Thread: SUGGESTION: Revamp Power on LOTRO!

Hi everyone, I have been playing LOTRO for almost five years, and I think it's about time Turbine made some changes to how classes use their skills. At the moment, every class uses this blue-coloured vital called 'Power', and that's quite a broad term to use. Great! Let's make it stay broad.

My suggestion is to remove the use of 'Power' for all classes and replace it with the following:

Lore-master = Mana
Rune-keeper = Mana
Minstrel = Mana
Champion = Rage
Guardian = Rage
Warden = Energy
Hunter = Energy
Burglar = Energy
Captain = Mana
War-leader = Rage
Reaver = Rage
Weaver = Mana
Blackarrow = Energy
Defiler = Mana
Stalker = Energy


So, the reasons for this are very simple. It's to stop certain classes from benefitting from stats that have no use for them. For example, as a champion, will and fate are useless and I fail to see the mechanics of a champion who wants to invest into the stats, instead of might and vitality. By instituting this idea into place, you narrow down what each class need and it makes gameplay much more fun. In doing so, classes like the champion can have a more vivid approach to gameplay, without worrying about running out of power. Skills like 'Second Wind' would greatly benefit the champion here. 'Power' potions would now become 'Mana' potions, as the rate of generation of Rage and Energy is fast in combat and out of combat. Also, Rage and Energy work well with the champion's Fervour and the hunter's Focus. The champion's Fervour with this idea now acts in a more appropriate fashion by allowing the champion to actually look more like a warrior than a hybrid class. The same applies to the hunter.

The champion, hunter and guardian will have Rage or Energy starting at 100 by default, but this can be increased by using scrolls which increase it by a certain amount temporarily. It could also be increased permanently by equipping certain traits. This idea, to some extent, doesn't affect the classes that use the Power system and transition to the mana system; they will benefit from Will and Fate accordingly.

Right now, it seems illogical why champions have the nature to benefit from Will and Fate, because we have Fervour, Ardour and Glory for our in-combat/out of combat power regeneration; we can't parry, evade or block as much; we rely on might and vitality as well as physical mitigation, and therefore focusing on Will and Fate for power does not justify the situation.

Thanks all! Comments are welcome.

sounds to me you want to turn the champ into the WoW warrior.

Mana? In the Lord of the Rings? No thank you.

Where's the Captain anyway?

Hi all, I'm not sure what the invasion is all about but let me clear a few things up:

1. This idea does not intend to turn the champion into a WoW warrior because the idea of a warrior class using a non-mana based resource goes back way before World of Warcraft. If you played games like Might and Magic or the Elder Scrolls, you will notice that warriors on those games do not use mana/power for their skills. This whole idea is a conservative form of gameplay and it remains a vivid tradition that even today's games still use, including Rift, Elder Scrolls: Skyrim and WoW. The idea does not intend to turn the champion into a WoW warrior because how the warrior functions in the latter is very different from the champion on LOTRO.

2. I think you misunderstood what I meant by 'mana'. I traditionally use the term 'mana' for any blue-power resource of a class, and some people like to use MP, and that's no problem at all. Currently, all classes use 'mana' as the blue-power resource, but what I'm asking for here is to keep the term 'Power' at bay so it can be used (if in the future this idea comes to implementation) to describe all secondary-power reserves of a class. I'm using 'mana' discreetly to describe the secondary-power reserves of a ranged magic class, e.g. Lore-master or minstrel.

EDIT: Thanks, I've updated my original post and included the captain as well. :-)

So you basically want the best of both worlds hmmm?

ok, so champs, hunters and RK's already have a little bar that says what skills they could use, i lack the imagination most on this thread have so think about how turb would implement that. and also, i know the the big W (wow) word is supposed to be non existent in this forum, but blizzard knows what they're doing. i personally love the way the classes are set up, somtimes they seem to be alittle easy and button spamming which is why i left wow for lotro in the first place (that and the lore has wow beat any day). but the energy/rage/mana idea is a great thing that wow did to make the classes seem that much more different.

lotro has ALREADY gotten a lot of things that wow has, only a little later than wow, but lotro has made them better in my opinion, for example the trait system......i LOVE having to work for them. grind for a certain trait for many a level and FINALLY get it, when you trait it, it's like you want to take a picture of the moment. blizzard has lost that with wow. turbine SHOULD think about this one.

only thing is i think it would require a lot more work than most think about, complete class revamps. COMPLETE....that is a huge undertaking, just hope they don't give the burg combo points and take away the debuffs....i hated spamming sinister strike and eviscerate for anyone who knows anything about wow rogue...BORING, no thanks.

and why would u care if lotro takes some of blizzards better ideas for our game, wow is a good game with amazing developers. lotro could learn some things as wow could learn from us, tootles.

