Thread: Best DPS Rotation

I trait 5 red and then appraising eye and opportunist. Prior to a fight in PVE (I only do PVE) I usually go stealth, throw on reveal weakness and then after the first big hit out of stealth using surprise strike I put on addle and debuff with my choice of debuffs. Then I go right into my crit chain dps and subtle stab. Is this where you usually stay then and use flashing blades with AIM and LIE when it is off cooldown and then follow with addle for the animation reduction? Just curious to know what everyone uses to maximize my dps. Thanks. Just looking for ideas and/or suggestions to try out.

Coupla questions ..
Your level?
Solo or grouping?
What kinda mobs? Elite & above? Or Signature & below?
Prolonged DPS? Or just flat out burst?

I do seem some steps missing that I typically would use .. but I am in no way an expert on running in Red.

Mob > 20 moral

RW > CA from stealth > CD > FA > BA > SS > DES > ET or FB > Adle > Aim > Suprise strike

Originally Posted by ifreborn1

Mob > 20 moral

RW > CA from stealth > CD > FA > BA > SS > DES > ET or FB > Adle > Aim > Suprise strike

For those not knowing the short terms:

Reveal Weakness
Cunning Attack
Counter Defense
Feint Attack
Burglar's Advantage
Subtle Stab
Double Edged Strike
Exposed Throat or Flashing Blades
etc.,

I'd say that's your basic rotation for grouping and solo.
Personally, solo, after my opener I Disarm or Dust in the Eyes .. then Startling Twist .. then from behind, Counter Defense all the way down the rest of that rotation ..
Pretty much.
I run Gambler, so I like to get Lucky/Gambler's Strike in there.

I trait 5QK/2MM when solely DPS.

Opener should be from stealth and in position.
I suggest RW > Aim > Location > CA

With a First Age dagger (and around 1700 Agi, 23K-ish O) this will do around 8K on a Galtrev dummy and doesn't have the all-at-once damage of Surprise Strike which helps a little to not pull aggro right away (don't want dummy aggro! ).

Then go right into Feint Attack > BA > DES > FB > Addle > Stab > CD
if the crit chain re-opens (almost always does) I can usually get in another 1 or 2 crit skills before finishing with Surprise Strike.

The only difference being I substitute CA instead of Surprise Strike in the rest of my rotations while FA is active - especially if Aim is up. I find Aim + CA + (non-stealth) Surprise > Aim + Surprise + (non-stealth) CA over the long haul and that's with the bleed legacy at only +8% and Surprise from Stealth maxed. I do have the auto-dev bonus. Plus the fact that CA's stack based on proc-ing the different ones, it seems a no-brainer to me to use it as the FA closer. Plus with Aim, the bleed is 30s instead of 20s.

While FA is cd-ing (about another 5s or so), I'll toss a regular CA > Provoke > CD and then Feint Again. Repeat as above. Basically when the FA buff is not active and is cooling down, I use all my attacks that would normally remove the FA buff as well as make sure Stab is pretty much always on cd. That is, unless my crit chain opens and I'm worried it will close before I can re-pop FA in which case I'll throw a non-FA BA in there to keep the crit chain open until FA is up.

YMMV of course.

I highly recommend installing the Combat Analysis plugin, and finding somewhere to practice your rotations with it up so you can try different orders and see the difference as a real-time number.

Addle is great for cutting off the long Flashing Blades induction, but I'm not sure if it's programmed the same way as Champ's Clobber. There's a post on their forum timing it all down to the millisecond, and it doesn't actually increase DPS in any way - because it doesn't shorten the attack duration of the skill you're interrupting.

Originally Posted by Southpa

..Then go right into Feint Attack > BA > DES > FB > Addle > Stab > CD

Originally Posted by Southpa

While FA is cd-ing (about another 5s or so), I'll toss a regular CA > Provoke > CD and then Feint Again.

Assuming CD is Counter Defense .. why apply it so late in the rotation (Non-Dummy rotation)?

Originally Posted by Bootstwaddle

Assuming CD is Counter Defense .. why apply it so late in the rotation (Non-Dummy rotation)?

I guess I do insert it before FA. It's such routine, I have to really think hard about it before I describe it in text.

If it's something I don't explicitly need to debuff, then depending on mob morale, open with Sup. Strike or Cunning Attack, then CD, crit chain w/ Aimed FB, addle, Subtle Stab, BA. etc et al. I'm notorious for treating my tricks as melee attacks.. so if I'm waiting on the next step of the crit chain to cooldown.. I'll happily spam CD/Disable.

This would be a real good thread to start posting your Combat Analysis results to see how you're stacking up to everyone else.. it'll probably also give Everborn some ammunition to derail and troll another thread in the future.

