Thread: Balance in the Moors come U6?

Audacity will reduce damage done by Freeps by 30%
Audacity will reduce damage done by Creeps by 30%

New jewelry will increase damage done by Freeps by 30%

The PvP God is crying...

Audacity wasn't really made to bring balance to the moors. It was created to slow down the combat speed of the moors, so you no longer go from full health to dead in a matter of seconds.

Originally Posted by Chris91

Audacity will reduce damage done by Freeps by 30%
Audacity will reduce damage done by Creeps by 30%

New jewelry will increase damage done by Freeps by 30%

The PvP God is crying...

So basically freep dps output wont change, while creep will get 30% nerf. Good update tur(d)bine, as usual..

30% sounds like an exaggeration, but I do agree that freeps will be able to get some of that damage back and creeps will not. Also it seems it will be easier for freeps to get initial audacity ranks compared to creeps..

I think turbine is trying but PvE is so embedded in the moors the only way to truely fix it is to ONLY allow pvp gear and jewellery for use in it.

IMO, nothing will change. Wargs and Weavers will be revamped.. some will like it, some will not. But on the whole... the 'moors will remain EXACTLY the way it currently is.

Though, Warg Packs will be extremely lethal and effective on Freep dominated servers... as apparently the devs intended them to be.

Originally Posted by KingOfBlackarrows

30% sounds like an exaggeration, but I do agree that freeps will be able to get some of that damage back and creeps will not. Also it seems it will be easier for freeps to get initial audacity ranks compared to creeps..

I think turbine is trying but PvE is so embedded in the moors the only way to truely fix it is to ONLY allow pvp gear and jewellery for use in it.

Most freeps will be unwilling to break set bonuses until they have the full set (i know i won't) so creeps will probably be running around with more audacity to begin with.

Of course there won't be balance. Balance in MMOs is an unachievable dream. That is not to say that we couldn't be a lot closer than we are at the moment though.

All I'm hoping for this Update is that Weavers will actually be a notable threat, Wargs will be more fun in general, CC will be less effective and that combat will slow down somewhat.

I don't know how many of those aims will be sated, but here's hoping. *thumbs up*

NIce buff to Rune Keepers dont you think. Should help a lot.

I played around in the moors a bit and from my initial impressions it looks like freep healing is op now. With the damage reduction from Audacity and what seems to be the same healing output as right now, creeps just don't have the dps to get through freep healing without overwhelming numbers. Will it take a while and a lot of pvp to get? Yes. Should it be possible at all? No.

Hmm, the interesting thing to me was I was someone who was keen to see combat slowed down for some actual fighting - i had even suggested this in previous posts and standing against the crowd, had suggested a 30% reduction in both freep and creep damage, and a further 20% reduction in freep tactical damage. I followed this with highlighting unless you also globaly nerfed healing it would not work as creeps would not be able to penetrate freep healing...

Et voila 30% reduction yay... however, no change to freep tactical, crucially no healing nerf, so now it simply will not work, its stuffed from square one. Yeah some changes here and there, wargs, spiders etc, reaver changes are kind of one step forward one step back - the reaver healing debuff will only apply to freep under half morale..so it will not be anywhere near enough.

So freeps will still out dps creeps, creeps will be in an seemingly impossible postion to counter the level of freep healing. RvR, the only semi-balanced situation remaining will now be a case of 4+ mini's in a freep raid, with a little supplemental healing and game over.

Hmm new poison dots, new reaver wounds... but as i understand it sos now cures these as well as lm's and hunters(burgs) so.. is it a case of >.< they have put creeps in a worse position than before (I know, I know, folks only a small minority of people were deluded to think freeps were not way ahead at the moment).

I won't know until I have tried the new environment, but at the moment am looking at the changes with glazed eyes thinking... less damage, same healing = side with lower burst worse off = even worse; could be the nail in the coffin for me and I've had a pretty high threshold.

ps. new players even worse off? gonna be great for getting new folks to stick to game >.<

they stuck the yearly knife in the burgs back. 50% less stun time is huge and spiders and wargs are now the anti burg classes along with defilers and WL. going to be rough and the star huggers will leave the class for good this time.

Originally Posted by Oldwiley

Hmm new poison dots, new reaver wounds... but as i understand it sos now cures these as well as lm's and hunters(burgs) so.. is it a case of >.< they have put creeps in a worse position than before (I know, I know, folks only a small minority of people were deluded to think freeps were not way ahead at the moment).

FYI...SoS will only remove 5 dots if you are wearing 5pcs of the "healing" set of moors gear...it is not an innate aspect of the skill. Either way, with often 2 to 2.5 the numbers of creeps on BW to Freeps and more creeps transfering weekly, things will be crowded out there and there will be more dots than heals.

