Needing 105k renown/infamy worth of solo kills to get 7 audacity for one freep armour set(which is additional skill customisation), and to max out creep audacity is the same, not including the costs needes to get skills/traits/passives, seems a bit ridiculous to me.
But I have been told that I am nothing but a troll and that I am utterly biased (To which side was not named).
Did they change the cost of the sets? I thought it was 35k per one freep set, which would make it 105k for all three.
35000 commendations is approximately 700 solo kills on average. The average renown/infamy made in 700 kills is 150. (Average commendations would be around 50) 150renownx700kills=105,000reno wn
These numbers are the average from some number plucking I did while I was soloing on various alts.
I didn't get the commendations number exactly right for this, but I don't imagine I would be too far off. Someone correct me if I am mistaken.
Commendations are half of your infamy/renown gained per kill. In theory 35k commendations would mean 70k infamy/renown. Might put a couple of k more for when you gain 0 commendations but gain 1 infamy/renown, happens often ^^
If you average 150 infamy/renown a kill, then you will average 75 commendations a kill. On a side note, I can't see how you can average 150 a solo kill, the average rating I normally see is like 1200 :P but then again, suppose average depends on the test population
Commendations are half of your infamy/renown gained per kill. In theory 35k commendations would mean 70k infamy/renown. Might put a couple of k more for when you gain 0 commendations but gain 1 infamy/renown, happens often ^^
If you average 150 infamy/renown a kill, then you will average 75 commendations a kill. On a side note, I can't see how you can average 150 a solo kill, the average rating I normally see is like 1200 :P but then again, suppose average depends on the test population
I was averaging 150 a kill awhile back, but did not realise it was directly half of that.
70k for full audacity on one toon is quite high imo. Especially for creeps, who need to buy all of their skills traits and passives with the same currency.
I'm just scared as to what the implications are to new players vs people with max audacity, and how this will effect creep development. I don't think the latter was thought through.
I was averaging 150 a kill awhile back, but did not realise it was directly half of that.
70k for full audacity on one toon is quite high imo. Especially for creeps, who need to buy all of their skills traits and passives with the same currency.
I'm just scared as to what the implications are to new players vs people with max audacity, and how this will effect creep development. I don't think the latter was thought through.
The only problem I have with the costs are that the low rank skills/corruptions are too expensive (rank 0-2 stuff should be like 50-100 commendations, creeps should be able to get their rank 2 morale corruptions PRONTO).
Otherwise, it's fine.
People wanted to tie advancement to pvp, mission accomplished.
"Spiders CC is unbearable... it's just as bad as loremasters" ~ Brodster
The only problem I have with the costs are that the low rank skills/corruptions are too expensive (rank 0-2 stuff should be like 50-100 commendations, creeps should be able to get their rank 2 morale corruptions PRONTO).
Otherwise, it's fine.
People wanted to tie advancement to pvp, mission accomplished.
Well, that's my big issue with it, the lower rank advancement and how fast people are going to be able to obtain their audacity, as well as creeps being able to get that AND all of their skills and traits.
Yes your efforts will be reset at the next season.
Seasons
Besides the various pacing changes Audacity brings to PvMP, it is an opportunity to create a seasonal rotation. Veteran players will be able to rank their Audacity higher and higher, while the potency of low rank Audacity will keep new players viable.
At some point in the future, likely the next expansion, we will increase the max Audacity rank. The bonuses that Audacity grants will then be re-distributed so that the new max rank provides the same defense bonuses the old max rank did. New PvMP gear with +2 Audacity will be made available for Freeps, and Creeps will be able to purchase past rank 7. Lastly, we will balance the defense values at the now lower ranks to provide enough potency to stay viable. This should make entering the Ettenmoors for new players easier, while providing ample advancement opportunities to veteran players!
This will go over big I have no doubt, although I see very few people here talking about it.
I was averaging 150 a kill awhile back, but did not realise it was directly half of that.
70k for full audacity on one toon is quite high imo. Especially for creeps, who need to buy all of their skills traits and passives with the same currency.
I'm just scared as to what the implications are to new players vs people with max audacity, and how this will effect creep development. I don't think the latter was thought through.
