pvp or pve ?!!

Mar 19 2012 09:16 AM

It's only an impression or atm the etten are like a big pve content with random run for quest !?!?

The audacity is a good point but now after a week i think a lot of people have already 7 point of audacity and what is the result ?

Freep still missing group and heal and creep stay close to the travel zone fon nuke anyrandom solo player and run away if they are 2 :S

Where is the point for have more fellow in etten in freep side ?!?

It's strange to see the freep play like the evil style

do damage while another one die !!! Rush every where and run all time alone like the tankministrell !!!

Mar 19 2012 11:16 AM

The way commendations has been implemented has indeed turned the Ettenmoors from a majority PvP/minority PvE map into the reverse. I have no time for these baffoons who are earning their freep armour by PvEing when it is meant to be acquired primarily through PvP. Alot of them are switchers as well, who then log into their creeps to switch the map red and thus gain more commendations for their freep armour when they're not even on that side.

Mar 19 2012 11:42 AM

yes and have his armor after 2 day ? Tbh is a fail ! I think isn't a really good game cause atm is only a farm of commendations and that's boring a lot ...

Mar 19 2012 01:10 PM

The pvp minded update killed pvp

Mar 20 2012 01:37 AM

Real sad to see this... Snowbourn theres no such things, pvp/groupvgroup/rvr action. I pvp only and got r6 aud 6k comms to go for last.
Must say lags pretty bad at times as last night at a time there was 3 creep raids roaming ettens... Go try flip a keep there freepies

Mar 20 2012 02:41 AM

Mar 20 2012 11:13 AM

Originally Posted by MiniCrazy

Real sad to see this... Snowbourn theres no such things, pvp/groupvgroup/rvr action. I pvp only and got r6 aud 6k comms to go for last.
Must say lags pretty bad at times as last night at a time there was 3 creep raids roaming ettens... Go try flip a keep there freepies

Yep, that's the very point I've made recently about other servers. Creeps are totally ruthless & make Freeps have to fight every inch to even get on the map let alone to take a keep to give them a GY, and it is this attitude that creates overall better Ettens action. On Evernight Creep raids keep going on about fair play and it's time to disband as a raid is no longer needed or let them take TR to have a GY, not realising such a Pink and Fluffy attitude towards PVP actually kills RvR action in the long term and overall PVP action rather than create it. That's why Evernight has become possibly one of the worst PVP servers there is at the moment, hence so many leaving or trying to discuss what can be done to change it. The answer is actually staring Creeps in the face.

Mar 20 2012 11:41 AM

Granted certain observations or hypotheses could be correct. What are the creep raids to fight when freeps disperse and disappear after 2 wipes? Should you farm Soho and other diehard freeps at TR/GY will that really improve the PvP?

Will a ruthless attitude help against 2 freep raids or 60 odd freeps? when creeps can barely make a full raid? Is there a greater creep population on Snowie? What is the attitude of PvP'ers on the server, fun or rating?

How would the reaction of a ruthless attitude from creep Vets or raids impact on greenies/new players when freeps will only raid when entering the Moors?

One cant alter the attitude or opinion of another without agreement or consent "A man convinced against his will; is of the same opinion still." From the improvement thread it is quite clear that they're a number of freeps who want better PvP, rivers dont just appear they start with a trickle of water.

Mar 20 2012 03:20 PM

/Agree voodoo

Some deep thought in there dude and quality one liners keep them comming .

Reg Pouch

Mar 20 2012 03:57 PM

Originally Posted by VoodooJack_EU

Granted certain observations or hypotheses could be correct. What are the creep raids to fight when freeps disperse and disappear after 2 wipes? Should you farm Soho and other diehard freeps at TR/GY will that really improve the PvP?

No, farming the diehard Freeps would not be fun for either them or Creeps. Evernight is unique (as is each server) we have a culture and situation built up now and I am not suggesting starting full time Creep raids when there is no warrant for them will be the magic wand that makes Creeping better.

Originally Posted by VoodooJack_EU

Will a ruthless attitude help against 2 freep raids or 60 odd freeps? when creeps can barely make a full raid? Is there a greater creep population on Snowie? What is the attitude of PvP'ers on the server, fun or rating?

I remember when I returned after a couple of years rl absence and started playing again as an unknown, Creeps could get a very strong balanced tactically built raid up within minutes on Evernight , and unless you were a certain rank there was no chance of an invite regardless of who was leading. The last couple of years, that has whittled down to the fact we now struggle to regularly get full raids up, and we have to ask why?

Many hardcore good ranked Creeps from this server and a fair few others went to other servers each for their own reasons they alone know, so I won’t put words in their mouths that they might not agree with, but I do know why a couple of Creeps I knew well who left Evernight or now mostly play other servers and they told me their reasons at the time. Even so, I only write from my own perspective.

