Thread: Petition to the devs, in memory of the loss of a beloved player!!!!!

Originally Posted by Lobber

If I was the lead dev, i'd say no to that petition. Not because of being callous or hard hearted, but because if one player gets to name, or have named after him, a physical location in game, then all players not given that option would be or could be felt to be left out. After all, don't we also have Silkdawn Valley? Fraggle Rock? Two fingers? Bicyclerepairman Cross Roads?

No, it is enough that all the creeps and freeps know that Nidor's Rock is unofficially named Nidor's Rock. Lets leave it at that.

/devilsadvocate

they already made a president years ago with another player from brandywine...thnxbai

Originally Posted by Lobber

- To take up the unpopular side of the issue.
- Defend what is right.
- Shamelessly plug my BRMX thread.

While I understand playing the devils advocate, the two other parts of this post bother me. First off defend what is right is nothing more then an opinion, no more or less valid then the others in this post. So in fact you are defending your opinion and nothing more. The last part, plugging your thread is a bit bothersome in a thread about an important member of this community who we lost in real life. It is worrisome because it taints your whole arguement with the bad taste of using this thread to further your own agenda.

That being said, you argued that other areas would need to be named and listed them and I hate to say it but you are in no way shape or form as important as Bruce was to the formation of what the BW was for quiet a while. This is not a slight to you, but just the fact that you (and many others) did not give and set up the precendent of what BW was all about for years. Skully also nailed it on the head.

-Clio

Originally Posted by Lobber

- To take up the unpopular side of the issue.
- Defend what is right.
- Shamelessly plug my BRMX thread.

Lobber, old friend, this is not the thread for joking around and shameless self promotion. Take the childish behavior elsewhere.

Nidor earned all of the respect people are showing. I personally would like to see a new PVP zone with a Tyrant spider named Nidor, but Nidor's Rock would be nice too.


~Toeclippings

Originally Posted by Chizica

I've been sick with the stupid flu/cold for the past week or so so I haven't really had a chance to get back to this thread.

If I continue to get nothing but silence from Turbine by the end of the week, I'm turning it up a notch. granted I don't play as much anymore, but RL is the master I have to heed.

Anyway, if no response by Friday, expect to have contact information posted here.(Turbine, Warner Brothers, CNN gamer reviewers...etc).

I'm not letting this go away quietly. Bruce didn't, nor would he.

It's probably best to keep this as a polite request. Nidor didn't become as beloved as he is by harassing people as a means to whatever ends.

I'm sure he'd rather have just 1 person be the example he was, instead of something as impersonal as having his name on a rock.

/signed

I didn't know him well, but with so many people showing such kind support, he must have been a good person. Despite being a good person or liked by the community, I would bet that turbine doesn't do a darn thing. Which, is sad.

Originally Posted by 1_v01d_0

While I understand playing the devils advocate, the two other parts of this post bother me. First off defend what is right is nothing more then an opinion, no more or less valid then the others in this post. So in fact you are defending your opinion and nothing more. The last part, plugging your thread is a bit bothersome in a thread about an important member of this community who we lost in real life. It is worrisome because it taints your whole arguement with the bad taste of using this thread to further your own agenda.

That being said, you argued that other areas would need to be named and listed them and I hate to say it but you are in no way shape or form as important as Bruce was to the formation of what the BW was for quiet a while. This is not a slight to you, but just the fact that you (and many others) did not give and set up the precendent of what BW was all about for years. Skully also nailed it on the head.

-Clio

I agree with the first statement. I am defending the right to express my opinion. I have a right to express it, just as you have a right to disagree with it. And just because you disagree with it, does not necessarily make you right either.

The second statement is your problem with me plugging my own agenda in the thread. Apparently you missed the icon after the plug. The represents a smile, and a smile is usually expressed after something happy, or amusing is expressed. In this case, amusement. I personally believe that Bruce would approve of some light hearted amusement in this instance. Is it not true that he was a jokester in real life, and didn't want people talking about his problems or feeling sorry for him? Therefore, I am justified to bring some light heartedness into the discussion. And the other point I was trying to make is that I have as much right to have the EC crossroads renamed Bicyclerepairman Crossroads as he has Nidor Rock named after him.

So the logical argument I am making, and have made, is that it is ridiculous to expect a commercial company changing their policy just because one particularly popular player died of cancer and left a long lasting impression on the playerbase. Far too absurd in fact, to do so. People who have played this game in the past and who have died have passed along without anyone taking notice of them. Where are their memorials? Where is their recognition? Can you name one?

Originally Posted by Yosoff

Lobber, old friend, this is not the thread for joking around and shameless self promotion. Take the childish behavior elsewhere.
~Toeclippings

My behavior is quite serious. SEE ABOVE.