Theoretically this makes it easier than days of old to get full PvP armour....70k renown is only rank 6....the old armour was rank 8 :P
This is freepside only of course, i think that commendation cost on creepside is a bit high for lower ranks, but as someone who doesn't need to purchase anything aside from commendations for the next few years on my creep, i'm not really upset
Yes your efforts will be reset at the next season.
This will go over big I have no doubt, although I see very few people here talking about it.
I'll be honest, I'm not sure what your quotes actually said. This may be due to the fact that all I saw was the obscene pictures of human excrement.
Originally Posted by Ryuc
Theoretically this makes it easier than days of old to get full PvP armour....70k renown is only rank 6....the old armour was rank 8 :P
This is freepside only of course, i think that commendation cost on creepside is a bit high for lower ranks, but as someone who doesn't need to purchase anything aside from commendations for the next few years on my creep, i'm not really upset
Blegh, this is just coming from someone who has restarted a lot of creeps before, and a few just recently. Considering I have barely as much playtime as I once did, the audacity grind (and seasonal re-grind) is just going to destroy my characters effeciveness, and will likely ruin my PvMP experience. :/
The only problem I have with the costs are that the low rank skills/corruptions are too expensive (rank 0-2 stuff should be like 50-100 commendations, creeps should be able to get their rank 2 morale corruptions PRONTO).
i think that 50-100 is too low and that they should be at 400-500 commendations or so for r0-r2 but i think 7500 commendations for each appearance rank 1-15 is idiotic and nobody will buy them until rank 9+ now.
I think appearance traits for first 6-8 ranks should be 500-750 max thats 250-500 below the corruption traits like mastery boost and mitigation and they still get there point across.
I'll be honest, I'm not sure what your quotes actually said. This may be due to the fact that all I saw was the obscene pictures of human excrement.
Not shocked most people who espouse opinions about features are ignorant of what they say, it often leads to their opinions be analogous to an "obscene picture of human excrement". Bravo, not many have the humility to portray themselves as such on a message board.
I'm just scared as to what the implications are to new players vs people with max audacity, and how this will effect creep development. I don't think the latter was thought through.
Exactly that. The costs are too high for new chars (disclaimer: I'm mid-rank), and this will have an effect of them dwindling. If they have a high alt to fund them, they'll be fine -- so the same old players will make the only new characters. So much for turbine wanting to "stop exploitation" with this new system. The new players that do stay will always be at a decided disadvantage against already overpowered freeps now having rank audacity. No chance to compete.
Costs for low rank traits should be scaled accordingly. If a char has 15k infamy, they are rank 5. They will likely have somewhere around 8k commendations. This is not enough to buy even rank 1's skills and traits etc. So... who at Turbine can't do basic math? If instead the costs were scaled, it has a chance of working, for example, rank 1 skills 150 instead of 1500 etc.
A day ago on my server some players were debating this in OOC and there were far too many suggestions by some that they generate commendations by using a greenie reaver alt to run around the map collecting the grams deed and report quests, earning 280 comms in 20 mins, then delete and start over. Okay, so players have found a way to get around it. This, on and all-red map. Why? Because all the freeps had their greenie reavers out doing exactly that. Never saw so many new names. Probably more than half the people reading this who don't already know that method will go out and do it now. I'm personally not interested.
Is this good gameplay? Is this what players want to spend their gameplay time on? Is this what you intended, Turbine?
WB and Turbine management should take a closer look at the people they put in charge of such design decisions.
(I'll skip over skin costs as they are absurd beyond words. Apparently Turbine's goal there was to have us all look the same... because that improves PvP somehow I guess.)
People wanted to tie advancement to pvp, mission accomplished.
Mission FAILED!
pvp earns paltry comms, while PVE is still the only way to get the rates people have been quoting.
It seems as if the best way is to flip to freep en mass, turn the map blue, flip to freshly rolled creeps, turn the map back red doing all the deeds along the way. Rinse and repeat.
Needing 105k renown/infamy worth of solo kills to get 7 audacity for one freep armour set(which is additional skill customisation), and to max out creep audacity is the same, not including the costs needes to get skills/traits/passives, seems a bit ridiculous to me.
But I have been told that I am nothing but a troll and that I am utterly biased (To which side was not named).
Thoughts on this anyone?
Meh, that's nothing.
The million+ renown I have EARNED (none of that zerg-farming, self-farming, PvE questing crud) after nearly 5 years in the moors was made useless overnight.