Currently working on getting my Gleaming Silver Web at the L74/75 spiders between LC and HH, averaging about 1250-1300 dps over 11 seconds, topping out at 1500 dps with some Devs. Still missing Chest/Boots of the Isen set, as well as a second Ring of Conflict Resolution, Moria Stone Necklace and Lucky Stone for my ideal build.

On dummy - stealth - reveal weakness - surprise strike - counter def - feint attack - burglar's advantage - subtle stab - double edged attack - aim - disable - counter def - flashing blades - addle

Originally Posted by jakeprecision123

On dummy - stealth - reveal weakness - surprise strike - counter def - feint attack - burglar's advantage - subtle stab - double edged attack - aim - disable - counter def - flashing blades - addle

It makes sense untill you go disable - counter def -
Why Disable if you are going to replace it with Counter Def right away?
If just for the damage, wouldn't Provoke be better?
Why is Counter Defense there anyway, because it seems the first one after SS is still active.

Shouldn't LiE be in there somewhere?

Originally Posted by Jarnos

Why is Counter Defense there anyway, because it seems the first one after SS is still active.

The point of that rotation is, thatyou can devaste on both tricks and the autohits between them before aim is used for fb, but it's not worth it. You lose too much time rotating through the tricks.
best is aim -> counter defense -> fb
Another trick before fb is just not worth it dps-wise.

Originally Posted by sdf-blarelius

The point of that rotation is, thatyou can devaste on both tricks and the autohits between them before aim is used for fb, but it's not worth it. You lose too much time rotating through the tricks.
best is aim -> counter defense -> fb
Another trick before fb is just not worth it dps-wise.

How does AIM increase the chance of the tricks and auto attacks Devestating?
Am I missing something with Aim?

Forgive me I'm kind of a new/low-level burg

How important/useful is addle against pve mobs?

Originally Posted by sdf-blarelius

The point of that rotation is, thatyou can devaste on both tricks and the autohits between them before aim is used for fb, but it's not worth it. You lose too much time rotating through the tricks.
best is aim -> counter defense -> fb

I assume there must be a mechanic at work here that I am unaware of?

Unless CD procs a dev without consuming Aim, I don't see how this is best unless you get lucky and Dev with no-Aim FB.

In my own dummy parsing, FB has never been able to beat either Surprise Stirke or Cunning Attack when used with auto-dev Aim. Ever.

Also regarding Addle, I believe when the issue with Clobber not actually saving time was discussed, it was compared to Addle and the general consensus was that Addle did not act like Clobber. There is no hidden animation time with Addle. If you play both classes, you can see this just by doing it - you don't even need to time it out to realize it. Burgs can chain skills like no other...

So do you all trait cunning attack? I use cunning attack in my rotation, but it is not my opening attack. I see a few with CA as their opening attack. Is CA better to use than Suprise strike? Typically I am hitting with AIM and LIE out of stealth with RW about 5500 in foundry on the trash mobs. Does CA do more overall damage? Does it need to be traited? Last time I looked I wasn't overally impressed with the extra bleed bonus from CA but maybe I need to look at it again. Thoughts?

Originally Posted by Anier

So do you all trait cunning attack? I use cunning attack in my rotation, but it is not my opening attack. I see a few with CA as their opening attack. Is CA better to use than Suprise strike? Typically I am hitting with AIM and LIE out of stealth with RW about 5500 in foundry on the trash mobs. Does CA do more overall damage? Does it need to be traited? Last time I looked I wasn't overally impressed with the extra bleed bonus from CA but maybe I need to look at it again. Thoughts?

For me, Cunning Attack gives about 33% more damage than Surprise over the full course of the bleed with Stealth+RW+Aim+LiE (auto-dev)

I do trait CA/bleed damage always.

Originally Posted by Southpa

I assume there must be a mechanic at work here that I am unaware of?

Unless CD procs a dev without consuming Aim, I don't see how this is best unless you get lucky and Dev with no-Aim FB.

In my own dummy parsing, FB has never been able to beat either Surprise Stirke or Cunning Attack when used with auto-dev Aim. Ever.

Just to clarify: obviously ppl are assuming you are wearing the QK-armour set from Orthanc that grants a devastate with aim.

The way it works currently is that aim is no longer consumed by using tricks, so every time you hit CD or disable with the Orthanc-Aim active you get a dev crit. (Imagine if they hadn't fixed the addle-bug... That'd just be wrong...)

As for the FB/SS/CA debate I think it's mostly situational.
The advantage of the FB move is that it's very fast and packs an instant punch though it might do less damage than SS or CA overall. The FB combo really shines in EM.

SS is really nice and can be fast enough if you use aim/LIE straight after a fast skill (trick, BA, DES, twist...) or an immediate skill (like addle or tng). Does more damage than FB - perfect for when oathies is on the target.