Turbine has been steadily simplifying our stats and the combat system. Changing the way stats drive secondary stats and combat system. I wouldn't surprised if Turbine eventually goes to functional equivalent of this suggestion. They are not going to change the name. Everybody will still use Power. For a Champion your power pool would 3 times your Might. Your In Combat Power Regeneration and Out Combat Regeneration comes from Might and Vitality.

I am curious as to how far Turbine is going to go on the simplication. We have a lot less stats currently than we had years ago. It used to be that a balanced build was viable because of stat caps, less benefit for higher values and the way all five stats fed into the combat system.

But, in all honesty, why would Turbine move Power regeneration benefits to Might and Vitality? That will actually compound the power issue and make it more complicated, and plus it would make the game boring because everyone has high power reserves; it's even more boring that everyone has a blue-power resource.

My suggestion here simply wants Turbine to remove that 'blue-power' reserve for certain classes and replace it with something that suits the class and is more appropriate. Thinking from a WoW-perspective, why would a warrior use mana for skills? Surely, it's more like energy or rage to decide the issue. It's about time that as part of Turbine's efforts to simplify all stats, they prevent certain classes from benefiting from certain stats and overhaul the secondary-power reserves to suit the class better.

For example, a champion would no longer be able to benefit from Will and Fate, and will now have to focus on Might and Vitality as proposed by Turbine because that's what they want. As a result, the champion will now have a new secondary-reserve called 'Rage' which they will use for executing skills, along with Fervour, which will make the class hugely fun and more conservative with regards to the class' role.

Although, the one thing I like about LOTRO is that it seems to favour a priority system in which you can execute your skills based on how you want. On WoW, you lack this initiative and you are compelled to spam certain skills. On the warrior, it's more or less the same, especially when you are rend-tanking at low level. Although, this is not WoW, and this is LOTRO, and I think the combat system is 'alright', but they should really consider removing the Skill Queue and replace it with a Global Cooldown of some sort, but that's another topic.

Have enough unnecessary changes happening, don't want to add another.

Not signed.

As someone who hated the last stat simplification, I really do not like this. I like that the different stats do (did) different things. And I thought with the way that they unleashed the stats from there caps, it could have been really interesting to let each player build their toon a different way. But alas now every "real" player wants to build their super stat up way high. Please no more.

/notsigned

The change is not needed, as the classes are (fairly) balanced around the current stat allocation. With or without the changes all classes would still have the same output.

/Not sign.

I think they are doing a good job already. It would end up with classes needing more skills. Let take LM. Skill Share the Power. Is it going to give the Gaurd and Champ more Rage?

No im sorry i dont like mana for captain.Ive had enough back then to stack up will and fate.
Sorry i wont support mate

Originally Posted by Mephistophelis

But, in all honesty, why would Turbine move Power regeneration benefits to Might and Vitality?.

Only for Champions and other Might and Vitality based classes. Lore Masters would still use Will and Fate.

Think about it. That is what Turbine did with our offensive stat. Turbine started to do away with the need for having all primary stats. They did the same thing with mitigation. Remember when we used to have acid, fire, shadow and so for mitigations - they are all tactical mitigation - all the same number unless you happen to have an item that buffs one of the mitigations. You have common mitigation under physical.

So far Turbine been trying to deal with people pouring points in Might or Agility via power regeneration skills. Champions never have to worry about power between their ICPR and their power generator that they have to keep winding. Or adjusting the power cost of skills. Or adjusting ICPR. Or giving classes a power generating skill.

Hi guys, this is not a petition thread. I am not going to respond to players who are going to respond with "/signed" or "/unsigned" because that is not constructive at all. It simply tells me that the following players do not enjoy discussions, which is what forums are intended for.

I will justify though, and it makes sense why Turbine are moving towards simplifying stats. Let's consider this:

Suppose we have a level 75 character with k values of stats.

100k Might
100k Vitality
100k Agility
100k Will
100k Fate

Now, what you lot are saying is that it's great that players actually invest in all five stats and actually get the most out of all of them. Okay, sure, but this is the reality:

100k Might = X Physical damage
100k Vitality = X1 Vitality
100k Agility = Y Critical Damage
100k Will = X2 Power
100k Fate = X3 In-combat regeneration

Right, so with these values, I'm going to substitute them into my champion:

100k Might = X Physical damage --> Sure, I'll take that.
100k Vitality = X1 Vitality --> Sure, I'll take that too!
100k Agility = Hmm, I would love the critical strikes but I can make up for no critical strikes by using Flurry/Exchange of Blows to deal more DPS. I can't evade or parry because I'm using Fervour, and if I switch it off, I won't be able to make up for the critical strikes.
100k Will = Is it necessary? I'm not focused on resistances because I have no spell skills.
100k Fate = My chances of dying are already high by being at melee range; I have Fervour to increase my power regeneration, and if I have high power, then I can gain more health by using 'Dire Need' and use 'Bracing Attack' more often without worrying about power. I can also regenerate my power in combat by using 'Second Wind'. I don't need fate.


