Thread: Attn Devs! SHADOW STANCE IS SEVERELY BUGGED.

Originally Posted by zaskoda

......you can only block or evade ranged attacks, not parry them. Having 3-4 skills that are unavoidable sounds ridiculous.

Yes, I'm aware of this. My point is that melee classes get screwed with +b/p/e cd's while tactical classes can just continue to faceroll, and even ranged isn't quite so bad. I don't think its out of the realm of possibility that this is WAI.


Having said that, ya claws is a little ridiculous. 1 sec cd is not only OP, but it makes a shadow warg's skill rotation stupidly boring. Claws, Rend, Claws, Rend, Claws, Rend, Claws, Rend. Keep up maul. Keep them slowed. Scratch and Snip/Eye Rake if you feel like it, maybe a debuff or two. Swipe is basically worthless now.

Yes SHADOW stance it's bugged and I've tested it. When I'm in SHADOW stance freeps can still target and attack me. I mean what's the point of a "SHADOW" stance when I can be attacked?? /cry

Originally Posted by harman097

Yes, I'm aware of this. My point is that melee classes get screwed with +b/p/e cd's while tactical classes can just continue to faceroll, and even ranged isn't quite so bad. I don't think its out of the realm of possibility that this is WAI.


Having said that, ya claws is a little ridiculous. 1 sec cd is not only OP, but it makes a shadow warg's skill rotation stupidly boring. Claws, Rend, Claws, Rend, Claws, Rend, Claws, Rend. Keep up maul. Keep them slowed. Scratch and Snip/Eye Rake if you feel like it, maybe a debuff or two. Swipe is basically worthless now.

I agree, after having messed around with it just now. Although I don't think it's far from what a mini or rk can put out, just because they are unbalanced doesn't mean wargs should be too.

Now like some others on this forum I am not saying it is or isn't bugged. But if it was WAI then shouldn't feint attack for a burg allow the same buff for all of my out of stealth skills. I can't recall all the times I have had my surprise strike with aim and LiE on it be B/P/Eed. And like someone else before me said, this stance now gives no defensive buffs which means no more 1k bubble and 2.5k armor. So for all we know it was a trade off!

Originally Posted by Celdlithe

Now like some others on this forum I am not saying it is or isn't bugged. But if it was WAI then shouldn't feint attack for a burg allow the same buff for all of my out of stealth skills. I can't recall all the times I have had my surprise strike with aim and LiE on it be B/P/Eed. And like someone else before me said, this stance now gives no defensive buffs which means no more 1k bubble and 2.5k armor. So for all we know it was a trade off!

Um what? Burglars are already stupidly powerful.

Originally Posted by ifreborn1

please dog.


I know you want an i win button vs burgs but come on.

I'd gladly give it up for for anything even approaching the damage potential of of Surprise Strike. Calling it an I Win Button is a joke at best, dishonest as worse. My max damage with Bestial Claws in Shadow stance is around 2k with positional on a devastating hit. (against a training dummy)

Fix the Improved Counter Defense bug, then talk to me about nerfing a class that already had about the worst DPS in the moors.

So... instead of using touch and go, burglars just use knives out instead, BAM fixed the problem.

Wardens can likely STILL outheal shadow-stance damage even with very low BPE values.

Probably a bigger problem for guardians, but since when do guardians need to burn pledge to beat a warg?

Originally Posted by Sezneg

So... instead of using touch and go, burglars just use knives out instead, BAM fixed the problem.

Wardens can likely STILL outheal shadow-stance damage even with very low BPE values.

Probably a bigger problem for guardians, but since when do guardians need to burn pledge to beat a warg?

If this is as intended and a warg is supose to be able to kill me in 6 hits I guess i am done with playing a burg in the moors and so are a lot of other burgs considering the number of wargs out there.


GL ranking with nothing to kill


Dev speek is black speach they mean the exact oposit of what they say. Slower combat LOL.

