Thema: of the sorry state of Guardians

Zitat von Hsahsirg

after you get past 1m parses that show nothing more than burst it's not that far off.

I've seen a 10m+ solo Champ parse with a token and scroll (+ store power pots ofc) that was around 2,150 DPS. I've seen a 3m Hunter parse over 2,000, and I will soon see if Burgs with the new PvP set can parse over 2,000 over long durations (I suspect yes).

I don't know what your Guard is parsing, but I think that is quite a big gap.

Zitat von Hsahsirg

Burgs are the closest to guards still but for the same reasons as before they bring higher group damage.

Burg and Guard are the two classes I play; my Guard is my main and I spend a lot of time trying to achieve the best DPS possible on both of them.

Pre Isen the ST DPS between them was close. Post Isen my Guard would be lucky to do 2/3 of my Burglars damage (more like 75% before the moors set).








I could pick up on a lot more of your points but at the end of the day everyone is going to have different views on DPS than others depending on how good the few people they compare with are (or just their preconceived notions). I'd wager I've seen a much wider range of comparative parses than most people.

Hopefully we can at least agree that our DPS is comparatively much worse off than it was pre Isen.

Zitat von Hsahsirg

IWhy would you want to [tank] now? Have a champ tank if you can tank it in OP. Doesn't make sense that if you need a tank using a glory champ and having a guard toss PbtS on him will pull far more DPS than if you had the champ DPSing and used a guard running SnB. And it would still be clearly better if that guard was a champ... fun class design.

Not quite sure what you're saying here, but the ability to tank stuff while in OP was and is most of the allure of the Stance for me. Why have a Glory Champ and OP Guard when you could have an OP Guard and a Fervor Champ..

Zitat von Evendale

I've seen a 10m+ solo Champ parse with a token and scroll (+ store power pots ofc) that was around 2,150 DPS. I've seen a 3m Hunter parse over 2,000, and I will soon see if Burgs with the new PvP set can parse over 2,000 over long durations (I suspect yes).

These personal parses or what? I spent a bit of time looking around for a 10m+ champ parse that high and couldn't find it or the hunter parse. Those numbers are possible I'm sure but a guard with equal gear/ability to play isn't as far behind as people make them out to be.

Zitat von Evendale

I don't know what your Guard is parsing, but I think that is quite a big gap.

I'll try digging up some SSs later.

Zitat von Evendale

Burg and Guard are the two classes I play; my Guard is my main and I spend a lot of time trying to achieve the best DPS possible on both of them.

Pre Isen the ST DPS between them was close. Post Isen my Guard would be lucky to do 2/3 of my Burglars damage (more like 75% before the moors set).

Are your burg and guard geared the same? If they are fair enough, but something tells me they aren't at the same place gear wise.

Zitat von Evendale

Hopefully we can at least agree that our DPS is comparatively much worse off than it was pre Isen.

Yes it is worse, but it's not THAT much worse, people are making it seem as if guards are doing less damage than freshly level capped champions and hunters.

Zitat von Evendale

Not quite sure what you're saying here, but the ability to tank stuff while in OP was and is most of the allure of the Stance for me. Why have a Glory Champ and OP Guard when you could have an OP Guard and a Fervor Champ..

I said if an actual tank was needed (...yeah...) having a SnB guard and a fervour champion would provide less DPS than if you had the guard go into OP and the champ go into glory. The DPS difference between a glory champ and a SnB guard more than makes up for the DPS difference of a fervour champ and a OP guard and the guard will be getting more parry responses too because of the champions higher parry. With the added insurance of being able to toss on a ton of vit gear and SW if things start to go bad.

And like I said if a OP guard could tank it than a fervour champ can in which case again the DPS would be higher if you went with the champ. And like you said an OP guard can't hold aggro off of a champion going all out, outside classes helping out would make it easier (they should be doing it anyways no matter who the tank is) but even if the DPS has to throttle back for a few extra seconds at the start that's DPS wasted, and something that wasn't needed before.

Zitat von Evendale

Yes and yes.

LMs have more burst AoE dps than anyone but in a fight of any reasonable duration where LMs can't pad their damage via their long cooldown skills, Champions, Hunters, and yes even Guardians, will do more damage.

Tbh I can't be certain that's still the case post-isen but Guardians were way ahead pre-isen so I can't imagine they've fallen that far.



