Thread: Update 6: Developer Diary Feedback: Soldiers on Landscape

Originally Posted by Stubbins

I think that's the idea....to leave players with little choice than to spend TP in the store.

^ What they said.

Nail, meet hammer.

This is one of the worst ideas you had, believe me...

Now you're not even ashamed to show that you don't care about us, you just want our money.
I won't take another VIP subscription, i don't want to give my money to you anymore.

You have 2 choices:
-Give us the soldier everytime without forcing us to pay 50 times per day to have it, at least for the VIPs.
-Take it back, and put your soldier in a place where the sun never shine.

No, i'm not polite. I pay a VIP subscription. I bought EVERY extention you made. And now i have to pay to use my soldier too?

What, do you need that 25 rooms house so much?




*Guanfei, really disapointed customer*

Originally Posted by doubles84

I will not be using this feature, but that's fine because I was doing land quests just fine without a soldier.

Neither will I, if I'm not on my loremaster with a pet, I'm on my warden or my guardian(s). However:

Maybe some people will use them to tank when they play rune-keepers, or with lore masters / OP cappies for MAXIMUM POKEMON fights against red mobs.... I'd do that.

Also... are the forums set to a British timezone? I'm high, and this is freaking me out :0

False advertising? Sure it was but then there is no truth in advertising even on a good day.

Negative feedback? Sure lots of it.

Will it matter in the end? I very much doubt it. Prices might be adjusted downwards and minimally will likely be the guiding word.

Will we one day have to pass on solo landscape content without renting our own soldiers? Count on it! 10k normal mobs in U6 are but the tip of the iceberg.

Someone, somewhere firmly believes that the future of this game isn't in subscriptions, isn't in a blended business model either but rather is to be found via store revenues.

Take that thinking to the extreme and soon enough it will cost X tp just to enjoy the privilage of logging into the game. Actually playing it will take lots more and they might even be bold enough to charge tp for logging out.

Quite frankly, I was really really looking forward to this feature. I'm pretty much stopped on my highest level character because I can't really proceed without difficulty - most mobs my level have more health than I do. I can take one, but two is too much for me. (Go ahead, look at my character in my sig).

I had to spam cash shop healing potions at level 64 to even get into Mirkwood (which was meant for 60th level characters).

While clearly it would be an imbalance for those with maxed out characters and gear that have probably twice (or three times as much) morale as I do, not to mention attacks and such, you could simply dock experience - characters using the soldier only get half?

You could also let soldier use be free for VIP members. There really isn't much reason to subscribe to the game, this would be a pretty big one. Then again, I suspect the reason you make VIP not worth much anymore is because you have so many lifetime members and consider them freeloaders or something, instead of people who advanced you cash when you really needed and deserve thanks for that.

When I actually saw this on my screen I had to laugh. Its hilarious - buy a skirm soldier with TP ! not even in my wildest synical moments could I have thought this one up. Also yet another store button !

Honestly is one step forward, two steps back after the store bought armour debacle. This does everything to reinforce the image of the money grabbing, lets milk our players for every penny, you get new features but you gotta pay, boring storing maniacs that gets thrown Turbines way.

way to go very funny.

IF we must pay why cant we use DP?

Originally Posted by trancejeremy

Quite frankly, I was really really looking forward to this feature. I'm pretty much stopped on my highest level character because I can't really proceed without difficulty - most mobs my level have more health than I do. I can take one, but two is too much for me. (Go ahead, look at my character in my sig).

I had to spam cash shop healing potions at level 64 to even get into Mirkwood (which was meant for 60th level characters).

While clearly it would be an imbalance for those with maxed out characters and gear that have probably twice (or three times as much) morale as I do, not to mention attacks and such, you could simply dock experience - characters using the soldier only get half?

Thought this thread http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.php?448489-Give-casual-players-a-break! was enough IF you really wanted to improve you character. Kinda useless to troll this one as well...

I agree with the general consensus in this thread that the Soldier on Landscape feature misses the mark. I have a proposal that will meet somewhere in the middle:

Allow VIPs to have the soldier for something like 30 mins/day with no "rollover minutes". This won't unbalance the game, people can use it to get through tough spots (like some places in Mirkwood or Isengard), and with more features available for Premium players (like the latest Isengard instances), this gives people a reason to keep subscribing, especially since people at 75 don't need the XP at rest feature.

Turbine won't actually be losing any sales since VIPs who only use the feature sparingly are unlikely to pay the 100TP/hr anyway, and the people who buy the tokens will continue to do so. If anything, this is likely to get/keep VIPs, and possibly get those more frugal with their TPs to dish out for some tokens once they get a taste of the feature.

Thoughts?

