Why oh why - they screw up Warden and now they decide to screw Mini too reducing the protective power of our bubble - this is mean and stupid. - You want us to pay to use a skirmish soldier instead to supplement - this sucks ! Do you take some perverse joy in screwing players over ?
Seriously. Mini's are op enough. Landscape soldiers have nothing to do with it. Just chill.
Do you have a Minstrel that you play at end-game? If not go meditate some place else please. That +- 800 morale they've removed from the bubble is often the difference between life and death in certain end-game raids.
The nerf bat has swung, we just have to deal with it. Furthermore a WS healing reduction is inbound for Moors play. It was fun while it lasted.
Do you have a Minstrel that you play at end-game? If not go meditate some place else please. That +- 800 morale they've removed from the bubble is often the difference between life and death in certain end-game raids.
I have an up-and-comer. Still, this skill isn't 100% necessary to have, just makes your job easier.
Originally Posted by Cebra
The nerf bat has swung, we just have to deal with it. Furthermore a WS healing reduction is inbound for Moors play. It was fun while it lasted.
Inbound when? Not any time soon. Even with a reduction, they will still be very viable via Audacity.
Yes our bubble is often a matter of life and death for a mini with only light armor etc - why do Turbine feel they need to act like greek gods and mess around with the lives of the little people as they do with these nonsence tweeks. There is no good reason for this cull in our bubble's effectivnses - only perversity as in look how we can interfere.
I'll never ever understand why, after working so hard to revamp a class, they then have to "nerf" it just a few months later. Wouldn't it be better to buff every other class (including creeps (and yes I do also play creep)) so they are all on level ground? Or am I missing something? :\ Maybe i'm being naive.
Well, I loved my minstrel even before RoI, and it'll continue being my main. It's nice being able to survive a bit more but i'm a bit of a suicidal one in pvp anyway ^^
The total 30% from Audacity will be > than a measly 800 morale from the bubble.
Play smarter and adapt. Not everything is meant to be easy.
What Audacity? Some of us don't even play pvp. Acid debuff during saruman fight comes to mind where bubble was very useful. Not everything revolves around pvp.
What Audacity? Some of us don't even play pvp. Acid debuff during saruman fight comes to mind where bubble was very useful. Not everything revolves around pvp.
Thats why they buffed the RK bubble. Welcome to the cruel world of class-stacking.
1. Bubbles were not the reason minis are OP in the moors, its the full healing in Warspeech, coupled with the increase of dps and ablity to sustain power. All of that was way more important then 800 morale on the bubble. Minis are way over the top OP in the moors, but again, all of that can be easily handled IN the moors, there is the ablity to adjust any of that without touching pve side.
2. In certain instances , ven skirm raids if a squall is about to blow, the bubble was the diffrence between life and death. The nerf wasnt needed imo.
Also, wait and play with your rks, Ive been reading about the changes, they really do come along way I think, but reading it and playing with one will be the proof in the pudding.
I still think , nothing can restore anywhere the amount of morale as third age/coda/bolster/rts/sos. Thats 6-8k morale restored in about 3 seconds, even with the current changes to RK, minis are still the master of reactive healing and spike damage handling ablilty. The changes do exite me however, so cant wait to heal on my rk this week to see where they are at.
They could reduce the WS heals to zero and 90% of creeps will still lose in a one on one to a mini.
And, you mark my words people of the forums; If that WS nerf does indeed come, I can't wait to see the minis rolling heal and the forums being flood with another round of QQing and whining; "Mini healing in moors is OP I can't kill anything reduce moors healing by 50%!!!!111 Mini heals is group ezmode!1!"
Otherwise, I sure won't use this bubble anymore unless it's before combat. Not worth the time to insta-cast.
Thats why they buffed the RK bubble. Welcome to the cruel world of class-stacking.
Hopefully Turbine will get to the point where 1 Minstrel and 1 Rune-keeper healing raids together will be stronger than 2 of either. Until that time, tweaks here and there will work.
They could reduce the WS heals to zero and 90% of creeps will still lose in a one on one to a mini.
And, you mark my words people of the forums; If that WS nerf does indeed come, I can't wait to see the minis rolling heal and the forums being flood with another round of QQing and whining; "Mini healing in moors is OP I can't kill anything reduce moors healing by 50%!!!!111 Mini heals is group ezmode!1!"
