Thread: Is what I'm reading about the defiler out of date.

Originally Posted by Sniz

I imagine with the upcoming changes in flies they will become more popular than ever, too.

One of Landroval creep testing on BR told me that the flies trait now drain the target for 60-80 power per tick. If confirmed on live, that will definatly be a must have.

Edit: After testing, the (traited) Flies skill gave me 2 tick of 91 Power back during a NPC fight. Its neglectable considering Defilers got a +500 to their power pool with U6.

But the drain seems HUGE against freeps. I trashed a minstrel after draining him out of power. This certainly deserve further investigation and testing, but Homebrew might been right when he was saying Flies is the Defiler secret weapon.

Originally Posted by whitefox1313

Edit: After testing, the (traited) Flies skill gave me 2 tick of 91 Power back during a NPC fight. Its neglectable considering Defilers got a +500 to their power pool with U6.

But the drain seems HUGE against freeps. I trashed a minstrel after draining him out of power. This certainly deserve further investigation and testing, but Homebrew might been right when he was saying Flies is the Defiler secret weapon.

Lol great to hear this, sounds like U6 is going to change playstyles a bit more so I will have to test a lot more setups and strats again /sigh. Flies never use to give me power back against NPCs, my combat log always said DNT which I assume meant did not transfer so this may be a fix.

Flies allowed me to beat minis last book but now it sounds like the drain has been doubled which might cause a lot of Freep tears, i can't wait to try it out!

Originally Posted by Saicheeze

Flies allowed me to beat minis last book but now it sounds like the drain has been doubled which might cause a lot of Freep tears, i can't wait to try it out!

Freeps tears indeed! Im now able to beat almost any freep class in 1vs1, even the new Godmode FOTM Warden. I was able to do so prior U6, but against poor/average players only. Now, im beating even the best players freep side, with the exception of top RKs (i dont survive long enough to take advantage of the power drain, thanks to 6-7k EC).

Credit should be yours my friend, i wouldnt never thought of this tactic by myself.

/respect *insert Defilers gang sign here*

*edit* stuff

I wrote a lot but I will just say this: Improved flies need tweaking, and by tweaking I do not mean make them more powerful. I think they should have a lower power drain but add a boost to our dps as long as they are up. Draining a target to zero power then chasing after them trying to slowly pew pew them down is not interesting/fun/challenging/etc.

That said: top tier minis, burgs, and RKs I still haven't fully tested things out, but every other class is pretty much a cakewalk.

I am already at the point where, to make it more interesting, I try and avoid using flies during certain fights.


don't get me wrong I am not saying we are godmode, but in a controlled 1v1 what we can do to melee classes and most casters just leaves me feeling cheap and dirty.

Hello fellow defilers and other people,


Reading for a while now and was wondering if any defilers would be able to make a video of some defiler fun;
anything will do
Haven't been able to play for a while and would love to see some videos of spars/groupfights with defilers in it. Especially in this new era (Didn't play all that much in ROI and couldn't for the past 3/4 months and counting...)
In other words: Stop teasing meeeeeh and post some stuff

Have fun all and go whack some freepsies with your sticks!
Regards,

Nefburz a.k.a. Nerfy r11 defiler on Laurelin

@ Whitefox1313. Geared RK’s are my bane atm too even with 4 crit prots slotted; every other class seems to be struggling against the flies. Glad to hear your flies are providing many tears lol, hope you re-named them for when they steal your KB’s.

@ Fraegster. Yeah flies are pretty crazy right now, I didn’t expect a double up on power drain but I guess that’s what happens when people don’t bother testing out all their skills and ride the qq train of others to get an unnecessary boost. That said it is now back in the Freeps court to come up with new strategies to combat the flies, time for the other side to do some thinking for once. I have already worked with my mates champ to work out the best way to beat defilers without his cool-downs so it’s not like Freeps should be struggling if they just worked on their strategies rather than trying to face roll.