Originally Posted by MadGonzo

I agree with the general consensus in this thread that the Soldier on Landscape feature misses the mark. I have a proposal that will meet somewhere in the middle:

Allow VIPs to have the soldier for something like 30 mins/day with no "rollover minutes". This won't unbalance the game, people can use it to get through tough spots (like some places in Mirkwood or Isengard), and with more features available for Premium players (like the latest Isengard instances), this gives people a reason to keep subscribing, especially since people at 75 don't need the XP at rest feature.

Turbine won't actually be losing any sales since VIPs who only use the feature sparingly are unlikely to pay the 100TP/hr anyway, and the people who buy the tokens will continue to do so. If anything, this is likely to get/keep VIPs, and possibly get those more frugal with their TPs to dish out for some tokens once they get a taste of the feature.

Thoughts?

I agree. With DP being phased out, free soldier time for VIPs could become a new 'perk'.

Originally Posted by MadGonzo

I agree with the general consensus in this thread that the Soldier on Landscape feature misses the mark. I have a proposal that will meet somewhere in the middle:

Allow VIPs to have the soldier for something like 30 mins/day with no "rollover minutes". This won't unbalance the game, people can use it to get through tough spots (like some places in Mirkwood or Isengard), and with more features available for Premium players (like the latest Isengard instances), this gives people a reason to keep subscribing, especially since people at 75 don't need the XP at rest feature.

Turbine won't actually be losing any sales since VIPs who only use the feature sparingly are unlikely to pay the 100TP/hr anyway, and the people who buy the tokens will continue to do so. If anything, this is likely to get/keep VIPs, and possibly get those more frugal with their TPs to dish out for some tokens once they get a taste of the feature.

Thoughts?

My thoughts? I'll NEVER pay for it. Even if it was for the lowest price you can have. We, as VIPs, already pay each month to play. Almost all of us bought all the extensions. And now, they ask us to pay for that new feature.
Do we look like sheeps?
There is no middle here. As a VIP, we should have all the features. So, if they don't want to give us the soldier, they can take it back. I will play without it anyway, and be sure that i won't take another VIP subscription, until that soldier is free, for the VIP at least.

Originally Posted by Guanfei

My thoughts? I'll NEVER pay for it. Even if it was for the lowest price you can have. We, as VIPs, already pay each month to play. Almost all of us bought all the extensions. And now, they ask us to pay for that new feature.
Do we look like sheeps?
There is no middle here. As a VIP, we should have all the features. So, if they don't want to give us the soldier, they can take it back. I will play without it anyway, and be sure that i won't take another VIP subscription, until that soldier is free, for the VIP at least.

I agree with you, and in fact your first statement validates my argument.

I agree that VIPs should be provided everything, but within the framework of gameplay. In other words, I have no problems paying for a special mount, certain cosmetics, or additional vault storage beyond what can be purchased with game gold. At that point, I am paying for goods or services above and beyond what the standard gameplay provides.

I, like you, believe that if a feature is in the game, those of us whose monthly subscription funds development of those features should have access to those features as well. As a long-time subscriber, I also consider the paid soldier time a slap in the face. However, I don't consider myself in the "all or nothing" category. As this pertains to VIPs, I disagree with this extreme.

I consider the soldier something like a buff. Should we as VIPs have certain permanent buffs (e.g. stats or reduced damage to equipment) that others do not or have to pay for on a regular basis? Turbine would have to up the difficulty to please the VIPs, which would be a bait and switch for the premium players who would then have to pony up maintenance costs to be competitive.

If we look at the soldier as a buff (and compare it to something like a 30 min. increased power tome), then you are in fact rewarding the VIP for continued loyalty and giving him the gameplay for which he pays a monthly subscription. At the same time, you are not unbalancing the game, and if the VIP chooses to purchase a token, he is choosing to expand the boundaries of the soldier feature (much like purchasing extra storage).

Reduce the cost of buying a soldier summon from the skirmish camps as the pricing is currently too high for me to ever bother. Also provide more options of what tokens you wish to use to buy the skirmish summon tokens depending on what types of barter items you have more/less of

I'll agree with some of the statements that some skirmish soldier time should be available to VIP's for free each day without any carryover. That said, the price ought to be down-adjusted by 50% for premium players to make it worth our while. Not that DDO's challenge system is much to write home about, but it is definitely better than this.

In the end, I was excited for this as a "feature" and it turned into a "could care less" pretty darn quick. I will never use it now, if for any other reason than to not give Turbine any $$ for a poorly marketed item. My hope is that this is the least profitable store item vs. development time spent ever to truly send the message.

Took one look at the price, laughed, then pushed the icon far off my screen.

