Thread: Burg claims he will still win with zero Audacity

High ranking Burgs response when I asked him about the new Audacity PVMP armor, and if he was planning to give up the Auto-Dev bonus :

Originally Posted by Reichpapers

Not in the least. Personally, I'd rather keep the dev crit Isen armor over audacity armor. Audacity isn't going to help me do more damage, and we already have plenty of ways to mitigate CC and damage..so it's meh.

A) Freep without audacity vs Creep without audacity = Quick and painless death to creep.

B) Freep with audacity vs Creep with audacity = Long and cruel version of the torture to creep.

C) Freep with audacity vs Creep without audacity = Classic greenie hunt for freeps (They can even go AFK while fighting).

D) Freep without audacity vs Creep with audacity = Slightly better version of A.

IIRC all Creeps and Freeps are given Rank 1 of Audacity free. This is because Freeps only have 6 pieces of gear to wear (1 audacity per piece). The base bonus' on Rank 1 are:

-10% Incoming Damage
-25% Reduced CC

So he is only giving up 20% incoming damage reduction and 25% reduction on CC for a huge boost to his DPS. Any competent burg should annihilate a creep without audacity gear in U6 so I tend to agree with him.

Originally Posted by Commish

IIRC all Creeps and Freeps are given Rank 1 of Audacity free. This is because Freeps only have 6 pieces of gear to wear (1 audacity per piece). The base bonus' on Rank 1 are:

-10% Incoming Damage
-25% Reduced CC

So he is only giving up 20% incoming damage reduction and 25% reduction on CC for a huge boost to his DPS. Any competent burg should annihilate a creep without audacity gear in U6 so I tend to agree with him.

Isnt the point of Audacity to "balance" PVMP by slowing the pace of PvMP combat?

This is the Devs solution to "increased player (Freep) potency"....Here you go Creeps, this will save you !

But we have Freeps already stating " Go ahead and use it Creep, but I dont need it...you will still lose"

Bring it on I guess

Originally Posted by PurebloodWorg

Isnt the point of Audacity to "balance" PVMP by slowing the pace of PvMP combat?

This is the Devs solution to "increased player (Freep) potency"....Here you go Creeps, this will save you !

But we have Freeps already stating " Go ahead and use it Creep, but I dont need it...you will still lose"

Bring it on I guess

Its not really to balance pvmp, it will slow combat down, allowing some classes to shine (wls and defilers?), and others will be hindered a bit (hunters).

I think it will not necessary be a must have, but the new pvmp armor with audacity will make a difference.

Originally Posted by Daec

Its not really to balance pvmp, it will slow combat down, allowing some classes to shine (wls and defilers?), and others will be hindered a bit (hunters).

I think it will not necessary be a must have, but the new pvmp armor with audacity will make a difference.

Burgs are already planning to use Macros to exploit the %Dev on the new Audacity armor

I was thinking it was a loss for them...but actually they will end up with a continuous +20% Dev chance on ALL attacks

Lets just hope Orions changes to Wargs are good enough

Originally Posted by PurebloodWorg

Burgs are already planning to use Macros to exploit the %Dev on the new Audacity armor

I was thinking it was a loss for them...but actually they will end up with a continuous +20% Dev chance on ALL attacks

Lets just hope Orions changes to Wargs are good enough

Pretty sure macro functions are a bannable offense (while i am not sure on the exact details on which turbine determines if its an offense or not).

I may be mistaken, but the people with macro functions on their keyboards, or 3rd party programs are not the norm.

Originally Posted by Daec

Pretty sure macro functions are a bannable offense (while i am not sure on the exact details on which turbine determines if its an offense or not).

I may be mistaken, but the people with macro functions on their keyboards, or 3rd party programs are not the norm.

From the Code of Conduct:

18. You may not create, post, use or distribute any utilities, emulators or other third party software tools without the express written permission of Turbine (including, without limitation, macroing programs, botting programs, server emulators, client hacks, map hacks, and data gathering utilities).

Source: http://www.lotro.com/support/1033-coc

Originally Posted by Stoggerius

From the Code of Conduct:

18. You may not create, post, use or distribute any utilities, emulators or other third party software tools without the express written permission of Turbine (including, without limitation, macroing programs, botting programs, server emulators, client hacks, map hacks, and data gathering utilities).

Source: http://www.lotro.com/support/1033-coc

Bolded part is where it becomes hazy... but i have heard of people being banned for macroing the burg tricks, if by software or hardware i am unsure.

I am to lazy to sift through the CoC, but a lot of games include a clause that amounts to "more than one action may not be performed with 1 key stroke" that covers hardware macros as well.


Edit: i'd still advise you report anyone who macros this.

Originally Posted by Daec

Bolded part is where it becomes hazy... but i have heard of people being banned for macroing the burg tricks, if by software or hardware i am unsure.

