In addition, I would be interested in the plans towards Defiant Challenge, its cooldown (was to be reduced significantly) and damage reduction component.
How exactly is the Terrible Visage trait broken, in relationship to EoB? What does it mean when it gets fixed?
This is the only one of these questions I have info on. Terrible Visage is making EoB terribly OP. Someone said the warden forums that it makes EoB generate something like 14k worth of damage threat. I don't know if that number is accurate, but EoB generates TONS of threat right now. I imagine when they fix it it will be greatly reduced threat from that.
This is the only one of these questions I have info on. Terrible Visage is making EoB terribly OP. Someone said the warden forums that it makes EoB generate something like 14k worth of damage threat. I don't know if that number is accurate, but EoB generates TONS of threat right now. I imagine when they fix it it will be greatly reduced threat from that.
How, exactly, is this a problem? I really am curious.
Cmalberg - Elendilmir
-Stickygritz, Gritzwarr, and all those Gritz. Greblam
At least Turbine didn't screw up with the Warg changes, else I'd have no class to play.
I've avoided my Warden since RoI was released simply because Turbine has no idea what they want the class to be, this latest update not only affirms that belief but shows how little they care about getting it right. Our Threat generation was borked, our DPS stances are a joke...minimum range and melee range gambits in assailment, really? I really want to enjoy playing my Warden, but I'm just not motivated to play a class that's broken and can't consistently fill it's supposed role as a main tank unless you're a top tier player.
This is the only one of these questions I have info on. Terrible Visage is making EoB terribly OP. Someone said the warden forums that it makes EoB generate something like 14k worth of damage threat. I don't know if that number is accurate, but EoB generates TONS of threat right now. I imagine when they fix it it will be greatly reduced threat from that.
14k over 16 seconds is not that much considering the investment of both time and masteries (2/6) to build it in addition and taking into account the very small 6m radius of it. That's the threat WITHOUT the Terrible Visage trait.
In order to achieve AoE lockdown fast you'd need to double up on it via Battle Memory at least twice [31-23-1] using up 2/6 of our masteries. Doing a second round of it [3-12-32] locks up (4/6) of our masteries leaving us with only one decent mastery to buff ourselves with Celebration of Skill [2-1-21]. Unlike guards, if DPS does manage to get aggro we have a hell of a time getting it back while keeping ourselves buffed up.
The worm population was on a steep decline in Moria with no explanation.
Orcs claim a crazy hobbit, some elf, a captain and one crazy @#$ warden were responsible but no witnesses can confirm it
How, exactly, is this a problem? I really am curious.
Well the tests I read said that EoB was generating 70k or 85k damage worth of threat with terrible visage trait slotted, not 16k. I hope you see this problem with this...
Well the tests I read said that EoB was generating 70k or 85k damage worth of threat with terrible visage trait slotted, not 16k. I hope you see this problem with this...
So we will continue to raise dps but not threat generation?
Trust me, I don't doom and gloom about wardens and I think the majority just need to adjust their rotation, but it seems that this would be low on the list to fix when we have a lot of other bugs and it seems silly to make a big deal over the threat portion of any skill. Why is this garnering so much attention? How long is it before people point out that we have a -99% damage/healing threat skill?
Really, threat doesn't seem that difficult and I don't care that this is fixed, but you missed my point I think.
Last edited by cmal; Mar 20 2012 at 12:38 PM.
Cmalberg - Elendilmir
-Stickygritz, Gritzwarr, and all those Gritz. Greblam
Question, for those wardens concerned about dps, how much survivablity are you willing to trade off to achieve it?
I think thats a valid question. Where do you think the warden should be on the charts for dps?
My biggest concern is normalized threat generation across our gambit system. Right now I think its a bit wonky and leaves gaps in our ablity to hold and maintain, swap and generate after in combat rezzes.
This issue compounds when you are working with poeple not familiar to wardens.