Originally Posted by ifreborn1

If this is as intended and a warg is supose to be able to kill me in 6 hits I guess i am done with playing a burg in the moors and so are a lot of other burgs considering the number of wargs out there.


GL ranking with nothing to kill


Dev speek is black speach they mean the exact oposit of what they say. Slower combat LOL.

Buh bye. Sorry your burglar isn't quite as invincible as it was before. Too bad burglars don't have other defensive skills: like fall immunity, hips, or a skill that reduces incoming melee damage to 20% and reflect 30% of incoming damage back to the attacker. If burglars had those skills, maybe you could stick around. Oh well, maybe you can roll a minstrel instead. It is probably right up your alley.

Originally Posted by ifreborn1

If this is as intended and a warg is supose to be able to kill me in 6 hits I guess i am done with playing a burg in the moors and so are a lot of other burgs considering the number of wargs out there.


GL ranking with nothing to kill


Dev speek is black speach they mean the exact oposit of what they say. Slower combat LOL.

How about stopping the QQ and start playing to earn commendations, in order to get some audacity to counter this? Judging from the tooltip of the skill it seems to be WAI. I understand that the OP made it clear that his intention was clearly informative, but freeps really never miss the chance to bash on creeps. We all witnessed the conclusion of the story with Defilers' Blight and BAs' Revenge Shot. Please, adapt.

Originally Posted by TheBor

How about stopping the QQ and start playing to earn commendations, in order to get some audacity to counter this? Judging from the tooltip of the skill it seems to be WAI. I understand that the OP made it clear that his intention was clearly informative, but freeps really never miss the chance to bash on creeps. We all witnessed the conclusion of the story with Defilers' Blight and BAs' Revenge Shot. Please, adapt.

No


don't need or want this. with being out numbered 2 to 1 or more and now this bah who cares any more. I have seen my skills desimated most skilled wargs could kill burgs with out a problem 1 v 1 now it will just be a face roll for them.

Enjoy your face roll on somthing else not me.


Fail creeps you have your day make the most of it.

What?A creep class is some kind of OP?2 days and wasnt fixed yet?
Im expecting a hotfix these days.But when the burglar exploit tricks was discovered it was fixed 3 months later or more

Originally Posted by ifreborn1

If this is as intended and a warg is supose to be able to kill me in 6 hits I guess i am done with playing a burg in the moors and so are a lot of other burgs considering the number of wargs out there.


GL ranking with nothing to kill


Dev speek is black speach they mean the exact oposit of what they say. Slower combat LOL.

One less stealth class that can't take a death in pvp won't be missed, HTH

lol this thread rules!!

Ifreborn is trolling you all very well

I am very pleased with your recent activity my apprentice

Originally Posted by zaskoda

Having 3-4 skills that are unavoidable sounds ridiculous.

Ridiculous?

You mean like a Champion's 100% guaranteed crit on Remorseless Strikes, and on a 2 min CD?

Minis (aka Battle Mage) War-Speech "penalty" = heals are self only?

100% Guaranteed devastates for Burgs?

That kind of ridiculous?

Need more examples?

Element of surprise (+20% from stealth crit chance trait) also applies to claws and maul out of stealth when in shadow stance. Not sure if this is a bug or WAI but seems over the top. Whether it's a bug or not this trait should work from stealth only IMO. These are the only dps skills wargs really have, so this trait is pretty much +20% crit chance every time when in shadow stance.

Originally Posted by ifreborn1

If this is as intended and a warg is supose to be able to kill me in 6 hits

Ah , a small taste of the creep drama .

I bet you never thought : " is WAI that the creep did not survived after 1 stun ? " .

Originally Posted by zaskoda

......you can only block or evade ranged attacks, not parry them. Having 3-4 skills that are unavoidable sounds ridiculous.

The attacks can still miss, so the miss chance debuff from Dust still applies.

I don't know. I'm not a burglar expert, but how hard are these warg attacks hitting on a per hit basis through tactical mits/audacity?

I mean, knives out has been better than TnG vs melee for some time now. But if this is "6 hit kills", that would be dumb.