I am to lazy to sift through the CoC, but a lot of games include a clause that amounts to "more than one action may not be performed with 1 key stroke" that covers hardware macros as well.


Edit: i'd still advise you report anyone who macros this.

I always liked the Improved Counter Defense exploit that no one got banned for using. U5 fixed it, but it was used against me on Bullroarer this week, I give it a 0-5% chance of being fixed before it goes live.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4aElJJuuuv4

Originally Posted by klorphaxius

I always liked the Improved Counter Defense exploit that no one got banned for using. U5 fixed it, but it was used against me on Bullroarer this week, I give it a 0-5% chance of being fixed before it goes live.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4aElJJuuuv4

im fairly sure it was actually never fixed...

You think they'll ban people for using macros to switch sets? Using the same exact logic people tried to use against boxing in the 'moors?

That's a long road to nowhere, good luck.

With this CCr eduction , CC classes are completely usless. Especially now since Immunity brand can provide slow immunity also.

Imagine weaver vs random freep

Loremaster vs random creep


Balance is even more meh........

Originally Posted by Daec

Pretty sure macro functions are a bannable offense (while i am not sure on the exact details on which turbine determines if its an offense or not).

I may be mistaken, but the people with macro functions on their keyboards, or 3rd party programs are not the norm.

No freep willl ever be banned for exploiting. On top of bridges, thats OK!! In creep rez circles, thats OK!! In grams, Thats ok!! Pvmp exists only to help freeps ego after the new raid bugged out for the 20000th time.

Originally Posted by Efol

No freep willl ever be banned for exploiting. On top of bridges, thats OK!! In creep rez circles, thats OK!! In grams, Thats ok!! Pvmp exists only to help freeps ego after the new raid bugged out for the 20000th time.

Uh huh........

How do you prove someone used a macro?

I dont think you can

Originally Posted by Stoggerius

From the Code of Conduct:

18. You may not create, post, use or distribute any utilities, emulators or other third party software tools without the express written permission of Turbine (including, without limitation, macroing programs, botting programs, server emulators, client hacks, map hacks, and data gathering utilities).

Source: http://www.lotro.com/support/1033-coc

It points out software, not hardware aka Razer products for gamers

you should just play a burg.....


or have you been down that road?



PS> there was a long diolog in the warden forums between a dev and some players talking about macro set ups and the best keyboard to use/buy a wile back. Most guards I know already do this for self heals. So, old irelivent news?

Originally Posted by Stoggerius

From the Code of Conduct:

18. You may not create, post, use or distribute any utilities, emulators or other third party software tools without the express written permission of Turbine (including, without limitation, macroing programs, botting programs, server emulators, client hacks, map hacks, and data gathering utilities).

Source: http://www.lotro.com/support/1033-coc

That's odd and ambiguous given there have been Lotro designed keymaps and support for various macro keyboards and stuff.

Originally Posted by PhantomPunkk

That's odd and ambiguous given there have been Lotro designed keymaps and support for various macro keyboards and stuff.

That's how the CoC works, it's applies when they want against who they want. Some people get banned for language that others don't even get a warning for, creeps get banned for minor exploits, freeps run around exploiting with impunity.

Originally Posted by PurebloodWorg

How do you prove someone used a macro?

I dont think you can

Come now, you're more clever than that.













A: Get them to admit to it in chat/tells then file the report.

Originally Posted by PurebloodWorg

High ranking Burgs response when I asked him about the new Audacity PVMP armor, and if he was planning to give up the Auto-Dev bonus :

Why would any freep want to give up armor that decreases their base stat that boosts their crit chance? Ive yet to see a concise or coherent answer to this question. % chance to crit wins the day IMHO (we'll see soon enough). The dev crit is the single most potent effect we have in the moors, freeps have it through their builds. I mean, what are they going to do get PvP armor to mitigate 30% of my 1300K crit as a warg at the price of 300 off their base stat?

I dont think so, and besides he'll have 1 audacity which is (from the dev notes) going to represent a good majority of the bonus anyway.

Originally Posted by Thorgrum

Why would any freep want to give up armor that decreases their base stat that boosts their crit chance? Ive yet to see a concise or coherent answer to this question. % chance to crit wins the day IMHO (we'll see soon enough). The dev crit is the single most potent effect we have in the moors, freeps have it through their builds. I mean, what are they going to do get PvP armor to mitigate 30% of my 1300K crit as a warg at the price of 300 off their base stat?

I dont think so, and besides he'll have 1 audacity which is (from the dev notes) going to represent a good majority of the bonus anyway.

Because losing 300 of your offensive stat costs you a LOT less dps than the 20% additional sturdiness the next 6 ranks of audacity grants you (do the math, it is true).

Of course, gearswap macros patently break this system... but that's Turbine's problem.