I’m in the same boat with holding back on flies in spars at times. When 1v1ing we can control the fight pretty easy now so I try make it close to get Freeps coming back for more else no-one wants to spar again. I sometimes try to make a game of having a double kb as the end result for fun, if you don’t mind dying give it a try.

@lalalaNerfylalala. I have got some raw footage since the update but my graphics are terrible so not sure I want to compile it lol. My mate has good footage of our Defiler/Reaver duos that he is trying to put together over the next couple of days that I will link once he’s done.



Tip. If there isn’t much action on your server at times and you want Comms, go blight kite Dwarf Camp for an hour without Trolls. Should net u around 1000 Comms plus cash/loot.

Originally Posted by whitefox1313

Freeps tears indeed! Im now able to beat almost any freep class in 1vs1, even the new Godmode FOTM Warden. I was able to do so prior U6, but against poor/average players only. Now, im beating even the best players freep side, with the exception of top RKs (i dont survive long enough to take advantage of the power drain, thanks to 6-7k EC).

Credit should be yours my friend, i wouldnt never thought of this tactic by myself.

/respect *insert Defilers gang sign here*

Still don't believe me that Defilers aren't op in 1v1s? . *Also throws up the Defiler gang sign* Again, major kudos to Homebrew for figuring out how great the flies are with the trait!

I haven't had many fights with RKs since the update, but they're pretty nasty now. Curse of Deadly Sorrows is extremely helpful in these fights though, so I get it up in spite of that awful induction. However, I think RKs are a class that morale corruptions and crit defense corruptions take precedence over any of the other traits. The huge EC crits will change the outcome of the fight, so it's best to be as prepared as possible for them. The bonus morale traits provide is they give you more time to recover. You were probably already using those tactics, but I thought I'd chime in about the corruptions.

Originally Posted by Me_the_Third

Still don't believe me that Defilers aren't op in 1v1s? . *Also throws up the Defiler gang sign*

We are not OP in 1vs1, far from it. But since U6 (and Flies boost), we can definatly stand our ground against even the best freeps players, no matter which class they are playing (except tops RKs). All this rely on a SINGLE SKILL doh. If it comes to be nerfed, while all else remain the same, well be back to practice dummy status. Controlled dual fights (Candy Montain style) are one thing, random 1vs1 on the field are another.

This being said, i think Defilers are in a good spot overall right now, from a solo point of view. Now, from a group role perspective, theres plenty of issues that need devs attention. Let me list them and fell free to comment/add:


1-Replace one of our 3 single target HoT skill (2 is enough) by one group direct heal (800-1000 morale, 10-15 sec CD).
2-Reduce the CD from our single target heal skill from 30 sec to something like 10-15 sec.
3-Give Defilers a single target incombat rez (AoE rez is WL thing) with a 5-10 minutes CD.
4-Remove the ridiculously long CD (and trait) on out of combat rez.
5-Reduce the induction time on all our Debuff by 1 sec. (long induction are dating from SoA days and are now archaic)
6-Remove the -15% power consomption trait (totally useless now) by a power transfer trait (like LM skill).
7-Give Defilers a DPS stance (old Warspeech style), giving Defilers a +20-35% dps bonus and -50% healing output.


With such changes, Defilers would be pretty much on par with minstrel in term of healing output/group utility. Again, this is PERSONNAL opinion, please fell free to comment/add.

Originally Posted by whitefox1313

We are not OP in 1vs1, far from it. But since U6 (and Flies boost), we can definatly stand our ground against even the best freeps players, no matter which class they are playing (except tops RKs). All this rely on a SINGLE SKILL doh. If it comes to be nerfed, while all else remain the same, well be back to practice dummy status. Controlled dual fights (Candy Montain style) are one thing, random 1vs1 on the field are another.