For all intents and purposes tactical classes have completely unavoidable hits (their finesse + -target resist from traits/LIs tend to reduce resist chance down to well bellow the base miss chance all melee attacks have). Spiders definitely feel this way with the new venom system + finesse. Once I'm rolling at 5 pips, I don't see resists.

The general consensus from BR was that shadow stance was worthless. This revelation certainly would make me rethink that.

Originally Posted by babaju2

Element of surprise (+20% from stealth crit chance trait) also applies to claws and maul out of stealth when in shadow stance. Not sure if this is a bug or WAI but seems over the top. Whether it's a bug or not this trait should work from stealth only IMO. These are the only dps skills wargs really have, so this trait is pretty much +20% crit chance every time when in shadow stance.

^^ so wargs get +20% crit chance, which are completelemy un avoidable?........ and you guys say this isnt rediculous? right..... fix the moors devs... in the right way... not some quick umbrella BS like audacity which leaves healing classes buffed out the ...... heh hem.



thanks for giving reavers resilience but it wasnt enough how about giving reavers some decent surviability? like a -50% to all damage? or a damage type? 5minute CD 15 sec duration?
thanks for giving wargs some utility and dps in both stances, (bit over the top) understatement. my rank 4 warg its destroying burglars and guardians. think thats right? as with the reaver how about giving warg some kind of damage reduction buff 15-20sec duration 5m cd or something.
thanks for giving spiders some much needed love, i honestly dont believe it was enough as i can still kill them before they have any hope of doing anything productive.
thanks for giving warleaders those buffs a while back, but they need ATLEAST 1 additional shout skill. .... emphasis on the ATLEAST<<<<<
thanks for giving BA's some much needed love, as far as i can tell no ones complaining, cept about steadfast barrage, but ill reserve my QQ for that, :P
thanks for the love you gave to defilers.............. wait..... what?

lemme guesss, buff 1-2 classes at a time, to get people to roll those toons and spend moneyy in the store, then buff a different 2 classes and get them to do the same thing over again? ......

I am not your enemy 'angry-creeps' i am your friend, also, be more constructive with your raging. thanks.

ps: im also in agreement that the +5% dev chance pvmp set for burgs is over the top, ... like..... WAY over the top.... maybe it was to help balance the affect (or lack there of) of audacity on healing classes, or maybe the whole idea was poorly implemented all together, ./shrug

Originally Posted by zaskoda

One less stealth class that can't take a death in pvp won't be missed, HTH

well lets just make it fair lets take your bubles and heals away

lets make last stand not work vs BA's

lets take minis self heals away in war speach

Good times

Originally Posted by ifreborn1

well lets just make it fair lets take your bubles away

lets make last stand not work vs BA's

lets take minis self heals away in war speach

Good times

Lets make moving target not work against RKs/Minnies... oh wait

Lets take WL and Defiler Healing away in their 4-6k crit damage builds... oh wait.

I mean wargs shouldn't have 4 high crit chance unavoidable skills in my opinion. However, freeps have had skills that are far worse in PvMP for an extremely long time.

Originally Posted by Doom4435

my rank 4 warg its destroying burglars and guardians. think thats right?

Must be some pretty bad burgs and guardians, or you're exaggerating. Burgs have the burst DPS and defensive skills available to drop a Warg solo, Guardians and Burgs who aren't used to just rolling over Wargs or sprinting away can beat us handily. Perhaps you need time to adjust your tactics and get your Audacity up.

Originally Posted by klorphaxius

Must be some pretty bad burgs and guardians, or you're exaggerating. Burgs have the burst DPS and defensive skills available to drop a Warg solo, Guardians and Burgs who aren't used to just rolling over Wargs or sprinting away can beat us handily. Perhaps you need time to adjust your tactics and get your Audacity up.

what does audacity have to do with it. we are most likely at the same now


thats a bs argument.

Originally Posted by PurebloodWorg

Ridiculous?

