Thread: Update 6: Developer Diary Feedback: Warg Revisions

If this perma root thing can only be done from a warg in melee distance, I am cool with that. If they can do it from 2.5+ meters out, I won't be happy. I want to be able to destroy this warg griefing me.

I mean, what if they root you, call you in, then a whole raid comes and kills you. Please please please have it only be within melee range.

Originally Posted by aad0italian

I want to be able to destroy this warg griefing me.

Funniest reply of the day... +rep (not really)

Originally Posted by Tharadin

For something new on BW last night we ran a mixed group of 2+ warg groups and one visible group (BAs, WL, DF). It was a good opportunity to interact with classes that we don't get to run with often and the effectiveness surprised both us and the groups that attacked what they thought was a single group. We won, we lost, we had fun and we learned.

Exactly !
Why do you always think "group" is "warg pack" ?
I really enjoy playing in small group with visibles creep in a lot of different combinations, warg duo, warg&reaver, warg&weaver, in a balanced fellowship, in raid (behind the freeps or in the fight to control the runners), tec ...

It's sad if after the U6 we are less able to solo play, I enjoy it a lot, I hope it won't be like that.
I'm impatient to test all o that !

In the same time I wish that the all pvp can be more balanced, please !

Originally Posted by Arvaen

The most dangerous solo hunters on my server don't rely on kiting.

They stand there and try to mouse turn and take it? That doesn't make sense... Or do they just gank -_-
As a part-time warg player myself, I do agree that wargs needed higher survivability, but not roots (lol, becoming a half-weaver now?) and more interrupt skills. Knowing when to use eye rake and pounce is quite enough, not to mention the occasional lucky stun

The Topple knockdown is described as a "long duration", which in the past has meant like 10s. Is it 10s and is this Topple knockdown gonna reflect general and/or audacity reductions in CC? Are the light/medium armor players going to be out of luck for the supposed 10s duration? I guess we could always store brand, that'd be the only way out of this predicatively over-used skill, unless you're a LM. Grand total of like 3 of those on my server

Originally Posted by Piedtendre

Exactly !
Why do you always think "group" is "warg pack" ?
I really enjoy playing in small group with visibles creep in a lot of different combinations, warg duo, warg&reaver, warg&weaver, in a balanced fellowship, in raid (behind the freeps or in the fight to control the runners), tec ...

Outside of a couple who tend to farm the res circles, in my limited experience in the moors the wargs that I've seen the most effective, by far, are those that run with other groups and cause choas in the ranks of the freeps when the freeps are busy occupied with another group of creeps. Freeps think they are hunting orcs only to be surprised in the middle of the fight when a couple of wargs pop up and shred the healers or hunters, then take off and disappear again. It's been very effective in the fights I've seen- much more so than many of the solo wargs.

Quote Originally Posted by Arvaen View Post
The most dangerous solo hunters on my server don't rely on kiting.

Originally Posted by Bond007

They stand there and try to mouse turn and take it? That doesn't make sense... Or do they just gank -_-

the problem with hunters and kiting is that most of their effective skills have inductions. There are only a couple that don't, and those require focus which you lose if you start moving around. So a hunter that tries to kite is only going to be able to get a couple of real shots off before all they are left with is auto-attack or a couple of melee skills. That can be offset somewhat with traps (have to be set before they are in combat mode), slows (warg's speed boosts effectively eliminate these), rain of thorns trap, or distracting shot (a stun that requires an induction) that are used in efforts to put some space between so they can then use inductions skills. it's why when a warg pounces with it's stun then slow a solo hunter is going to be pretty much dead- because they don't have the ability to deal out any real damage without an induction. But it's also why even the mouse turn doens't really work for a hunter- they can't use induction skills then.

Now there's likely some tricks that some of the other hunters have that I haven't learned yet, and I'm still pretty much a rookie out there in many ways. But if I can't be a distance away to piew piew, and I'm getting smacked up close and personal where I can't get a shot off, especially by more than one, it's probably not going to turn out well for me.

Haha well, yeah, wargs are tough to kite but that really wasnt my main point - sorry, guess i wasnt clear. My main is a hunter do i do know quite a bit about how to solo moors (it's tough but oh well, U6 is coming). My gripe isnt really just about the same old same old (moving cuts focus for a hunter). That's fixed by simply traiting imp fleetness, which is by far the most useful moors build. Constant generation of focus allows you to turn around to pop IPS and BlA, just run past the warg to keep low cut slow on.
HOWEVER, this is what annoys me about the new changes: currently, when I kite wargs, they are usually smart enough to hit eye rake as soon as they reach me once I've started an induction. Not to mention they also have a crippling bite-pounce stun chance, and a conj CD.
My point is, wargs already have plenty of ways to take down an induction based class, they're fine as is. Wargs didn't need more skills to faceroll hunters after a pounce, they needed more skills to stay alive longer if they were the ones who got jumped. It just seems to me that U6 is focusing a bit too heavily on the CC, interrupt, and initial damage capabilities of the warg, things that really do not need extra buffs.