Otherwise, I sure won't use this bubble anymore unless it's before combat. Not worth the time to insta-cast.
Ah haha, so true!
I have always preferred to run a healing setup in groups/fraids in the moors (ya know be the zerger instead of the solo zergee) mainly for the joy of seeing my group take on bigger creep groups open field without losing a single person. Audacity is going to make healers even more usefull in RvR, and while creeps have some good -healing debuffs, they will still cry a river calling for healing nerfs. God forbid that they should have to adapt
-Findaratos mini ~ Shock and Awe
-Fingolfinfelagund champ ~ Professional Awesome
Increase the bubble when traited 3 deep in blue. This prevents minis from using it to full effect when traited 5 deep in WS (ie balance for solo pvp, while keeping an essential tool for minis as a support class). There are creative ways to balance for both.
My morale bubble! Turbine dangled a shiny new toy in front of us then snatched it away cruelly! How could they??!
Ok, seriously, it's a little annoying, true, but what can you do? I'm not ditching my level 75 minstrel because his shield bubble isn't as good as it used to be. I'll just have to get used to it.
Thank you for admitting that even w/o any heals in WS your class is still complete godmode. =)
*Now back to our regularly scheduled crying from ez mode minis because their bubble took a slight nerf *
Oh this should be precious! Could you explain exactly how a light armour class with no CC abilities and lower dps than any non-tank class is "godmode"?
Um, I rather think that fears (IoE), stuns (PC) and slows (CotW) count as CC, don't you?
Bit busy with new epic content on mah main huntie, but as soon as I've finished it's back to levelling the d0rf to 75 (currently lv66, and mini solo has felt incredibly OP).
Um, I rather think that fears (IoE), stuns (PC) and slows (CotW) count as CC, don't you?
Bit busy with new epic content on mah main huntie, but as soon as I've finished it's back to levelling the d0rf to 75 (currently lv66, and mini solo has felt incredibly OP).
Ok, let's look at those shall we?
Invocation of Elbereth - ok, fair cop ... not something that can be chain-cast by any means but buys a possible 15 secs break from one mob.
Piercing Cry - only stuns on a critical hit and as with IoE has a 30 sec cooldown. As CC goes it's pretty unreliable. Especially when compared with Rune Keeper stuns.
Call of the Wizards - really doesn't deserve the term "slow" (30% given it's range really isn't that great) especially when compared to the 70% slow that Rune Keepers get.
I'm not trying to make out that Minstrels are hard done by, I'm quite happy with where they're at in PvE, and I'm not saying that Rune-Keepers are over-powered. What I am saying is that each class has it's own tools to stay alive, as I understand it Rune-Keepers have received something of a buff in the latest update; which is great. Why there is this constant need to cry "Nerf" in PvE is beyond me.
Oh this should be precious! Could you explain exactly how a light armour class with no CC abilities and lower dps than any non-tank class is "godmode"?
Shoo back to your orc-pit forum you pesky troll.
I think they are talking about the "healing" part of the healer class >.> sounds odd doesn't it
Ssupermann: I hate minis, they have satellite lazers
I for one feel the loss of 800 morale...and I feel it keenly. The bubble was great for questing in PvE, but even before U6 all you needed was two, three hits max before it was gone - and it's the same when you're in the moors. I laughed for about a minute when I read the patchnotes and they had the gall to say the bubble was still pretty damn great after the nerf, then I cried for a bit in my corner.
Face it, all you PvP'ers, minnies don't deal that much damage (especially after the coda nerf), we wear squishy armour, and those two or three heals we can throw while moving aren't that great. This is why we have self-heals and a bubble...and it's not as if creeps didn't have any way to impair us. If you're loosing to a minnie, it might very well be he's just a good player, or you aren't. And this can happen with every class.
And to be frank, if WS healing is indeed going to be nerfed in a future update, I'm going to switch mains.
Face it, all you PvP'ers, minnies don't deal that much damage (especially after the coda nerf), we wear squishy armour, and those two or three heals we can throw while moving aren't that great. This is why we have self-heals and a bubble...and it's not as if creeps didn't have any way to impair us. If you're loosing to a minnie, it might very well be he's just a good player, or you aren't.
Not the first time I see a minstrel use the l2p argument and negating minstrel opness in pvp
Minstrels arent OP in pvp, we dont know to play. Sure
Invocation of Elbereth - ok, fair cop ... not something that can be chain-cast by any means but buys a possible 15 secs break from one mob.
