit for 5k plus 5-10 times a night, my claws will do 2k once a month. No sir, you are the incredibly ignorant one here. Nice troll though, style points as you attacked but didnt directly go for the player, not bad.
That's your best counter retort? A warg accusing a champion of running away?
I'll assume you think 10s knockdowns and perma roots are perfectly fine then. And proceed to lol. All aboard the martyr train. Revenge is way better then balance!
I didnt accuse you of anything, I just illustrated the likely scenario in which the bubble would garner you victory, since thats the vein you took the conversation. Perma roots are a problem, I concede that fully, I dont like it. 10s knock down is to long, ill concede that.
But I'll fight like hell to keep both as long as freeps are doing 5 times the damage on criticals. Your not going to have your cake and eat it too, youve had ez mode long enough. Ive done the 5 second lose 11k morale shuffle long enough...
Before U6 Champs were able to kill Wargs with spamming brutal strikes in a 1 on 1 .. Now nearly every Champ need to use CD´s to kill my Warg and most of the time they still loose. Finally u need skill (movement for example) and no "I Win buttons" .. and because of this Wargs are broken? Sure dude..
Btw its funny that a RK opened that topic. Maybe a Burg should have done it, I cant kill everything in the 5sec riddle anymore, hope burgs get a buff soon ..
I gotta say, outside of arranged 1 vs 1s, for all the talk of skill, man I gotta laugh when people bring up skill. The MAJORITY of the time moors deaths are a result of one side or the other ganking or zerging. I've been on the receiving end on my creeps and freeps. The people most often pointed out are those that charge in zergs and flee at the first sign of trouble and camp in a keep or npcs.
Pre-RoI R8 warg Brandywine R7 BA Brandywine R5 WL Brandywine R5 Warg Landroval R6 warg Vilya R5 BA Vilya
RKs are, and have been in a GREAT place. Post U6 they are in better shape than they were pre-U6.
RK should do very well against anything solo barring unlucky non crits, misses, resists, random number laws against you, or that that player has a ton of skill and just owned you. Especially in a 1v1 circle where you have the option to fight or not fight when you want to.
The warg pack pics are hysterical. Unfortunately something we are going to have to live with for a while. I hope it's only a while and then they split up and flex their solo muscle.
If they do get nerfed I hope it's extremely carefully. Wargs are alot of fun to fight right now. I've talked to a few warg players who have NEVER once, NEVER fought solo and they said they finally feel like they can 1v1 now. But I'm stupid, I kinda care if the other side has fun too.
Also, at least on my server, creeps have been doing nothing other than farming comms for gear while the freeps either do the same on their low ranked creep or get their fill of the new content and get their rep and gear. Prolly 7 audacity Warg.
+ rep
i don't want wargs nerfed into the ground, but when you make them that much more powerful, and they still pack up it's kinda sad, forget who the champ and guard was, but the burg was nuparu, otherwise known as the bane of wargs.
thorgrum...... pronounce your jihad on me all you want, try coming to brandywine first though, and just so you know the name to look for: look for Kalymnor stormcaller. but i bet you're too scared to come to big bad brandywine.
i didn't rank my rk in the OP rk days, i came in afterwards, and i also have a r6 spider (nearly r7) which i ranked solo, so believe me, i know what it is to be oneshotted.
btw the zerg pics were hilarious XD especially the spider ones
wanna address more stuff but haven't the time
You will find that conversational range increases dramatically when you talk about what you think, rather than what you know.
Hello reader~
I, Lovepounce, am the warg this runekeeper - Kalymnor from brandywine. Refers to.
I can tell you that yes I did melt a burglar, and a couple rks. They are squishy classes so I bursted them in opening, nothing new or broken about burst dps.
The champ was easy too, it was a bad champ.
The guard ~ zonflux, had a good 2 fights with me, one that I won, and one that he won. The one that the OP watched was the guard beating me.
Just going to say this, kalymnor your lil "not a good warg" bull#### ain't gonna pass unheard. I know damn well I am one of the better wargs on the server. You can consider yourself one of my priority targets now MF.