Originally Posted by Efol

No freep willl ever be banned for exploiting. On top of bridges, thats OK!! In creep rez circles, thats OK!! In grams, Thats ok!! Pvmp exists only to help freeps ego after the new raid bugged out for the 20000th time.

Just like no creep will ever be banned for cheating and self farming 200k+ infamy a night.

Meh. Turbine has been pretty lax in enforcing anything in PvMP (Both sides! I don't believe this tin foil hat garbage about creep accounts being banned more then freepside) ...BUT most players who exploit and do stupid things tend to be the minority.

We can't get wrapped up in what the minority are doing. Those players die out fast and rarely, if ever, really stick with it.

I'm personally pretty excited to see combat slow down again. I loved the "dance" of playing a Champ in SoA and I'm hopeful that some of that feel of more tactical and thoughtful PvMP will come back.

Time will tell.

Originally Posted by Sezneg

Because losing 300 of your offensive stat costs you a LOT less dps than the 20% additional sturdiness the next 6 ranks of audacity grants you (do the math, it is true).

Of course, gearswap macros patently break this system... but that's Turbine's problem.

If you say the math is accurate then I'll concede. It dosent make sense to me why someone would give up a strength to play into someone elses strength but common sense be dammed I guess. If Im a freep I want to output as much damage as possible, unless The changes made increase the damage I take to a point I have to mitigate them. I’m not seeing a great buff on DPS for creeps so the rough math for me was:
1. R7 warg crits 1300k once in 4 months. Less 30% =-390 for a total of 910 damage off a crit if the freep has audacity.

2. Freep RK does 5K on an epic conclusion happens nightly. Less 30% =-1500 for a total damage of 3500.

So now you’re telling me the freep in 2 is going to cut is damage output and use the PVP gear? We are back to the same thing we had post update, damage wins the day as audacity is applied to both toons. Either way the freep outputs more damage. I’m guessing someone out there isn’t going to embrace the PvP armor (they are getting R1 audacity off the bat anyway, which as I understand it has most of the defensive bonus’s) and we will see.

Watch the ridiculous crit thread started by our commander pure, willing to bet it continues to fill with the majority of damage being done by freeps.

Originally Posted by Thane9

Just like no creep will ever be banned for cheating and self farming 200k+ infamy a night.

Meh. Turbine has been pretty lax in enforcing anything in PvMP (Both sides! I don't believe this tin foil hat garbage about creep accounts being banned more then freepside) ...BUT most players who exploit and do stupid things tend to be the minority.

We can't get wrapped up in what the minority are doing. Those players die out fast and rarely, if ever, really stick with it.

I'm personally pretty excited to see combat slow down again. I loved the "dance" of playing a Champ in SoA and I'm hopeful that some of that feel of more tactical and thoughtful PvMP will come back.

Time will tell.

Please dont even try to compare someone wasting there time farming themselfs that has ZERO effect on others, to exploiting to kill other people

Originally Posted by Thane9

Just like no creep will ever be banned for cheating and self farming 200k+ infamy a night.

Meh. Turbine has been pretty lax in enforcing anything in PvMP (Both sides! I don't believe this tin foil hat garbage about creep accounts being banned more then freepside) ...BUT most players who exploit and do stupid things tend to be the minority.

We can't get wrapped up in what the minority are doing. Those players die out fast and rarely, if ever, really stick with it.

I'm personally pretty excited to see combat slow down again. I loved the "dance" of playing a Champ in SoA and I'm hopeful that some of that feel of more tactical and thoughtful PvMP will come back.

Time will tell.

Come to the dark side and then come back and profess we shouldn’t focus on the minority. When you go in knowing you can’t win over and over, that the people you are fighting have been built for a PvE experience and you haven’t had adequate adjustments to handle the damage output you bet you can focus on the minority. It’s that minority that’s exploiting to make it even easier than it already is. I mean, hunters critical for 2-5k, do they really need to be on a pillar creeps can’t climb? Burgs have an auto crit attack, do they really need to sneak into grams for the kill?

You ever get your throat cut by a burg while you’re standing at grams getting the slug pit task?

Now to your “slow down” wonderful, you’ll get the kill in 10 seconds instead of 7. You excited about that, really? Problem is freeps had their damage output increased dramatically for the ROI expansion with the uncapping of stats. The fix, audacity is being applied to both sides, ergo it’s not a fix it’s a distraction from the problem with the moors. Now if we start seeing dev crits from creeps for 3-7k nightly…. That’s a different ball game.

The results look to me like they are going to be the same just slower. We’ve been distracted, had audacity been creep only then we’d have some serious PvP happening. You’d get your damage for the PvE and raids id have a way to mitigate it. Everyone wins, that didn’t happen.