Right, so out of 5 primary stats, I have decided to choose Might and Vitality, but I still decide to keep the points in the other 3 because that's what you lot want.

In comparison to another champion who invests heavily into Might and Vitality mainly, they will DPS at a much stronger rate than I would. My survivability with Fate or Will is nothing compared to how fast they can DPS, and how effective their physical mitigation is.

Because we have so many wasted stats here, there is absolutely no point in actually having Will and Fate, or even Agility to serve the champion class, because those stats just aren't compatible. My original post simply addresses this and it urges Turbine to actually simplify this, and prevent Fate and Will from benefitting champions, because it's not fair on other classes who do invest points in these stats and it undervalues them entirely. How would you feel if you saw minstrels investing points into Might and surviving at a greater rate than you are because they can heal as well as DPS? It's not fair at all, is it?

The main idea behind this is to remove Will and Fate, and in order to compensate we replace the secondary-power reserves with resources such as 'Rage' or 'Energy', and believe me, when other MMORPGs like WoW and Elder Scrolls, who are so successful in the games industry actually implement this system, then clearly there is a full-logical reason behind it. I'm shocked as to why a lot of players here, whom I regard by their level and experience actually frown upon this idea and spit at this thread as though it's a useless paper, alas it's in our nature to frown upon new ideas, and that's what suggestions are all about, are they not? My suggestions are new to you, but that does not mean they are impossible to implement. If Turbine thus far have improved the game for the better, then I shouldn't see why they shouldn't take it further and make class roles more viable and actually improve gameplay for the better.

I pity those who continue to spam this thread with "signed" or "/unsigned" remarks, because that was not what I asked for. I did not ask for a petition here, but simply comments and by that, I mean constructive feedback. Thank you.

Originally Posted by Mephistophelis

I pity those who continue to spam this thread with "signed" or "/unsigned" remarks, because that was not what I asked for. I did not ask for a petition here, but simply comments and by that, I mean constructive feedback. Thank you.

We gave our constructive feedback when we said not signed. It should have been clear that our feedback was 'this is an unnecessary idea and not one that should be implemented'.

So, again, not signed.

Originally Posted by Mephistophelis

I pity those who continue to spam this thread with "signed" or "/unsigned" remarks, because that was not what I asked for. I did not ask for a petition here, but simply comments and by that, I mean constructive feedback. Thank you.

No-one here has /unsigned without stating the reason why they disagree. A statement of why someone disagrees IS constructive feedback.


P.S. /Unsigned due to change being unnecesary and detrimentally complicated.

Originally Posted by Mephistophelis

I pity those who continue to spam this thread with "signed" or "/unsigned" remarks, because that was not what I asked for. I did not ask for a petition here, but simply comments and by that, I mean constructive feedback. Thank you.

It really comes down to you not appreciating the opinion of those responding to the thread. You have a well thought out suggestion that turns out to be something most of the responders, self included see no merit in.

It's really quite simple in relationship to the two bars that we have:

• MORALE: We don't die, we get defeated and loose the moral that we need to continue the fight with. The more morale we have, the less likely that we will loose the battle. You can call the bar your "hit point bar" but it's still a "Morale Bar". Personally, I feel they should have changed the undying tittle to "Steadfast" or something to that effect since we don't die.
• POWER: That's the all encompassing bar that reflects how much power that one has to utilize their abilities. You can call it a "Mana Bar" but that does not change what it actually is. The more power one has, the more abilities one can use and the more advantage they have in the battle. We often refer to a challenging foe as a powerful enemy, instead of detailing their every attribute.

Changing the definitions simply makes an uncomplicated system more complicated without adding any real benefit in my opinion. As others pointed out, do we need to detail the "Power" heals/boosts as providing Strength to "X" class, but only mana to "Y" class or a mix of "X" & "Y" to "Z" class? Especially if the beneficial effect will be the same across the board?

Another aspect of the game is that quite a few players enjoy dabbling in more than one class. It would become tiresome to stack all different sorts of potions to replemish "The Long Blue Bar" based on the changes that you suggest. Oh wait, I'm playing a champion and I grabbed the blue potions that I use on my Lore Master!

