Thread: Wargs are broken, please fix

Please do something about the stupidly high warg dps and mitigations, they are very broken,
I realise i'll get flamed by warg devotee's for this but someone has to say it.
i watched a warg in a 1v1 circle today DESTROY our server's best burgs, champs, and in a fight that lasted well over 5 minutes.... guards, the burg died in less than a minute and the champ didn't even last that long, in all cases the warg didn't even get to half health, it wasn't that the warg was good (though they were competent) it was that they just weren't taking any appreciable damage and were hitting for up to 2k at a time.

I play an rk, and rk's are finally in a good spot after U6, but i think everyone will agree that against a warg like that, it really counts for little.

what i report is a solo warg, but when they pack up, you can't live you just can't, there is no fight, there is only 2 second death and it's time to leave the board for soloers.

i understand many who read this will be biased, i don't care just fix the wargs

Good news is, nobody plays wargs anyway so its not that big of an issue for soloers.

Originally Posted by loki84

Please do something about the stupidly high warg dps and mitigations, they are very broken,
I realise i'll get flamed by warg devotee's for this but someone has to say it.
i watched a warg in a 1v1 circle today DESTROY our server's best burgs, champs, and in a fight that lasted well over 5 minutes.... guards, the burg died in less than a minute and the champ didn't even last that long, in all cases the warg didn't even get to half health, it wasn't that the warg was good (though they were competent) it was that they just weren't taking any appreciable damage and were hitting for up to 2k at a time.

I play an rk, and rk's are finally in a good spot after U6, but i think everyone will agree that against a warg like that, it really counts for little.

what i report is a solo warg, but when they pack up, you can't live you just can't, there is no fight, there is only 2 second death and it's time to leave the board for soloers.

i understand many who read this will be biased, i don't care just fix the wargs

Whats broken is you. Your redundant tears havent been answered in the RK forums and here you are, again crying the same tune. Maybe you werent around prior but RK's were very powerful and wargs were crushed day after day, month after month.

Welcome, its now your turn to suffer.

There are very few wargs, no need to worry about some OP warg killing you..

Originally Posted by loki84

Please do something about the stupidly high warg dps and mitigations, they are very broken,
I realise i'll get flamed by warg devotee's for this but someone has to say it.
i watched a warg in a 1v1 circle today DESTROY our server's best burgs, champs, and in a fight that lasted well over 5 minutes.... guards, the burg died in less than a minute and the champ didn't even last that long, in all cases the warg didn't even get to half health, it wasn't that the warg was good (though they were competent) it was that they just weren't taking any appreciable damage and were hitting for up to 2k at a time.

I play an rk, and rk's are finally in a good spot after U6, but i think everyone will agree that against a warg like that, it really counts for little.

what i report is a solo warg, but when they pack up, you can't live you just can't, there is no fight, there is only 2 second death and it's time to leave the board for soloers.

i understand many who read this will be biased, i don't care just fix the wargs

Lol.

Do you know how that warg was setup? What stance were they running? What rank is their audacity? Do you also know the audacity rank of the freeps they were fighting?

And the fact that you seem to have no clue how hard (or not) that a warg can hit is laughable. I want to meet the warg that is regularly critting for 2k damage.

Roll a creep, play for a few weeks, then come back here and tell us how you feel about this silly post.

Originally Posted by Thorgrum

Whats broken is you. Your redundant tears havent been answered in the RK forums and here you are, again crying the same tune. Maybe you werent around but RK's were very powerful and wargs were crushed day after day, month after month.

Welcome, its now your turn to suffer.

Sounds perfectly reasonable to me
+1 rep.

Leave broken classes broke because its only fair play.

signed,
'moors Minstrel

I imagine this thread would say Spiders are broken, please fix if this player ran into:

Originally Posted by doug01

Sounds perfectly reasonable to me
+1 rep.