Hunters have insane AoE as long as they slot the 3 required traits for it.

What are you talking about?

LM can outdps a hunter in a long fight with multiple mobs.

Sticky gourd can be on the ground 100% of the time, thats 100 damage/second (actually is 400 each 4 seconds) ... per each mob. Meaning that if theres 7 mobs on it, a LM is doing 700 damage a second with just 1 skill and can keep it all the time.

And yes, the Ents have 2 min CD, but it will take quite a lot time for a guardian just to equal that damage in multiple mob fight. With 5 mobs, a crit with Ent can do 25K damage, a devastated will be over 30K. Seriously, you want to equal that with what?

To be honest, I think you are complete dreamer about Guardians AoE dps.

Zitat von Hsahsirg

Are your burg and guard geared the same? If they are fair enough, but something tells me they aren't at the same place gear wise.

Well it is true my Burglar has slightly better DPS gear than my Guardian but not enough to make that significant of a difference I wouldn't think.

Zitat von Hsahsirg

I said if an actual tank was needed (...yeah...) having a SnB guard and a fervour champion would provide less DPS than if you had the guard go into OP and the champ go into glory. The DPS difference between a glory champ and a SnB guard more than makes up for the DPS difference of a fervour champ and a OP guard and the guard will be getting more parry responses too because of the champions higher parry. With the added insurance of being able to toss on a ton of vit gear and SW if things start to go bad.

And like I said if a OP guard could tank it than a fervour champ can in which case again the DPS would be higher if you went with the champ. And like you said an OP guard can't hold aggro off of a champion going all out, outside classes helping out would make it easier (they should be doing it anyways no matter who the tank is) but even if the DPS has to throttle back for a few extra seconds at the start that's DPS wasted, and something that wasn't needed before.

I guess the whole point I am trying to make is that pre Isen we could tank almost everything in OP (a couple of raid bosses excepted), while comfortably holding aggro. It was a lot easier to OP tank stuff than it was to Fervor tank stuff.

Now, as you say, if an OP guard can tank it a Fervor champ probably can (I agree that's probably true in most cases now). Pre-isen the survivability difference was larger between Fervor Champs and OP Guards (inc healing debuff in Fervor) and smaller between OP Guards and SnB Guards (gear changes), so that wasn't really the case.

The number of things we can comfortably tank in OP now is limited (Foundry + Isen 3 mans + a couple of other niche things), and even when we do tank in OP its practically impossible to hold ST aggro over good DPSers.

Thus why I feel we've lost a stance, even if the comparative loss in DPS isn't that great (though I still think it is).

It sounds like you might agree with that?



Looking forward to seeing your parse(s) anyway.

I'll agree with you Even. Although I've also noticed that it's gotten more difficult to hold aggro against good DPSers without GT up, so there may be something screwy with the rise in FA DPS vs FA belt legacies as well. OP tanking was definitely something that was possible but is not so much anymore because of the lower DPS. I don't know if that's intended by Turbine or not.

Zitat von Hsahsirg

I'm saying the champs that put the same amount of effort into a tank spec as a guard would will tank better than a guard. And the times it was brought up before guards were actually doing damage that was the same as champs or in some cases better and champs were still kings of threat because of RB and ire skills.

I also remember those, and IIRC Roov was one of your kins main tanks at the time.

I'll still disagree that guards are inferior to champs at tanking. I think there's some merit to our DPS output being low (in both OP and S&B actually) but if champs were easier to heal and could tank better, I think we'd hear a lot more people agreeing with you - and a lot more raiding groups dumping their guards. One of the main reasons Roov was able to main tank in fervour was (disregarding any changes from Isen) because Malibu and Lucibell were/are amazing healers. We still didn't fervour tank the LT or any of the raid bosses in OD.

I'll also agree with an earlier post about guards being used a lot to learn raids but later being replaced or substituted with other classes as other people in the raid get better gear and more used to the fights. That still doesn't make a champ a better choice for tanking though if healers can't keep up. The simple logic is if inc damage>inc healing, game over.

Zitat von Hsahsirg

How many times will this have to be gone over?

LMs have burst AoE with medium CDs other than that their AoE isn't that impressive, maybe next update a LM will be able to reset ents with ISG. Until then yes, a guard or a hunter will out DPS them in sustained AoE.