This being said, i think Defilers are in a good spot overall right now, from a solo point of view. Now, from a group role perspective, theres plenty of issues that need devs attention. Let me list them and fell free to comment/add:


1-Replace one of our 3 single target HoT skill (2 is enough) by one group direct heal (800-1000 morale, 10-15 sec CD).
2-Reduce the CD from our single target heal skill from 30 sec to something like 10-15 sec.
3-Give Defilers a single target incombat rez (AoE rez is WL thing) with a 5-10 minutes CD.
4-Remove the ridiculously long CD (and trait) on out of combat rez.
5-Reduce the induction time on all our Debuff by 1 sec. (long induction are dating from SoA days and are now archaic)
6-Remove the -15% power consomption trait (totally useless now) by a power transfer trait (like LM skill).
7-Give Defilers a DPS stance (old Warspeech style), giving Defilers a +20-35% dps bonus and -50% healing output.


With such changes, Defilers would be pretty much on par with minstrel in term of healing output/group utility. Again, this is PERSONNAL opinion, please fell free to comment/add.

1v1 defilers are much more viable now than they were before, I have been on both sides of a champ - defiler 1v1 and can tell you that the champ should win, but now requires some decent play and using CDs and bubbles.

In a raid PvP situation the healing is still insufficient to keep others alive and the out of combat single target rez on long CD is laughably bad.

I would like to add a group heal skill, to our current arsenal, reduce CD on our one big heal and reduce induction or increase range on our induction heals.

Debuffs needs to be without induction and greater range LM, they are not that good so we should be able to pretty much spam them on a group, this would also make blight better if we can use debuffs to force disease pots and then get blight up as it stands freeps can save their disease pots for blight and pot off the dot since we can't debuff.

I am okay with limited dps, I would be fine being a healer/support if I could be a good healer.

I had a conversation with a Defiler the other night who didn't realize this so FYI - you can heal your flies. In 1v1s some freeps are taking to attacking my flies, fine I will just heal them a bit. Not always needed, but yeah you can heal the flies.

Oh same defiler didn't realize you could rename your flies by targetting them when they are up, right clicking etc.

*edit* deleted some stuff that didn't really matter

Yeah geared RKs are still hard, only one I know of who runs around looking for 1v1s also tends to engage when I am covered in Dwarves or hobbit NPCs so tough to say how I would really fair against him. Our last *clean* 1v1 ended with him nearly out of power, but I took a nice 5.2k EC in the snout which dropped me Granted that was at Audacity 3 or so, now I have 7, so that might be enough to turn the tables /shrug

Originally Posted by whitefox1313

This being said, i think Defilers are in a good spot overall right now, from a solo point of view. Now, from a group role perspective, theres plenty of issues that need devs attention. Let me list them and fell free to comment/add:


1-Replace one of our 3 single target HoT skill (2 is enough) by one group direct heal (800-1000 morale, 10-15 sec CD).
2-Reduce the CD from our single target heal skill from 30 sec to something like 10-15 sec.
3-Give Defilers a single target incombat rez (AoE rez is WL thing) with a 5-10 minutes CD.
4-Remove the ridiculously long CD (and trait) on out of combat rez.
5-Reduce the induction time on all our Debuff by 1 sec. (long induction are dating from SoA days and are now archaic)
6-Remove the -15% power consomption trait (totally useless now) by a power transfer trait (like LM skill).
7-Give Defilers a DPS stance (old Warspeech style), giving Defilers a +20-35% dps bonus and -50% healing output.


With such changes, Defilers would be pretty much on par with minstrel in term of healing output/group utility. Again, this is PERSONNAL opinion, please fell free to comment/add.

I'll agree that Defilers need some buffs for groups, particularly in raids.