♥-ღ°•๑۩۩๑ •°♥ ~ Lovepounce ~ R11 Arctic Wolf ~ ♥-ღ°•๑۩۩๑ •°♥
๑۩۩๑ R0 ~ R8 34 Days ๑۩۩๑ R9 ~ R10 27 Days ๑۩۩๑ R10 ~ R11 16 Days ๑۩۩๑
Please do something about the stupidly high Burg dps and mitigations, they are very broken,
I realise i'll get flamed by Burg devotee's for this but someone has to say it.
i watched a Burg in a 1v1 circle today DESTROY our server's best wargs, reavers, and in a fight that lasted well over 5 minutes.... WL, the warg died in less than a minute and the reaver didn't even last that long, in all cases the Burg didn't even get to half health, it wasn't that the Burg was good (though they were competent) it was that they just weren't taking any appreciable damage and were hitting for up to 2k at a time.
I play an Defiler, and Defilers are finally in a good spot after U6, but i think everyone will agree that against a Burg like that, it really counts for little.
what i report is a solo Burg, but when they pack up, you can't live you just can't, there is no fight, there is only 2 second death and it's time to leave the board for soloers.
i understand many who read this will be biased, i don't care just fix the Burgs
Just mirrored things to give you a bit of perspective from the other side.
lol i actually agree, remember i have a creep too
You will find that conversational range increases dramatically when you talk about what you think, rather than what you know.
Hello reader~
I, Lovepounce, am the warg this runekeeper - Kalymnor from brandywine. Refers to.
I can tell you that yes I did melt a burglar, and a couple rks. They are squishy classes so I bursted them in opening, nothing new or broken about burst dps.
The champ was easy too, it was a bad champ.
The guard ~ zonflux, had a good 2 fights with me, one that I won, and one that he won. The one that the OP watched was the guard beating me.
Just going to say this, kalymnor your lil "not a good warg" bull#### ain't gonna pass unheard. I know damn well I am one of the better wargs on the server. You can consider yourself one of my priority targets now MF.
not meant as an insult buddy, but i haven't heard of you before last week, are you a namechange?
*edit
ahhh just read your sig now ik who you are, I upgrade you to good, but stylen and snoopy are still stronger, and there are lots of other wargs that are nasty too, gitcha, pokerjoker, and so on, believe me i know em all, been jumped thousands of times.
i really wasn't meaning it as an insult, since i happen to respect you for not running every time a fight doesn't go your way, but don't think i'll back down if you come after me lol
Last edited by loki84; Mar 20 2012 at 06:15 PM.
You will find that conversational range increases dramatically when you talk about what you think, rather than what you know.
+ rep
i don't want wargs nerfed into the ground, but when you make them that much more powerful, and they still pack up it's kinda sad, forget who the champ and guard was, but the burg was nuparu, otherwise known as the bane of wargs.
thorgrum...... pronounce your jihad on me all you want, try coming to brandywine first though, and just so you know the name to look for: look for Kalymnor stormcaller. but i bet you're too scared to come to big bad brandywine.
i didn't rank my rk in the OP rk days, i came in afterwards, and i also have a r6 spider (nearly r7) which i ranked solo, so believe me, i know what it is to be oneshotted.
btw the zerg pics were hilarious XD especially the spider ones
wanna address more stuff but haven't the time
didnt answer the question. who was it he fought?
zonflux, i know is the guard, and ist the best on BW. who were the burg/champ?
The root isn't unbreakable and the knockdown can be broken by Store Brands/certain skills.
For all intents and purposes it's mean to be unbreakable outside obvious p2w and bugged circumstances.
Except, the Champ usually pops their 45s Sprint (w/ the bubble up) and runs for the nearest NPC/Rez.
And isn't your "I Win" ISB->Remorseless? Haven't heard too many Champs complaining about getting a guaranteed 3.5-6k Dev... just sayin.
1) why is the only counter argument here "derpa champs can pop alot their CDs and run away"? That's not pvp, or even relevant.