It sounds like a good idea but it would feel like no one will run out of POW or mana....

/no sign..

sorry.

Originally Posted by Mephistophelis

I pity those who continue to spam this thread with "signed" or "/unsigned" remarks, because that was not what I asked for. I did not ask for a petition here, but simply comments and by that, I mean constructive feedback. Thank you.

Odd, I pity those who feel like they can control the responses of others in a public forum. While the responses may not have been stat detailed they are still no less valid if they provide even a simple explanation for why that person does not desire a change.

Simply put: Adjusting power/stats so that "unneeded stats" won't be used on classes is a moot point, since classes are already not stacking those unneeded stats. They are currently balanced around not using those unneeded stats, and because of that the stats offer a quick reference to what items are attractive to what classes for a main/secondary/tertiary/etc. build.

For example: Champions are balanced around primarily needing might/vitality, secondarily needing agility/will/fate. If this was thrown out the window, and champions were changed to gain all the benefits of agility/will/fate through their might/vitality stats, then they would need to be balanced around other classes making similar changes. The classes would from that point be re-balanced to an acceptable input/output range and thus we would be brought full circle - outputs would be normalized and every class would be brought to their original balance as if the change was never made.

That is why I view this as unnecessary dev time. That is why I /unsign (I would like to add that even if somebody puts /sign or /unsign, it is commonplace to just view it as a sign of acceptance or disagreement if nothing is actually being signed).

To hit on a few more of your points:

How would you feel if you saw minstrels investing points into Might and surviving at a greater rate than you are because they can heal as well as DPS? It's not fair at all, is it?

I would applaud the discovery. Making use of secondary and tertiary builds is not something to look down upon. Each class has 3 different trees for a reason. If everybody was a cookie cutter copy of each other then this game would have a FAR less appeal to me. So, if another person is able to make an uncommon - even rare - build viable then that is to be encouraged, not feared. Granted, all builds should be balanced, but we're not talking about balance with this example. We're talking about a champion that is jealous of a mini because they can use might too in this hypothetical situation.

The main idea behind this is to remove Will and Fate, and in order to compensate we replace the secondary-power reserves with resources such as 'Rage' or 'Energy', and believe me, when other MMORPGs like WoW and Elder Scrolls, who are so successful in the games industry actually implement this system, then clearly there is a full-logical reason behind it. I'm shocked as to why a lot of players here, whom I regard by their level and experience actually frown upon this idea and spit at this thread as though it's a useless paper, alas it's in our nature to frown upon new ideas, and that's what suggestions are all about, are they not?

You say "new idea" as if the WoW system is something new and exciting. Imagine my reaction when you say that people are "frowning upon new ideas" when this "new idea" is from a game created 8 years ago, 3 years before lotro. Having a normalized Morale/Power system with the individual classes having unique functions is FAR superior in my eyes than simplifying the classes further and taking power out of the equation.

If Turbine thus far have improved the game for the better, then I shouldn't see why they shouldn't take it further and make class roles more viable and actually improve gameplay for the better.

This is a matter of opinion, at the very best conjecture. Simpler =\= better. Classes would be no more/less viable than they already are since they would all still be balanced to attain Turbine's desired output compared to other classes, which is the same output they would be at given the current system.


So finally, I yet again write my /unsigned on the basis that this would be a cosmetic change only. Classes would be balanced to attain no more or less output than they currently do despite any system implemented.

I reiterate that the idea encourages people not to invest points in certain stats for power, and instead be relieved of mana and thus use a seconary-power resource. The only people who should be using a blue-power resource (mana) are minstrels, rune-keepers, captains and lore-masters. Captains, because they are a hybrid class.

If Turbine allow champions to use skills through 'Rage' instead of 'Power', then they won't have to worry about mana. But, of course, champions can't spam a skill because Rage can run out and they may have to become aware as to which skills to use. Using mana as a resource for all classes isn't wise, especially when that very resource can only be obtained through stats which have no relevance to a class. Champions, guardians etc don't need will or fate because it doesn't match their criterion. Thus, it's better to disable the respective classes from benefitting from certain stats and compensate with my suggestion.

In all honesty, is this idea really that complicated? Many games use this strategy, and I fail to see why LOTRO won't. I would 100% understand if you find it complicated, if it becomes known that LOTRO happens to be your first RPG/MMORPG: fine, I get that, but five years of the same combat strategy is enough. On WoW, they update their combat strategies every expansion. They're even using a system similar to our traits system for their new expansion. Go and have a look and you will see that it, in some ways, has some similarities to the system we have now.