It is a fact that in the past Creep raids often disbanded because a larger number of Freeps logged out against a challenge (not the hardcore ones who stay ofc) so the Creep raid disbands only to find the Freeps zerging back a short while later. A Creep raid forms, Freeps log out, it disbands too soon, Freeps return and by then some Creeps have logged off and we can’t again get a raid up to fight them. That was a pattern for so long, and a reason why some Creeps started to become disillusioned with the playstyle of some Freeps and the lack of will from Creeps to be able to tackle it.

I was in a raid on Eldar late the other evening, it was a full raid fighting a Freep raid at GV, the battle lasted for some hours with different Creep people taking over when the leader wanted a rest from leading for a bit. On Evernight, we would have said it’s not fair to fight them at GV or let them take TR, and we would maybe have disbanded and some Creeps logged off. Eldar is unique and built up that sort of great action over-time, Evernight is unique and built up action where we can’t even get decent raids up on a regular basis anymore.

I am not saying my theory is the right answer for Evernight, nor that it will wave a magic wand that sorts it all out over-night, but that is my theory of where Creeps started going wrong, and yes a man convinced against his will is of the same opinion still in the same way that just because you've silenced someone doesn't mean you've converted them. I don’t want this thread to descend into flaming or non-constructive arguing as that leads nowhere.

This is just my theory of where Creeps went wrong in the past and still often do. Others may disagree as is their right. Creep raids talked all the time about we were the ones who had to create balanced fights, and if we were too strong against the Freeps we would disband. Has that attitude led to great RvR action on Evernight? No, it’s left us with a decimated and weak Creep side as many have walked with their feet or switched to the Freep side.

Originally Posted by VoodooJack_EU

How would the reaction of a ruthless attitude from creep Vets or raids impact on greenies/new players when freeps will only raid when entering the Moors?

New Creeps already have that problem, not necessarily full Freep PVP raids atm, but how has it been the last few months and more for the new Greenie Reavers stuck at say Lug GY with 90% ranged classes zerging them down in seconds when they step more than a few yards from the GY? In the long term a ruthless Creep attitude creates not just single RvR action, but a few raids and groups from Creep side as well as Freep side plus the large numbers of solers. It does not kill action in the long term, but short-term, it is uknown how new players would be impacted but it can't be any worse than it has been for them if Creeps are able to regularly sustain a credible and sustainable fight back. The New generation of greenie Reavers would certainly probably stick around a lot longer, as it is most of them are fed-up of being sent back to the GY in seconds and quite a few of them have given up Creeping already as a result, and maybe have even gone to the greener-fields of Freeping in Ettens, thus making Creep numbers weaker again.

Originally Posted by VoodooJack_EU

One can’t alter the attitude or opinion of another without agreement or consent "A man convinced against his will; is of the same opinion still." From the improvement thread it is quite clear that they're a number of freeps who want better PvP, rivers dont just appear they start with a trickle of water.

Creeps need to stop staring into our own navel bemoaning the fact how OP Freeps have been for a long time and how over-numbered they often are and outnumbered we have often been. It is time we swung the pendulum back the other way, and the attitude I am suggesting in the long-term creates a healthy PVP Creep community rather than one where so many Creep players either already have or are at this moment considering bailing to another server. Short-term, how such an attitude will affect the server is un-known due to us not being Eldar or Snowie and not be able to create such action over-night. Long-term, I think the Creep side would see a lot of benefits as the emphasis is then on the Freeps to do something about the Creep opposition they will face when they come to the Ettens, rather than Creeps always complaining how bad we have it.

Mar 21 2012 04:27 AM

I agree and disagree Nakah, if our server didn't have this option to go back to PvE land after one death we would have been better off, and yes if majority of freeps were of the same caliber as elsewhere being ruthless would yield results, but when we tried this we would simply find freeps didn't come back fighting, they just didn't come back at all. And we'd get moaned at for killing the action for the veterans, sparrers and soloers for the rest of the night, freep and creep side alike. At the moment, against such numbers, a) we don't have enough creeps and b) a lot of them don't seem to prepared to want to learn about how to make those tactical raids... we are limited in what alts they want to rank, not what alts we need to make the raid successful as was a backbone in those days, you played what was needed and if you didnt want to you could go solo if we didn't need the alt you were on.

Mar 21 2012 06:54 AM

The other night i was in a raid on snowbourn we heavily outnumbered freeps at the time the raid started mostly becourse we only wanted to get lug back for a gy. As action spun by we found ourselfs facing a 3/4 full freep raid wiping us on the cg. Then the raid leader went to tr to try and cap it instead but we manage to fight for over a hour inside a blue tr.