This might have been covered somewhere else, if someone remembers could you quote it? If not quick question:

Can the stances be toggled during combat after the cool down?

Thanks

Originally Posted by Thorgrum

This might have been covered somewhere else, if someone remembers could you quote it? If not quick question:

Can the stances be toggled during combat after the cool down?

Thanks

I would imagine so, but it may be like some stances on a couple of the classes, where the cooldown actually starts when you turn off one of the stances, essentially meaning a pause of 10 seconds between stances without any stance at all. But that's just a guess. But I doubt that they would make it possible to switch easily from one to the other while in combat.

Originally Posted by Bond007

They stand there and try to mouse turn and take it? That doesn't make sense... Or do they just gank -_-
As a part-time warg player myself, I do agree that wargs needed higher survivability, but not roots (lol, becoming a half-weaver now?) and more interrupt skills. Knowing when to use eye rake and pounce is quite enough, not to mention the occasional lucky stun

They don't mount. They move from place to place on foot, tracking periodically. I can't say what they do for other opponents, but we generally play a tracking game. They stay in the open, camoing and laying traps. We go back and forth while I try to time it so that I can approach unseen. When we finally do engage, and the fight only lasts about 15-20 seconds at most, their attacks seem to consist almost entirely of penetrating shots and swift bow. Maybe a dazing blow or cry of the hunter as well. In any case, the fight is so quick that I can only eye rake once or twice (the first one in a stun) and we never move more than a few meters apart.

BTW, no warg with any sense would be using that root on you solo. If they do, they're committing suicide.

Originally Posted by Thorgrum

This might have been covered somewhere else, if someone remembers could you quote it? If not quick question:

Can the stances be toggled during combat after the cool down?

Thanks

It better or they are working backwargs. SH used to be couldn't use in combat or sprint. They changed it to be able to sprint but not combat but you could trait for stealth and sh to drop stealth near a target, use sh and eye rake if fast enough could dismount while putting sh up out of stealth. When I hit r10 sh was fun was round the time you could cj burgs.... SH was a blast back then, op but it wasn't long before burgs and guards could start killing me again.


If they can be used in combat (cry freeeps muahahahaha) the determining factor which will separate the good wargs from bad will be judging when to juggle between the two stances since audacity will hopefully draw out the fight. Orion meant it would be too op without a shared cd basically. With a 10s shared cd you prevent from using both stances skills right after each other. If you can't use stances in combat but freeps can gear swap in combat than sword/dagger thief's looks sick. He will blind you with stolen moa bird feathers!

I figured howler stance (what is the community name for flayer so far?) needed to be traited to use. I hope class traits will be overhauled for RoR at least, make all the class traits enhanced skills no passive clutter cookie cutter. http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.p...its-%28warg%29

Originally Posted by Arvaen

Shadow will rely heavily on:

1. Positional damage
2. The base damage increase from the stance

The most significant increases to our DPS however, are found with the stacking DoT from claws and the increased damage of agonizing maul. Both from "Flayer" stance.

I think Shadow DPS is going to be pretty high (someone from BR needs to check on this). But consider you get +15% increase on DPS across the board, plus you get skills activating with bonus damage as from stealth even when you are visible, plus if you attack from behind you get even more damage, plus the class trait that gives +20% crit chance (according to reports on creep forum) works ALL THE TIME for your "as from stealth" skills. That is a sick DPS potential.

I'm actually pretty psyched to run in Shadow most of the time. I didn't roll a warg to tank people.

I also saw a report somewhere that Enhanced Skill: Disappear/Topple cooldown is now down to 5min instead of 7. Can anyone confirm this? Might be a reason to slot this trait now.

Originally Posted by Sapience

Flayer replaces Shadow Howler. So if you already have Shadow Howler, you'll get Flayer and the current store offer for Shadown Howler will be replaced with Flayer.

Sorry, but i dont see neither Flayer nor Shadow Howler on store anymore. Is it out of stock? lol

Originally Posted by Hiritier

Sorry, but i dont see neither Flayer nor Shadow Howler on store anymore. Is it out of stock? lol

You get the flayer stance if you had bought that (shadow howler) skill (I think it was - something like that anyway) before the update. The only way you can get the flayer stance now is if you are rank 10. The shadow stance is bought with commendations. BTW flayer stance is OK against NPCs but in PvP it sucks..the 10s knockdown means you're not stealthed so you are gonne die first. You can change, from stealthed to flayer but it takes a few seconds and it means (again) your escape options are extremely limited. Which is the only thing a warg has going for him (or her). One v one a good hunter, rk or mini will still cream us. But it's a lot better than it used to be