I actually had a similar idea. For the record Meph, it's a solid one. The problem is probably more presentation. People don't like to see the words mana and rage.

I do believe, very strongly, that a universal resource mechanic is not ideal. Different classes ought to have different resources that function differently. 'Caster' types should retain the 'power' resource, IMO, while Guardians and Champions should use something like rage, but call it 'veracity' or 'mettle'. Burglars, hunters, and Wardens can use something like 'energy'. I'm not sure if the captains should fall under caster or heavy melee designation, honestly.

The advantages of splitting this up would mainly be for itemization. This has long been one of LOTRO's weakest links. Currently, melee classes are required to invest in both power regen stats as well as stats that affect their skills, while stacking vitality for survivability. Casters on the other hand only have to worry about their power stats, as will and fate affect their skills as well. This leads to gear disputes, balance problems, itemization clumsiness, etc.

I personally don't really see the need for this. :/

As someone else stated, the power bar is the *energy* our character has to use skills. Loremasters/Ministrels/Runekeepers don't use magic points/mana. The idea is that when you're out of power, you're too tired to do anything but whack things. You have no energy to come up with fancy complicated moves. It's "realistic".

As I see it, the Rage you're talking about is the fervour for champions, focus for hunters and so on.

I think that leaving a bit of a choice as to how you're going to build your character/class is important. Every class has 2-3 secondary stats that tend to be ignored now, so the situation is balanced (your Champion has low power, my Loremaster has low agility -we all make up for each other's shortcomings). It's a fairly simple system -most people will go for a classic build, but we're still free to experiment a bit. (And that's how in the mmorpg I used to play 3 years ago we came up with a really unique-awesome pvp hybrid build).

In conclusion: it's a nice idea, I just don't think it could be implemented very well in Lotro.

You know Mephistophelis This game is NOT WOW and not related to wow. Yet you will not ask a answer few questions. Like burgler with CJ and LM Share the power, that can give power to other Classes power. If the Champ and Gaurd need power how are the LM Burgler going to know when to give them power.

I will say your idea should stay in other games. We like lotro because it NOT like other games.

If you read my original post, I said that the word 'Power' should still be used discreetly to describe all secondary-power reserves such as Rage, Energy or Mana. The blue conjunction sequence would regenerate that power reserve, regardless of class.

@Bucaneve:

Mana and energy are different. If everyone followed your theory, many games would simply have one secondary power-reserve as on LOTRO. Leaving choice for how a character can be built is a useless theory, because it doesn't work. We as humans behind the screen want the best for ourselves and there is absolutely no reason why someone like me with a champion would want to invest half points into might, and half points into will. That's silly and there's no logic.

Oh ya I can see it now.

Player 1 Screaming I need more Mana
Player 2 Screaming I need more Rage
Player 3 Screaming I need more Energy
Dumbfounded Burgler going HUH all I have to give is Power what the CJ for rage skill? Is it RED, Yellow, Green or Blue. or a combo of all?
Dumbfounded Lore master going HUH all I can give is Power What skill is my Mana Skill or Rage?
Confused Captian going which Banner should I be useing for mana, Rage or engery?

We dont want people to be confused due to a name change. We already have trouble with people leveling up to 75 in two weeks time. Then think they know how to play there classes in fellowship and Raids.

Originally Posted by Mephistophelis

If you read my original post, I said that the word 'Power' should still be used discreetly to describe all secondary-power reserves such as Rage, Energy or Mana. The blue conjunction sequence would regenerate that power reserve, regardless of class.

@Bucaneve:

Mana and energy are different. If everyone followed your theory, many games would simply have one secondary power-reserve as on LOTRO. Leaving choice for how a character can be built is a useless theory, because it doesn't work. We as humans behind the screen want the best for ourselves and there is absolutely no reason why someone like me with a champion would want to invest half points into might, and half points into will. That's silly and there's no logic.

In those games you don't have morale, but health points. To make Lotro rp friendly, we have a morale bar and don't die; our morale is simply so low we cannot fight any longer. The same goes for our power bar; we don't use magic, we use tricks/traps/etc. That's why the power bar is our "energy" bar. I know it doesn't work like that with other mmorpgs.

It's fine if you think it's silly :/. To me, experimenting is fun. Depending on what I'm doing -I'm often duoing fellowship content with a friend- I need to come up with weird builds/strategies.

The change you're suggesting would imply revamping thousands of gear pieces- adjusting their stats accordingly. It really is a massive job to undertake compared to how little it would affect gameplay.

But that is of course just my opinion ^^;.

It's clear that people have not read my original post, how clever.