Leave broken classes broke because its only fair play.

signed,
'moors Minstrel

Creeps have been under dps’d for months. Freep ROI builds that uncapped the stats gave them extremely high damage output. I maintain no nerfs to freeps, let them keep the damage. A long comes this guy who has been in tears now since the new release. Wargs got a buff, that’s what happens when ZC decides to buff a class (wouldn’t you agree mini?) so of course what does this tear ridden RK do?

He comes crying for a nerf. No go back to your dev and cry for a buff if you need it. It worked for the heals, RK forums were filled with sniffling RK’s crying poor mouth and not getting raid spots because minis were better healers.

Was the answer nerf mini’s? Nope. I have a level 75 RK Im fine in the moors but yeah I die to warg packs…. QQ nerf them now!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Originally Posted by Dyfrin

I imagine this thread would say Spiders are broken, please fix if this player ran into:

lolz...

At first I was like, whats with the BA oddball, then I was like..BAit.

My Mains a Hunter, so im well up for nerfing everything if we dont get buffed soon!

Actually, I am predicting that Wargs will get hit with the nerf bat as it seems that they are able to switch stances a bit too readily in combat, and im not sure if that was intended or not...

Regardless of Dev intentions they are certainly one of the more powerful creep classes now BUT.....

RKs, and indeed every class on both sides has had some periods when they were overly buffed, if you were not playing after MoM then you happened to miss the big RK FOTM period, but your class was shockingly OP, stealing lots of ranged KBs off me and all the other sad Hunters, and Champs were nowhere in the Creep complaints threads, everyone felt a bit sorry for them!



Bear in mind that the way it works here is this:


PvP is tweaked last in the dev cycle after an update...

1. Raise level cap, produce new PvE raids, new gear etc for Freeps.

2. Notice that whatever changes they made made some Freep classes more or less powerful than intended.

3. Devs rebalance by nerfing a few new skills on the newly OP Freep classes.

4. Devs have a look at the moors, nerf or buff Creep classes that have been made to strong/weak, and adjust Freep skills that have made certain classes to strong/weak.

******DISCLAIMER*******STEP 4 HAS OFTEN BEEN OVERLOOKED OR POORLY IMPLEMENTED******************* *

5. You have a few months of the moors working as intended - or at least in as much as they actually manage to implement it and get it to work properly...

And then we return to step 1 again!


If this is disappointing to you, get used to it - this is what we get in LOTRO PVP.....

If you were a Hunter, I´d understand your QQ

But your an RK, you say, well then L2P

I´m serious, a well-played and geared RK shouldn´t have Problems in 1on1s against any Creep class

Originally Posted by Chris91

If you were a Hunter, I´d understand your QQ

But your an RK, you say, well then L2P

I´m serious, a well-played and geared RK shouldn´t have Problems in 1on1s against any Creep class

Geared and played right, hunters can melt face this update. No reason for them to complain.

It's a good thing there have never been that many wargs then

hes just upset cause he cant 2 shots thing anymore. RK's are so powerful right now, how can you possibly complain. wargs hit nowhere near 2k a hit, unless you have near zero mits, are in shadow(so #### for mits), have positional(which if the person they are fighting is good, wont happen unless they are stunned), and the warg dev's. sure, wargs are powerful right now, not broken though, they still get blown up by good freeps.

edit: would love to know who fought who, as well. who was the warg, and who were the champ, guard and burg?

While others were posting I was nodding off at my desk, assured that the 4 20 something’s I have working for me are going to make me more money I was taken by a vision………


I saw an RK walking alone amongst the reeds, the norbogs chiming in tune almost in unison to your footsteps….

“If I had sylvan shadows I could make it to TA, I know it”

Alas, in the vision you did not and so you mounted up, and then you were stunned….

“4, 4 is the key binding for the pot”

You clicked it but the warg who stunned you disappeared, you looked around waiting, you popped on armor of the storm, nothing only the norbogs chime. You mount again, the stun immunity almost gone you move toward the dirt road and the lip of the river to make your jump, you are pounced again, your pot and armor of the storm is on cool down….