TBH, I'd love if you post an AoE rotation for guards to outdps a LM.

Y, other than burst damage, the LM AoE is not that impressive, but its still way better than what a Guardian have.

It is kind of funny...
I have tried a burglar and a champion both.
Not really liking either one.
But the guardian!
I love the reactive quality of it all.
Outlasting an opponent 3 or 4 levels higher than myself is a real BOOYA! moment.
Yeah, i can't lay down the smack-down, but I'm not looking for that.
in fact, I coupled my Guardian with the armor-smithing and got some really strong armor to keep myself in the game even longer.
I'm also cultivating an alt weapon-smith to get him a much better sword than can be found as loot or reward.
I think the predominant issue is one of style.
I have not seen Warden but I have a sneaking suspicion that it is some sort of "Super-Guardian" with even more options and crazy effects.
Maybe look into Warden?
EDIT: I was mostly replying to page one as it was what I was reading when the mood struck me to post.

I agree on the fight animations... compared to other classes the swings are very chunky and unrealistic. It seems as though my arms are in a fixed elbow position and and the lower torso does not move.

But it is not a game breaker by no means....

I agree increasing the DPS in OP stance would erase the limits between Guardians and Champs. All the same, some Champs are complaining on the forums about not being sturdier...because they like to be able to tank everything. Well, we all want to be an invulnerable killing machine.

But i also agree the Guardian can receive some "specialties", which could improve their solo fighting skills and also make them more desirable in groups (without increasing the DPS). For exemple, more stuns, especially in OP stance. Guards can become the "stun specialist" of the party.

This would really increase the OP stance usefulness in raids (so more invites for OP Guards), and Guardian desirability overall, preserving in the same time their classic tank role.

Zitat von crooner

However even if we are awesome tanks, and if the tanking gameplay is already not too bad, I'd love an evolution to a more aggressive gameplay, mainly with shorter animations and a bit more emphasis on threat generated through damage.

I agree, sometimes aggro doesn't seem dynamic enough. However, I don't think I've exhausted combinations of virtues, traits, settings, and armor pieces to spice it up.

ok do agree guard need a better OP set up tho// increase stagger//
CAb on a shorter CD seperate from block chain..maybe like a WLs heal/power restore///have guards ward and pledge change in over power..how about more of that self healing armour we use to have in morea? i would love to know if orion is working on our class next with hunters??? any hints? he make way awesome char.changes?? please anyone??any devs?? hints??

I've had two guardians, and barely play the one I didn't delete BUT that being said, it's fun when I do actually log in and play it.
If I want to destroy everything I see, I play my champ. If I want to play a bit differently, I play another character. Maybe you should give Warden a try to shake things up a bit

Zitat von Evanirsb

This class plays exactly the same way it did before the Mines of Moria. Slow animations, low damage, missing skills at low level obsolete skills at high level. No dps build.

-Guardians are too dependent on having block even or parry event. This is very bad at the start of the fight because you don't have aoe threat skills ready. This events should be removed.

-Threat only skills like Litany of Defiance, Shield-taunt. Minstrel cry skills do damage, somehow the guardian cry doesn't do any damage.

-Shield damage scales very bad and depends a lot on the guard belt.

first off ur a tank not a DPS class, and seriously, u have aggro problems? i dont ever have aggro problems. not even in the begining of fights, the only aggro problem i have is i have 2 much aggro and can stand around smoking pipeweed and not lose aggro, as a tank i embrace my job is to tank not do damage, so idc if we do any damage with shield or with cry...

Zitat von RogueX

first off ur a tank not a DPS class, and seriously, u have aggro problems? i dont ever have aggro problems. not even in the begining of fights, the only aggro problem i have is i have 2 much aggro and can stand around smoking pipeweed and not lose aggro, as a tank i embrace my job is to tank not do damage, so idc if we do any damage with shield or with cry...

Yup looks like the Guard forums have degenerated down to the same levels as the Warden forums now ... when all that's left to express your frustration is silly gifs.

Zitat von RogueX

first off ur a tank not a DPS class, and seriously, u have aggro problems? i dont ever have aggro problems. not even in the begining of fights, the only aggro problem i have is i have 2 much aggro and can stand around smoking pipeweed and not lose aggro, as a tank i embrace my job is to tank not do damage, so idc if we do any damage with shield or with cry...