Grind your stupid audacity with everyone else.
Second Marshal Luc Brandenbuck ~Battlemaster~
Stalker's Enemy*Reaver's Enemy*Blackarrow's Enemy*Warleader-Foe*Weaver's Enemy*Defiler-Foe Champion:'The only thing our opponents can do that we care about is die.'-Graalx2
Yes your efforts will be reset at the next season.
This is nothing new, it's a very common feature in MMO pvp systems.
We will keep the audacity we have, but the benefit of each rank will be reduced such that we need more ranks to get back to the top level.
With the season change happening at rohan release (in August), creeps will have a short term but very large advantage. We will have audacity 7, while freeps will have audacity 1 unless they come out in level 75 gear (the level cap will be 85 at this point).
"Spiders CC is unbearable... it's just as bad as loremasters" ~ Brodster
The million+ renown I have EARNED (none of that zerg-farming, self-farming, PvE questing crud) after nearly 5 years in the moors was made useless overnight.
Grind your stupid audacity with everyone else.
Plus deeds, which are actually now rewarding large amounts of commendations.
Basically, this. 70k renown is nothing.
posting on a banned account. GET AT ME JESUS, WHAT NOW?!
Hmmm, i've been up and down the whole audacity rate thing.... and I think if anything, it's a bit too fast (probably because PvE grinding allows you to get it at a high rate).
This should be something, like the past R15 for creeps, where the max rank is relatively rare and it's more of a bell curve... err.. well... more like a lognormal curve where a lot of people have 'middling' audacity and only a few have max and yet where the first couple audacity ranks is reasonable to get so you think you're achieving something.
As of right now, 5 days from release, we already have a creep working on rank 6 audacity..... yes she puts tons of time in to get it... but this rate is rather insane.
Unfortunately because the devs tied skills/traits to commendations, they can't reduce the PvE commendations without greatly hurting low level creeping.
That said.... the PvE'ing actually has some benefit because we're not all at STAB. Freeps and creeps can be found in quite a few places around the map and small groups/solos benefit from this.
Plus deeds, which are actually now rewarding large amounts of commendations.
Basically, this. 70k renown is nothing.
I think a lot of the "reward us for pvping" crowd actually wanted to be rewarded for pvp they did 4 years ago, and not pvp they are doing currently ;p
Hopefully we'll see some price reductions on the lower rank creep buys (rank 1 corruptions shouldn't even be 100 comms. Those are garbage filler traits that are completely outdated when you get the next tier at rank 3).
"Spiders CC is unbearable... it's just as bad as loremasters" ~ Brodster
I think a lot of the "reward us for pvping" crowd actually wanted to be rewarded for pvp they did 4 years ago, and not pvp they are doing currently ;p
Lol true.
So many threads on this topic to quote my other post.....
Originally Posted by chrisCML
My 2 copper....
Comms pros:
-progression
-gets people on the map
-easily obtainable (ie not Raid drop) armor option for freeps in the moors
-shared comms freep/creep for those with toons on both sides
-moors specific armor can be used by devs to tweak balance
-PvE comms moves people and potential action around the map - we're not all standing at stab/ec
Comms Negatives:
-pricing - out of whack for new creeps, and some hefty costs for creeps who need to catch up on new lower rank skills
-PvE:PvP balance - need to be careful that PvE isn't so efficient that people PvE and actively avoid PvP
-shared freep/creep - combined with no faction lockout, we seem to be getting lots of flipping now, and many freeps just farming comms on new creeps - over time this may work itself out
-seems to be a bit of a deterrent for rolling Alts and/or keeping them competitive as well as an impediment for casual players participating in the moors.
All in all pricing and/or acquisition rate(source) needs to be reviewed....especially if the intention is that we run into this grind with every update/season.
@Aklouie and appropriate rate of comms gain...... you have the renown/infamy data - how long does it take the "average" player to earn 75-85k infamy as a rough guide to get audacity? (yes questing can change the number, but there is also skills/traits/consumables/skins etc as offsets as well).
I think a lot of the "reward us for pvping" crowd actually wanted to be rewarded for pvp they did 4 years ago, and not pvp they are doing currently ;p
Hopefully we'll see some price reductions on the lower rank creep buys (rank 1 corruptions shouldn't even be 100 comms. Those are garbage filler traits that are completely outdated when you get the next tier at rank 3).
