Thread: Update 6: Developer Diary Feedback: Warg Revisions

This update the Warg will have two distinct playstyles that players can choose: The fragile stealthier or the scrapping brawler. For the Warg that has been dying to charge in and ferociously rip their opponents apart while soaking up damage, your time has come. Read more in the first Developer Diary from Jinjaah and join the discussion!

So the only ones getting the so called "juggernaut" skill will be P2W wargs. And I also LOL'ed at the Pack Hunters. Even more reason for Wargs to pack up for no reason.

So per the diary:

Flayer Stance (Replaces Shadow Howler):
· “Forsaking speed and surprise for defense, you become a juggernaut on the battlefield.”
· Unlocks: Rank 15

all flayer skills will be prohibited to R15 wargs. Unless you can buy it in the store (which would be a complete and utter shock, SHOCK!) So until R15, we’ve effectively been nerfed as shadow howler is gone so you loose the armor buff and the bubble.

Am I missing something?

Updates look good to me.

Looking forward to trying them out on BR.

I like the changes, looks like it will make Wargs a little more than the puppies they are now.

But R15 (read: Store only) for a stance that is integral to the new Warg gameplay? That's just dishonest, shame on you Turbine.

Originally Posted by Thorgrum

So per the diary:



all flayer skills will be prohibited to R15 wargs. Unless you can buy it in the store (which would be a complete and utter shock, SHOCK!) So until R15, we’ve effectively been nerfed as shadow howler is gone so you loose the armor buff and the bubble.

Am I missing something?

Maybe Turbine's new goal is to revamp classes, wipe out some old skills, make new "replacement" skills which you will need to re-buy with commendations(or if you're not r15 then TP).

The warg changes are looking good.. but R15......... this is really sad. Its beyond sad. R15 for a stance is kinda pathetic.

Originally Posted by thunderchickn

But R15 (read: Store only) for a stance that is integral to the new Warg gameplay? That's just dishonest, shame on you Turbine.

Given the anticipation and genuinely positive vibes about U6 and turbine showing an interest in PVP its disheartening. That said we should give this new guy a chance, lets get a straight answer, can the new flayer stance be purchased in store?

If it can that’s pretty low, even I wasn’t cynical enough to have guessed it. if it isnt and is exclusive to R15 fine, then lets start talking about the nerf we are all going to have to deal with until we get to 15, the loss of shadow howler (which I bought in the store btw).

I'm no PvMPer but even I can understand that rank 15 for that stance is a rather unfair deal. I checked the leaderboards and there are no R15 creeps on Brandywine or Landrorval. (not sure if the data is up to date though)

Flayer Stance (Replaces Shadow Howler):

•Unlocks: Rank 15

I think it would be fair to replace shadow howler for all the wargs that bought it from the store with this for no extra fee. O wait...

Nice work Turbine the changes are decent bar the R15 P2W Skill you will make every warg player want to buy.

Epic fail on that part....As Jessie J says its all about the money :-D

Originally Posted by Axnthnlogn

Maybe Turbine's new goal is to revamp classes, wipe out some old skills, make new "replacement" skills which you will need to re-buy with commendations(or if you're not r15 then TP).

Maybe, but someone had to surmise that making the flayer stance R15 would induce questions. We absolutely need a direct answer on the matter, sapience is usually pretty direct maybe he will pop by.

Originally Posted by Thorgrum

Given the anticipation and genuinely positive vibes about U6 and turbine showing an interest in PVP its disheartening. That said we should give this new guy a chance, lets get a straight answer, can the new flayer stance be purchased in store?

If it can that’s pretty low, even I wasn’t cynical enough to have guessed it. if it isnt and is exclusive to R15 fine, then lets start talking about the nerf we are all going to have to deal with until we get to 15, the loss of shadow howler (which I bought in the store btw).

I don't see why not, every other skill is purchasable in the store right? They have to know that if not available in the store, a requirement of R15 basically means they wasted any resources they put into this as far less than 1% of the population will have it. Heck, no one on American servers and I could count everyone in the world who can use it on one hand!

Wait till Worg gets here...

I would suggest making Flayer Stance unlock at Rank 10, especially if it's supposed to replace Shadow Howler (a Rank 10 unlock, strangely enough).

"Lets Rock!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

Originally Posted by thunderchickn

I don't see why not, every other skill is purchasable in the store right? They have to know that if not available in the store, a requirement of R15 basically means they wasted any resources they put into this as far less than 1% of the population will have it. Heck, no one on American servers and I could count everyone in the world who can use it on one hand!

Your logic is spot on, its just not official. I want to see it from a blue name because if its infact the case, it’s a nerf to wargs loosing shadow howler and it’s a slap in the face (IMHO) for those warg creeps who genuinely thought they were getting a new update they could use straight away.

