Thread: Master of Nature's Fury

The description for Master of Nature's Fury says that 3+ traits equipped reduces blinding flash duration. Is this right? Why would this trait provide something negative?

That's the price we pay for a large increase in our dps. It limits our use of one of our best CC skills to prevent being OP I think.

We still have plenty of other CC skills that remain unaffected

C

Yep, exactly. It's supposed to be a balance; Put more in the DPS, less in the CC, much in the same way the minstrel's healing gets lessened in War Speech.

like every normal game a buff give you one bonus and one malus ... only wow have only buff skill :P cause it's a game for children

It's the same for every class, like ministrell start to use his dps stance can't heal other the lore master with dps trait become a less cc player, another point is the crached eart become only a 15 sec root after 10 sec

It's all good for the game !!

check out the other effect on the 3 trait set bonus(it might be 4 now that i think about it)

-15s LOTRD CD

this is HUGE that's 1k extra damage every 15s at my level atleast

MoNF is pretty awesome if you don't need Blinding Flash...I mean you really kill stuff a lot faster.......unfortunately I find there are a lot of places where I really need Blinding Flash so I rarely am able to fully trait MoNF as much as I would like.

It's awesome for slayer deeds when you are in a pretty controlled area and know what your up against.....but like right now I am in Globsnaga and I just have to have that Blinding Flash because of all those nasty trolls in there.

LoTRO is really situational, you can't be afraid to switch things around to really get the most out of a given area.

Master of Natury's Fury (Red Line) = DPS
Usually good for soloing or instances where you're filling the damage role (usually 3-person instances, along with some 6-person). The idea is that if you're doing a lot of damage, you don't need much CC - you're just going to burn the bad guys to cinders as quickly as possible.

Ancient Master (Yellow Line) = Support
Usually good for raids, where you're expected to debuff enemies, manage power, & CC.

Keeper of Animals (Blue Line) = Mixed Role
Can be good for both solo and instances, where you might be expected to provide some CC, some healing, and DPS.

For soling, most LMs run Blue Line or Red Line. I prefer the red line, with the lynx; others prefer to use the raven or eagle, and a few like the bear as a tank. But I have run solo in blue line, with the lurker - and I think most people who go down this line with the lurker, as well, though I've seen many KoA LMs with the bear.

Most of the legacies for a Legendary Staff support red-line traits. Most of the legacies on a Legendary Book support either red-line or yellow-line traits. There are a few blue-line legacies, and most are for the Book. If you're careful, you can build a staff/book combo that really makes the Blue Line a formidable thing.

Am I the only one that feels this is getting old meaning that we get a real penalty in dps mode while all other classes don't?

I have absolutely no issue with it. We are not a dps class! If we want to dps there SHOULD be a penalty to our natural cc ability. If you personally want to dps then pick a class like a hunter. I think the Loremasters are really well balanced. Dps-ing with a full 30 second daze would be very overpowered, not to mention the point of dps is that you don't need a 30 second daze, because you burn brought them too quickly. If you're in a situation when you do need the daze then go cc instead of dps. It is that simple.

Originally Posted by Despotis

Am I the only one that feels this is getting old meaning that we get a real penalty in dps mode while all other classes don't?

Its more of a reversal. Rather then NEEDING to trait to get a powerful CC, we already have it unless we trait heavily into DPS. The fact that out of MoNF means we can potentially keep two creatures CCed with this skill alone for quite some time should say something. The fact its only this CC that is crippled by going MoNF, leaving us our Root alone, halving the cool-down on a hard hitting Stun (LotRD), then FURTHER lowering the cool-down on Ents is just useful with its Stun.

I'll admit, it WOULD be nice if it could be like War-speech where some of the +DPS was on a stance/buff along with the penalty to Blinding Flash. That way in emergencies, fellowships/raids we could drop the stance/buff to get back the full Blinding Flash duration without needing to hit a Bard. Especially in instances, where that blasted run can take FOREVER.

First though, I want pets fixed. KoA is really hurting from the badly scaling pets, to the point I'm about to start messing with Ancient Master with the Eagle over it instead for my soloing the 70k trees at level 75. Before I could at least think of them, no matter how much self-delusion it was, that they made up for all our skills having all those inductions. Now, their damage is pointless. The Bear's barely meets a minimum when in full KoA for its auto-attacks.

Originally Posted by Despotis

Am I the only one that feels this is getting old meaning that we get a real penalty in dps mode while all other classes don't?

Nope, as noted 30s BF and 5 - 7 in MoNF would be OP. Give me the ability to permalock 2 mobs with BF and 12K Lightning and ISG and LotRD, and.... We would be t0o awesome to consider. As it is back in the day they had to reset the bosses to BF imune so LMs could not over run the game. Other classes as wqell have the same trade off. Generally speaking Minies have to choose bewteen WS and heals, RKs have to attune heals or DPS, etc. So it is not a class nerf, just good game balance.

