Thread: skirmishing selfish recruiting in global

Something i've seen alot of recently is people recruiting only classes that wont roll against them in skirms. I understand you need a balnced group 1 or 2 tanks, cappies and a a couple of healers ofc. None of the skirmishes are so difficult(except maybe IcyC) that you have to be selective of DPS. So then excluding burgs and hunters or tactical classes so that no one will roll against you for that oh so precious shiny, goes against the grain of a social game imo. By all means /cry if you loose a roll, don't cry in RL. I personnaly will add these people to my ignore list and wont run with them. Maybe people just haven't given it much thought but it really saddens me to see this happening. I'll stick to kin runs if need, but i hope i'm not alone in my dislike of this practice.

I don't see the problem here. Turbine made it so that you'd struggle to get what you're after. They pushed us into doing this. So if someone makes a raid to get themselves that item that they've been after for months but keep losing/don't see drop, that's completely fine.

Don't like it? Make your own raid.

Noticed the same thing, hence the topic on General discussion. Yes, I play one of the unwanted classes, but I wouldn't like this kind of behaviour even if I was a champ or a LM who would be wanted.

Unfortunately it's a byproduct of shoddy game design, where loot is so rare and wanted that people will turn to desperate measures. I would personally do away with campaign-specific loot and have a barter guy where you could have the items you want with seals or medallions. This would make sure that everyone would be welcome for skirmish raids, people would run every one of them AND! people would want to join even if the specific raid wouldn't have any good drops for your class in its loot table.

Originally Posted by Loun

Noticed the same thing, hence the topic on General discussion. Yes, I play one of the unwanted classes, but I wouldn't like this kind of behaviour even if I was a champ or a LM who would be wanted.

Unfortunately it's a byproduct of shoddy game design, where loot is so rare and wanted that people will turn to desperate measures. I would personally do away with campaign-specific loot and have a barter guy where you could have the items you want with seals or medallions. This would make sure that everyone would be welcome for skirmish raids, people would run every one of them AND! people would want to join even if the specific raid wouldn't have any good drops for your class in its loot table.

Exactly. But Turbine wouldn't have the wit to implement this idea, so we're stuck with having to be selfish to get anything done.

It's not selfish, some people just have higher standards for their characters and after a while it becomes essential if you want your character to be the best it can be.

I need 2 more pieces of jewellery on my burglar and realistically the only way to get them is to once a week, design a group that almost guarantees that if the desired item drops that I, or a friend/kin member win it.

I have been grinding these items ever since I hit 75 and planned which jewellery items I needed to be the best I can be and to this date I am still not finished after doing all I can each week to improve.

So you can come on these forums and claim it's selfish or greedy, but the only thing that says to me is that you either haven't reached the point yet where it becomes useless to include competition or you don't have the same drive for success as me and many others who have no choice other than resort to this.

Rant over.

I agree with alot of the current comments, if they take the time to make the raid then they can have the reward at the end, but some peices can be used for alot of different classes, who says the 122 agility bit has to always go to the burg/hunter?

Theres 2 ways to beat this kind of thing, never fellow/raid with them, if alot do it (which doesnt always happen) they will soon be stuck, never invite them to your runs, if you make any.

Join a large kinship where you can kin run only the instance/raid, that way it fair to all.

It's a choice of ways i guess, for me global is a social thing, and skirms opened that up alot more. You want the best, go for it, but i wont run with people who would lead a raid, and then say no one else roll on this but me, 'cus your class is not compatible (by blatant design), self assign. I think then that globall has split to two communities those that do and those that wont ever. I'm relieved that i have not seen anyone in my kin practising this. It's not ninjaring but it's in the spirit of it.
Happy gaming.

I can understand what you're saying, but I wouldn't be bothered by it. If you would like to play some specific skirmish, you organise your own. If others choose not to take another Hunter or Champion just because they can get that jewellery piece (if it drops) themselfs, it is their choice. And if you do not like that, it is not anyone's problem but your own, and you should simply organise your own runs or simply keep it into the kin.

With all due respect Venguard i disagree that it's nobodies problem but my own. I suspect that many people who join these raids are unaware that they are lowering there weekly chance of getting items they want in order to maximise the chance of the raid leader getting his. Something that these raid leaders don't care about. I seek only to make people aware of this and will continue to do so. If people were aware of it, then it would puzzle me greatly why anyone would join...for any roll in the group.

Originally Posted by Ezekiel90

With all due respect Venguard i disagree that it's nobodies problem but my own. I suspect that many people who join these raids are unaware that they are lowering there weekly chance of getting items they want in order to maximise the chance of the raid leader getting his. Something that these raid leaders don't care about. I seek only to make people aware of this and will continue to do so. If people were aware of it, then it would puzzle me greatly why anyone would join...for any roll in the group.

They join because they can't be bothered to organise one of their own. If it means rolling against more people because the leader has made a raid that will allow him to be one of the few eligible for an item, who are they to complain? It isn't their raid. If they want to make a raid themselves, they can do so, but if they refuse to join a raid because they're going to have to roll against more people for loot, they're pretty much just after the same thing as the raid leader: higher chances of winning an item.

It would be hypocritical to condemn a raid leader for inviting certain classes for better luck on rolls because you would have worse luck.