“This is it, I’m going to the rez circle”

The warg again disappears. Panic sets in as you realize you have 2 wargs in the area but they have not finished you, why?

You swim the river you remount your horse and as you climb the hill you see it, the pack….. 4 wargs in flayer, they begin to move toward you, you jump in the river to swim away, and then it happens…. You are pounced, the 4 from the hill dive in and in 5 seconds you are in the rez circle.

You’ve lived the life of a warg now, you know its pain, you’ve felt the sting of an unjust death at the hands of mob. This is the vision I had Loki, this is the pox I wish to be visited on you for all eternity. No measure of prose will save you, the hounds of mordor have been unleashed….

It’s your time to die.

Originally Posted by Thorgrum

While others were posting I was nodding off at my desk, assured that the 4 20 something’s I have working for me are going to make me more money I was taken by a vision………


I saw an RK walking alone amongst the reeds, the norbogs chiming in tune almost in unison to your footsteps….

“If I had sylvan shadows I could make it to TA, I know it”

Alas, in the vision you did not and so you mounted up, and then you were stunned….

“4, 4 is the key binding for the pot”

You clicked it but the warg who stunned you disappeared, you looked around waiting, you popped on armor of the storm, nothing only the norbogs chime. You mount again, the stun immunity almost gone you move toward the dirt road and the lip of the river to make your jump, you are pounced again, your pot and armor of the storm is on cool down….

“This is it, I’m going to the rez circle”

The warg again disappears. Panic sets in as you realize you have 2 wargs in the area but they have not finished you, why?

You swim the river you remount your horse and as you climb the hill you see it, the pack….. 4 wargs in flayer, they begin to move toward you, you jump in the river to swim away, and then it happens…. You are pounced, the 4 from the hill dive in and in 5 seconds you are in the rez circle.

You’ve lived the life of a warg now, you know its pain, you’ve felt the sting of an unjust death at the hands of mob. This is the vision I had Loki, this is the pox I wish to be visited on you for all eternity. No measure of prose will save you, the hounds of mordor have been unleashed….

It’s your time to die.

You must wait before you can spread rep around...

Originally Posted by Sezneg

You must wait before you can spread rep around...

Not sure why that deserves rep but whatever.

Orion buffed Minnies

Orion buffed Champs

Orion buffed Wargs

RKs are, and have been in a GREAT place. Post U6 they are in better shape than they were pre-U6.

RK should do very well against anything solo barring unlucky non crits, misses, resists, random number laws against you, or that that player has a ton of skill and just owned you. Especially in a 1v1 circle where you have the option to fight or not fight when you want to.

The warg pack pics are hysterical. Unfortunately something we are going to have to live with for a while. I hope it's only a while and then they split up and flex their solo muscle.

If they do get nerfed I hope it's extremely carefully. Wargs are alot of fun to fight right now. I've talked to a few warg players who have NEVER once, NEVER fought solo and they said they finally feel like they can 1v1 now. But I'm stupid, I kinda care if the other side has fun too.

Also, at least on my server, creeps have been doing nothing other than farming comms for gear while the freeps either do the same on their low ranked creep or get their fill of the new content and get their rep and gear. Prolly 7 audacity Warg.

Those of you asking for nerfs have no idea what a slippery slope you tread. Or whatever the proper saying is

No one likes to get nerfed - but it also sucks to have to fight nerfed toons; to fight an opponent that you know is weaker because the game makes them that way - even if they're an epically good player.

If you're a player worth anything at all, you will want to fight powerful opponents, not nerfed ones with borked mitigations like they used to be.

Originally Posted by Gillianrial

Those of you asking for nerfs have no idea what a slippery slope you tread. Or whatever the proper saying is

No one likes to get nerfed - but it also sucks to have to fight nerfed toons; to fight an opponent that you know is weaker because the game makes them that way - even if they're an epically good player.