You mean like a Champion's 100% guaranteed crit on Remorseless Strikes, and on a 2 min CD?

Minis (aka Battle Mage) War-Speech "penalty" = heals are self only?

100% Guaranteed devastates for Burgs?

That kind of ridiculous?

Need more examples?

Why? Did I somewhere state that any of the above were balanced? Did the lobotomy not take?

There is a long list of stupidly powerful skills and abilities Turbine has implemented before. For example, it's not uncommon to see a 6k hit coming from a freep, whereas I don't think there's a single creep skill that hits over 3k. On top of guaranteed crits or ridiculously high crit chances on freepside. Not exactly surprising to see Turbine implement this.

Wargs are the new flavor. Accept it. Embrace it. Work on your stalker slayer when you can, in a month you will be killing the wargs you were killing last month for it.

Earlier today my warg pack met with an rk who actually was geared and knew how to play his class. It took 3 wargs beating on him and several restealthes/pounces to get him down. In the meantime he killed a warg in Shadow stance. This was done with 2 wargs in shadow stance and 1 in flayer to keep him from running. Highest warg hit was 1,5K while the rk's highest hit was 8K. (warg health ranges from 9-13K while the average rk has 6-9K health).

If creeps are to stand any chance of killing such we really need all the dps we can get. Also a good burg can take a warg down during a single stun so why is it unfair for a warg to strike through the burg's defenses? We don't have any defenses when in Shadow so it's basically just a dps race. From what I've seen burgs who can play their class can easily win against a warg in a pure dps race so again I don't see the problem.

Hunters might have a harder time in battles where the warg gets the jump on the hunter. But you've got stealth, track, 40m range and high dps. A pure range class shouldn't fare well in a battle that starts at close combat. You can still easily shoot any Shadow stance warg down if you get it at range though, as again shadow stance offers no defenses.

Which freep class is it exactly that can not manage a fight against a warg anymore?
(it's easy to take down low geared or badly played freeps but what about skilled and geared ones?)

Also please remember that freeps will get better gear. Warg stances won't be changing. They might seem a lot more powerful now before ppl gear up than after ppl are fully geared.

cant test wargs at moment, so tell me, if you in shadow stance do you have 100% stun on your pounce(since this skill works like you in stealth, correct me if im wrong)

Originally Posted by ifreborn1

what does audacity have to do with it. we are most likely at the same now


thats a bs argument.

seems like someone died in a pvp zone...hate that sentence >.< anyways, if I understand it correctly, you're a burg. a burg who complains..

Shadow stance is rly worst, first impresion of me was WOW ! +15% dmg and some att.speed boosts, dots omg ! Killer machine. But on live I see truth...
Flayer > Shadow ..

Yesterday I jump on mini, when I took mini to 50% for his life, then join random champ. I kill mini and then champ and leave battle with 3000 morale to good. After that fight I feel.. feel.. I ... I.. OMG GODDAMN ! Gimme gimme gimme gimme..

Originally Posted by zaskoda

Why? Did I somewhere state that any of the above were balanced?

Someone who godmodes on a ridiculous class pointing out the ridiculous?

Good point, I suppose you are qualified

An ezmoder can smell ezmode a mile away

Originally Posted by babaju2

Element of surprise (+20% from stealth crit chance trait) also applies to claws and maul out of stealth when in shadow stance. Not sure if this is a bug or WAI but seems over the top. Whether it's a bug or not this trait should work from stealth only IMO. These are the only dps skills wargs really have, so this trait is pretty much +20% crit chance every time when in shadow stance.

May the gods forbid Wargs have a +20% crit chance on attacks

Compared to Freeps Dev/Crit chances...that 20% just plain O V E R P O W E R E D

http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.p...diculous-Crits

Freeps whining about creep crits. That's nifty considering every freep class can crit with huge numbers quite often. I guess the purpose of the moors was just so they could win all the time and get their new armor and move on just like any other instance/raid in the game. Oh wait....