Get a team thats used to it, and its not a big issue. Get some who dont, or those who refuse to tone down dps, and they will just look for a guardian ever time, especially if EoB is nerfed and we dont get more of a normalization , especially of AoE aggro, snap skills. Old war cry , at the level we could trait, would at least help with part of that. Up front, ToT, and leach + heals should hold anything. But as dps classes continue to scale, our threat doesnt , until they update again. Run with a few hunters with 1st agers, with loads of crit, hitting for 8-9k +3+6k (all possible #s with crits) all in a matter of seconds you can see where nerfed aggro skills come into effect. WELL simple solution is for them to hold back, dump into endurance every start of fight. Simply put, they dont have to that with guardians, why should our threat snaps, be inferiour to thiers?
IF they want to give me a usefual defiant challenge at 3 min timers, thats a snap only skill. GREAT , Ill trait it and use it. ''
So we will continue to raise dps but not threat generation?
Trust me, I don't doom and gloom about wardens and I think the majority just need to adjust their rotation, but it seems that this would be low on the list to fix when we have a lot of other bugs and it seems silly to make a big deal over the threat portion of any skill. Why is this garnering so much attention? How long is it before people point out that we have a -99% damage/healing threat skill?
Really, threat doesn't seem that difficult and I don't care that this is fixed, but you missed my point I think.
Yeah, but its a big deal only because the community disagrees on whether or not it should be fixed. Theres alot of attention on it not because its high priority in terms of fixes, but because people are arguing that it shouldn't be fixed at all. Other bugs everybody agrees needs to be fixed so you're not going to see any discussion on it.
Tomorrow's patch (6.0.1) will address the following. There will be other fixes coming at a later date in Update 6.1.
War-cry now has an AOE Threat effect when in determination stance.
Battle-preparation will now be dispelled upon using any gambit.
Boar's rush no longer attempts to apply the daze effect in all stances when critical strikes apply.
Adroit Manoeuvre and Reversal's ranged version will now load into Battle Memory when the warden is potent.
The Skill "Battle Preparation" was allowing Wardens to be extremely well prepared. This has been addressed.
Warden – Armour of the Thamen and Armour of the Porbad set bonus function properly again.
So what, we get to wait another month or more for some more changes from the pages and pages of bugs that should have been dealt with before U6 went live? DC, Fi-Sh mastery in battle preparation, all the problems with assailment, the conviction legacy, and so on?
This might be news to Turbine but in the real world customers don't pay for broken products for very long.
I was hoping for both a DC fix and a conviction legacy issue resolved.
Oh well..
I will be interested as to what level of threat we will get back on war cry, considering I cannot legacy it anymore. If its old pre legacied version, I fail to see where its going to achieve all that much for us.
This is the only one of these questions I have info on. Terrible Visage is making EoB terribly OP. Someone said the warden forums that it makes EoB generate something like 14k worth of damage threat. I don't know if that number is accurate, but EoB generates TONS of threat right now. I imagine when they fix it it will be greatly reduced threat from that.
I responded in a /tell to someone today looking for a guard tank for Roots of Fangorn. I said that I didn't have time to group atm, but that a warden could tank it just as well. I received the response that it was the group leader's understanding that wardens currently lacked a reliable group aggro skill. I said that we currently did have one, but only one, and that was EOB, but only if a particular trait was slotted and ranked up. He said he was glad to hear it, but I noticed that he didn't actually change his glff posting, but just kept repeating it until the fellow was full.
I'm finally out and about and tanking again, and am having a great time. But if we lose EOB without getting Aggression (and other nerfed aggro skills) restored I fear that we'll once again fall off the cliff in terms of acceptance of an equal tank to the guard.
The generation of random numbers is too important to be left to chance.
Run with a few hunters with 1st agers, with loads of crit, hitting for 8-9k +3+6k (all possible #s with crits) all in a matter of seconds you can see where nerfed aggro skills come into effect. WELL simple solution is for them to hold back, dump into endurance every start of fight. Simply put, they dont have to that with guardians, why should our threat snaps, be inferiour to thiers?
But they DO have to hold back with guards, maybe not the same extent but if a Hunter is running with a 1st age bow, 26k+ PM, 9K+ Crit they are gonna strip off any tank. Period. Wardens have always been able to out generate threat compared to a guard, and they still can.