Take a look at the price, now look at your Turbine,points, now back to the price.
Now look at me....I'm on a horse

I think the working title of U6 must have been KACHING!!!!!

Originally Posted by Aedon

Took one look at the price, laughed, then pushed the icon far off my screen.

It may not have been obvious as the UI is very tiny, but there is an "x" to click on to kill the soldier window. No need to move objects around on UI.

Also not thrilled with the implementation, though I enjoy the concept:

-Personally, paying the 100tp isn't a big deal because I'm a Lifetime sub VIP. However, for many players, it'll be a stretch, and a feature they never use.
-Having landscape companions has the potential to set a precedent...one that many players fear might lead to more difficult landscape content mandating its use. I understand wanting to keep this as an optional feature.
-Currently can't use soldiers in instances. I personally would have zero problem with using them so long as you don't exceed the instance population cap by adding soldiers + players.

Originally Posted by Lohi

It may not have been obvious as the UI is very tiny, but there is an "x" to click on to kill the soldier window. No need to move objects around on UI.

LOL Thank you, I am so blind it is silly.

Originally Posted by Serin36

Also not thrilled with the implementation, though I enjoy the concept:

-Having landscape companions has the potential to set a precedent...one that many players fear might lead to more difficult landscape content mandating its use.

And there you have it. Limlight is not just about challenging content, which many of us want back in the game. its about challenging content with grind rewards. Some of the barter items are scarce so it can be attractive to go for soldier rather than group content.

Its another example of how sneakily we see game mechanice orientated around store revenue. Store not Lore. Take the DP fiasco for example. Game mechanics around Store revenue.

Its really sad because this stuff just alienates people rather than makes us feel part of something good. Just look at the official feedback threads. way more feedback for commendations rather than praising the Great River.

As a VIP, I get 500 TP per month to spend...so I gave it a try and found it a nice help with slayer deeds and such. 100TP isn't bad in all fairness; but I wouldn't buy it if I wasn't a VIP. That 1 hour of help feels like a LOT longer if used wisely, as dismissing your soldier stops the timer. I can see the hour lasting me weeks.

My huge gripe is with the marks and medallions cost of actually buying a token ingame. I'm not a hater of the store, as these features are not necessary by any means. They are a convenience. However, it feels like they Turbine have made them almost unobtainable in game just to have the ability of saying - "Well...you can get them in game too!" I think the skirmish mark price needs reducing drastically...the TP price seems fine, though.


Things to improve skirmish soldiers :

Turbine have stated they are not adding pet functionality as to not hinder pet classes with too many controls. I propose TWO toggle skills - "Take the Frontline" and "Stand Back".

- Take the Frontline : Stands in front of your character (Defaulted toggle for Warriors, Protectors)

- Stand Back : Stands close behind your character (Defaulted for Sages, Herbalists, Bannermen, Archer)

This way, you are not adding any deal of control that requires any effort other than clicking one toggle skill, which will last the entire duration of the skirmish soldiers life. Having each soldier class have one of those skills set as default removes even more player interaction necessary as you're then not even required to use a toggle skill if you are happy with the default (as they are now).

As a tank, having my Warrior standing behind me would allow me to get the first pull always - without taking away from classes who want to be behind their soldier - such as Loremasters and Minstrels with Warriors / Protectors or whatever they may use.

Simple toggle skills which may add a huge benefit to soldiers - without bombarding players with control options.

I thought I would try it out just to see what the fuss was about (when u6 came out) and I fought maybe a couple mobs. As a hunter fighting 14k mobs my protector is rather useless. After summoning him and the few kills I logged off. I logged back in later that night and I no longer have time on my soldier.

I don't know if its been stipulated but in my case it seems logging off while he is summoned keeps the timer clicking.

Marks/Medallions seems like way too much and unless you're VIP I can't see how 100tp isnt too much for 1 hour service.

I'm not a store hater at all. I understand why Turbine has it and as a VIP I've made use of it pretty often. The 500 points a month is nice. I just don't see any purpose to this landscape soldier in a game built around the concept of the fellowship. I was in Limelight the other day trying to find a fellowship to run the daily quests there. While asking around in GLFF, someone responded by saying, "Just summon a soldier and do it by yourself if you can't find a group." I was taken back a bit by that suggestion because it seemed like part of the game just died for me right there. I responded with, "why on earth would I want to do that in a game built around the fellowship? I'll just wait, I'm not using TP to solo a game based on group content." That seemed to get a lot of agreement from other players on Silverlode.

Sure, there are things in the store that are helpful to things that are supposed to be solo tasks. Deed grinding, certain epic quests, crafting, etc. But when store items start replacing fellowships in actual fellowship content, we have an issue.