I sometimes lose aggro in raids, as any guard should. We are meant to be unable to keep aggro from dpsers going all out.

When the dps is ~2k or even higher they will catch up after a while. Even worlds best tank with ideal gear is gonna lose against something like 2.3k dps.

Losing aggro happens, wether you like it or not, don't make me believe you never lost it... Unless you play with complete idiots running around with level 60 LIs

Zitat von CuruornEU

I sometimes lose aggro in raids, as any guard should. We are meant to be unable to keep aggro from dpsers going all out.

When the dps is ~2k or even higher they will catch up after a while. Even worlds best tank with ideal gear is gonna lose against something like 2.3k dps.

Losing aggro happens, wether you like it or not, don't make me believe you never lost it... Unless you play with complete idiots running around with level 60 LIs

ok let me rephrase...i rarely lose aggro, bring any dpser u want to ridder and let me tank for u, as soon as i make the pull i tell all dpsers they can go all out, cuz im able 2 hold aggro. its not hard to build enough aggro to hold it, anyone with any understanding of grdian class will hold aggro easily...think its funny when ppl say their r so many problems with each class, when in reality they just need to learn each skill and what it does/meant to do.

Zitat von RogueX

ok let me rephrase...i rarely lose aggro, bring any dpser u want to ridder and let me tank for u, as soon as i make the pull i tell all dpsers they can go all out, cuz im able 2 hold aggro. its not hard to build enough aggro to hold it, anyone with any understanding of grdian class will hold aggro easily...think its funny when ppl say their r so many problems with each class, when in reality they just need to learn each skill and what it does/meant to do.

must not feed trolls....

Good luck holding aggro over Bukot in T2c where you won't get any blockresponses and your finesse is reduced to zero. *feeds troll*

Zitat von Evendale

Yup looks like the Guard forums have degenerated down to the same levels as the Warden forums now ... when all that's left to express your frustration is silly gifs.

Gotta do what ya gotta do to get a rise out of someone. Sometimes that GiF expresses what you are thinking better than words can ya know?

I don't play a Guardian so I can't really comment on how bad you guys have it, but I would like you to consider this.

Some classes are good at filling multiple roles while others are not. This is the way it was intended.
In my opinion the two classes that fill the single role description are Hunter and Guards.
I would not bring a hunter as a tank, healer or support class. I would bring them in group play as DPS because that is what they EXCELL at.

Sure asking for some tweaks for better fluidity and feel is usually a good thing, the Devs are usually pretty good at listening to the feedback and acting upon it (not always with the desired effect, but they still do something). Calling your class in a 'sorry state' because you are not able to do a secondary role as well as other classes is taking it a bit far.

Two things I would love to see:

Replace the +damage legacies with +critical rating legacies on Vexing Blow and Sweeping Cut. Give blue cap a bit easier time with those crit ratings to land a stacked Litany... Without making TTK too much of a sure thing to land a FM.

Give Brutal Assault a 50% change to bleed as a default: It's completely underwhelming as is.

Increase the red cap to a 100% chance to bleed, and grant a couple of additional ticks so that stacking this skill up to 4 times is possible with the +bleed pulse legacy maxed out.

That should help the guard's OP DPS when traited for it, and a 'let them bleed to death while I turtle up' sounds like a Guardian tactic to me.

Just my 2 coppers on the topic.

Zitat von Eadondryt

This is the way it was intended. In my opinion the two classes that fill the single role description are Hunter and Guards. I would not bring a hunter as a tank, healer or support class.

Actually I've met a fair number of hunters complaining that their CC trait line is sup-par - they would love being able to CC properly besides providing DPS in raids.

The other thing to consider in this comparison is that hunters have 3 trait lines focusing mostly on DPS, whereas guardians have 2 for tanking and one for DPS specifically. That's why we have an orthanc amour set for it even, the Laighathel.

If would be fair to assume that these armour sets are not for levelling, just to prevent some smart*sses inserting that the overpower trait line is a leveling spec :-D

All the guardians are asking is just to be able to use both playstyles in groups as intended - just like wardens are capable of doing both tanking and dpsing now. If they invest the time to get the proper armour set, weapons with legacies and so on, then they should be able to use it in the end-game raids, not just in the Moors.

i love how defencive ppl get just because someone finds something easy, and maybe its harder for them? hehe =P owell

Zitat von Neverwhere616

I like this thread, every person complaining in it apparently wishes they rolled a champion.