1- Sounds good to me, though it would also be helpful if Efflorescence was brought into a 30/30 cd/duration ratio.
2- If that went through I think item 1 would need to be made less potent. The lower cd would give the Defiler the edge in single target healing, so WLs would need to keep an advantage in group healing.
3- 5-10 min cd for a single target rez? The WL rez is 6 minutes for 5 people. I think a single target version could be brought down to 2 minutes and still be balanced. You could argue that Freeps have a longer cd for a single target rez, but Creeps have always had more deaths during a raid.
4- Yes, remove the trait. I'd also say bring the cd down to zero, but only if we're brought to the point where raid leaders will prefer us healing to being rez bots.
5- Agreed, the induction is too long. I'd also bring Deadly Sorrows in line with the rest of them. Could even possibly be given a small number of aoe targets on all of them.
6- That's a really good idea, especially considering what combat pace is like now. Giving creeps a power drain could help even out the freep/creep healing imbalance. I'd also be in favor of cutting down the number of traits Defilers have in general, and just integrate the bonuses into passives.
7- A DPS stance would be pretty nice, though I'd like to see more ideas tossed around about its implementation.

Some very good changes overall, to which I'd add a couple of things that have been tossed out before.

8- I can't remember if it was this thread or a different one, but someone brought up that Defilers are the only induction class that has no way of preventing induction setback somehow. Sounds like a fair change to me.
9- A totem. Whether one for buffing, debuffing, or healing could be decided later, I just think it fits the class.
10- Change Blessing of Darkness so that the Defiler takes only 50% of the damage. Right now, it's easily interrupted and painfully obvious when it's being done, so it could use some sprucing up.

Edit 1: I thought about it a bit more, and I'd bump the cd of the in combat rez up to 3 minutes. I'd also add one more bullet to the list

11- Tenderize needs improvement. Common damage doesn't really have any place in the moors anymore, and with Audacity the daze's duration is brought down to 1.25 seconds before diminishing returns.

Some of these changes aren't aimed only towards raiding, but I think if we do get an update than some quality of life changes would be great to have too.

As promised a bit of U6 group footage from my mate (Reaver POV).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W3w_70aKSyg

Originally Posted by Saicheeze

As promised a bit of U6 group footage from my mate (Reaver POV).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W3w_70aKSyg

Good stuff bro. But was it *Noobs Night* when you shooted this? All the freeps are very low rank (lol at the level 75 champion with 6.5k morale and 1.5k power...or the 8.5k morale minstrel running around like a headless chicken doing nothing).

Hey Homebrew,

thanks for the footage
Now I want to see more videos people, show me your playing

On a different note:
I must be the only one still, but I don't like the store to buy skills/brands etc., even if I have thousands of tp's saved up..
Was semi-glad when I was able to buy the last few skills with destinypoints when we could. Heh, but even then it was a disappointment..(blight/gooey gourd)
Just find it strange that I read about the wonderful powerdraining flies bought from the store (albeit understandable since the improvedflies-trait is like rank 14) that it is a nice thingy to win 1vs1's these days.
(And ofcourse traited blight for group/raidsettings.)

Guess I must be silly and the ship of disliking the store has sailed by now :P
They -Turbine- will never balance anymore, so I think it's taking what you can get then nowadays ^^

I am fairly sure that I won't be playing all that much when I finally can get my pc fixed that is.
Not looking forward to the audacity/commendations stuff. Casually playing I might be able to pull off.
(Although I wouldn't mind getting rank 12 some day) :P Could have been it by now if not for silly computers breaking on me...


Ehm, just more videos, yes more videos puhlease


greetings,

Nefburz a.k.a. Nerfy R11 defiler on Laurelin (pre-roi)

WIth r7 audacity, blight and improved flies only averaeg geared mini's can flat out destroy you 1v1. Any other class played by an average player will be an easy win, except shield wardens because the fight will not end. Better champs and lucky hunters and rks can kill you as well, but most of that depends on crits. For hunters dont stand and take their shots run around them so they cant take a shot, and fear them as much as u can. For any class make sure your flies are up 24/7. Ranked defilers are one of the most OP classes in 1v1's, if you are having trouble at a high rank then you are doing something wrong.
~Glora

they need an update, namely a dps supreme stance like minis with the ability to heal themselves but healing others is severely hampered

Originally Posted by whitefox1313

Its possible to kill any poor/average played freep class if you know what your doing. And you clearly do. But my point was refering to decently skilled/geared players.