2) ISB isn't a guaranteed hit, it can be evaded. Furthermore those are pre-update numbers, get a little audacity and see if a champ can even hit you for 3k win a high mastery build and a 2nd ager. I'm sure all the 13k+ reavers, warleaders and defilers would be astounded by a skill that dropped a whole...15% of their morale pool.
Last edited by zaskoda; Mar 20 2012 at 06:06 PM.
posting on a banned account. GET AT ME JESUS, WHAT NOW?!
Hello reader~
Just going to say this, kalymnor your lil "not a good warg" bull#### ain't gonna pass unheard. I know damn well I am one of the better wargs on the server. You can consider yourself one of my priority targets now MF.
"...FF is still the best server period, its like the Texas of Lotro"-Bace
2) ISH isn't a guaranteed hit, it can be evaded. Furthermore those are pre-update numbers, get a little audacity and see if a champ can even hit you for 3k win a high mastery build and a 2nd ager. I'm sure all the 13k+ reavers, warleaders and defilers would be astounded by a skill that dropped a whole...15% of their morale pool.
My 14.5k reaver getting smacked with a 3k remorseless drops his like 20.6%, not to mention the increased crit from another one which happens more often than it should.
You want some big damage how about me regularly hitting 600-800 on champs with a dev strike. So you're looking at 7.5%-10% regularly from my big hit.
I just wanted to point out what everyone else was too scared to for fear of reprisal. sigh i knew this would turn into a flamewar
to that end:
thorgrum, i'm calling you out, transfer to brandywine, you did promise me a jihad, or live forever in cowardly shame.
also i notice you playing your rk in the godly rk part of history, ok thorgrum, now you're on your warg, you started once rk's got nerfed right? that's fine i expect people to play easier classes rather than sticking to one.
c'mon thorgrum don't get flunkies to do it, i'm sure you got some flunkies on bw, do it yourself, i triple dog dare ya!
tell me your creeps name and transfer, i really wanna see what you got to bring to the table
You will find that conversational range increases dramatically when you talk about what you think, rather than what you know.
I gotta say, outside of arranged 1 vs 1s, for all the talk of skill, man I gotta laugh when people bring up skill. The MAJORITY of the time moors deaths are a result of one side or the other ganking or zerging. I've been on the receiving end on my creeps and freeps. The people most often pointed out are those that charge in zergs and flee at the first sign of trouble and camp in a keep or npcs.
I was solely talking about 1 vs 1s cause I´m mostly solo. Wasnt really clear in my post, of course 90% is about ganking and zerging and u cant talk about skill in this context
Balance is still big in favour of freeps.
That has not really changed.
True, grouped/raided freeps with all the buffs, damage and if they have equal or near equal #s, assuming they're played adequately. Have been in some raids with new players, to encourage their entry into PVMP, to the moors who didn't understand their class (shield wall, in harms way, etc.) or FF.
Solo is a bit more challenging as creep groups/raids and warg packs will either eat you up or make you burn CDs depending.
Pre-RoI R8 warg Brandywine R7 BA Brandywine R5 WL Brandywine R5 Warg Landroval R6 warg Vilya R5 BA Vilya
My 14.5k reaver getting smacked with a 3k remorseless drops his like 20.6%, not to mention the increased crit from another one which happens more often than it should.
You want some big damage how about me regularly hitting 600-800 on champs with a dev strike. So you're looking at 7.5%-10% regularly from my big hit.
Freeps have higher damage, etc etc. welcome to the game. Also, dying rage.
posting on a banned account. GET AT ME JESUS, WHAT NOW?!
True, grouped/raided freeps with all the buffs, damage and if they have equal or near equal #s, assuming they're played adequately. Have been in some raids with new players, to encourage their entry into PVMP, to the moors who didn't understand their class (shield wall, in harms way, etc.) or FF.
Solo is a bit more challenging as creep groups/raids and warg packs will either eat you up or make you burn CDs depending.
QFT it really is mostly about zerg, rarely skill comes into it, and even if it does, it's still a numbers game.