Why do people always say this?

There is a huge difference in the playstyle of an OP Guard and a Champ. Their combat flow is way different. The Guard has a certain rhythm to it, tanking and OP, that I personally find more enjoyable than the Champ. Why is it such an issue for an already existing DPS trait line be made viable enough to fill in the DPS role for group content without having to beg? You guys are right, for the most part Guard tanking is fine. Guard DPS is not. We're not playing Everquest- I like the Guardian for its skills and playstyle, not strictly because it's a "tank class".

Zitat von RogueX

ok let me rephrase...i rarely lose aggro, bring any dpser u want to ridder and let me tank for u, as soon as i make the pull i tell all dpsers they can go all out, cuz im able 2 hold aggro. its not hard to build enough aggro to hold it, anyone with any understanding of grdian class will hold aggro easily...think its funny when ppl say their r so many problems with each class, when in reality they just need to learn each skill and what it does/meant to do.

Off of scrubs and people with "meh" builds, yes, it's easy to hold aggro. Off of people pumping out 2700+ sustained dps? And early spikes that are even higher than that? Sorry man, but if your dps classes can't pull aggro if they wanted to you just haven't seen how hard people can be hitting.

All I ever hear about Ridder is that the PvP is great (although heard rumors of the opposite lately) and that the PvE is awful. Seeing as you only have one kin with Lightning challenge and nothing else, I'm going to assume you haven't tried things like tanking Acid challenge in 1:40 or Shadow challenge? Please correct me if I'm wrong as I realize not everyone posts in that thread.

No offense to anyone on Ridder - I consider the people I know over there to be top notch players (although they're either full-time creeps or have given up playing their freeps there, at this point) - but solely judging by what I hear and what I see as far as progression: its not a PvE server. And generating the type of individual dps that does things like 1:40 Acid Challenge not only takes well-geared, well-played chars, but well-geared, well-played supporting casts and group makeups.


Bottom line: If you never lose aggro with your dps classes going all out from the start, its more a reflection of them than yourself.

Zitat von Roodie

Just my 2 coppers on the topic.


Actually I've met a fair number of hunters complaining that their CC trait line is sup-par - they would love being able to CC properly besides providing DPS in raids.

The other thing to consider in this comparison is that hunters have 3 trait lines focusing mostly on DPS, whereas guardians have 2 for tanking and one for DPS specifically. That's why we have an orthanc amour set for it even, the Laighathel.

If would be fair to assume that these armour sets are not for levelling, just to prevent some smart*sses inserting that the overpower trait line is a leveling spec :-D

All the guardians are asking is just to be able to use both playstyles in groups as intended - just like wardens are capable of doing both tanking and dpsing now. If they invest the time to get the proper armour set, weapons with legacies and so on, then they should be able to use it in the end-game raids, not just in the Moors.

Yeah for sure, I totally agree that the guards DPS could do with improving, however my point was that guards are not in a 'sorry state' they just need some tweaks, like all the other classes. Posting some constructive ideas to the Devs would be better than the tone the OP set.

Zitat von harman097

Off of scrubs and people with "meh" builds, yes, it's easy to hold aggro. Off of people pumping out 2700+ sustained dps? And early spikes that are even higher than that? Sorry man, but if your dps classes can't pull aggro if they wanted to you just haven't seen how hard people can be hitting.

All I ever hear about Ridder is that the PvP is great (although heard rumors of the opposite lately) and that the PvE is awful. Seeing as you only have one kin with Lightning challenge and nothing else, I'm going to assume you haven't tried things like tanking Acid challenge in 1:40 or Shadow challenge? Please correct me if I'm wrong as I realize not everyone posts in that thread.

No offense to anyone on Ridder - I consider the people I know over there to be top notch players (although they're either full-time creeps or have given up playing their freeps there, at this point) - but solely judging by what I hear and what I see as far as progression: its not a PvE server. And generating the type of individual dps that does things like 1:40 Acid Challenge not only takes well-geared, well-played chars, but well-geared, well-played supporting casts and group makeups.