No offense toward Rinen, but a burglar with no PvP set, no first ager and a rating of 1180 is NOT falling into that category. This guy is doing something wrong, probably due to lack of experience, while fighting you.

I may suggest to check in the leaderboard Nutty, Echlon or Alaster for exemple to understand what im dealing with on Landroval. Clearly not the same league.

No offense taken man but i would like to make clear up some things about me to explain my experience as a burg. Ive been playing for 3 years now and the only class ive had is my burglar. I have never cared about rating in the moors because i find it more fun to play with out thinking about the numbers. In spars i use no cooldowns against any class and never use morale power wound disease poison fear stun root or fear pots. I enjoy raiding in the game too and dont like to waste my resources on a part of the game that really doesnt give any improvement besides practicing skills. as for my rating... well i enjoy 1v24ing
heres my current wartab.
to comment on the forum the way burgs should fight defilers is to stay as up close and personal as possible (mostly what to do with any enemy) while feared concentrate on staying on their backside in hopes of line of sighting damage dealing inductions. while not feared concetrate on staying on their backside for positional use glee as soon as enough morale opens up for the heal to take full effect and start using lots of subtle stabs. start the fight out with a dust addle to get the 2 most important debuffs up as soon as possible (slow and addle induction)usually they will let you have reveal on before the fight. things to recognize if playing a defiler: if the burg hasnt used aim watch for it its the purple thing once it goes up drop your fear before they twist to stop alot of damage.
defiler is one of the toughest classes to beat out there and idmel plays one really well and i would heed his advice. now ill get off my soap box and continue suiciding cheers!

Originally Posted by lalalaNerfylalala

Hey Homebrew,

Ehm, just more videos, yes more videos puhlease


greetings,

Nefburz a.k.a. Nerfy R11 defiler on Laurelin (pre-roi)

http://www.youtube.com/user/randomus...l?feature=mhee

So how are Pro Flies when it comes to raid/group fighting? Still cause freeps issues with power drain and increased miss chance? With the sale on at the mo I was thinking of getting them. I reckon I could stand to swap them for Pro Efflo-thingy (+10m range, -15% power cost).

Anyone? The sale's not on for much longer...

Originally Posted by the_bursk

Anyone? The sale's not on for much longer...

I don't have any store skills/traits

From what I've been told Blight skill is supposed to be a must... The flies trait apparently do some serious power drain. Don't know.
Do you honestly group much to use Eff? probably not... and its a mid rank trait anyhow.

Thanks, StoneSpeak. I was hoping to hear from some people who raid and have tried Pro Flies while raiding, and how effective it is. Think sale is over now, so I guess it doesn't matter anymore.

Originally Posted by the_bursk

So how are Pro Flies when it comes to raid/group fighting? Still cause freeps issues with power drain and increased miss chance? With the sale on at the mo I was thinking of getting them. I reckon I could stand to swap them for Pro Efflo-thingy (+10m range, -15% power cost).

Enhanced Flies are slightly different in Raid/Groups than in solo. You can't always tell if the flies will stick to a target when you throw them in a Freep ball. And just like any pet, they can pull NPC agro on you or the group which may not be desirable. That said, thrown into the center of a crowd, their power drain is AOE and can be a game changer in a drawn out battle, especially if two or more flies are thrown. Between a couple of Blights, Flies, and a Warg piddle, there's a lot of debuffs going on in that mix that are hard to counter. I don't go anywhere without Enhanced Blight or Enhanced Flies now. FYI, Health Boost, Fast Lob, Enhanced Rez, Adv Fungal Spores, and Blessing of Darkness round out my traits.