If you're a player worth anything at all, you will want to fight powerful opponents, not nerfed ones with borked mitigations like they used to be.

Now there's a post that deserves rep.

A 10s knockdown and unbreakable root have no place in pvp. Otherwise wargs seem fine.

Originally Posted by zaskoda

A 10s knockdown and unbreakable root have no place in pvp. Otherwise wargs seem fine.

Neither do bubbles, otherwise champs are fine.

Originally Posted by Thorgrum

Neither do bubbles, otherwise champs are fine.

Yeah, nothing says I win like 15 seconds of 3k morale that doesn't even work half the time. /lol

Originally Posted by zaskoda

Yeah, nothing says I win like 15 seconds of 3k morale that doesn't even work half the time. /lol

Nah, its the couragous sprint away to NPC afterward that probably win the day for you....

No matter, if we are going to start swinging the nerf bat randomly, lets swing for the fences and nerf the high DPS classes last thing they need is survivability and damage output right? I mean, you'd be able to play without the bubbles im sure...

Careful, because if the PvP language begins to evolve into "nerfs" for creeps the flood of tears that will follow for nerfing freep classes might overwhelm the hoardale. Slippery slope indeed

Originally Posted by Thorgrum

Welcome, its now your turn to suffer.

What an incredibly ignorant thing to say. Instead of wanting balance (or as close to it as possible that this game can offer), you are happy the pendulum is slowly leaning toward creep side. You're no better than the people you accuse of playing FOTM classes because they were buffed up.

On topic though with the thread, wargs are in a pretty good spot. Still not sure if they should be hitting their skills as if from stealth all the time or whatever someone proposed, but other than that and the 10s knockdown, they are worthy opponents again.

Originally Posted by loki84

Please do something about the stupidly high warg dps and mitigations, they are very broken,
I realise i'll get flamed by warg devotee's for this but someone has to say it.
i watched a warg in a 1v1 circle today DESTROY our server's best burgs, champs, and in a fight that lasted well over 5 minutes.... guards, the burg died in less than a minute and the champ didn't even last that long, in all cases the warg didn't even get to half health, it wasn't that the warg was good (though they were competent) it was that they just weren't taking any appreciable damage and were hitting for up to 2k at a time.

I play an rk, and rk's are finally in a good spot after U6, but i think everyone will agree that against a warg like that, it really counts for little.

what i report is a solo warg, but when they pack up, you can't live you just can't, there is no fight, there is only 2 second death and it's time to leave the board for soloers.

i understand many who read this will be biased, i don't care just fix the wargs

Please do something about the stupidly high Burg dps and mitigations, they are very broken,
I realise i'll get flamed by Burg devotee's for this but someone has to say it.
i watched a Burg in a 1v1 circle today DESTROY our server's best wargs, reavers, and in a fight that lasted well over 5 minutes.... WL, the warg died in less than a minute and the reaver didn't even last that long, in all cases the Burg didn't even get to half health, it wasn't that the Burg was good (though they were competent) it was that they just weren't taking any appreciable damage and were hitting for up to 2k at a time.

I play an Defiler, and Defilers are finally in a good spot after U6, but i think everyone will agree that against a Burg like that, it really counts for little.

what i report is a solo Burg, but when they pack up, you can't live you just can't, there is no fight, there is only 2 second death and it's time to leave the board for soloers.

i understand many who read this will be biased, i don't care just fix the Burgs

Just mirrored things to give you a bit of perspective from the other side.

Originally Posted by Thorgrum

Nah, its the couragous sprint away to NPC afterward that probably win the day for you....#

No matter, if we are going to start swinging the nerf bat randomly, lets swing for the fences and nerf the high DPS classes last thing they need is survivability and damage output right? I mean, you'd be able to play without the bubbles im sure...#

Careful, because if the PvP language begins to evolve into "nerfs" for creeps the flood of tears that will follow for nerfing freep classes might overwhelm the hoardale. Slippery slope indeed

That's your best counter retort? A warg accusing a champion of running away?