The stats for all the mini armors are a nerf (compared to what most have currently) as we will be forced into wearing the audactiy garbage. So this should knock us down a notch from godmode to just plain OP.

Originally Posted by Winterfell

FYI...SoS will only remove 5 dots if you are wearing 5pcs of the "healing" set of moors gear...it is not an innate aspect of the skill. Either way, with often 2 to 2.5 the numbers of creeps on BW to Freeps and more creeps transfering weekly, things will be crowded out there and there will be more dots than heals.

The stats for all the mini armors are a nerf (compared to what most have currently) as we will be forced into wearing the audactiy garbage. So this should knock us down a notch from godmode to just plain OP.

Hmm implying the whole of my post indicated it looks like it will leave us worse off, rather than only the sos part...

As I said, will see what its like.. but the cumulative entirety of my post is what worries me, especially how much healing will now out spike creep dps ?

Originally Posted by ifreborn1

they stuck the yearly knife in the burgs back. 50% less stun time is huge and spiders and wargs are now the anti burg classes along with defilers and WL. going to be rough and the star huggers will leave the class for good this time.

Good. Burgs have ranged from being a good class right through to borderline godmode since the beginning afaik. About time they had a turn at the rough end of the trench.

Not liking the sound of freeps reclaiming alot/all of the 30% damage nerf though.

Minstrels are still easymoders .

I fought 1 vs 1 on BR .

His morale didn't go down , his power didnt go down .

My morale endured quite well in Flayer stance , until I ran out of power ...

BTW I have said it before , and I repeat it again : Shadow stance is a BAD JOKE .

Totally useless , don't even bother trying it .

Originally Posted by Chris91

Audacity will reduce damage done by Freeps by 30%
Audacity will reduce damage done by Creeps by 30%

New jewelry will increase damage done by Freeps by 30%

The PvP God is crying...

It was, is and will be about dev criticals. One side can do them with regularity, one cannot. Add new stats, create new jewelry, give strong mitigations.... In the end its like gambling, the higher % chance you have to crit the higher % chance you'll have at the new commedation.

Advantage freeps. Creeps will have to group to even things out as we do now, numbers mitigate the dev crit. I keep hearing about GW2 on creepside even with these changes pending.The changes are nice to read but I sense that in 2-3 months we will be exactly where we are now, it will just take 15 seconds instead of 5.

Originally Posted by Beleg-Of-Doriath

Not liking the sound of freeps reclaiming alot/all of the 30% damage nerf though.

That´s basicly what it is like

My RK on live:
7,4k Morale
8,2k Crit
21,4k Tact. Mastery

My RK after Update 6 with Ettenmoors Set:
7,5k Morale
7,8k Crit
26,4k Tact. Mastery

That´s a fricking 5000 additional Tactical Mastery

Originally Posted by Chris91

That´s basicly what it is like

My RK on live:
7,4k Morale
8,2k Crit
21,4k Tact. Mastery

My RK after Update 6 with Ettenmoors Set:
7,5k Morale
7,8k Crit
26,4k Tact. Mastery

That´s a fricking 5000 additional Tactical Mastery

Haha this just made me laugh. Sure it will take some time to get that full set but once acquired it will be open season.

Originally Posted by Chris91

That´s basicly what it is like

My RK on live:
7,4k Morale
8,2k Crit
21,4k Tact. Mastery

My RK after Update 6 with Ettenmoors Set:
7,5k Morale
7,8k Crit
26,4k Tact. Mastery

That´s a fricking 5000 additional Tactical Mastery

Originally Posted by apb8808

Haha this just made me laugh. Sure it will take some time to get that full set but once acquired it will be open season.

I'd be more interested to see the Physical/Tactical Mastery increases from freeps that are raid-geared.

If there's a 30% increase in Mastery for those at the top end, that's a big deal. Heck, that'll trivialize a couple of the Orthanc challenges. (As for how it'll affect PvP, well... I don't know - it's not like the top freeps were losing to creeps anyway.)

Originally Posted by Lestache

I'd be more interested to see the Physical/Tactical Mastery increases from freeps that are raid-geared.

If there's a 30% increase in Mastery for those at the top end, that's a big deal. Heck, that'll trivialize a couple of the Orthanc challenges. (As for how it'll affect PvP, well... I don't know - it's not like the top freeps were losing to creeps anyway.)

You seem to be missing the fact that Audacity will only have any effect in PvMP. PvE-side of GV will be entirely unaffected as far as I've understood it.

Originally Posted by Spordo

You seem to be missing the fact that Audacity will only have any effect in PvMP. PvE-side of GV will be entirely unaffected as far as I've understood it.