One more point: This game isn't run as a democracy. A petition to have something done by the developers at the players request is absurd. If you don't like the policy of Turbine, stop playing.

Originally Posted by Lobber

I
So the logical argument I am making, and have made, is that it is ridiculous to expect a commercial company changing their policy just because one particularly popular player died of cancer and left a long lasting impression on the playerbase. Far too absurd in fact, to do so. People who have played this game in the past and who have died have passed along without anyone taking notice of them. Where are their memorials? Where is their recognition? Can you name one?

different players have bigger impacts on the community as a whole. nidor had a massive impact.

Honestly, I would have to agree with Lobber if the circumstances were different. It is true that other players have passed and that it does tend to set a precedent that could prove to be problematic later on. There are a few reasons why I think this case is an exception though. First, Nidor was very well liked by a large swath of Brandywine players. He was a founder, one of the first creeps out there and was very active on the community site in those early days. He played a big part in establishing the fun and friendly community we have here. Second, I've been on Brandywine for over five years now and this is only the second time, that I know of that the idea was even put forth. Other players have passed but sometimes a player is just ingrained enough into the community and their input so great that it deserves special attention. This brings me to my final point. Nidor loved the game and he thought highly enough of his friends here that he made a point to share his story with them on the game's official site no less.

To me, this shows a great deal of devotion to the game and unparalleled respect for his peers on Brandywine. If people were making this request all the time I would also understand the stickiness of the situation. That isn't the case here. With that being said, I think most people would be happy with something decidedly low key. Even if they just had a random NPC spider named Nidor in Grams I think that would be an acceptable compromise. I do think that some kind of memorial is in order though, even if it is a smaller gesture than anything suggested in this thread.

Originally Posted by Jeffor

To me, this shows a great deal of devotion to the game and unparalleled respect for his peers on Brandywine.

Now THIS would be an amazing tribute to Nidor. *BE* a monument, even if it's harder than just starting a thread on a forum.

To me this thread represented a few things besides being a petition to the devs. It's been a gathering place within the game that allowed people from across different servers to sign a petition and perhaps share some fond memories of Bruce and/or Nidor's Rock. I would venture to guess that the end goal is to have a dev read it and respond to it in a way that the majority of us would like to, with a memorial of some sort. My problem with the naysayers and devil's advocates in this thread is what's the point?. If I am asked to sign a petition my way of disagreeing with is to not sign it...I don't sign it "/unsigned". While you may have a reason and perhaps even logic I just have to wonder what's the point of sharing it in this thread.

Maybe all of you should go back and re-read the thread that Nidor started.

Three Words

You seem to be lost in your grief and desire to honor the man and have forgotten how he himself viewed the game.

"However, I don't really want to talk about this in game as my time in game is an escape from reality. I may have a very difficult road ahead of me, and will look to escape into Middle Earth. So please don't think me rude if I don't talk about my cancer ingame. If a tell goes unaswered or you get a terse response back, please don't take offense....I'm not trying to be a ?????. I just want to spend my time in ME thinking about ME things, like ??? did they do to my hatchlings !"
- Nidor

There are many reasons to not have this done but if for no other reason than the above, I have to side with Nidor and say:

/unsigned

The truth of the matter is, I love the idea of Nidor's Rock being official. However, like a previous poster said, it sets a dangerous precedent. And for the first 13 and a half pages or so, everyone has been behind the /signed 99% bandwagon. No doubt the last couple of people to post have been dubious of the idea, but did not want the flames that would come being the first to speak out against the idea as the minority 1% such as myself.

Bruce deserves recognition. This is true, but were you aware that I was also a founding member of the Moors? I had a character in the Moors during the beta, when no freeps had even reached Rivendell. So where are my accolades? I'm sure there are many like me who have been with the game since the beginning, but are not being deified as Nidor is.

Originally Posted by Lobber

were you aware that I was also a founding member of the Moors? I had a character in the Moors during the beta, when no freeps had even reached Rivendell. So where are my accolades? I'm sure there are many like me who have been with the game since the beginning, but are not being deified as Nidor is.

...... WAY too many personal pronouns.

Nidor lost a fight with cancer, and is no longer walking planet Earth.

We are honoring him and remembering him because of that fact.

Not because he was some founding member...

We don't all rally behind one person and request a monument in their honor just because their join date is a low integer.

Nidor will be missed. Nidor is missed. We wish to remember him by creating this PoI.

This isn't a popularity contest, Bicycle. Remember that.

Originally Posted by Meregash

...... WAY too many personal pronouns.

Nidor lost a fight with cancer, and is no longer walking planet Earth.