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Re: What is , and not supposed to be fixed "soon"
Maybe I should clarify a bit what this patch is and isn't meant to be. For starters, it's small. It's small becasue small means fast. We had some pressing issues that needed to be done and we tried to get in fixes for a number of things, Wardens, Rune-keepers, Raids, Server performance issues, and other things. Some of the items we fixed didn't pass our QA team and had to be backed out (this is not uncommon). We had a choice, you wiat a month for anything to get fixed or we take what we have now that's passed QA and signed off and ship it (this is what we did) and take those things that still need attention and roll those into the next round of updates (6.1 in this case).
So we decided that Wardens (and others) would probably like to at least get some fixes now instead of nothing for at least a month or perhaps longer until 6.1 is ready.
Rick Heaton, Community Manager, The Lord of the Rings Online.
Two things - I will wait a bit longer to re-learn my warden, and I will still live in hope that the fundamental issues with the hunter class are addressed by somebody.
Maybe I should clarify a bit what this patch is and isn't meant to be. For starters, it's small. It's small becasue small means fast. We had some pressing issues that needed to be done and we tried to get in fixes for a number of things, Wardens, Rune-keepers, Raids, Server performance issues, and other things. Some of the items we fixed didn't pass our QA team and had to be backed out (this is not uncommon). We had a choice, you wiat a month for anything to get fixed or we take what we have now that's passed QA and signed off and ship it (this is what we did) and take those things that still need attention and roll those into the next round of updates (6.1 in this case).
So we decided that Wardens (and others) would probably like to at least get some fixes now instead of nothing for at least a month or perhaps longer until 6.1 is ready.
So it looks like Orion's list of hoped-for fixes within 2 weeks after U6 release is (mostly) out the window, alas. Except, that is, for the BP fix and War Cry aggro restore, if I remember correctly. At least they aren't nerfing our one remaining reliable aggro skill, as some wardens are oddly calling for. Continuing to live with the bugged conviction legacy will be frustrating, but not the end of the world.
The generation of random numbers is too important to be left to chance.
I responded in a /tell to someone today looking for a guard tank for Roots of Fangorn. I said that I didn't have time to group atm, but that a warden could tank it just as well. I received the response that it was the group leader's understanding that wardens currently lacked a reliable group aggro skill. I said that we currently did have one, but only one, and that was EOB, but only if a particular trait was slotted and ranked up. He said he was glad to hear it, but I noticed that he didn't actually change his glff posting, but just kept repeating it until the fellow was full.
I'm finally out and about and tanking again, and am having a great time. But if we lose EOB without getting Aggression (and other nerfed aggro skills) restored I fear that we'll once again fall off the cliff in terms of acceptance of an equal tank to the guard.
I hear you and do feel for the plight or wardens, mine is sitting at 65 and may never move from the fields farming. Isn't this always were wardens were? If you're group didn't know your capabilities they preferred not to bring you?
I tanked through the Great Tank Drought of Moria and know exactly what it feels like to hear "Mind getting your champ instead?" Hopefully aggression will get a buff with the EoB reduction, but hopefully it balances a bit so that if I am co-tanking with a warden in the group I at least have enough time to get my mobs out of range before they are stripped off me, or if the warden comes into a mob I have been working on a while doesn't strip it off me with 2-3 skills.
I responded in a /tell to someone today looking for a guard tank for Roots of Fangorn. I said that I didn't have time to group atm, but that a warden could tank it just as well. I received the response that it was the group leader's understanding that wardens currently lacked a reliable group aggro skill. I said that we currently did have one, but only one, and that was EOB, but only if a particular trait was slotted and ranked up. He said he was glad to hear it, but I noticed that he didn't actually change his glff posting, but just kept repeating it until the fellow was full.
I'm finally out and about and tanking again, and am having a great time. But if we lose EOB without getting Aggression (and other nerfed aggro skills) restored I fear that we'll once again fall off the cliff in terms of acceptance of an equal tank to the guard.