Condemn is a strong word Dorothir. I prefere to just ignore. It's nothing personal just means i can avoid people who's play style is not inline with mine.
As for : It would be hypocritical to condemn a raid leader for inviting certain classes for better luck on rolls because you would have worse luck.
I can't see your point i'm affraid. In all 3 years of playing this game i never ever heard of raid leaders claiming to have a higher priority for rolling rights simply because they take the time to lead. Therefore to assume they have or believe that because they are so hardcore a player they should have such rights is a sad day for the game.
There has always been a random element to how many people you will roll against. Once people are trying to distort that random element in there favour at the expense of other's, then they should not be surprised to find themselves shunned by others. I see no hypocrisy in that, i do not mistake self interest for selfishness. One can be served by others, one at the expense of others, there is a difference.

I don't get it what's the problem here? Leader is always right. If you don't like it, move over.
I will gladly be the bad/whatever guy if it brings me the damn Band of Codex Archivist that is supposed to drop in Attack at Dawn which I haven't seen yet.

Oh I also just remembered how one ######## hunter rolled on the Talon against me on my captain. Yes, some items are NOT supposed to go to specific classes.

Originally Posted by Ezekiel90

Condemn is a strong word Dorothir. I prefere to just ignore. It's nothing personal just means i can avoid people who's play style is not inline with mine.
As for : It would be hypocritical to condemn a raid leader for inviting certain classes for better luck on rolls because you would have worse luck.
I can't see your point i'm affraid. In all 3 years of playing this game i never ever heard of raid leaders claiming to have a higher priority for rolling rights simply because they take the time to lead. Therefore to assume they have or believe that because they are so hardcore a player they should have such rights is a sad day for the game.
There has always been a random element to how many people you will roll against. Once people are trying to distort that random element in there favour at the expense of other's, then they should not be surprised to find themselves shunned by others. I see no hypocrisy in that, i do not mistake self interest for selfishness. One can be served by others, one at the expense of others, there is a difference.

The point is, you say you avoid people that make raids with a greater chance of themselves winning a roll. You do this because it means other people have less of a chance. So what you're basically saying is you want a greater chance of winning a roll, just like that leader did. So refusing to join a group because they have lots of your class is just the same as making a group that have less of your class. The only difference is, you didn't make the raid.

Originally Posted by The-Walrus

Oh I also just remembered how one ######## hunter rolled on the Talon against me on my captain. Yes, some items are NOT supposed to go to specific classes.

As a skraid leader, I try to make sure that doesn't happen. I'd ensure as best I could that heavies and wardens rolled and would mock agi or will classes severely for rolling on it. Similarly, if shadowstalker's stud (122 agi, 61 vit) dropped in pony, I might well not allow non-agi classes to roll on it until I was clear that all the burgs and hunters in the raid didn't want it.

Master Looter can sometimes preserve sanity.

It's also quite fun being a warden in a raid when some might/vit medium armour drops

Originally Posted by Aedfrith

It's also quite fun being a warden in a raid when some might/vit medium armour drops

This is the reason I hate wardens. Only one class can wear their gear and they've got to be some of the least played classes, yet their gear is everywhere!

If wardens didn't exist, I wouldn't keep having week cooldowns wasted on warden pieces!

Well The -walrus, my commiserations on having a hunter roll on the talon. The leader should not have given the talon to a hunter. It's clearly a tank, champ, captain peice and thats what master loot is for i agree. And yet you say the leader is always right which is odd.
Anyhows that was not the point of the thread. I think the point was simply to ask certain raid leaders to show some consideration to other members of the global community they are seaking to fellow with. Even wardens
Heaven forbid everyone starts leading them, today a noob accidently took all the loot for himself, some nice hunter/burg gear for an LM:P

The problem is that in case of leader doing the (totally obviously!) right thing, he would get flamed to hell by most of the group (clueless in most cases) yelling #### about abuse of power and fair rolls. I can imagine why most don't do it - or maybe they just don't care... I know I wouldn't do it, but then again I am burned out trying to lead idiots who can't even follow the rat and react on such simple command as "stop" :P

Although i strong disagree with preventing people from playing the game for enjoyment, I have more recently become tempted to not recruit other guards/wardens unless really needed.

The reason for this is after running 15+ skirms a week on my guard for several months and seeing one item drop (talon) (which i lost to a wardern) It's just becoming a waste of time/frustrating every week.

The fact also that the skirms can only be run 1 time a week makes it even more annoying.

This is ruining any hope i have of improving my character, I am close to going over to another MMORPG which has recently gone freetoplay.

Please Turbine increase the good stuff that drops from skirms, the number of times i have seen the healers necklace is beyond a joke, increase the drops to 3-4 decent items for 12 people please, and remove the old junk that nobody wants.

Well, I don't know if it helps anyone, but here's my opinion, and my personal rule on raiding in all MMOs (except for DDO):
"While joining PUG raid, there is about 0% chance to get loot I want/need, so join only if I like to run said run for fun/vendor junk"

Originally Posted by Dorothir

They join because they can't be bothered to organise one of their own.

Some people join because they simply enjoy playing the game in the company of others.

Some of you want to be the best of the best of the best. I get that. Others of us just want to have a laugh.

Your attitude to players who don't think exactly like you is imo quite poor. If a person groups with you, for whatever reason, you should respect them and enjoy their company and their assistance, not see them as apathetic. Grrr

Rant over. Sorry about that.

Originally Posted by BeanCountingMan

Some people join because they simply enjoy playing the game in the company of others.

Some of you want to be the best of the best of the best. I get that. Others of us just want to have a laugh.

Your attitude to players who don't think exactly like you is imo quite poor. If a person groups with you, for whatever reason, you should respect them and enjoy their company and their assistance, not see them as apathetic. Grrr

Rant over. Sorry about that.

Well they are apathetic. If they wanted to be leader, they should make their own.