Originally Posted by Thorgrum

If you say the math is accurate then I'll concede. It dosent make sense to me why someone would give up a strength to play into someone elses strength but common sense be dammed I guess. If Im a freep I want to output as much damage as possible, unless The changes made increase the damage I take to a point I have to mitigate them. I’m not seeing a great buff on DPS for creeps so the rough math for me was:
1. R7 warg crits 1300k once in 4 months. Less 30% =-390 for a total of 910 damage off a crit if the freep has audacity.

2. Freep RK does 5K on an epic conclusion happens nightly. Less 30% =-1500 for a total damage of 3500.

So now you’re telling me the freep in 2 is going to cut is damage output and use the PVP gear? We are back to the same thing we had post update, damage wins the day as audacity is applied to both toons. Either way the freep outputs more damage. I’m guessing someone out there isn’t going to embrace the PvP armor (they are getting R1 audacity off the bat anyway, which as I understand it has most of the defensive bonus’s) and we will see.

Watch the ridiculous crit thread started by our commander pure, willing to bet it continues to fill with the majority of damage being done by freeps.

You totally get where I'm coming from!

Originally Posted by Efol

Please dont even try to compare someone wasting there time farming themselfs that has ZERO effect on others, to exploiting to kill other people

Both are clearly cheating. I guess you're in favor of exploiting PvE side then too huh? No harm to other players...why not just allow hacking the database for free loot upgrades? That would have zero effect on other people right?

No effect? Tell it to the people who get killed by a R14 warg that should've had his account deleted.

Originally Posted by Thorgrum

Come to the dark side and then come back and profess we shouldn’t focus on the minority. When you go in knowing you can’t win over and over, that the people you are fighting have been built for a PvE experience and you haven’t had adequate adjustments to handle the damage output you bet you can focus on the minority. It’s that minority that’s exploiting to make it even easier than it already is. I mean, hunters critical for 2-5k, do they really need to be on a pillar creeps can’t climb? Burgs have an auto crit attack, do they really need to sneak into grams for the kill?

You ever get your throat cut by a burg while you’re standing at grams getting the slug pit task?

Now to your “slow down” wonderful, you’ll get the kill in 10 seconds instead of 7. You excited about that, really? Problem is freeps had their damage output increased dramatically for the ROI expansion with the uncapping of stats. The fix, audacity is being applied to both sides, ergo it’s not a fix it’s a distraction from the problem with the moors. Now if we start seeing dev crits from creeps for 3-7k nightly…. That’s a different ball game.

The results look to me like they are going to be the same just slower. We’ve been distracted, had audacity been creep only then we’d have some serious PvP happening. You’d get your damage for the PvE and raids id have a way to mitigate it. Everyone wins, that didn’t happen.

I'm honestly not understanding your point. Are you suggesting that freeps should be banned for exploiting but creeps should not? Because of poor game design and imbalace?

There is ZERO excuse for EITHER side to cheat and BOTH should result in account termination.

These are two seperate issues. Game balance and Cheating. The lack of one NEVER justifies the latter.

Originally Posted by cnrsnl

A) Freep without audacity vs Creep without audacity = Quick and painless death to creep.

B) Freep with audacity vs Creep with audacity = Long and cruel version of the torture to creep.

C) Freep with audacity vs Creep without audacity = Classic greenie hunt for freeps (They can even go AFK while fighting).

D) Freep without audacity vs Creep with audacity = Slightly better version of A.

Hmm BW freeps are always grouped and FF or 1 vs 1ing so not so confident in your description.

Originally Posted by Thorgrum

If you say the math is accurate then I'll concede. It dosent make sense to me why someone would give up a strength to play into someone elses strength but common sense be dammed I guess. If Im a freep I want to output as much damage as possible, unless The changes made increase the damage I take to a point I have to mitigate them. I’m not seeing a great buff on DPS for creeps so the rough math for me was:
1. R7 warg crits 1300k once in 4 months. Less 30% =-390 for a total of 910 damage off a crit if the freep has audacity.

2. Freep RK does 5K on an epic conclusion happens nightly. Less 30% =-1500 for a total damage of 3500.

So now you’re telling me the freep in 2 is going to cut is damage output and use the PVP gear? We are back to the same thing we had post update, damage wins the day as audacity is applied to both toons. Either way the freep outputs more damage. I’m guessing someone out there isn’t going to embrace the PvP armor (they are getting R1 audacity off the bat anyway, which as I understand it has most of the defensive bonus’s) and we will see.

Watch the ridiculous crit thread started by our commander pure, willing to bet it continues to fill with the majority of damage being done by freeps.

EC......bah I dont even need EC anymore. My spammables are hitting for 1K a pop and Shocking Words is hitting for 5K plus.

Against npcs audacity works well, against freep crust/devs it's almost like it ain't there.

Non crit/dev attacks seem to be softer, but maybe there's a glitch when crits/devs r calculated?