You will find that conversational range increases dramatically when you talk about what you think, rather than what you know.
You obviously have no idea what you are talking about, ive been railing for months about the inbalance of the moors due to the ridiculous damage done by freeps from the roi expansion. At no point did I advocate for a nerf of freeps, I advocated for a buff to creeps.
Yep its his turn to die, but its still in no way balanced at all. His Epic conclusion will still crit for 5k plus 5-10 times a night, my claws will do 2k once a month. No sir, you are the incredibly ignorant one here. Nice troll though, style points as you attacked but didnt directly go for the player, not bad.
And a buff has came in their direction now, a pretty good one at that. Stupid people will QQ all they want and scream IMBA when it shouldn't be, but you mistake me calling you out for how you called someone else out for trolling. Nowhere in my post should it have even been interpreted as trolling.
It's just great seeing people arguing they want balance to be restored (if it's ever actually even been there), but when they receive the upper hand in some situations, they disregard everything they stood for before. In a way you are being slightly hypocritical.
Brandywine seems to excel not in actual in-game skirmishes, but rather at the production of a steady, unwavering stream of PvMP rant. This is can be said of both sides, and is outlined particularly well by some of the more entertaining threads in the BW 'Moors forum.
Originally Posted by loki84
i understand many who read this will be biased, i don't care just fix the wargs
Getting on topic, this one sentence quite frankly discredits the entire thread. If you expect other players to regard your input then you must return the favor, and not start off an entire discussion by automatically dismissing any opinions contradictory to yours.
I agree that Turbine could have done a lot of things better than they are now, in light of the fact that today LOTRO is simply not able to equally elevate every demographic of PvPers (solo, group, induction classes vs melee etc etc.) One player's choice of gameplay should not compromise another's, but yet it does and the solution is not to simply apply singular modifications that fit in with your specific demands at a given point in time.
QFT it really is mostly about zerg, rarely skill comes into it, and even if it does, it's still a numbers game.
Yep, I've seen exceptions - guard beating 1 rank 8 reaver and 3 rank 1-4 reavers/spiders flipping RoP and a mini beating 4 on WTAB or a rank 9 WL with p2w skills holding off 3 freeps forever and a day till help arrives but generally whoever has the most #s especially with heals, wins.
Over and over I see people forget to attack the healers first if they're ungrouped, what's up with that? LOL (creep or freep side)
Pre-RoI R8 warg Brandywine R7 BA Brandywine R5 WL Brandywine R5 Warg Landroval R6 warg Vilya R5 BA Vilya
Brandywine seems to excel not in actual in-game skirmishes, but rather at the production of a steady, unwavering stream of PvMP rant. This is can be said of both sides, and is outlined particularly well by some of the more entertaining threads in the BW 'Moors forum.
Getting on topic, this one sentence quite frankly discredits the entire thread. If you expect other players to regard your input then you must return the favor, and not start off an entire discussion by automatically dismissing any opinions contradictory to yours.
I agree that Turbine could have done a lot of things better than they are now, in light of the fact that today LOTRO is simply not able to equally elevate every demographic of PvPers (solo, group, induction classes vs melee etc etc.) One player's choice of gameplay should not compromise another's, but yet it does and the solution is not to simply apply singular modifications that fit in with your specific demands at a given point in time.
You make a point but I will counter that point by saying, this produces people flipping to the "winning side" aka flavor of the month. Seeing tons more spiders and a return of the warg popularity again. On a server where creeps are needed, this is good stuff, on servers where creeps outnumber freeps it's a bad thing. I remember when BAs flames were unpottable and BA was flavor of the month and low and behold after RoI it became so again. Honestly, where's the love for the reavers?
Pre-RoI R8 warg Brandywine R7 BA Brandywine R5 WL Brandywine R5 Warg Landroval R6 warg Vilya R5 BA Vilya
You make a point but I will counter that point by saying, this produces people flipping to the "winning side" aka flavor of the month. Seeing tons more spiders and a return of the warg popularity again. On a server where creeps are needed, this is good stuff, on servers where creeps outnumber freeps it's a bad thing. I remember when BAs flames were unpottable and BA was flavor of the month and low and behold after RoI it became so again. Honestly, where's the love for the reavers?