We are honoring him and remembering him because of that fact.

Not because he was some founding member...

We don't all rally behind one person and request a monument in their honor just because their join date is a low integer.

Nidor will be missed. Nidor is missed. We wish to remember him by creating this PoI.

This isn't a popularity contest, Bicycle. Remember that.

mere put that wonderfully. i agree with what he said 100%.


@BRM
there are many people that are founders, but what does that mean? exactly nothing, zero. nidor was a founder, yes this is true, but he also helped build the BW community. all you have to do is read this, and the other threads about him on the 1st page on the BW PVMP forums alone to realize this. i cant speak for others, but i didnt sign this to just "join the bandwagon". i joined it, because from my interactions with him, i thought him to be a wonderful person. i would guess that many are in the same boat as me, and signed it because of the way he influenced them

Originally Posted by Meregash

...... WAY too many personal pronouns.

Nidor lost a fight with cancer, and is no longer walking planet Earth.

We are honoring him and remembering him because of that fact.

Not because he was some founding member...

We don't all rally behind one person and request a monument in their honor just because their join date is a low integer.

Nidor will be missed. Nidor is missed. We wish to remember him by creating this PoI.

This isn't a popularity contest, Bicycle. Remember that.

!!!!!!

for emphasis

!!!!

You don't show up to a funeral/memorial and complain about the fact that the deceased is getting more attention than you. That's extremely disrespectful, to say the least. Just because one person is recognized more posthumously than the others doesn't mean that the others are just shrugged off. Every life is important, and impacts the community in some way, but some are more impactful than others. It's just the way it is. It's like complaining about the fact that they only erected a statue of George Washington, and not a statue of every other veteran of the war. I don't mean that in an elitist fashion at all. It's just the way I see it.

It occurs to me that people have taken the wrong message from my last reply. It isn't about me at all. The point I am trying to make, and have been trying to make from the beginning, is that this game is ultimately the property of Turbine. Not us players. You don't own anything in this game at all. No rocks, no valleys, and no crossroads. Therefore, they are under no obligation whatsoever to honor the request of the bereaved player base who loved a generous and popular man who happened to die of cancer, and shared his journey with us all on the forums.

My point is not to diminish his contribution. Far be it from that. Never may it be said that I did not offer up my own sincerest condolences to his family and friends for their loss. In fact, it saddened me greatly to learn of it. However, this deification of the man to the point of attempting to petition Turbine to change the way they do business is where I draw the line. If you want to honor his memory, go to his grave and lay some flowers at it. I even doubt that the dev's are even aware of this petition, and even if they are, they have better things to work on, and it probably isn't their decision anyways. Such things would belong to the president, CEO, or board of directors, however the company is organized, I do not know personally.

So, attacking the devil's advocate will get you no where.

Originally Posted by Lobber

Bruce deserves recognition. This is true, but were you aware that I was also a founding member of the Moors? I had a character in the Moors during the beta, when no freeps had even reached Rivendell. So where are my accolades? I'm sure there are many like me who have been with the game since the beginning, but are not being deified as Nidor is.

Well, hey Lobber, if you want to go out and die a sad death at a young age after being a blessing to so many people, that's up to you but I wouldn't encourage it.

But see, you're still here. You're still alive. Nidor isn't. That's a huge difference. And even over on Firefoot I've heard of Nidor and the impact he's had on other players. Not to be cruel, but haven't heard much about you. That's not meant as a slam, just saying that Nidor seemed to have a much larger reaching positive influence, at least thus far, and that taken into account with his early death is why people are wanting the memorial.

I am wondering how many people will realize that making Nidor's rock an officially recognized location in the moors would extend beyond the Brandywine server? If the dev's actually implemented that, it would be Nidor Rock on ALL servers, not just Brandywine. This would bring a great more deal of attention to Nidor, and if there are some people on other servers who have never even heard of this issue, they might be greatly confused. Then there would be repercussions and backlash against Turbine for honoring one of Brandywines fallen heroes, while ignoring countless others who have made similar contributions to their server's moors, but have not been so recognized. And if they were, what then? What if someone else, like Nidor, had that very same rock named after them in another server, also died and was memorialized, or a similar location? See the confusion this would cause? And lets not even mention the fact that it isn't at all in line with lore. No, never even bring up such a possibility. Honor for an enemy of the free people of middle earth? See where I am going with this? That is why the dev's are ignoring it, and that is why this thread is simply a gathering place of mourners trying to comfort each other with a false hope of giving a deserving player such recognition.