The above posts gave me the impression that freep DPS will be going up thanks to other sources (jewelry especially), and it's my understanding that Audacity won't increase outgoing damage (even in the Moors). I'm well aware that Audacity is a Moors-only thing.

Originally Posted by Lestache

I'd be more interested to see the Physical/Tactical Mastery increases from freeps that are raid-geared.

If there's a 30% increase in Mastery for those at the top end, that's a big deal. Heck, that'll trivialize a couple of the Orthanc challenges. (As for how it'll affect PvP, well... I don't know - it's not like the top freeps were losing to creeps anyway.)

Raid geared the effect is the same

In Raids I´m somewhere between 26k and 27k Tactical Mastery on live, after the Update I´ll definitly be above 30k and still have more Morale

Originally Posted by Chris91

Raid geared the effect is the same

In Raids I´m somewhere between 26k and 27k Tactical Mastery on live, after the Update I´ll definitly be above 30k and still have more Morale

Sweet - thanks for letting me know.

(BTW, the new Martial Training is ridiculous - I copied over my Champ (main) and my RK (alt) and my RK has more morale now. And I don't use a glass cannon Champ build.)

Originally Posted by Rhedry

IMO, nothing will change. Wargs and Weavers will be revamped.. some will like it, some will not. But on the whole... the 'moors will remain EXACTLY the way it currently is.

Though, Warg Packs will be extremely lethal and effective on Freep dominated servers... as apparently the devs intended them to be.

The Moors will change a lot. Healing will be way more effective than anything else can ever dream to be. There will be stalemates.

Freep dmg overall will go up b/c of better available jewellery and the proliferation of First Ages. Won't be 30%, but yeah.

Freep heals are also MUCH MUCH MUCH MUCH MUCH MUCH MUCH better. So, yeah. MUCH.

Originally Posted by PhantomPunkk

The Moors will change a lot. Healing will be way more effective than anything else can ever dream to be. There will be stalemates.

Freep dmg overall will go up b/c of better available jewellery and the proliferation of First Ages. Won't be 30%, but yeah.

Freep heals are also MUCH MUCH MUCH MUCH MUCH MUCH MUCH better. So, yeah. MUCH.

One thing that I haven't seen addressed here is the ICPR of creeps.

Has the ICPR recieved a signficiant boost on BR?

If not with sustained fighting creeps are going to become significantly weaker. The ICPR of freep healers and dps classes far currently outweighs those on creep side. The worst case for this is reavers (with wargs not too much better off), if fights are going to be going on twice as long for the same number of kills (ignoring the effect of the suggestion of imbalanced healing) then the creep DPS is likely to be completely out of power long before the fight is over.

Originally Posted by Apocatequil

One thing that I haven't seen addressed here is the ICPR of creeps.

Has the ICPR recieved a signficiant boost on BR?

If not with sustained fighting creeps are going to become significantly weaker. The ICPR of freep healers and dps classes far currently outweighs those on creep side. The worst case for this is reavers (with wargs not too much better off), if fights are going to be going on twice as long for the same number of kills (ignoring the effect of the suggestion of imbalanced healing) then the creep DPS is likely to be completely out of power long before the fight is over.

Audacity also decreases power cost.

Originally Posted by ifreborn1

they stuck the yearly knife in the burgs back. 50% less stun time is huge and spiders and wargs are now the anti burg classes along with defilers and WL. going to be rough and the star huggers will leave the class for good this time.

You're actually complaining that burgs got a tiny, tiny nerf to cc? Burgs could lose half their skills and still be fine. Easymoder is easymoder.

Originally Posted by Winterfell

Either way, with often 2 to 2.5 the numbers of creeps on BW to Freeps and more creeps transfering weekly, things will be crowded out there and there will be more dots than heals.

creeps still tend to be outnumbered quite often while never getting the on buff cuz of so many "creeps" who sit in grams just reading/trolling ooc while awaiting cooldowns on freeps. though I think come u6 it will probably be more like 5-1 creep advantage when all the ez moders(the people who ALWAYS flip to the side with the numbers and tend to always roll whatever class is the new FOTM) flip to wargs and weavers reducing freep numbers and bloating creep numbers.

Originally Posted by Lestache

The above posts gave me the impression that freep DPS will be going up thanks to other sources (jewelry especially)

don't forget 1st ages being MUCH easier to get so more freeps will have 1st ages then they have now.

Originally Posted by Daec

Audacity also decreases power cost.

Last I heard, this part wasn't working properly.

Originally Posted by Arvaen

Last I heard, this part wasn't working properly.

Last night wasn't working .

At least not on my warg .