CA does more overall damage than SS if specced for both, but ofc it's not burst damage but it's still ideal for longer boss fights where you want to keep your dps as high as possible. It doesn't rely too much on positional bonuses either.

All three of these is ofc assuming you have the feint attack buff active when you hit the skill - not much point in using the non-stealthed version of CA imo...

Originally Posted by Dunskap

Forgive me I'm kind of a new/low-level burg

How important/useful is addle against pve mobs?

Addle has two functions: it works as a debuff that both interrupts inductions and increases the target's induction time, and much more importantly it is used to by-pass skill animations. At lvl 41 you can equip the legendary trait flashing blades that does some nice damage but has one of the longest animations in game. Addle is perfect there cause it removes the long animation-delay you get after using it.

My issue is I have not beaten saurman yet so I only have 4 pieces. I would love to get my 5th/6th pieces on my burg. That auto dev would be cool. Anyone on arkenstone need a burg for saurman?

Originally Posted by Anier

So do you all trait cunning attack? I use cunning attack in my rotation, but it is not my opening attack. I see a few with CA as their opening attack. Is CA better to use than Suprise strike? Typically I am hitting with AIM and LIE out of stealth with RW about 5500 in foundry on the trash mobs. Does CA do more overall damage? Does it need to be traited? Last time I looked I wasn't overally impressed with the extra bleed bonus from CA but maybe I need to look at it again. Thoughts?

Here's what I got untraited (that is, traited 5TG/2MM -- no red traits) with no legendary legacies that specifically improve either attack. I used my favorite punching bags for testing DPS tricks, the giants in Enedwaith. (If I toy with them, they can last the full 30 seconds of the CA bleed.)

RW + Stealth + Crit SS = 1663 total damage
RW + Stealth + Crit CA = 2847 (642 base + 2205 bleed)

The bleed is 147 every 2 seconds for 30 seconds.

Obviously, your mileage may vary. Traits and legacies will tilt this balance dramatically. In the most general case, however, it appears that if a fight lasts less than 15 seconds, it's better to open with SS. If it lasts more than 15 seconds, it's better to open with CA.

Originally Posted by jakeprecision123

On dummy - stealth - reveal weakness - surprise strike - counter def - feint attack - burglar's advantage - subtle stab - double edged attack - aim - disable - counter def - flashing blades - addle

From there?
I mean you need to rework this chain and place FA before SS or you wast his bonus...

Can you post your rotation after the opening one?

Originally Posted by Arlecchino79

From there?
I mean you need to rework this chain and place FA before SS or you wast his bonus...

Can you post your rotation after the opening one?

repeat

and it improves your DPS quite a lot to hit SS short before the FA-Bonus expires...

Sadly, the only way to play a PvE Burglar well now is to get the QK PvP set.


Aim (before skills reset) > Stealth > SS > Addle > RW > receive CtG from Minstrel (2s into fight) > SS again > IFA > CD > crit chain + subtle stab > Aim > SS > Addle/HIPS (aggro reset + another From Stealth skill usage) > R&A > Aim > CA > SS > ... IFA + Crit Chain + subtle stab spam (with SS every ~10s).


This will get you the full 20% dev buff up in around 15s, and you can almost match Champion CBR DPS in a sustained single target fight.

Personally I macro in the PvP set for Surprise Strike only. This parse, with a far from perfect rotation, is with 4 Burglars + 2 Oathbreakers + Blade Brother:

Best DPS rotation(s)? Watch these videos and you will see...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eZzc1UXuPCM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MisaWcmtuDw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d5cJK3wauKM

Two of them are pre-RoI, but it's pretty much the same. Learn how to use addle properly and you will crush everything. And no, I'm not referring to flashing blades + addle, addle is much more than that.

It's kinda silly that you need to grind out PvP gear to be among the top of your class in PvE now. With 3 Burgs on FF T2CM I've been ranging between 3.8-4k DPS. Peaks of near 4.5k. It's a consistent thing. I actually hit higher numbers on Shadow CM (first minute, before I have to move around), for whatever reason, and we only take 2 Burgs in there at the best of times. First time I got the set I hit 4k DPS on Shadow with 2 Burgs that weekend, and I was far from flawless.

I think the notion of a 'perfect' skill rotation just begs to be picked apart. I have a set rotation in mind when I DPS, obviously, as all good DPSers should do, but being able to naturally have a flow to your DPS is something I hold very important. It's not set in stone for me. Skill priority and combinations are something I focus on, rather than a long detailed 'perfect' rotation.

Few caps of a few decent parses from FF T2CM:



We spent a good few hours in there, came very close, but a linkdead ruined our last very close run, and ended the night. Had aggro problems for about an hour, too, until we changed things up. >_> Anyway, Anthem of War and Prowess are up 90-95% of the time, War Cry is up 95-100% of the time, had Blade-Brother. Call to Greatness is used later than I'd like (IE 30 second mark-ish), only double Oathies if we get the Bubble, otherwise we save it. We're taking 3 Burgs in there.