Should of sent the leader a link to the video of a warden tanking it T2C posted on these forums!
Tomorrow's patch (6.0.1) will address the following. There will be other fixes coming at a later date in Update 6.1.
Any chance of fixing skill description text typos and weird effect switches among the skills, or fully describing the skill effects in tooltip? (for example, Fierce Resolve in Reck. also heals, still not showing up in tooltip).
There are quite many tooltip bugs for warden, are these gonna be in a secret fix coming in this update, or do we need to wait for a later patch?
I find it hard to learn the skills in each stances since they change their effects even without changing stances, plus the non-displayed secret effects issue i've described above doesn't help either.
Bonus question: since U6, in each stances, there are some group of skills and gambits (seemingly unrelated to each other, pre-u6 they all had different effects, they're not even on the same chain) which basically do the same only they had different values. For example, in Reck, there are 3-4 gambits(chains) that are doing simple DoT without any special further effect. Some gives a 2% chance for power restore, or some gives bonus when it crits, but other than that there's nothing major effect that comes into play. With that, in Reck. mode, wardens can easily just press whatever they want, the effects will be the same, there's no need for a pro-con list. Is this some kind of bug as well and they should all have different major effects beside the DoT, or is this intentional?
Maybe I should clarify a bit what this patch is and isn't meant to be. For starters, it's small. It's small becasue small means fast. We had some pressing issues that needed to be done and we tried to get in fixes for a number of things, Wardens, Rune-keepers, Raids, Server performance issues, and other things. Some of the items we fixed didn't pass our QA team and had to be backed out (this is not uncommon). We had a choice, you wiat a month for anything to get fixed or we take what we have now that's passed QA and signed off and ship it (this is what we did) and take those things that still need attention and roll those into the next round of updates (6.1 in this case).
So we decided that Wardens (and others) would probably like to at least get some fixes now instead of nothing for at least a month or perhaps longer until 6.1 is ready.
The fact that you guys have a fix for the lag/server restart related issues a week after 6.0 went live is a GREAT turn around. Any other fixes in that package are just gravy.
Thanks for taking your time to post in this thread.
"Spiders CC is unbearable... it's just as bad as loremasters" ~ Brodster
I understand that not everything goes according to plan, but I'm disappointed nonetheless. I wonder where this QA team was prior to the U6 launch.
The Conviction legacy is simply a sign change (- to +), I simply don't understand how that is too complicated to fix. Tool-tip descriptions are just text. Again, I don't understand how that is too complicated to fix while the servers are already getting updated during 6.0.1. I realize I'm being obtuse, but it seems like Turbine is making things more complicated than they need to be.
LoTRO is a great game, the best MMO out in my opinion. But little things like this make me wonder how it got there in the first place.
Maybe I should clarify a bit what this patch is and isn't meant to be. For starters, it's small. It's small becasue small means fast. We had some pressing issues that needed to be done and we tried to get in fixes for a number of things, Wardens, Rune-keepers, Raids, Server performance issues, and other things. Some of the items we fixed didn't pass our QA team and had to be backed out (this is not uncommon). We had a choice, you wiat a month for anything to get fixed or we take what we have now that's passed QA and signed off and ship it (this is what we did) and take those things that still need attention and roll those into the next round of updates (6.1 in this case).
So we decided that Wardens (and others) would probably like to at least get some fixes now instead of nothing for at least a month or perhaps longer until 6.1 is ready.
Sapience, you're everywhere. How do you do that? You comment in General, then in here, then you're banning someone in a sever's pvp board, and then you're somewhere else again. How exactly do you do that? Do you just read through the entirety of the forums every day or something? Or do you just use magnets?
On a serious note though, Once again Turbine has completely messed up with our class. Threat, mitigation, resistance, aggro control, secondary roles, and CC immunity were never an issue. The issue is the lack of ferrets. When will this be addressed?
Originally Posted by Hydragyrum
I understand that not everything goes according to plan, but I'm disappointed nonetheless. I wonder where this QA team was prior to the U6 launch.