You do make a point, but just quoting my post doesn't mean yours actually addresses mine - at all, in this case. It's completely lacking context.
Are you trying to suggest that wargs and spiders need to be nerfed because you claim there are more of them now? Should we continue this line of thought from the opposite side, all the minstrels, wardens and rune-keepers out there should be nerfed as well.
Both of these arguments fall under the 'demanding changes that would suit me as an individual player' category, which I believe I covered rather comprehensively - and more importantly objectively - in my original message.
Looks like everyone that quit playing a BA started a weaver.
except that over the three days after the update, the spike in the weaver population diminished back down to the historic trend line: vet weavers came back, new weavers got back on their warg/ba. This is undoubtedly due to the new skills being rank gated and not available on the store.
"Spiders CC is unbearable... it's just as bad as loremasters" ~ Brodster
It's interesting to see the initial spike in weavers, followed by a steady decline.
My guess is that since the new skills are rank gated, and not available on the store, it is preventing a full on weaver explosion.
Seems wargs and BAs are on the rise.
Wargs have always been around 30% of the pop and if you look back over the last 3 years has bumped into the mid 30s before. Might also be seeing a bump in wargs for comms map runs as it is prolly the fastest/safest low/no rank toon to roll on to run around the map now.
Realistically with only 4 classes to choose from outside healers one would expect some concentration population wise. If creep healers had some better solo viability you may see the pop be a bit more diverse. BA pop is still comparable if not lower to hunter pop % wise.
Good news is, nobody plays wargs anyway so its not that big of an issue for soloers.
Very few Wargs, Minis, or Champs
No need to fear
My name is Purebloodnakh, Chieftain of Saruman's Armies of the North, General of the Warg Legions, loyal servant to the true Lord, Sauron. And I will have my vengeance, in this life or the next.
except that over the three days after the update, the spike in the weaver population diminished back down to the historic trend line: vet weavers came back, new weavers got back on their warg/ba. This is undoubtedly due to the new skills being rank gated and not available on the store.
Things will surely consolidate. Audacity does not really help twinking in the moors at all, so people will rather stick to their classes instead of switching. Maybe less FOTM but less flexibility and diversity. Crazy though that Wargs are the most played class in the moors by far. Even more than hunters. Pretty straightforward to play and capable also packing does not involve a lot of insight.
Spiders are if not complicated a rather complex class to play effectively though, that might put people off, in comparison to say a BA which has some kind of intuitive rotation.
Vincent van Port "Held der fliegenden Feder" R13 before 2013!
Collector of superb posts.
Please do something about the stupidly high warg dps and mitigations, they are very broken,
I realise i'll get flamed by warg devotee's for this but someone has to say it.
i watched a warg in a 1v1 circle today DESTROY our server's best burgs, champs, and in a fight that lasted well over 5 minutes.... guards, the burg died in less than a minute and the champ didn't even last that long, in all cases the warg didn't even get to half health, it wasn't that the warg was good (though they were competent) it was that they just weren't taking any appreciable damage and were hitting for up to 2k at a time.
I play an rk, and rk's are finally in a good spot after U6, but i think everyone will agree that against a warg like that, it really counts for little.
what i report is a solo warg, but when they pack up, you can't live you just can't, there is no fight, there is only 2 second death and it's time to leave the board for soloers.
i understand many who read this will be biased, i don't care just fix the wargs
An entire class is not "broken" because one experienced player managed to win a few 1v1s'.
Last edited by stoney530; Mar 20 2012 at 11:28 PM.
Freeps have higher damage, etc etc. welcome to the game. Also, dying rage.
Appreciate the welcome,
Given the amount of freep escape skills dying rage is almost useless. Classes can feign death, hips, bubble, pop huge heal cooldowns just to stay alive long enough until i die from misadventure. Most champs are going to pop a cooldown and laugh at me for 15secs.
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