I know one thing if i had blinding flash i would be close to invincible the whole lm DPS focuses on mobs not attacking you, with stuns and slows and dots you can effectively kill without being hit. give a MONF lm blinding flash and he can take on up to 5 or 6 mobs,

even without blinding flash our main CC we still have sticky tar, CE, herb-lore, BE(slow) all of which is useful in locking down mobs, with blinding flash we become very OP. also this takes away the point from traits if you choose 1 path you are only effective in that path.

Originally Posted by Guiwinner

like every normal game a buff give you one bonus and one malus ... only wow have only buff skill :P cause it's a game for children

It's the same for every class, like ministrell start to use his dps stance can't heal other the lore master with dps trait become a less cc player, another point is the crached eart become only a 15 sec root after 10 sec

It's all good for the game !!

I don't have all classes, so I don't know, does any other class got some of their skills directly reduced when traiting?

Originally Posted by dragerslayer

check out the other effect on the 3 trait set bonus(it might be 4 now that i think about it)

-15s LOTRD CD

this is HUGE that's 1k extra damage every 15s at my level atleast

Actually, when deep red traited, you start using LotRD more as a stun than a damage, to offset BF nerf.

All of what you're saying is correct and further proves my point that burglar is in fact in a huge imbalance compared to classes atm. Huge dps, debuffs that stack, CC that remains untouched by dps traits. And you're worrying that BF in monf would make us OP.

It's true that monf doubles our dps which is by nature low and we can only join raids in AM traits which always makes me wonder if a burglar in the LM's position would help the raid more. Game's been getting a new direction with the dps changes since roi and the LM is still in a good place as he was before but most classes are beyond that place months now.

Originally Posted by Despotis

All of what you're saying is correct and further proves my point that burglar is in fact in a huge imbalance compared to classes atm. Huge dps, debuffs that stack, CC that remains untouched by dps traits. And you're worrying that BF in monf would make us OP.

It's true that monf doubles our dps which is by nature low and we can only join raids in AM traits which always makes me wonder if a burglar in the LM's position would help the raid more. Game's been getting a new direction with the dps changes since roi and the LM is still in a good place as he was before but most classes are beyond that place months now.

I'm not sure I agree with this. Ive not been a burgler yet so I can't comment on that part, but I've still yet to be a class that is as panick free as a well thought out Lore Master. Yes it takes more time, but the class is considered advanced. I'd still rather have my Lore Master over my Warden for instance, and definitely over my Minstrel or Captain. The other day in Moria I solo'd an elite three to four levels above me with his three guards also above me, and I got out without losing a bit of health other than from my skills. Granted I don't know what the very late game is like but although it takes longer to kill things we're in the same good place if not better than other classes I am familiar with.

To be honest, if we are going to talk about removing unnecessary features from the Loremaster class, then remove the morale cost of our skills... Now that is an unnecessary feature when you reach the higher levels. It doesn't have any effect other than a symbolic one anyway, especially in group content. In my oppinion, I actually like the fact that one of our CC skills gets penalized for traiting deep into the DPS line. It makes me think a little harder about what I'm going to trait, instead of just mindlessly strapping on all the DPS traits I got without any concerns. I can still CC very well if I must, only in a different way than the easy mezz. No reason to complain if you ask me!

And on the burglars not having any CC penalties when traiting DPS, do bear in mind that we have a huge arsenal of burst AoE DPS (one of the best, if not the best), while the burglars have none, thus we are better equiped to deal with a few extra mobs. Just burn them down(I'm talking solo play here). I think it's ok this way if you ask me.

Originally Posted by Despotis

All of what you're saying is correct and further proves my point that burglar is in fact in a huge imbalance compared to classes atm. Huge dps, debuffs that stack, CC that remains untouched by dps traits. And you're worrying that BF in monf would make us OP.

It's true that monf doubles our dps which is by nature low and we can only join raids in AM traits which always makes me wonder if a burglar in the LM's position would help the raid more. Game's been getting a new direction with the dps changes since roi and the LM is still in a good place as he was before but most classes are beyond that place months now.

It seems you're ignoring a very important thing in this comparison. Burg dps, debuffs and cc are almost totally single target. A single burg cannot stack the same debuff over and over on the same target nor can the burg stack multiple debuffs on the same target. This is the exact opposite of the LM. Therefore, it makes a lot of sense for the burg to do higher single target dps. I can tell you right now that I can kill a group of mobs a lot faster with my LM than I can with my burg since I just have to sling around some AoEs and my LM is done with the group. My burg has to fight each mob seperately. The advantage with my burg is the ability to stun/mez quite a few targets even if I have to do most of that individually. However, I have to be traited rather deep in Gambler to do this quickly and easily and it's one of the reasons I prefer to trait blue on my burg.

I think it's obvious that you do not know how the two classes work similarly and yet differently. It would probably not be a good idea to make such a generalization like this again. There's a very good reason why burg debuffs (from different burgs) of the same type will stack whereas LM debuffs of the same type will not stack. If LM debuffs of the same type stacked, every piece of content in the game would be trivial or would one shot everyone unless at least half the group was AM traited LMs.

I can tell you that LMs are just fine where they are. I definitely do not have any dps or survivability problems on my LM and am more than capable of filling the roles required of an LM. I definitely have not seen any type of wide differential formed between the abilities of the LM and other classes. I also happen to have a mini and RK at 75, two classes who have gotten recent makeovers, and my LM is by no means outclassed by them in the PvE aspect of the game.