Energy and Rage regenerate at a fast rate in-combat and out-of-combat, you can never say you ran out of it, because it will regenerate eventually. Mana is just another word for power, so whomever uses it can kindly make a gesture. Morale and health are the same thing. "We don't use magic"? What the hell? You are out of your mind, you have no idea what you're talking about! Rune-keepers, LMs etc use magic. Tricks/traps require energy because they're hard to assemble. Besides, traps don't require energy. We use the term 'energy' to describe any direct attack skill used to immobilise an opponent. I'm actually surprised that a lot of players here have an anti-WoW stance. You lot need to actually learn to appreciate the gameplay on WoW, and I've played it, but I like Tolkien, so I'm playing this now. Alas, this whole idea of all classes using one power reserve is silly.

Why? Because it causes classes that don't require a stat to actually invest in it. Champions investing in Will for power is silly, and this should be stopped. In turn, minstrels or LMs investing in Might is also wrong, and Turbine must address this because it's causing classes to become hybrid breeds now. A lore-master would suddenly not become a lore-master now. Turbine must address this and stop players from benefitting from certain stats. Champions do not need Will or Fate, and there is ZERO reason for adding the stats to gear because then it undervalues the stats entirely.

Now you're asking this: so, how can champions get their power then?

This is where my suggestion comes in, I suggest that to top it all off, we remove the blue-power reserve from all non-magic classes and replace it with my suggested power-reserves that regenerate at a fast pace overtime, in combat and out of combat, and do not require potions, and do not require people crying for more power because it regenerates, regardless. It works exactly the same way as classes do on WoW, and don't you dare bring in anti-WoW sentiments here because frankly it's rude and hypocritical.

If all the good games use this system, and you love LOTRO so, why do you object to this idea? It DOES make a difference because its factor is based on the idea that classes should focus on fewer stats than all. This is what Turbine needs to address.

How is this idea complicated and not beneficial? It's perfectly simple, and if you read my posts carefully and understand the logic, then you wouldn't be posting comments expressing hate and dissatisfaction. I have read all your posts, and I think by your level of response you show an under-levelled amount of insight as to how you absorb what is on your screen. From what I've witnessed so far is that no one, apart from Yula, has given constructive feedback. You lot are giving points that are so BASIC and you're not even referring to my ideas. What you lot are saying is irrelevant.

Of course I know what morale is! I don't need you to remind me what it is.
Of course I know this game is not WoW! I don't need you to remind me.

The thing is, you lot are not even giving me feedback, and simply provoking me to respond by your rude comments.

Well One thing we dont know what class or Race you play. By the looks of it. you only been playing lotro for a few weeks. You came from a game like wow or just like wow. I dont think any of us care. But this game has different ways of playing. RP to Raid and fellowships or solo. I don't think you are listing to anyone but your self and making a game more complex is not going to help anyone


Now let me turn the tables on you.

Lets say I log onto WOW. Then gave the suggestions how lotro was played and wanted it on WOW or any game like wow. How would people react? They wold pritty much have the same reaction to me as other people on this forum as acted because they are already set in there ways. Then I would get the same comments. Like WOW is just fine the way it is and we don't want it to change.

Originally Posted by Mephistophelis

It's clear that people have not read my original post, how clever.¹

Energy and Rage regenerate at a fast rate in-combat and out-of-combat, you can never say you ran out of it, because it will regenerate eventually. Mana is just another word for power, so whomever uses it can kindly make a gesture. Morale and health are the same thing.² "We don't use magic"? What the hell? You are out of your mind, you have no idea what you're talking about! Rune-keepers, LMs etc use magic. Tricks/traps require energy because they're hard to assemble. Besides, traps don't require energy. We use the term 'energy' to describe any direct attack skill used to immobilise an opponent. I'm actually surprised that a lot of players here have an anti-WoW stance. You lot need to actually learn to appreciate the gameplay on WoW, and I've played it, but I like Tolkien, so I'm playing this now.³ Alas, this whole idea of all classes using one power reserve is silly.

Why? Because it causes classes that don't require a stat to actually invest in it.⁴ Champions investing in Will for power is silly, and this should be stopped. In turn, minstrels or LMs investing in Might is also wrong, and Turbine must address this because it's causing classes to become hybrid breeds now. A lore-master would suddenly not become a lore-master now. Turbine must address this and stop players from benefitting from certain stats. Champions do not need Will or Fate, and there is ZERO reason for adding the stats to gear because then it undervalues the stats entirely.

Now you're asking this: so, how can champions get their power then?