But they are not OP as many claim from my Defiler's point of view. The actual Power drain on a Freep can vary widely. New PvMP Freeps with average gear, you can see the drain happen in huge chunks and they're toast. For high ranked Freeps with great gear, drain isn't so much. I am finding that against most Minis and lots of Champs or Guards, the effect is not so strong and only comes into play if I can outlast their DPS. Works best against burgs and hunters regardless of Rank or gear it seems. RKs and LMs fall in the middle and it depends upon gear and player.

I will say that while not OP, having enhanced flies have made a world of difference to my survivability. Usually, now if a Freep sees the power drain happening, they'll head for the hills. DPS still sucks, so I may not actually win a fight, but I can hold my own in 1v1s now against most Freeps and very often pull out a draw worst case when we're both obviously not DPS'ing the other down. Flies have made the difference between a one sided blow out win for the Freep and a tougher, longer fight for both of us.

If you're okay buying skills/traits then I highly recommend Enhanced Blight and Enhanced Flies now, especially at 35% off. The sale is still active right now, and should go through until Midnight EDT today. STack that on top of the new sale, 10-30% off depending upon cart size, already active, and it's a deal you really shouldn't pass up. You' should see a big difference in your Defiler game play.

There's my 2 cents. Happy Defiling.

Thanks, azpbxguy. I'll keep that in mind and maybe get them next time a sale is on.

Originally Posted by azpbxguy

FYI, Health Boost, Fast Lob, Enhanced Rez, Adv Fungal Spores, and Blessing of Darkness round out my traits.

Your traits seem to be a hybrid of group utility/solo traits. I'd suggest focus trait for your role, retrait when role changes. But in all cases I would swap out enhanced rez, it's just not necessary (except perhaps if you are in a small group with people without maps or something?) -- and with slot space so valuable now, it's the easy cut.

I would also swap out blessing of darkness, except for small group. It doesn't do anything for you solo and in raid usually you will have a freep on you dedicated to interrupting your skills. I'd go with armor boost instead, at least it's something that's always used to (maybe) help keep you alive long enough to get out one last heal.

If you are grouping, I'd say you must trait enhanced efflo. I think it's our best heal. Often you can efflo your group as a "set it and forget it" heal for 30 seconds while you turn your attention away to heal outside of group/debuff/etc.

Thanks for the suggestions Sniz, and you're spot on about my traits. I'm not one who normally messes with builds and changes traits out a lot, so I go for middle of the road usually unless I have reason to change it up. But I'm always open to suggestions on improving my game play and swapped things out as you suggested. I removed the Enhanced Rez and BoD and dropped in the Armour Boost and Enhanced Slime. I didn't go with Enhanced Eff as I just don't think the enhancements are more advantageous over the Enhanced Slime stats. I prefer 10% more healing and 10% less threat for my gameplay style.

I ran with this build for the last week or so but found that the Armour boost really wasn't making that big of a difference for me. But, I do have to agree that enhanced Rez is not as necessary as I thought it was. So I decided to put BoD back in for that slot. I know many consider it a waste of a slot and it doesn't do much, but I find that it's extremely useful for that last second save in the right circumstances. Part of my playing style and enjoyment with the game is frustrating the Freeps with saving a Creep and BoD is perfect for that, especially when I'm against newer Freeps who have not seen it before. Call it an indulgence. Frickin' laser beams, man!

But I did leave the Enhanced Slime in because I'm trying a new Corruptions build without any Health/Power/Damage trade-offs. I'm going with 2x Crit Protections, 2x Mastery Boost, and 1x each of Tactical and Physical Mitigation. Without the additional D4H or D4P, which help our outgoing healing, I needed the extra 10% healing from the Slime to increase my effectiveness in groups. Interestingly, with the Crit protection and additional mitigations slotted, it seems I am much more hardy than without them. Even with the lower morale. Could just be perception or imagination, but I am surprised at how long I last when surrounded by Freeps. I still go down obviously, but it takes far longer than I would think sometimes.

Thanks again for the suggestions. Pushed me to try something new I might not have.