As for the Pounce question:

Originally Posted by NotATrollface

cant test wargs at moment, so tell me, if you in shadow stance do you have 100% stun on your pounce(since this skill works like you in stealth, correct me if im wrong)

No, Pounce is not on the list of skills that act as from stealth. From stealth it will apply a 5s stun, while in Shadow but not in stealth it interrupts inductions only.

Even if it is WAI, after this much freep QQ, it'll surely be nerfed. Remember what happened to blight and revenge. Devs can't resist freep QQ.

I think Shadow Stance is WAI. Creeps have very limited tools (Vital Target, WL shouts, spider dots, extremely weak defiler dps, also stunning/dazing a burg or guard is usually a bad idea.) to deal with avoidance buffs (Touch and go, pledge), however freeps can easily kill a BA with moving target (Strong tactical dps by minis, RKs and LMs, unavoidable physical skills such as heart seeker(hunter), feral strikes(champ), mighty blow (warden), unerring strike(warden), and some tactical skills of physical classes battle-shout(captain), routing cry(captain), and a lot of stun/daze skills that will help bypass evade buff). So shadow stance's from stealth effect seems WAI to me.

Just have to laugh at the OP, burgs had been godmode for a long time now and since RoI wargs have been the whipping boys. Sorry you cant kill wargs anymore by mashing the keyboard with your face.

The age of man is over.... the time of the creep has come.

Originally Posted by Dawnsinger

Earlier today my warg pack met with an rk who actually was geared and knew how to play his class. It took 3 wargs beating on him and several restealthes/pounces to get him down. In the meantime he killed a warg in Shadow stance. This was done with 2 wargs in shadow stance and 1 in flayer to keep him from running. Highest warg hit was 1,5K while the rk's highest hit was 8K. (warg health ranges from 9-13K while the average rk has 6-9K health).

If creeps are to stand any chance of killing such we really need all the dps we can get. Also a good burg can take a warg down during a single stun so why is it unfair for a warg to strike through the burg's defenses? We don't have any defenses when in Shadow so it's basically just a dps race. From what I've seen burgs who can play their class can easily win against a warg in a pure dps race so again I don't see the problem.

Hunters might have a harder time in battles where the warg gets the jump on the hunter. But you've got stealth, track, 40m range and high dps. A pure range class shouldn't fare well in a battle that starts at close combat. You can still easily shoot any Shadow stance warg down if you get it at range though, as again shadow stance offers no defenses.

Which freep class is it exactly that can not manage a fight against a warg anymore?
(it's easy to take down low geared or badly played freeps but what about skilled and geared ones?)

Also please remember that freeps will get better gear. Warg stances won't be changing. They might seem a lot more powerful now before ppl gear up than after ppl are fully geared.

Earlier today my warg pack met with an rk who actually bought and used store brands this made his almost viable.




if he did not bran you wargs should / deleet

You made me register on the forums just because of this post... to give notice that my rk7 warg, in Shadow Stance, today scored a devastating hit with swipe on a burg for a massive ... (drumroll plz) ... 140 damage!...

It was on BW and I couldn't resist posting it on creep OOC, when it happened, so you can check it out with any creep who was online around 22.30 GMT. Its a pity i did not save the log...

Originally Posted by Altler

You made me register on the forums just because of this post... to give notice that my rk7 warg, in Shadow Stance, today scored a devastating hit with swipe on a burg for a massive ... (drumroll plz) ... 140 damage!...

It was on BW and I couldn't resist posting it on creep OOC, when it happened, so you can check it out with any creep who was online around 22.30 GMT. Its a pity i did not save the log...

Knives Out

I can tell you my experience. I could deal a lot of dmg but I would be killed in 3 seconds when using shadow stance. However, I can survive for 1 min but little dmg when using flayer stance. Understand??? It's like a gamble. Do you want dmg or alive??????
Although you cant avoid these skills, but you still can kill a warg because it wont stun you but you can!!!

I understand , burglars are the champions of 1vs n before U6, but now eveything has changed, and you cant survive under the changes. Just delete your character!