Pretty certain I have things to learn from our German Burg friends. =P

P.S. I don't macro. To each their own. Something about having the game played for me that doesn't sit right with me. I'll either swap things in myself, or not at all.

4k is quite impressive I must say. Though I have come close I have not yet exceeded 4k. It may be that holding off on CtG for the +15% damage during OBs actually works out quite a bit better than wasting it at the start without OBs and while applying RW/CD just for the sake of getting the buff up sooner.

Originally Posted by canyouaddcolour

P.S. I don't macro. To each their own. Something about having the game played for me that doesn't sit right with me. I'll either swap things in myself, or not at all.

You also managed to do it without acting like a self-righteous tool. Some people are incapable of that, unfortunately.

Originally Posted by Evendale

You also managed to do it without acting like a self-righteous tool. Some people are incapable of that, unfortunately.

Made me laugh. Well played.

I made a video a while back when I first got the Unseen ettenmoors set, if you view it in the highest quality you can see an example of a good DPS rotation.

All burglars should have the Unseen set imo, it's superior to the QK ToO set (After 20seconds of use). With this set I no longer use Cunning Attack (CA) because it's best to fire off Surprise Strike to activate the +5% dev buff immediately, due to this I have removed CA from my rotation and now use Provoke (Traited), this also helps with threat management in ToO as high DPS burglars seem to take aggro a hell of a lot now - Another way to combat this is to use Double Hide in plain sight (HIPS).

This of course is a solo parse with no buffs applied at all.


Link:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WRXntJy0KR0

Using macro is out of discussion... i want play the game. Tnx for all you're answer, actually i don't have already the EM set, i'll take it for sure.

With the ToO set and a SA i was able to reach 1400 dps on training dummy... i'm far away to be a good dps yet. ^^
(also if i find a very good rotation)

Err......

How fun does the game get when all you do in every fight is pre set?
I mean press button 1-3-3-2-5-1 repeat till mob dies.....

Yes i know it is a way to max out, all classes searches for that code, but fun no way.

Next step is to put it on macro and go buy yourself some popcorn and watch a movie then get back for loot.

I've recently been pretty active on my Burg getting him geared up for T2 Acid finally.

I have a 5 piece ToO set currently, although I'm hoping to acquire the Unseen Moors set soon.

My Burg is currently sitting at 2060agility and almost 29.5k mastery and so far just with messing on the training dummies I'm usually parsing around 1750dps in 1m5s. This is unbuffed, no food, scrolls, cappy crit, just plain jane. I know I can get them higher eventually (still working on my rotation) but atm it has been enough to successfully complete the acid challenge.

There is one great link I learned about not to long ago that has been extremely helpful in understanding some very important things about burg skills, and why some rotations work better than others. It has already helped my burg a lot, and most likely it will in the future as well.

I'd definately recommend any Burg whether good or bad to check this link out.

http://entropy.guildlaunch.com/forum...c21f67904dc32b

Very good info here. Who ever Crookedmouf is, I'd like to personally say thanks for helping my own Burg rotations, and most likely many other burgs as well.

Originally Posted by Kurtdg21

I've recently been pretty active on my Burg getting him geared up for T2 Acid finally.

I have a 5 piece ToO set currently, although I'm hoping to acquire the Unseen Moors set soon.

My Burg is currently sitting at 2060agility and almost 29.5k mastery and so far just with messing on the training dummies I'm usually parsing around 1750dps in 1m5s. This is unbuffed, no food, scrolls, cappy crit, just plain jane. I know I can get them higher eventually (still working on my rotation) but atm it has been enough to successfully complete the acid challenge.

There is one great link I learned about not to long ago that has been extremely helpful in understanding some very important things about burg skills, and why some rotations work better than others. It has already helped my burg a lot, and most likely it will in the future as well.

I'd definately recommend any Burg whether good or bad to check this link out.

http://entropy.guildlaunch.com/forum...c21f67904dc32b

Very good info here. Who ever Crookedmouf is, I'd like to personally say thanks for helping my own Burg rotations, and most likely many other burgs as well.

Oh - glad it helped you and I appreciate the recommendation I've got no idea who Crookedmouf is either but I recognised the post he quoted - and ofc my name on top of it.

Here's where I posted it in the original thread:
http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.p...13#post6137613

Originally Posted by Gilias

Oh - glad it helped you and I appreciate the recommendation I've got no idea who Crookedmouf is either but I recognised the post he quoted - and ofc my name on top of it.

Here's where I posted it in the original thread:
http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.php?456213-A-newer-burg-trying-to-optimize-rotation-(w.r.t-attack-speed)&p=6137613#post6137613

Ahh, now I see where it says your name xD. Great material there, thanks Gilias!