Raid v raid action continue for almoust 3 hours in eather tr or just infront of tr. Freeps kept on streaming in and try to fight us off and at the end we wiped a couple of times as there was just to many freeps(adout 2 full freep raids when i logged off)..

I geuss a creep raid (or freep) in a oppisite keep without capping is giving just enough morale to the enemy to keep on going

I made well over 6000 inf in that hours

Mar 21 2012 06:55 AM

Its just an example so next time maybe the overwelming side can go fight in a keep and stop gy hugging?

Mar 21 2012 07:34 AM

I agree with Helly, we've tried and tested lots of different options. The changes really need to come from freepside; I've my final exams in a couple of weeks but I'll be outlining a couple of changes I'll be making to try make the action better on the server.

Mar 21 2012 12:15 PM

Originally Posted by VoodooJack_EU

The changes really need to come fromfreepside;

They do indeed, but to keep on banging that drum is to totally bury your head in the sand whilst ignoring the real issue and problem.We have huge numbers of Freeps that play PVP on this server, the problem is not the number of Freeps, they can sort themselves and their own house out as far as I am concerned. It is pointless to keep wishing, begging or flaming Freeps to change the way they play, let them sort their own house out and stop pretending it is all the Freep side that is ruining PVP. The questions that need asking are.

1. Why have so many Creeps switched to Freep?
2. Why are so many Creeps leaving or havealready left the server?
3. Why can’t Creeps regularly gather fullraids?
4. Why do a fair few regular Creep players nolonger wish to be in raids?
5. Probably other questions that need askingthat don’t come to mind at the moment.

Creep attitude needs to change in a number of areas, andthese are pointed at Creeps in general rather than any individuals, though ifthe hat fits then wear it.

1. More Aggressive Creep attitude

(I've already explained why I think this, no need torepeat here.)

2. Accept the play-style of other Creeps.

Just accept others are free to play as they wish, within the rules of the game of course, even if it is totally against an etiquette others think should be employed in the game. This is a game, no dictators on how others should play are either wanted, nor welcomed by many others, and such want to be etiquette dictators will always find they alienate the Creep community, not unite it, as other players have a free mind and many will simply refuse to be dictated to by other players in a virtual world. They will simply play with those of a similar mind and play-style, thus creating a divided community and unpleasant in game environment for all. More than a fair few Creeps on this server have switched to Freep side due to the attitude of others who tried to impose their own rules, play-style and will upon them.

3. Accept offers from other Servers.

I forget the posters name and server and can't be bothered to search for it. A while back Creeps from another server offered to come to Evernight, roll lots of Creeps and create chaos and fun through events or just turning up. They didn't receive a warm embrace from Creep side. I wonder how things might have turned out had we embraced their offer to come toEvernight from time to time.

4. Don’t expect others to suddenly drop what they are doing just to come and help raid action.

In the past Creeps got flamed because the Creep raid wiped and people bemoaned that others online not in the raid didn’t turn up to help. Some might not want to have to stop what they are doing to turn up to help a raid, which, if the tables were switched the raid would not divert it’s agenda to help those others. Put out a call in OOC by all means, but if others don’t turn up and help, accept they might have been busy doing other things orsimply did not want to. Don’t blame and flame them for the wipe.

5. Less Arrogance and more of a reality check please.

Some of the High Ranked Creeps on this server (not all)are incredibly arrogant individuals who think that just because they have spent more hours of their life pressing buttons on a keyboard in a virtual PVP environment and earned a little coloured symbol and a few extra skills in a bar, that others should automatically be in awe of them and grant them respect even though they rarelyif ever show it to others themselves. That little Greenie Rank 0 Reaver running about getting zerged might be the one working on the cure for cancer real life and just comes here to chill-out. Show a degree of politeness + respect to all players regardless of rank, and, if you don’t, don’t expect it to be automatically given in return. So many new or inexperienced players get kicked from a raid for a simple mistake. Explain to them the mistake they made, rather than having a default kick policy, as, such players might not want to go in a raid again after being humiliated, and they could actually turn out to be a great asset in the long term if they were shown a little more patience.

6. More Creep Raid leaders to be encouraged.

Some good creep raid leaders left the server because whenthey were learning the trade, others players were impatient with them and flamed them off the server or would not join their raids because they were new to it. Or, if they are leading a raid and make mistakes, let all back seat drivers shut up or put up. Suggestions can always be made, but sometimes a chat afterwards giving constructive feed-back rather than trying to lead from the back seat when another is leading is the way to go.

7. Don’t take it all too seriously.

Yes, everybody can become frustrated whilst playing oreven annoyed at times, we cannot switch off our human nature just because weare in gaming environment. But, if you are still annoyed or upset hours later or the next day in real-life just because of something happening in a game (or because somebody gives their little virtual Warg the surname ‘Kingofwargs’) then you have lost sight of the real object of the game which is relaxation and enjoyment. If it stops becoming the latter, then it is time to take a break for a few days.