It's more the principle of the matter, I'd prefer they removed commendation rewards from deeds altogether.
posting on a banned account. GET AT ME JESUS, WHAT NOW?!
Over the course of a month, the 50% point of creeps only made on average about 20-30 infamy a day... so lots of alts maybe.
If we break into probably the main PvMP creep population at the top 25%, they averaged about 126 infamy/day over a month. So.... 80k/126= 634 days
The 50% freep averaged ~73 renown/day and the top 25% was 321 renown/day. So 80k/321 = 249 days.
Again this is Oct 27-Nov 27 2011 data.
I will re-analyze tonight if I get the time!
btw top 5% creeps made 923/day avg and top 5% freeps made 1689 /day for reference.... again, older analysis but this was over the ENTIRE PvMP population over the course of a month... and you asked for the 'average' player.. I would place the 'serious PvMPer' in the top 25% category.
Back when new creeps needed hundreds of thousands of DP to buy their skills/skins/traits, these deeds rewarded huge chunks of DP.
Now creeps need commendations, they reward commendations.
That's consistency.
Not really, it was between 55-60k DP to fully sig and get a few extra skills, now it's much more than that in commendations which means twice as much infamy. And once you were finished buying DP was basically useless, and to freeps it was entirely useless outside minor buffs.
Titles now reward commendations, when they used to not reward a thing. I'd sooner they not reward anything at all, like they used to be.
posting on a banned account. GET AT ME JESUS, WHAT NOW?!
It's more the principle of the matter, I'd prefer they removed commendation rewards from deeds altogether.
As Wargs would rather they removed auto-crits and OP shield bubbles from Champions.
Some things we just have to deal with my friend.
My name is Purebloodnakh, Chieftain of Saruman's Armies of the North, General of the Warg Legions, loyal servant to the true Lord, Sauron. And I will have my vengeance, in this life or the next.
I think a lot of the "reward us for pvping" crowd actually wanted to be rewarded for pvp they did 4 years ago, and not pvp they are doing currently ;p
How about not screwing us over because we've been customers for the past 4 years?
Our DP pools were rendered useless to buy all these skills and traits we already qualify for. We can't get commies for those map deeds and slayer deeds we've done.
They should have had a higher cap and given a means to convert DP to coms or just outright award the skills and traits we qualify for by virtue of rank. Going forward I think coms should be 2x the infamy award, not 1/2, if we are supposed to use coms to not only by abilities but also consumables.
It's only "too damn high" if you play in a barely active server.
Solution? TRANSFER to Brandywine or Elendilimir.
Hitchens(r9 warg), Glasgow(R9 LM), Branywine server.
"fleeing in the face of certain death is not cowardice. Cowardice is running from a fair fight" - wise words from Champion Jastirria!
It's only "too damn high" if you play in a barely active server.
Solution? TRANSFER to Brandywine or Elendilimir.
Just a note: the people who have gotten rank 7 already on brandy/ele have done so in large part to PVE which can be done (and is often safer/easier) on a smaller/less active server.
Getting upset over the fact that comms weren't awarded retroactively for deed completion is silly. The entire PURPOSE of the commendation system was to "reset" and wipe the slate clean in order to actually achieve a unified and functional pvp currency. Giving people many thousands of comms up front would have flied in the face of this purpose. We all started at essentially 0. It's the price of having an actual functioning system that rewards current effort.
"Spiders CC is unbearable... it's just as bad as loremasters" ~ Brodster
Just a note: the people who have gotten rank 7 already on brandy/ele have done so in large part to PVE which can be done (and is often safer/easier) on a smaller/less active server.
Getting upset over the fact that comms weren't awarded retroactively for deed completion is silly. The entire PURPOSE of the commendation system was to "reset" and wipe the slate clean in order to actually achieve a unified and functional pvp currency. Giving people many thousands of comms up front would have flied in the face of this purpose. We all started at essentially 0. It's the price of having an actual functioning system that rewards current effort.
That's only half the problem, though I'm irate it's more the fact that future players wreak very large rewards via commendations from these titles/deeds and players who've completed them receive nothing.