Bottom line: If you never lose aggro with your dps classes going all out from the start, its more a reflection of them than yourself.

meh can say what u want but from what i understand of ur comment its all hearsay... i hear chocolate chip cookies r good but how will i know if i nvr try them? cant base statements off hearsay, its just foolish. but back to my previous statement if u have any friends or know anyone who transfered to ridder have them IM me b glad to tank for them, then they can show me how much i suck, i would love for that, i like a challenge

Zitat von RogueX

meh can say what u want but from what i understand of ur comment its all hearsay... i hear chocolate chip cookies r good but how will i know if i nvr try them? cant base statements off hearsay, its just foolish. but back to my previous statement if u have any friends or know anyone who transfered to ridder have them IM me b glad to tank for them, then they can show me how much i suck, i would love for that, i like a challenge

Part of what I'm saying is hearsay - fine, lets throw those comments out.

Back to the facts and my original question: Riddermark has no kinships listed as beating Acid (challenge or regular) or Shadow (challenge or regular). Am I correct in assuming you have not tried to tank for a group that can do 1:40 Acid Challenge or Shadow Challenge?

Those are the two hardest situations to hold aggro through, afaik, given the type of dps that needs to be done to complete them. In fact, I have yet to see a screenie of a 1:40 Acid Kill with a guard tanking (although I think it could be done). If you haven't been tested in the hardest of aggro holding situations, how are you able to make the claims that you're making?

Zitat von harman097

Part of what I'm saying is hearsay - fine, lets throw those comments out.

Back to the facts and my original question: Riddermark has no kinships listed as beating Acid (challenge or regular) or Shadow (challenge or regular). Am I correct in assuming you have not tried to tank for a group that can do 1:40 Acid Challenge or Shadow Challenge?

Those are the two hardest situations to hold aggro through, afaik, given the type of dps that needs to be done to complete them. In fact, I have yet to see a screenie of a 1:40 Acid Kill with a guard tanking (although I think it could be done). If you haven't been tested in the hardest of aggro holding situations, how are you able to make the claims that you're making?

i havnt had the opportunity to tank them tier 2, but i have tanked all of BG challenge when lvl cap was 65 and basically all other raids, once again had no problem with aggro, but then again everyone on our server has bad dps xD lolz jk, BUT my reason for posting on the forums in the first place was to make a point, everyone always thinks their class needs to b buffed, so everything is easier, when in reality ppl just ned to learn more about their class, since grds r really quite a balanced class considering how some classes have been very OP or very underpowered in the past.

Zitat von RogueX

i havnt had the opportunity to tank them tier 2, but i have tanked all of BG challenge when lvl cap was 65 and basically all other raids, once again had no problem with aggro, but then again everyone on our server has bad dps xD lolz jk, BUT my reason for posting on the forums in the first place was to make a point, everyone always thinks their class needs to b buffed, so everything is easier, when in reality ppl just ned to learn more about their class, since grds r really quite a balanced class considering how some classes have been very OP or very underpowered in the past.

Lol.... Just amazing...

DPS has almost tripled since the levelcap was raised from 65 to 75. Geared out hunters can even do 4x as much as they used to. Holding aggro has become a lot harder with bosses dying in ~3 minutes and in these 3 minutes 1.5 million goes down.

I'm not saying I have any trouble with aggro, as I'm doing just fine. Occasionally lose aggro to one of our burgs when he's just about to HiPS. But please don't come here insulting people when you have no up-to-date knowledge of the current raids and tanking mechanics.

Zitat von CuruornEU

Lol.... Just amazing...

DPS has almost tripled since the levelcap was raised from 65 to 75. Geared out hunters can even do 4x as much as they used to. Holding aggro has become a lot harder with bosses dying in ~3 minutes and in these 3 minutes 1.5 million goes down.

I'm not saying I have any trouble with aggro, as I'm doing just fine. Occasionally lose aggro to one of our burgs when he's just about to HiPS. But please don't come here insulting people when you have no up-to-date knowledge of the current raids and tanking mechanics.

wait so u dont have trouble holding aggro but i must have trouble...just cuz it changed? lolz fool
and i nvr insulted anyone, i just said holding aggro isnt as difficult as most ppl say, and that the grd class doesnt really need a whole lot of change

Zitat von RogueX

wait so u dont have trouble holding aggro but i must have trouble...just cuz it changed? lolz fool
and i nvr insulted anyone, i just said holding aggro isnt as difficult as most ppl say, and that the grd class doesnt really need a whole lot of change

Your credibility is sub-par. Sorry dude.