Originally Posted by RicardoFurriel

Wait till Worg gets here...

That's why I'm here hitting F5 F5 F5 F5

EDIT: Aww looks like he hasn't seen the R15 requirement yet.

Originally Posted by Beastnas

I would suggest making Flayer Stance unlock at Rank 10, especially if it's supposed to replace Shadow Howler (a Rank 10 unlock, strangely enough).

This is what one would expect.

Originally Posted by Stevo6

And I also LOL'ed at the Pack Hunters. Even more reason for Wargs to pack up for no reason.

Hmm...

Also...Rank 15? lol? Maybe he copied and pasted the "Unlocks: Rank 1" from Shadow stance and tried to replace the 1 with a 5?

Everything looks really cool, except the R15 requirement on the new stance. So, for all practical purposes, the majority of this warg update requires a store purchase, even for VIPs. That is a total fail and essentially ruins the warg update, IMO. It should be available at R5-R7, but even a R10 requirement would be leagues better (and a nice reward for vet wargies) than essentially store only.

Honestly, whose idea was this? Please tell me this is a mistake?

Flayer Stance (Replaces Shadow Howler):

“Forsaking speed and surprise for defense, you become a juggernaut on the battlefield.”
Unlocks: Rank 15

Unlocks at rank 15? That's great! Sometime in the next two or three years one of our Vilya Wargs will unlock it for sure!

I can hardly wait.

And wait.

And wait . . .

Seriously. Rank 15? If this was supposed to be an "option" for us, it needs to be accessible to us. I think the mechanical changes are a great idea, but with an unreasonable rank requirement it becomes, essentially, a nerf.

But, hey, why not? We lost separate cooldowns on our Good maps. Our Track ability has a shorter range and four times the cooldown of a Hunter's, we pop out of stealth if something looks in our general direction, and our sprint can [I]almost[I] catch up with one of those 168% horses - as long as the rider's not running the 20% speed boost. Why not give us a stance we'll never be able to use, because none of us have the patience to reach rank 15.

Honestly. You Devs have done some amazing things, but PvMP needs to be balanced. Most of Angmar's forces, while often fiercely loyal to The Great Eye, get a little tired of feeling like the Valar only care about making it a good experience for the other side. Show us a little love once in a while. Yes, we get more powerful as we rank up, but it takes only a fraction of the time to get a "normal" character Moors ready than it takes to get one of us up into the middle ranks. Loremaster Doesn't have good gear? No problem. Go PVE some more. You'll get it. Blackarrow doesn't have rank? No problem. Spend a couple months getting blown up regularly until you can almost match a moderately equipped Burg - that you still can't see.

Please tell me this was supposed to be R5 and is a typo?

Actually in retrospect, I hope to Eru that it's a typing error and that it's actually meant to be Rank 5.

I mean, I bought SH many months previously to try it out so I'll presumably have access anyways, but still...

Originally Posted by Nyrion

Actually in retrospect, I hope to Eru that it's a typing error and that it's actually meant to be Rank 5.

I mean, I bought SH many months previously to try it out so I'll presumably have access anyways, but still...

Until a blue name comes in and clears the air, you probably shouldn’t presume anything.

Maybe Rank 10 for Flayer ... but 15?! (or P2W?) :^(

omg

I've tried to always be supportive of this game and of turbine but...argh. I'm speechless.

R15 :|

Originally Posted by Thorgrum

Until a blue name comes in and clears the air, you probably shouldn’t presume anything.

S'pose so, just seemed the rational conclusion to me, since the skill is replacing SH, not becoming a new skill in its own right.

Regarding the Flayers issue typos can very easily go under the radar, hence why I'm hoping this is one(albeit possibly THE most unfortunate typo in a long time).

Originally Posted by thunderchickn

I like the changes, looks like it will make Wargs a little more than the puppies they are now.

But R15 (read: Store only) for a stance that is integral to the new Warg gameplay? That's just dishonest, shame on you Turbine.

Typo without a doubt

Woot Wargs are OP again. One pack to rule them ALL!!! Hmmmm, Seems update 6 is about PvP from all the PvP dev diaries comming out. Woot!!!

Originally Posted by Nyrion

S'pose so, just seemed the rational conclusion to me, since the skill is replacing SH, not becoming a new skill in its own right.

Regarding the Flayers issue typos can very easily go under the radar, hence why I'm hoping this is one(albeit possibly THE most unfortunate typo in a long time).

I’m hopeful it’s a typo too, and that wargs get a vibrant update with a new stance that can be obtained through reasonable ranking. However hope dosent supplant fact, and the fact is the dev diary says it will be available at R15.