This is where my suggestion comes in, I suggest that to top it all off, we remove the blue-power reserve from all non-magic classes and replace it with my suggested power-reserves that regenerate at a fast pace overtime, in combat and out of combat, and do not require potions, and do not require people crying for more power because it regenerates, regardless. It works exactly the same way as classes do on WoW, and don't you dare bring in anti-WoW sentiments here because frankly it's rude and hypocritical.

If all the good games use this system, and you love LOTRO so, why do you object to this idea? It DOES make a difference because its factor is based on the idea that classes should focus on fewer stats than all. This is what Turbine needs to address. ⁵

How is this idea complicated and not beneficial? It's perfectly simple, and if you read my posts carefully and understand the logic, then you wouldn't be posting comments expressing hate and dissatisfaction. I have read all your posts, and I think by your level of response you show an under-levelled amount of insight as to how you absorb what is on your screen. From what I've witnessed so far is that no one, apart from Yula, has given constructive feedback. You lot are giving points that are so BASIC and you're not even referring to my ideas. What you lot are saying is irrelevant.⁶

Of course I know what morale is! I don't need you to remind me what it is.⁷
Of course I know this game is not WoW! I don't need you to remind me. ⁸

The thing is, you lot are not even giving me feedback, and simply provoking me to respond by your rude comments.

1. We read the post, just not all of us are agreeing with it.
2. Morale & health are not the same in this game since our characters do not die. They are defeated. It might seem the same, but it is a subtle difference from the "good games" you speak of.
3. I don't need to play WoW or any other game, even though I have played several games, to know that I appreciate the game mechanics of this game. While most players appreciate the lore of the game, self included, that does not mean we all want a cookie cutter mold applied to every game we play where only the storyline changes.
4. As others have clearly stated, power is universal and needed by all classes, therefore a player investing in the amount of power they require to do their tasks in an efficient manner is not forcing a class to invest in a useless attribute. It also acts as part of a balancing point. If I only need to invest in one attribute of my character that makes my class strong, then I can also become easily over-powered. There is a balance that needs to be struck in a character build that considers, the ability to sustain damage while giving damage and surviving the fight and in some cases providing support class abilities. Rune Keepers are often referred to as "Glass Cannons" because of this delicate balance that can make them DPS heavy and survivability light.
5. Because we are not looking for a clone of another game. Obviously, this is a "good game" as far as many of it's players are concerned and changing the systems for the sake of being a "me too" has little to no appeal to some of us responding to your thread.
6. We did read the post and responded in kind. We expressed our reasoning for not agreeing with the proposed concepts. Not sharing your opinion does not mean that we lack insight to the topic.
7. Yet you refer to Morale and Health as the same, clearly, in this game, the concept is not the same.
8. Yet you explain how we should adopt the mechanics of WoW to this game. Respectfully, you seem to wish to impose the game mechanics of WoW on a game that many of us are enjoying which is designed to be slightly different.

Originally Posted by Celt_Ainvar

Well One thing we dont know what class or Race you play. By the looks of it. you only been playing lotro for a few weeks. You came from a game like wow or just like wow. I dont think any of us care. But this game has different ways of playing. RP to Raid and fellowships or solo. I don't think you are listing to anyone but your self and making a game more complex is not going to help anyone


Now let me turn the tables on you.

Lets say I log onto WOW. Then gave the suggestions how lotro was played and wanted it on WOW or any game like wow. How would people react? They wold pritty much have the same reaction to me as other people on this forum as acted because they are already set in there ways. Then I would get the same comments. Like WOW is just fine the way it is and we don't want it to change.

I've been playing the game for five years, but I lost the opportunity to migrate my EU account, that is not the case though. From that first sentence, it's clear that you have not been reading my posts. The last game I played before LOTRO was actually Aion, and it uses mana for 'some' of the skills. Now that I think about it though, Turbine borrowed a lot of concepts from WoW, such as the Instance Finder. Did anyone object to that?

Well if you want to do Where what game got from which book or game. Then start by looking up Orcs, Elfs and mybe dwarfs and what you will see Hobbit, Lord of the Rings books. Which Tolkien wrote. While a university professor and old Text. (German, Celtic, Old English)

Then we look at board game like D&D board game which are Inspired by Tolkiens works and then some single rp player computer games. Then online game which lead to WOW and Lotro. Which both game got idea from Tolkien work. So yes I can understand they both borrowed concepts lotr and hobbit books and earlier games.

Answer this. If one of us log onto a game that setup how you wished with Mana, power and Rage and ask them to change the game setup. Just how lotro game is setup All Classes only have to use Power. How will they React to the question Mephistophelis?

My guess it will be sorry we like it the way it is. Because we are use to it and we dont care for it to change. Basicly the same thing we are trying to tell you.