Originally Posted by thisisanewname

creeps still tend to be outnumbered quite often while never getting the on buff cuz of so many "creeps" who sit in grams just reading/trolling ooc while awaiting cooldowns on freeps. though I think come u6 it will probably be more like 5-1 creep advantage when all the ez moders(the people who ALWAYS flip to the side with the numbers and tend to always roll whatever class is the new FOTM) flip to wargs and weavers reducing freep numbers and bloating creep numbers.

don't forget 1st ages being MUCH easier to get so more freeps will have 1st ages then they have now.

1st ages popping up all over already due to lootbox farming madness, cant wait till everyone has one.

I don't understand why people think that spiders and wargs will be incredible and everyone is going to want to play one. Sure some nice changes, but how will it fare against the new gear that freeps will have available? Could be more of the same as right now, I for one am still apprehensive about it. Every time they take creeps forward one step, they take freeps forward 3.

I still propose creep aduacity reduce incoming crit damage since its the stupid high crits from freeps that makes combat 2 sec since creeps unless they zerg a freep won't be killing them in 2sec... its 1 sided the combat pace creeps damage is pretty fair its freep dps thats to far in the deep end and its not the normal damage its the crit damage that goes to 10k followed by 2k 2k and 1.5k.

Originally Posted by Notaforumguy007

I still propose creep aduacity reduce incoming crit damage since its the stupid high crits from freeps that makes combat 2 sec since creeps unless they zerg a freep won't be killing them in 2sec... its 1 sided the combat pace creeps damage is pretty fair its freep dps thats to far in the deep end and its not the normal damage its the crit damage that goes to 10k followed by 2k 2k and 1.5k.

This couldn't be done for the same reason that it couldn't be done in the warden update (Orion stated that they wanted to do exactly this, but weren't able due to game engine limitations).

Originally Posted by apb8808

1st ages popping up all over already due to lootbox farming madness, cant wait till everyone has one.

I don't understand why people think that spiders and wargs will be incredible and everyone is going to want to play one. Sure some nice changes, but how will it fare against the new gear that freeps will have available? Could be more of the same as right now, I for one am still apprehensive about it. Every time they take creeps forward one step, they take freeps forward 3.

well there's already quite a few 1st ages on my server even before they started dropping in lootboxes. my kin's raid team has 10/12 people with them(hopefully 11/12 after tommorow) just from orthanc with several weeks getting 2 or 3 from the 2 easy bosses so its not THAT hard to get them now but when the drop rate increase even more I doubt that many of the real pvp freeps won't have 1st ages.

the whole idea of people flipping to wargs/spiders comes from 5 years of watching people flip to whatever side gets buffed each book plays that class till a new class is buffed then switches to that class.its been going on on bw since day 1 so why would it change now?

Originally Posted by thisisanewname

well there's already quite a few 1st ages on my server even before they started dropping in lootboxes. my kin's raid team has 10/12 people with them(hopefully 11/12 after tommorow) just from orthanc with several weeks getting 2 or 3 from the 2 easy bosses so its not THAT hard to get them now but when the drop rate increase even more I doubt that many of the real pvp freeps won't have 1st ages.

the whole idea of people flipping to wargs/spiders comes from 5 years of watching people flip to whatever side gets buffed each book plays that class till a new class is buffed then switches to that class.its been going on on bw since day 1 so why would it change now?

Because while wargs and spiders got very nice buffs, minstrels are still pretty much godmode.

So anyone who would flip to a warg/spider will just stay on their minstrel.

The only way the moors could be balanced would be if all of creepside leave for GW2. With a 'no creeps left to fight' situation Turbine would be forced to offer PvP with freep v's freep, thus finally achieving balance. ^^

Although the above statement is 'tongue in cheek', if Turbine continue to treat paying creep customers as a second class they really don't deserve to have those customers.

Originally Posted by Chris91

That´s basicly what it is like

My RK on live:
7,4k Morale
8,2k Crit
21,4k Tact. Mastery

My RK after Update 6 with Ettenmoors Set:
7,5k Morale
7,8k Crit
26,4k Tact. Mastery

That´s a fricking 5000 additional Tactical Mastery

New LM sets are terrible stat-wise. Scarcely any will, where most RK pieces have 101 will.

Perhaps the new sets are an upgrade for you... going down to 26.4k TM for me would be an ~3k nerf.

Sad, Turbine.

Originally Posted by k3nn3th

New LM sets are terrible stat-wise. Scarcely any will, where most RK pieces have 101 will.

Perhaps the new sets are an upgrade for you... going down to 26.4k TM for me would be an ~3k nerf.

Sad, Turbine.

Mini's are also nerfed by their set stat's and bonuses. This is a pre-nerf to the roflstomp that Orion is about to put on those who are not expecting it. Mini's are being reeled in slowly.

God the Mini armour sucks...

The sets look good as cosmetics at least