KB deeds are in majority held by DPS classes, it rewards commendations for people ninja-ing KB's. There's already little to no reward/recognition for healing as is.
posting on a banned account. GET AT ME JESUS, WHAT NOW?!
Got Aud 7 already by grinding. Not that big of a deal.
Your sig says you're rank 12. It is a very big deal if you're not high rank, and do anything besides grind lotro. That's not supposed to sound snarky, but I realize it does a bit. Just saying that we shouldn't have to do so much just to operate in a system Turbine screwed up.
Imho, the amount (about 70k renown) is balanced. Casual players anyway have lousy gear, virtues, etc., so there is no reason why they should have audacity at 7. Vets can earn that much within a few days. An average player will have to pvp for a few weeks before acquiring the full set.
Just a note: the people who have gotten rank 7 already on brandy/ele have done so in large part to PVE which can be done (and is often safer/easier) on a smaller/less active server.
Getting upset over the fact that comms weren't awarded retroactively for deed completion is silly. The entire PURPOSE of the commendation system was to "reset" and wipe the slate clean in order to actually achieve a unified and functional pvp currency. Giving people many thousands of comms up front would have flied in the face of this purpose. We all started at essentially 0. It's the price of having an actual functioning system that rewards current effort.
We all start at 0 ... But the players with their Deeds already completed will *run* slower
I explained it so many times now..
New Player does Deeds in Moors gets 500 Commendations for killing 4 First Marshalls/Chieftains in each Keep... Making it a headstart of what ? 2500-3k commendations... Creepside He could then do 9 more Quests in each Keep and gets another 2500 to 3k commendations..
+ the ones for the actual Quest
Vet Player that had those basic Deeds done gets 0 for Killing 4 First Marshalls/Chieftains in each Keep... Creepside he then could do 9 more Quests in each Keep and gets 0 cause he had the Map already !..
All he gets is the commendations for the actual Quests..
Does not sound like a resett to me,if one side has obviously advantages in farming commendations over the other..
Resett,and we all start at 0 would mean those deeds either give nothing for us all,or we got the chance to do them again..
The higher you go wth those tiers of slayer deeds etc the more Commendations you get,so dont start saying 6k is nothing... At some point it will be 10k .. or for some out there that got high tier slayer deeds done its like 5k each.. wich in an upcoming season they will be behind right away...
While it doesnt bother me that much anymore,i still feel Turbine made the wrong choice with it.
Here's two things that pretty much sum up my opinion on this (this being the apparant 'advantage' that new players have in gaining commendations through deeds):
A. Deeds should have never been a factor in the commendation process, let alone such a significant one. Quests either, tbh. Just tagging and healing.
B. That being said, complaining about greenies having any kind of advantage in progression is pretty ludicrous.
On creepside this advantage is non-existant for exactly the reason this thread was created. For freeps, there are far less available deeds to gain commendations with anyway.
pvp earns paltry comms, while PVE is still the only way to get the rates people have been quoting.
It seems as if the best way is to flip to freep en mass, turn the map blue, flip to freshly rolled creeps, turn the map back red doing all the deeds along the way. Rinse and repeat.
There's less PVP going on now than ever.
Erm? PVP earns more commendations than PVE'ing does...
a Keep quest gives what? 100 comms? Where as solo'ing a player gives between 50-75 usually, occasionally 75-100.. And it's damn easier to solo a player than it is to solo a keep...
The only issue with this system is that they haven't retroactively rewarded deeds, which puts people like me who's deeds are at numbers such as 500/2,500 in a bad position as to get the comm's required I literally have to farm it all rather than relying on deeds to boost me.
It's really not that much. If you spend a week in the Moors, you will get r7 Audacity. I got r7 Audacity right after quest resets Sat morning. And that was on a low-pop server, most of that came from quests.
Grand Member Online status:
Reputation:
Grand Member Online status:
Reputation:
Originally Posted by TinDragon
Member Online status:
Grand Member Online status:
Grand Member Online status:
Junior Member Online status:
Grand Member Online status:
Senior Member Online status:
Senior Member Online status:
Grand Member Online status:
Poster of Note Online status:
Senior Member Online status:
Grand Member Online status:
Senior Member Online status:
Grand Member Online status:
Poster of Note Online status:
Member Online status:
Senior Member Online status:
Reply With Quote
Posting Permissions