I'll assume you think 10s knockdowns and perma roots are perfectly fine then. And proceed to lol. All aboard the martyr train. Revenge is way better then balance!

Originally Posted by zaskoda

That's your best counter retort? A warg accusing a champion of running away?

I'll assume you think 10s knockdowns and perma roots are perfectly fine then. And proceed to lol. All aboard the martyr train. Revenge is way better then balance!

You mean the 5s knock down right? 7 ranks in Audacity makes the rest of our stuns/knock downs 2.5 seconds, quoting stun, root and knock down times without including audacity is just plain dishonest at this point. The root is a 10 second channeled skill and leaves the Warg helpless, not to mention the fact that it rarely works on moving targets, and fails to catch sprinting champs and guards 90% of the time.

Lotro PvmP is broken, nothing else. EVERY freep that cant get raid armour and raid jewellery is gonna come QQ, but if they could get those nice bonuses off the raid sets and appropriate mitigations and morale and and and...They wouldnt QQ, moors should have its own armour that people get, this way there wont be the best and the worst players, it'd be just skill.

Why not to give every freep base morale mitigations and offence..few skins, etc, just like on creepside. But no, turbine gets money when freeps who cant get the cool gear make minnies champs wardens and guards(every freep will spend atleast 500TP on a toon, which is roughly 5€). They also make freeps buy the store buffs.

Originally Posted by klorphaxius

You mean the 5s knock down right? 7 ranks in Audacity makes the rest of our stuns/knock downs 2.5 seconds, quoting stun, root and knock down times without including audacity is just plain dishonest at this point. The root is a 10 second channeled skill and leaves the Warg helpless, not to mention the fact that it rarely works on moving targets, and fails to catch sprinting champs and guards 90% of the time.

I understand what your trying to say here, but to assume everyone has 7 ranks of Audacity is just ridiculous..at this point. Come back 1-2 months and MAYBE it is a reasonable thing to assume.

Originally Posted by klorphaxius

You mean the 5s knock down right? 7 ranks in Audacity makes the rest of our stuns/knock downs 2.5 seconds, quoting stun, root and knock down times without including audacity is just plain dishonest at this point. The root is a 10 second channeled skill and leaves the Warg helpless, not to mention the fact that it rarely works on moving targets, and fails to catch sprinting champs and guards 90% of the time.

So, all the recipients of the stun are capped at 7 audacity? And we're being honest right? It doesn't matter if it leaves the warg rooted and helpless, it's a zerg/pack skill. Clearly warg packs were in need of such a buff, lol.

Anyways, my major issue with knockdowns is that they still aren't on the DR table, copping 2-3 stuns/dazes then eating a full duration knockdown is stupid.

Originally Posted by whitefox1313

it wasn't that the Burg was good (though they were competent) it was that they just weren't taking any appreciable damage and were hitting for up to 2k at a time.

That Burg is so oh peeeeeeeee!

Just out of curiousity, what classes have ever taken 5 minutes to kill or die to a WL...? That sounds to me like too much kiting, too much healing, too few actual damage dealing skills/a failed rotation on at least one of the players' part.

tl;dr all topic

omg again someone get killed in moors?

Originally Posted by zaskoda

A 10s knockdown and unbreakable root have no place in pvp. Otherwise wargs seem fine.

The root isn't unbreakable and the knockdown can be broken by Store Brands/certain skills.

Originally Posted by zaskoda

Yeah, nothing says I win like 15 seconds of 3k morale that doesn't even work half the time. /lol

Except, the Champ usually pops their 45s Sprint (w/ the bubble up) and runs for the nearest NPC/Rez.

And isn't your "I Win" ISB->Remorseless? Haven't heard too many Champs complaining about getting a guaranteed 3.5-6k Dev... just sayin.