A few in the last few pages have made it quiet clear on their feelings, to the extent of what I see of trying to get a rile out of us that believe this petition has merit. There is absolutely no reason to come in here with an /unsigned and various comments as to why. If you don't believe in the petition don't post in the thread. If you want to discuss the merits or pitfalls of this do it in another thread created specifically for that. What I see is attention seeking and drama because everyone who comes in here with this or that reason for not doing the OPs ideas, you know exactly the response it will garner from those of us who think this is a good idea.

On that note since those who wish to drag this thread into drama seem content to keep up I will not be posting replies for the continuation of said drama. I suggest the rest do the same.

To the devs, regardless of whether you think this is or is not a good idea it would be appropriate I think to at least give back to the community, as the players keep you employed on this title. We know you see threads, we have countless locked over the years and even past months. Do the right thing by us here and at least come in with reasons for or against this to show that you even care an iota about us.

/signed Nidor rock

R.I.P Nidor, great player and person.

It sounds to me like void doesn't want any dissenting views expressed. That people with a different opinion are not welcome to express themselves freely.

Originally Posted by Lobber

It sounds to me like void doesn't want any dissenting views expressed. That people with a different opinion are not welcome to express themselves freely.

Im not sure about the rest of the community but she is most certainly speaking on behalf of myself. Please, if you do not agree with the content of the thread it would only be common courtesy to leave out the negative impact that you know it will cause.

We cannot force you to silence your opinion in this thread. We only wish that you do not taint this one, out of respect.

Would be great to get a response out of the devs, even if it is the words we do not want to hear.

You seem to misunderstand. I would also like to see Nidor's rock be called that in game. But, and its a great big but. But, its a delusion. I splashed some cold wet reality on you people. You don't like being wakened out of the dream (which is a good dream, but still a dream) that we can honor Bruce. It is most probable that developers have a policy of silence. And even if they did not, I think this is the wrong forum to post this petition.

Try the Suggestions Forum.

Thanks BRM, I am sure we are all better people now for the input you have provided us. If you feel you have gotten enough attention out of this and are ready to move on, there is really nothing new for you to try to make a point about, I'm sure only a couple in this thread would mind.

You know what the thread is about.

You know most of the people's feelings about it.

You shared your view.

You defended your view.

You have now moved on to "holier-than-thou" belittling.

Seriously man we understand and you can bet most people know your view it to be true, but it isn't your position to try and "save" people from themselves in this context.

Hope you can move on to more entertaining threads and we can get back to more enjoyable banter.

You are most welcome. I am glad I could be of assistance.

This is my first time back in a while so it was nice to read through the tributes again. *waves* .....*looks up into the big blue sky and bows to Master Nidor*

/signed


-sherwood

/Signed Daeviel
Nidor's Rock

/signed

-Flash

/signed

Nidor's Rock

Wow- I am so sorry to hear of the loss of Nidor
Reading this thread really brought back memories of the Moors and Nidor, he really had a big impact on the community.

No matter what if the devs honor him or not, He is honored by the community, and that is what counts.

I'm not from Brandywine, but it's clear you all thought very highly of Nidor. My prayers go out to his family and friends.

/signed

It has been a long time since i have really played lotro. Last night for some reason i wanted to check the forums and see how Brandywine was doing. I have know nidor either as enemy or foe since the begining of lotro. I salute him and wish his family the best in the healing process. A quests would be of great honor to someone that so many also respected.

/signed

I saw this thread a few weeks ago and just wanted to come back and find out if anything had happened?

/signed

I don't log much but, whenever there is an update I hopefully head to the Rock and wait to see "Nidor's Rock" pop up as I ride by!!!

RIP Nidor, an honourable gamer worthy of remembrance.

Almost two months later and not a single dev response, for shame turbine.

Originally Posted by 1_v01d_0

Almost two months later and not a single dev response, for shame turbine.

The players did more to honor Nidor than any dev could possibly do, even by naming a rock. The reality is, the answer is probably "no" and judging by the tone of some of the people in even this thread, I can't imagine they want to hear a bunch of the anger and whining that is so prevalent on the PvMP forums.

Just keep calling it Nidor Rock, and when new players ask why it's called that since it's not labeled on the map, you have a chance to share a nice story.

In September 2010, Vilya lost one of their most loved players, Rekka, in a car accident. We, too, petitioned to have a spot on the moors map named after him, but it got no response. We still call that spot Rekka's Woods though, and when people ask, we explain why.

I understand both the standpoint from players and from Turbine, who at some point told one of the Vilyans that they just can't make a memorial for just one player, when there's a possibility of then needing so many others. To us players, it hurts, but continuing to call it Rekka's Woods still has the effect we want it to have, which is remembering a great player and an amazing friend to a lot of people. So keep on calling it Nidor's Rock, and keep him alive in your hearts and memories.