Originally Posted by Mephistophelis

Turbine borrowed a lot of concepts from WoW, such as the Instance Finder. Did anyone object to that?

Yes, people did object to it. Loudly and repeatedly they objected to it.

/not signed

..and just for the sake of it I'm not going to explain why. Others have already done that several times.

It's laughable how people assume this is a petition thread, and hardly give any feedback. I think to conclude that my idea holds the whole basis of being implementable on LOTRO.

A lot of people HAVE been giving feedback, though. It seems to me that you haven't been answering the feedback and questions people have offered, but rather just belittled everything others have to say 'because they haven't read you posts carefully'. o.O (And for the record I always understood that /signed and /not signed is just part of the forum vocabulary meaning 'I (don't) agree with/like this idea', and a thread doesn't have to be a petition thread for these to be used.)

As for the suggestion, I don't really like it. I like how in LOTRO power means... well, power, and how it's the same for everyone. Making a change as you suggested - if I have understood it correctly (which might well be the case) - could cause bad feelings among the players because those with the fast-generating secondary powers like energy and rage would not run out, but those dealing with magic would, because mana doesn't regenerate that fast - therefore they would have harder time than other classes, and would have to use potions or blue-power regenerating skills. Wouldn't that be kinda... unfair?

Plus wouldn't that kind of change further discourage stranger (but sometimes very effective) builds by removing all sense in investing in whatever we happen to want to invest in? ? How is monotony better than striving for being different and going 'hybrid'? What's wrong with hybrids anyway - aren't we allowed to play our characters any way we want? Because that's kinda what you're making it sound, but I might also be reading you wrong.

Meph seems to be getting a lot of unwarranted hate here.

Let me first say that just because something exists in other games, doesn't mean we can't or shouldn't have it here.

LOTRO's initial power-only resource mechanic was probably implemented in an attempt to keep things simple. Unfortunately, what it caused was massive itemization problems (everyone after the same stats), and some mechanical issues (tanks running out of power.)

To answer some simple questions here: LM and Burg power restoration skills would restore the proper resources to the classes. Rage could easily be called something else so as not to harm lore. ICPR could and should be removed from energy and rage (mettle?) using classes' armor. To prevent CJ confusion, give the bar a colour not found in the wheel (purple, white, and orange come to mind). Secondary resources (fervour pips, focus) are just that: secondary. They supplement the primary resource as a way to create more interesting gameplay.

Originally Posted by Idahwaru

A lot of people HAVE been giving feedback, though. It seems to me that you haven't been answering the feedback and questions people have offered, but rather just belittled everything others have to say 'because they haven't read you posts carefully'. o.O (And for the record I always understood that /signed and /not signed is just part of the forum vocabulary meaning 'I (don't) agree with/like this idea', and a thread doesn't have to be a petition thread for these to be used.)

As for the suggestion, I don't really like it. I like how in LOTRO power means... well, power, and how it's the same for everyone. Making a change as you suggested - if I have understood it correctly (which might well be the case) - could cause bad feelings among the players because those with the fast-generating secondary powers like energy and rage would not run out, but those dealing with magic would, because mana doesn't regenerate that fast - therefore they would have harder time than other classes, and would have to use potions or blue-power regenerating skills. Wouldn't that be kinda... unfair?

Plus wouldn't that kind of change further discourage stranger (but sometimes very effective) builds by removing all sense in investing in whatever we happen to want to invest in? ? How is monotony better than striving for being different and going 'hybrid'? What's wrong with hybrids anyway - aren't we allowed to play our characters any way we want? Because that's kinda what you're making it sound, but I might also be reading you wrong.

You are right when you say that Rage and Energy will regenerate at a much faster rate, but to compensate the damage scalings will have to match with those of the mana-based classes. Although, as a fact, mana-based classes have always been at a greater advantage than melee classes since games were invented, obviously because the former can fight at range.

Originally Posted by Mephistophelis

I think to conclude that my idea holds the whole basis of being implementable on LOTRO.

Conclude all you like, doesn't change that the majority of the feedback (and it is feedback, despite your tantrums) is actually saying your idea is pointless.

I wish Mephistophelis would read the /sign and /unsign Posts. Because they have alot of points that Mephistophelis is not reading or understanding. The best idea. Listen to the people and learn from them. Then adjust your the idea. Please do not force a idea's that people do not want..

I will not put sign or unsign because Mepistophelis will not read them and they all have alot of good info.

Originally Posted by Mephistophelis

Hi guys, this is not a petition thread. I am not going to respond to players who are going to respond with "/signed" or "/unsigned" because that is not constructive at all. It simply tells me that the following players do not enjoy discussions, which is what forums are intended for.