Mar 21 2012 01:25 PM

Tbh start a raid of freep isn't really easy :S
Every higt rank play alone or withi his friends or kinnies.
A lot of ministrell running around alone like Kenshiro ... the healing is only a loling point ! The healing class have a burst of damage so big ... why they will do heal ?
The only point of ministrell for dps are the etten ... is true ! But is really bad for see a normal raid if freep lack of all class and every class become dps !!

A lot of people follow only the win raid ... if extrima or another good player calling people for raid every one wil join else we can only dream to take back TR !!

I think all player of the server need to become more sporting and enjoy whipe cause have good enemy to kill !!!

Mar 21 2012 04:53 PM

Interesting perspective Nakah

Mar 22 2012 12:37 AM

Originally Posted by Guiwinner

Tbh start a raid of freep isn't really easy :S
Every higt rank play alone or withi his friends or kinnies. !!!

I empathise but that's a Freep problem matey that need not concern Hardcore creeps. I am more interested in seeing a Harcore Creep community again built up that swings the pendulum back into our favour numbers wise etc. Freeps have had it to easy for far to long in Ettens on Evernight, so sort your own house out and don't look to Harcore Creeps for the answer to Freep issues. No offence meant m8, but lines in the sand now need to be drawn to save long term PVMP on this server in my opinion.

Originally Posted by Guiwinner

A lot of ministrell running around alone like Kenshiro ... the healing is only a loling point ! The healing class have a burst of damage so big ... why they will do heal ?
The only point of ministrell for dps are the etten ... is true ! But is really bad for see a normal raid if freep lack of all class and every class become dps !!

Again, a Freep issue matey, you guys sort your own house out. I am a hardcore Creep on this server and only very rarely come Freep in Ettens. I am not interested in Freep problems simply because Freeps have had easymode PVP for far too long on this server and I want to see that change.

Originally Posted by Guiwinner

A lot of people follow only the win raid ... if extrima or another good player calling people for raid every one wil join else we can only dream to take back TR !!

And that is totally the problem Freep side. Extrima and such players only ever enjoyed OP Ezmode PVP matey, and when beaten at Grothum by a solo Warg would log Creep and whine for ages in Creep OOC and on the forum for days on end. I am really not interested anymore in Freep QQ or the problems Freeps think they face, you guys have had it so easy for so long. I want to see a strong Creep community built back on Evernight, something we have lost, and need to regain. No offence meant, but any Freep QQ on here about how hard it is for Freeps is laughable considering how unbalanced classes and numbers have been for the last 1+ year in Freep favour. You guys sort your own house out, this server needs the Creep community to be rebuilt at the moment and that is the only thing that interests me, not more Freep QQ.

Originally Posted by Guiwinner

I think all player of the server need to become more sporting and enjoy whipe cause have good enemy to kill !!!

I can totally agree with you on that, and play all my other Creep classes that way. Except 'thekingofwargs' ofc, as on that class I enjoy and choose to play differently.

Mar 22 2012 09:05 AM

A summary of some of the major problems:

1. We don't have enough PvMPers overall on this server atm. I've noticed this in comparison to other servers.

2. We don't have enough die-hard creeps. Too many switchers these days. If we had a significant amount of creeps that only played creep side then we would have a source of defense for freep zergs as and when they arise.

3. Neither side has staying power. This is more noticeable on freep side - freeps are too used to facerolling zergs against ungrouped creeps. They disband if they find too much resistance. Come back later when resistance is weak.

4. Evernight PvMP is too reward-focused. Alot of people aren't PvPing just for the action anymore, just the rewards, which maybe be why we have such a significant keep-flipping switcher population atm.

5. It's connected to points already mentioned but there are no freep-side leaders with a 'raiding just for the PvP fun' outlook. Easy-moders and zergers are all the freep side leaders consist of.

These problems need sorting before any ideas about ruthlessness can be applied. You can't be ruthless to an enemy that refuses to meet you on the battlefield and waits till your army is asleep in the night before attacking, so to speak.

Mar 22 2012 11:49 AM

Originally Posted by Nakah

I empathise but that's a Freep problem matey

Tnx for the effort

Anyway I don't wanna QQ about who is more strong or not.
I think a good freep player can be a good creep player too.
Have a strong creep community can be really fun for both side for sure but we need a better game from the freep too for see some change.
else people will come in ettens die 3 or 4 time without TR and turn back to his daily

Now i think is normal if many people is focussed on new zone/item/raid but etten still be a good point of the game

and the must important think is the new zone !!!!!!!!!!!!

Mar 22 2012 12:44 PM