Holding aggro is not as hard as it may seem, but it really comes down to the people you are playing together with.

If you have champions in your group, lashing out DPS onto their targets - also let them ire onto you.

If you have hunters to put out a higher DPS, let them do that, but remember to include whirling retaliation into your rotation.

If you have burglars who pull aggro off you, then you should slap them hard Most burglars in Tower of Orthanc will be using Quiet Knife, which also gives reduced threat.

Captains pulling aggro? Get your tanking skills sorted!

Wardens stealing your enemies, kick them out from your raid

All in all, with the right trait lines and good teamwork, you will be able to keep aggro on just about anything. But to make things work smoother, just make use of a burglars provoke, a champions ire and make sure that your guardians belt have passives built for threat generation.

Play around with a combination of tanking in block stance and threat stance, sometimes you will see that starting in threat stance (with +28% threat if traited) and then switch over to block stance will give some rather nice results for aggro management.

If, however you do loose aggro, use engage, followed by a whirling retaliation to get you back on top.

Burgs should never get aggro. Provoke is amazing.

Zitat von jhwort

Your credibility is sub-par. Sorry dude.

u know nothing about me, talk 2 people that know me then come question my credibility

Zitat von RogueX

u know nothing about me, talk 2 people that know me then come question my credibility

All that needs to be known is right here:

Zitat von RogueX

i havnt had the opportunity to tank them tier 2, but i have tanked all of BG challenge when lvl cap was 65 (lvl 65 is not lvl 75 - game has changed just a little bit since then. Should we discuss our lvl 50 rift tanking experiences while we're at it?) and basically all other raids (all other raids = draigoch? and skirm raids?)

Sorry man, but if you haven't attempted content in which it's difficult to hold aggro, you have absolutely no grounds for making statements like

bring any dpser u want to ridder and let me tank for u, as soon as i make the pull i tell all dpsers they can go all out, cuz im able 2 hold aggro. its not hard to build enough aggro to hold it, anyone with any understanding of grdian class will hold aggro easily...

It's the equivalent to pwn'ing a freaver 1v1 and then, based off that occurence, going on to claim that anyone with any understanding of the guardian class will beat any and all reavers easily.

I like it when I have to switch to threat stance. I run in block 90% of the time and have no issues other than wardens or a DPS with a couple of good crits early on. If I do lose a mob, a quick switch to threat will usually bring them back, amd if that doesnt work, what are all those force taunts for? I really like it when a group forces me to run completley in threat. When this happens I know the DPS that is happening is intense, and I like that. I am there for my squishies, even tho I may poke fun at them occasionally. I want them running on the ragged edge of what I can hold at all times.

I honestly do not care about our DPS when I am tanking as long as I have the tools to keep threat. I would like to see CAB fixed, and OP power consumption tweaked a little (for the occasional time I dont have to be MT), and the man heal updated(that used to be my favorite "O' ####" button). Those are really minor items in all.

If you want to DPS, roll a champ. They are fun (shing shing anyone?), and tough, and when he is capped it will be a nice way for me to have a nite off from tanking.

P.S. My DPS plugin (stopped working after U6) logged my biggest hit as just under 9k(shield smash i believe). Granted, I was off tanking Draigochs feet, and he and I were buffed / debuffed. Me thinks that aint to shabby for a tank class tho'.

Zitat von harman097

All that needs to be known is right here:



Sorry man, but if you haven't attempted content in which it's difficult to hold aggro, you have absolutely no grounds for making statements like




It's the equivalent to pwn'ing a freaver 1v1 and then, based off that occurence, going on to claim that anyone with any understanding of the guardian class will beat any and all reavers easily.

ive tanked all the new content, with good dpsers and still dont have much problems holding aggro, whats this have to do with me thinking that instead of the class getting buffed ppl should get to know their class better? like i said the only ones i havnt tanked where tier 2 challenge wings, and claiming that all the dpsers on a single server must b terrible just becuase i dont find tanking as difficult (as u guys apparently do) is little bit less than foolish...

This just keeps getting better! *grabs a bucket of popcorn and sits back to watch the drama unfold*