The Conviction legacy is simply a sign change (- to +), I simply don't understand how that is too complicated to fix. Tool-tip descriptions are just text. Again, I don't understand how that is too complicated to fix while the servers are already getting updated during 6.0.1. I realize I'm being obtuse, but it seems like Turbine is making things more complicated than they need to be.
LoTRO is a great game, the best MMO out in my opinion. But little things like this make me wonder how it got there in the first place.
No, it's completely bugged. Testing has confirmed that it says -10%, and that IS what it does. For the time being I just swapped it out for the +15% healing legacy.
Ghost Bear see problem. Nice peoples looking at Horse mouth. Ghost bear look at Horse belly. Horse make good snack!
Thanks to Graalx and Sapience both for making an appearance in this thread.. Any fixes we can get will help, since that is less time to unlearn what was changed a week ago. Anyone else kinda worried that we made Orion mad and he is in back spitting in our food?
I once had a cool sig,
That Turbine shortened and did not dig.
So now, all I can do is dance a silent jig.
Thanks to Graalx and Sapience both for making an appearance in this thread.. Any fixes we can get will help, since that is less time to unlearn what was changed a week ago. Anyone else kinda worried that we made Orion mad and he is in back spitting in our food?
I don't think he's mad at us. He's probably more upset with himself for not having the class more polished by the time u6 was released. He seems to take pride in his work and I'm guessing the warden not being perfect wasn't really a good reason to slow down the new zone - at least to the bean counters. I'm sure the fixes will come, I'm surprised the EoB nerf bat didn't hit sooner - I was not around the last time EoB was bugged and the legacy was multiplicative instead of additive (at least that's how I understand the prior bug that was in favor of wardens). Or maybe he's just on vacation and is stewing over the forums insolence.
Sapience - Thanks for the response and clarification.
Also, a general thanks to Turbine for QA control. Of course I'd like more and better and for things to be perfect, but... good to know they won't pass things that fail. Kudos to them. I know from a hardware product assurance side that it is not an easy job!
Tomorrow's patch (6.0.1) will address the following. There will be other fixes coming at a later date in Update 6.1.
Battle-preparation will now be dispelled upon using any gambit.
Boar's rush no longer attempts to apply the daze effect in all stances when critical strikes apply.
The Skill "Battle Preparation" was allowing Wardens to be extremely well prepared. This has been addressed.
Why is it that errors in our favor are always the first ones to get attention? ><
None of those were particularly game-breaking, even if they were obviously not WAI. There's a whole slew of problems that are making us less effective, though - I know those are probably more complicated, but you could at least wait until you're ready to fix them ALL at once, rather than give us the nerfs up front and come back for the buffs sometime "Soon"...
I can't believe we have to wait another month for damage type bleeds and a fixed set bonus.
PvE before PvP. I spend a lot of time in the Moors and I am just fine with that, frustrating as it can be. I would rather stop lagging than get my bleeds fixed.
Cmalberg - Elendilmir
-Stickygritz, Gritzwarr, and all those Gritz. Greblam
Maybe I should clarify a bit what this patch is and isn't meant to be. For starters, it's small. It's small becasue small means fast. We had some pressing issues that needed to be done and we tried to get in fixes for a number of things, Wardens, Rune-keepers, Raids, Server performance issues, and other things. Some of the items we fixed didn't pass our QA team and had to be backed out (this is not uncommon). We had a choice, you wiat a month for anything to get fixed or we take what we have now that's passed QA and signed off and ship it (this is what we did) and take those things that still need attention and roll those into the next round of updates (6.1 in this case).
So we decided that Wardens (and others) would probably like to at least get some fixes now instead of nothing for at least a month or perhaps longer until 6.1 is ready.
^^ you mean like the 6 plus months we have been waiting and told it is coming. This is a joke. You broke things that were working (set bonuses, bleed types) introduced new problems, didn't fix old problems, All of which were found early in beta testing by members of this board (but apparently not your QA team). Then rushed out update 6 with none of the bugs resolved. Then told us to wait for the hotfix. hotfix comes out and essentially does nothing and you tell us to wait longer? Come on!
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RIP LOTRO
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