If you want a class who can complain about overall dps, roll a cappy and take it to 75. While the cappy doesn't have to bore everything to death like previously, the dps still isn't exactly the best. I can kill almost anything faster with my other four 75s than I can with my cappy.

Let's make something clear first, solo play is not my concern in these posts. It's a big part of a class but soloing one way or another you're gonna succeed. Being it slow or fast dps, aoe or not you are gonna reach level 75.

Raidwise, we're interested in the boss fights which like it or not in RoI can't be done without proper dps. That's a bad direction for the game in my opinion but that's another matter to discuss. Now in those fights you have 1 target which is the boss. And that's where my post aims at. Being a LM I can debuff the boss yeah, I can increase damage dealt by my team yeah, but my dps is low. Burg can do all those things and also dps like mad. And another fact, my capt does way more dps in those fights even with a 2nd ager.

I also admit that I use exaggeration to make a point go through, but I'm just trying to motivate some thoughts that may haven't occured to others.

If your geared decent then you should be able to have the same dps as a hunter/champ if you use ur dps right
if we could get 30s mez aswell while doing that much dps then we would be the most OP class
so no problem getting a penalty for doing dps.
only place you need the 30s mez is in raids anyway

Probably the real valid change request, if any, would be supporting the idea that some of the change is possible via stance similar to a burg swapping gambler/mischief etc or a minnie in and out of warspeech.

Stance x 3
Contemplative, bias towards AM traits,increase to CC effects, say +10s on BF, -10s cd on Fire Lore +1min cd on Ents, no ISG
Empathic, bias towards KoA traits, pet gets 5% morale boots and 5% threat boost, 25% bonus flank heal and combat summon 10m cd
Furious, ISG available with 2m cd, -10s BF cd, 1m off Ents cd

Contemplative cannot be selected when 4+ AM traits, Empathic not with 4+ KoA traits, Furious not with 4+ MONF traits

I am sure others can improve on this

Originally Posted by Rafnman

If your geared decent then you should be able to have the same dps as a hunter/champ if you use ur dps right

Ermmm ... no.

Originally Posted by Juanra

Ermmm ... no.

never can have the same dps of a champ hunter or RK
Only good point are the aoe for trash in the istance.
You can have a dps live 1200 and for few sec you can go to 2000 dps but ... after 20 sec you will see your dps burn dawn

Atm a RK can have easily one dps of 1700 on single target and i think can do more with a good equip.
Lore master can have 1000 dps is enought :P on single target !

Interesting discussion.

My focus is mainly on solo LM. I have been pets since the get-go, but having hit 70 felt like a change and moved to MoNF. Of course, straight away I happened to hit a quest where two mobs attacked, then another 2, then 3 - nearly died as I struggled to cope without my customary cc.

Got through it, and am now working on some new rotations. I will be interested to see how I manage solo instances where I usually mez the lieutenant while I kill his smaller companions; won't have the 30 sec gap now so will need some careful thought as this approach is all new to me.

Nice to be able to have such interesting times so late in my journey.

Originally Posted by trcanberra

I will be interested to see how I manage solo instances where I usually mez the lieutenant while I kill his smaller companions; won't have the 30 sec gap now so will need some careful thought as this approach is all new to me.

Herb-lore is my friend in MoNF, as well as Cracked Earth -> Blinding Flash. The early combo makes up in most cases for the lack of Blinding Flash at the start of a fight. The later Combo, can allow you to almost keep a target perma-rooted. Just hit the target with a Cracked Earth followed by a Blinding Flash, around 5 sec before the root wears off, and you are good to go. It may move a bit, if the C.Earth breaks the previous root, but that is where the Blinding Flash helps prevent it from moving too much. Also, don't forget Call of the Valar resets your Herb-lore in case you really need to root the target for 30 secs immediately.
-Useful and relearned trying to distract a Troll in Limlight while in MoNF.
-Note: Also, don't expect this to work against Ranged Mobs.

Originally Posted by RobertLie

Herb-lore is my friend in MoNF, as well as Cracked Earth -> Blinding Flash. The early combo makes up in most cases for the lack of Blinding Flash at the start of a fight. The later Combo, can allow you to almost keep a target perma-rooted. Just hit the target with a Cracked Earth followed by a Blinding Flash, around 5 sec before the root wears off, and you are good to go. It may move a bit, if the C.Earth breaks the previous root, but that is where the Blinding Flash helps prevent it from moving too much. Also, don't forget Call of the Valar resets your Herb-lore in case you really need to root the target for 30 secs immediately.
-Useful and relearned trying to distract a Troll in Limlight while in MoNF.
-Note: Also, don't expect this to work against Ranged Mobs.

Thanks - had almost forgotten Herb-lore after using the flash for so long. I will make sure to keep it and Call of the Valar in mind - never had much need for either before

Master of Nature's Fury makes the Lore-Master playable! Seriously, it's that good. It really helps my LM deal out the damage and survive where he wouldn't have before. Great trait set.