Besides that thought, I do think the barter cost is WAY to steep for what you're getting. It takes hours and hours of skirms, raids, and instances for 1 hour of reward? Hmm...something isn't right with that.

Originally Posted by Widoch

Besides that thought, I do think the barter cost is WAY to steep for what you're getting. It takes hours and hours of skirms, raids, and instances for 1 hour of reward? Hmm...something isn't right with that.

They make the barter cost steep so you'll look in the store and say to yourself "It woule be cheaper for me to spend 100 TP than it would all of those medallions and marks". And...that's what they want you to do.

Originally Posted by Elderban

They make the barter cost steep so you'll look in the store and say to yourself "It woule be cheaper for me to spend 100 TP than it would all of those medallions and marks". And...that's what they want you to do.

And they are wrong. Because i won't spend a single TP in the store for it. And i won't take another VIP subscription.

The didn't make me spend my TP, and they lost a VIP. Well done, Turbine.

Originally Posted by Guanfei

And they are wrong. Because i won't spend a single TP in the store for it. And i won't take another VIP subscription.

The didn't make me spend my TP, and they lost a VIP. Well done, Turbine.

I'm trying to follow your logic here.

You are no going VIP again because you don't want to spend TP to use soldiers on the landscape. Yet, when you originally signed up for VIP, you didn't spend TP on soldiers on landscape. So, what exactly has changed for you? You're still not spending TP on soldiers on the landscape.

I don't use TP on revival tombs, scrolls or buffs yet because turbine offers those services to people who are willing to spend the TP on them I should, by your logic, throw a fit, take my marbles and just go home. Is this how you're going to respond every time turbine offers something in the store that you don't really have interest in? Sure, you can do the in game work for several of the steeds, but Turbine has long offered those for TP in the store. You going to get mad an quit about that too? How about using TP for vault storage expansion rather than in game gold? Just because someone else might use the TP for them when you might just use gold, does that mean you're going to get mad and quit because there's an option for instant reception of a benefit rather than spending a few hours farming 5 gold?

I just don't get why you would rage quit over something that isn't wrong. What's wrong with offering the soldiers for TP if there are people who are willing to pay for it? I just don't really see the purpose of the soldiers on the landscape myself, but if someone wants to spend 100 TP on them, go for it. You won't find me rage quitting out of envy.

Yeah, you didn't understand at all then... Try to read all my posts here before, even if my english isn't perfect, i'm sure you will understand what i'm saying.

I don't want to give more money to people who only ask me for more money for every new feature.
As i said, we pay each month our VIP subscription, almost all VIPs also bought all extensions, a big part of what Turbine earn is from us.
And now, even after paying all those things, they dare ask us for more money.
At least, they could made the soldier free for the VIPs. It's not the feature itself i criticize. I just don't want them to think i'm only a walking wallet.
I don't know if you will understand me.

I haven't seen anybody with a soldier out nor know anybody who has used one. Personally I see no point to it and making it a pay feature gives me zero incentive to use it. Why would I need it anyway? Any solo content in the game can easily be soloed and any group content ... well you just get a group. When they first announced it I imagined there would be a specific region with tougher solo content where a soldier would be almost necessary. But as implemented I see no need to use it - I can think of better uses for my TP and marks.

I will not spend the TP on this feature cause I make it a point not to spend TP on things I can acquire in game thru normal game play.

I will also not spend the marks and medallions on this feature because Turbine made the cost WAY TOO HIGH!!!

Someone suggested a 50% decrease and I am not sure that is even enough but I might be tempted at that price to give it a try.

As it is now I will never use the feature. To me it is as if it never existed!!!

Jorlan

Agree with Bootswaddle. They are not - and should not be - needed on landscape, but there is a 'natural home' for them, inside long-overtaken group instances, to make that content - and its deeds - now accessible to soloists.

Originally Posted by jorlan

I will not spend the TP on this feature cause I make it a point not to spend TP on things I can acquire in game thru normal game play.

I will also not spend the marks and medallions on this feature because Turbine made the cost WAY TOO HIGH!!!

Someone suggested a 50% decrease and I am not sure that is even enough but I might be tempted at that price to give it a try.

As it is now I will never use the feature. To me it is as if it never existed!!!

Jorlan

Absolutely. Make it that 1 hour of solo skirmishing pays for a soldier token then maybe i'd use it. But we all know the sole reason the price is so ridiculously high - to get us to buy it from the Store.

Not going to happen.

Just checking in -- have they fixed these yet? As in, redone the ridiculous system?

No?

Oh well. I'll continue to check in monthly, as I really want to play LotRO, but not until they get this right. I'm not going to give my money to a company with such dubious business practices.