We can hope and speculate all we want, unless otherwise state we should take what is said literally.

Now im totally disappointed...... The biggest warg cynic on these forums who complains about every little thing didnt whine about the r15 requirement? I was actually looking forward to his rage. When i first saw this threat my first thought was "i cant wait to see what purebloodworg says." I. am.. let... down.....

Flayer Stance (Replaces Shadow Howler):
· “Forsaking speed and surprise for defense, you become a juggernaut on the battlefield.”
· Unlocks: Rank 15

Hey devs. grow a pair and tell them what they're doing to this game, else you'll just be losing more and more customers, this is sure to get you a few bucks in the shortterm, but you're going to lose out on alot of customers, not just the wargs, when they see the blatant marketing/development tactic you've just done.

Loved you back in asherons call when it was about making a fun game and a fun community, now you all are just a bunch of tools working for Warner Brothers....

and yes, boycotting all turbine/wardenbrothers stuffs from here on out.
good game turbine....
/unsub

Flayer Stance (Replaces Shadow Howler):

“Forsaking speed and surprise for defense, you become a juggernaut on the battlefield.”
Unlocks: Rank 15
Cooldown: 10 seconds (shared with Shadow)
Cannot stealth or disappear while in this stance.
Moderately Increases:
Armour value
Tactical mitigation
Physical mitigation
Places a morale bubble on the Warg which refreshes every 7 seconds. When the bubble pops, the Warg receives 1% of its max health. If the bubble is not popped, the Warg gains 5% of its max health.
Unable to stealth in this stance.
Certain abilities have “Brute Bonuses” which have a chance to add additional debuffs to your target.


So In other words,
Shadow howler will become a toggling skill with a cool down timer, I can Live with that.
The Flayer stance will alter other skills, Okay, I can live with that.
"Unlocks: Rank 15" ... What the hell...

Flayer Stance (Replaces Shadow Howler)
If it is REPLACING Shadow howler, that means 2 things.

1. It should be acquired either upon reaching Rank 10 (or purchasable via the Lotro Store) Just Like Shadow Howler
&
2. After Update 6 is live, It should be on both mine & everyone else's skill bar that already has Shadow Howler.

Rank 15 to get Flayer Stance? How many Rank 15 Wargs are there in the entire game?

Either this is a typo (Rank 5? That would be more reasonable) or a bald-faced money-grubbing scheme to get people to use the Turbine Store. If the latter, despicable. That would be like telling freeps they can't use their new legendary whatever-they-get-for-85 until you buy them in the store.

Lets break down it so it will be easy for someone to reply:

1. Is flayer an R15 only skill, or was R15 a typo?

2. If the warg already has shadow howler will they automatically get flayer stance?

3. Is the new skill going to be sold in the store?

Those seem to be the pressing questions, it would be nice to get clarity on them ASAP so the merits of the diary content can be discussed rather than the focus being on the rank requirement.

It seems to me like its like many other "improved" skills that replaces the previous version creeps buy all the time, such as enhanced quitters never win and enhanced hamstring both have high rank requirements (enhanced quitters is r15 as well). People buy these all the time, why is everyone throwing a temper tantrum now?

Originally Posted by Daec

It seems to me like its like many other "improved" skills that replaces the previous version creeps buy all the time, such as enhanced quitters never win and enhanced hamstring both have high rank requirements (enhanced quitters is r15 as well). People buy these all the time, why is everyone throwing a temper tantrum now?

Likely because the assumption was this was a stance that was going to be given to the current warg player base . It was an enhancement to the current player base, not something that had to be obtained. That’s my assumption, while I didn’t expect it to be an R15 skill, I certainly thought some of the skills associated with the stance would need to be earned via rank (or bought in the store).

Originally Posted by Thorgrum

Lets break down it so it will be easy for someone to reply:

1. Is flayer an R15 only skill, or was R15 a typo?

2. If the warg already has shadow howler will they automatically get flayer stance?

3. Is the new skill going to be sold in the store?

Those seem to be the pressing questions, it would be nice to get clarity on them ASAP so the merits of the diary content can be discussed rather than the focus being on the rank requirement.

Yes, Please, Clarification Pronto

Since it's replacing Shadow Howler , I'm pretty sure we will get it instead of SH , if we already have it .

I'm positive on this .

The rank 15 requirement does seem odd.

It also seems to have distracted people from the fact (as I read it) that you actually can use the DPS stance then Disappear in much the same way that you can now - but with a 10s delay before you can Disappear.

As I recall, one of the complaints about the previous Dev Diary was that it seemed to indicate that you'd be locked into once stance or the other for the duration of combat. That seems to have been addressed, albeit accompanied by discouraging news with the R15 requirement for one of the stances.