Piercing Cry - only stuns on a critical hit and as with IoE has a 30 sec cooldown. As CC goes it's pretty unreliable. Especially when compared with Rune Keeper stuns.
Call of the Wizards - really doesn't deserve the term "slow" (30% given it's range really isn't that great) especially when compared to the 70% slow that Rune Keepers get.
I'm not trying to make out that Minstrels are hard done by, I'm quite happy with where they're at in PvE, and I'm not saying that Rune-Keepers are over-powered. What I am saying is that each class has it's own tools to stay alive, as I understand it Rune-Keepers have received something of a buff in the latest update; which is great. Why there is this constant need to cry "Nerf" in PvE is beyond me.
Rune-keepers got a strong buff to healing, slight buff to lightning, and a slight nerf to fire.
RK's also only have one stun which is a proc. The stuns you speak of are only dazes which break on damage. Since the topic is about the moors the damage is constant (meaning constantly broken dazes). The 70% slow that you refered to is actually 50% or 70% while traited, but just like daze the slow is broken on damage and reduced from 70% down to 30% just like minis after about 1 second.
I'd say they're about even now.
I have nothing against Minis I personally think they are awesome!
I have always waited for the day where minis and healing RK's would be on par with each other and I think we found that point with Update 6.
Rune-keepers got a strong buff to healing, slight buff to lightning, and a slight nerf to fire.
The fire nerf is odd but then I haven't played my RK for any length of time for a while, last I heard it had only just been buffed. Glad the heals have been improved though.
Originally Posted by msharding
RK's also only have one stun which is a proc. The stuns you speak of are only dazes which break on damage. Since the topic is about the moors the damage is constant (meaning constantly broken dazes). The 70% slow that you refered to is actually 50% or 70% while traited, but just like daze the slow is broken on damage and since we're discussing moors that 70% goes down to 30% just like minis after about 1 second.
Not quite true, RKs have Shocking Words which has a stun chance which, as I recall, procs slightly less than Piercing Cry assuming both are fully traited but is still pretty awesome. Fair point re the dazes but, to be fair, I can't comment about PvMP (and wasn't) as I keep well clear of it, so dazes are very useful to me when I pull more than one mob in PvE ... let the pet rock take the first adds, with Armour of Storm (the proc) for when the rock crumbles, plus Shocking Touch for any adds that get too persistent. As far as the slow is concerned, remember you can trait into it so that it is reduced but not broken by damage. Frankly it's a rare mob that gets into melee range with my RK as long as I get the jump on it, particularly considering the slowing effects of damage on mobs.
Originally Posted by msharding
I'd say their about even now.
I have nothing against Minis I personally think they are awesome! I have always waited for the day where minis and healing RK's would be on par with each other and I think we found that point with Update 6.
I'm very glad that healing looks like it's evened out between the two classes. However I think that it's slightly off-topic which was, I think, about the minstrel bubble-nerf which doesn't have any bearing on group or raid healing choices (we are evening out because of the RK healing buff I think, not because our bubble got weaker) it just affects Minstrel survivability.
Oh this should be precious! Could you explain exactly how a light armour class with no CC abilities and lower dps than any non-tank class is "godmode"?
Shoo back to your orc-pit forum you pesky troll.
lulz.....priceless. You dont even know how to play your own dam class...lol
To be honest, the nerf to the bubble really only affects pvp imo. It was nice to have in pve, yes, but I can get a RtS off faster than that bubble (when traited blue line) and it can crit for much higher than that bubble gave. I only ever used it as a just-in-case feature.
You all really need to quit complaining about it, minstrels got a major buff with RoI and they slightly nerfed one of our skills with U6, not a big deal, adapt and play better.
lulz.....priceless. You dont even know how to play your own dam class...lol
Thanks so much for the (not at all) informative response.
You are, however, correct in one respect; I don't do PvMP at all so no, I don't have a clue how gameplay changes for Minstrels in the Ettenmoors. On the bright side, there have been some very helpful response to my thread asking about this, so now I think I have something of a grasp on the situation.