Originally Posted by zaskoda

Yeah, nothing says I win like 15 seconds of 3k morale that doesn't even work half the time. /lol

Originally Posted by zaskoda

I don't understand the reasons for traiting glory, it makes you nearly invulnerable to already easy fights (warg, reaver)

Would you consider "nearly invulnerable" "I win" then

Just not getting your position, easy fights (or nearly unlosable) leads to nerf wargs? Totally agree that it makes it harder for a lone target to survive a pack....but isn't that how it should be? Otherwise 1 freep>1 creep and we're going into the "many to one" design again.

OMG, a warg hit for up to 2k (every freep can do that and MUCH more) and didn't take any aprreciable damage (Sounds like a guard, or a Capt in Last stand, or a bubbled Champ, or a bubbled Mini...should I go on?). You finally don't have it easymode (as much) and all you wanna do is cry that a warg hit for 2k ROFL...get over it. Wargs aren't broken, they're where they should be.

Seriously i waited for such an thread^^

Before U6 Champs were able to kill Wargs with spamming brutal strikes in a 1 on 1 .. Now nearly every Champ need to use CD´s to kill my Warg and most of the time they still loose. Finally u need skill (movement for example) and no "I Win buttons" .. and because of this Wargs are broken? Sure dude..

Btw its funny that a RK opened that topic. Maybe a Burg should have done it, I cant kill everything in the 5sec riddle anymore, hope burgs get a buff soon ..

Originally Posted by zaskoda

A 10s knockdown and unbreakable root have no place in pvp. Otherwise wargs seem fine.

I think the only thing that makes the root "acceptable" is that it basically CCs the warg as well.

It's got to be frustrating when it's used on you in a very lopsided fight, but that was already a lopsided fight you were probably toast in anyways.

It's much more interesting/risky in even fights.

In large fights the warg channeling can and does get blown to bits.

In small fights, the warg can hold a target in place, but the group loses the wargs DPS which in 3-6 vs 3-6 fights can often mean that the target is easily saved by heals.

The knockdown is not so bad with audacity. Consider it a "not so subtle" way that turbine is forcing you to wear the pvp armor.

Originally Posted by Skydawg

OMG, a warg hit for up to 2k (every freep can do that and MUCH more) and didn't take any aprreciable damage (Sounds like a guard, or a Capt in Last stand, or a bubbled Champ, or a bubbled Mini...should I go on?). You finally don't have it easymode (as much) and all you wanna do is cry that a warg hit for 2k ROFL...get over it. Wargs aren't broken, they're where they should be.

The 2K hit line of reasoning was good till you brought up bubble and last stand, cause creeps have the defiler absorb (like guard shield walll) and warleader bubbles, speaking of which who doesn't complain about 1 vs 1ing a ranked defiler or trying to take down a rank WL with 18K morale, about the only thing more annoying than 2 WLs bubbling each other is 2 minstrels doing the same, except every creep in the world complains about mini DPS and ranged damage, I know I do.

Originally Posted by aad0italian

Still not sure if they should be hitting their skills as if from stealth all the time or whatever someone proposed.

On this topic, it would be nice to see some numbers....anyone have any combat logs to see in a typical fight with a high ranked warg how often you actually b/p/e the 4 skills in question (outside shadow). With the intro of finesse, I would assume outside of TnG and Pledge the rate is pretty low (in particular versus light armors and fervour champs)?, resulting in a marginal increase in DPS specifically attributable to the negation of b/p/e (for those 4 skills) overall versus the reduction in defences of the warg in shadow. Not seeing numbers though I have no idea and could be wrong on my assumptions on b/p/e rates.

Hoping the above made sense

Originally Posted by Macgregor1821

The 2K hit line of reasoning was good till you brought up bubble and last stand, cause creeps have the defiler absorb (like guard shield walll) and warleader bubbles.

And freeps have captain bubbles (same effect, and with legacy same cooldown), and actual shield wall.

By your logic, this means that reavers should also have 2k morale bubbles...