Thank you for admitting that even w/o any heals in WS your class is still complete godmode. =)
*Now back to our regularly scheduled crying from ez mode minis because their bubble took a slight nerf *
hmm yes godmode.... sure i can take on a creep 1v1 and still win at time, but with 2+ with no heals im pretty darn squishy. i know this to because ive been going into the moors witout using heals and getting killed pretty fast when they focus on me. i guess that makes me a moron who can use his class and can only use OP classes, sorry im not an elitist and come up to your standards
Ssupermann: I hate minis, they have satellite lazers
You all really need to quit complaining about it, minstrels got a major buff with RoI and they slightly nerfed one of our skills with U6, not a big deal, adapt and play better.
Exactly. It really isnt a big deal considering how strong the class is atm. Im sure my mini will continue to do just fine....
Increase the bubble when traited 3 deep in blue. This prevents minis from using it to full effect when traited 5 deep in WS (ie balance for solo pvp, while keeping an essential tool for minis as a support class). There are creative ways to balance for both.
In all of the other rabble rabbling, I was relieved to find a post that is actually offering constructive thought. When changes affect classes, its not a bad thing to discuss what has happened or how things could be improved.
The bubble in the Moors is knocked off in a few hits, if not completely in one, I don't mind the change for the Moors; I'd like the change suggested by Geoboy for my raid progression. Someone suggested that they only need to hit RtS on themselves and don't need the bubble. When your entire group is taking heavy damage, it's useful to hit the bubble for yourself so you can focus on everyone else for that second or two that it holds. Someone else said it makes our jobs "easier," sure, but do not assume that the minstrel role is just "ezmode" stroll in the park in t2 raiding.
In short: We'll all adapt to the adjustments, but let's keep discussion open and put aside "creep rage" and "elitism" to keep avenues open, eh?
Thank you for admitting that even w/o any heals in WS your class is still complete godmode. =)
*Now back to our regularly scheduled crying from ez mode minis because their bubble took a slight nerf *
Now... how exactly is a Minstrel *easy mode* compared to any creep?
- To get to be competitive in the Moors, the Minstrel has to level up to 75, grind virtues to where they're all up to speed for appropriate stat bumps, tac mits and tac mastery ratings... AND THEN hope to win new gear on multitudes of countless raids.
- For a Creep to get to be competitive in the Moors... get a Freep to lvl 10, flip to Monster Play, roll a Creep... lvl 75 instantly, do quests in the Moors til Rank 9 *AND THEN* start playing against Freeps... or pay cash to get EVERY SKILL you could ever want for your Creep class.
The logic of where a Minstrel is easy mode compared to any Creep class is stupid.
Someone suggested that they only need to hit RtS on themselves and don't need the bubble. When your entire group is taking heavy damage, it's useful to hit the bubble for yourself so you can focus on everyone else for that second or two that it holds. Someone else said it makes our jobs "easier," sure, but do not assume that the minstrel role is just "ezmode" stroll in the park in t2 raiding.
Well said Doomsie, well said, and a great suggestion by Geoboy, whose posts in the Warden Forums also make huge amounts of sense.
The bubble is particularly useful when the whole group is taking heavy damage, and I do use it at those times so that I can heal others in the group, I'm not saying it isn't needed. I was just stating that the nerf to the bubble isn't that big of a deal when you've got a heal you can get off just as quick that can give you, essentially, the same benefit. Even before they nerfed it, RtS could easily heal for more than the bubble provided. And with a 0.3s induc, the difference in cast time is barely noticeable.
This idea that 1 min/1 rk healing a raid SHOULD be superior to 2 minstrels is ridiculous.
RK's are perfectly viable dps in a raid setting. Minstrels are not. Being able to burst dps through landscape mobs is very different from sustained raid dps. If you then replace the 2nd minstrel in a raid with a healing rk too, that dramatically reduces the role for minstrels in raids as long as the class does not have another raid option (which currently it does not now).
Saying that minstrels can buff isn't an answer. One of our primary buffs (BOW) was just nerfed and our buffs right now do not replace a captain or otherwise justify replacing another class.
I play to raid. PvMP is an occasional distraction for me. I have an RK too. If RK's are going to heal as well as minstrels and dps better in a raid setting, why would I keep playing my minstrel besides nostalgia? And what do I tell the other very good minstrel in our kin who doesn't have an alt? Sorry, you are out of luck I have to take an RK healer, you better start lvling an alt?
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-Findaratos mini ~ Shock and Awe
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I personally think they are awesome! 
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