Thread: Banner Overhaul

I'm starting to wonder if we're not at the point that we need to gut what all four of our banners do (Hope, Victory, War, Coldfells), and have stats that make interesting choices. All three banner traits would be removed, and replaced with three traits of the dev's choice (we're going to ignore what those may be for the time being).

Here's what I'm thinking:
War:
+20*level Physical Mastery (1500 at 75)
+20*level Tactical Mastery (1500 at 75)
+10*level Crit (750 at 75)
+15*level Finesse (1125 at 75)

Hope:
+12*level Morale (900 at 75)
+2*level ICMR (150 at 75)
+level/10 Incoming Healing (7.5 at 75)

Victory:
+20*level Physical Mitigation (1500 at 75)
+20*level Tactical Mitigation (1500 at 75)
+7*level Power (525 at 75)
+6*level ICPR (450 at 75)

Coldfells:
+1 Audacity (see: http://www.lotro.com/gameinfo/devdia...-pvmp-audacity)

To parallel the Coldfells Banner, the Warleaders should also get a similar banner so the audacity on both sides stays equal.

Looks pretty sensible to me. Not much to add, as I think you've covered the roles of the banners pretty well.

I like that ideas

How do you see the class traits affecting these?

Originally Posted by DavyMark

How do you see the class traits affecting these?

I could see it change the number modifiers from say 20 to 23 (just an example)

So perhaps when traited;
+ 3 to all modifiers
War:
+23*level Physical Mastery (1725 at 75)
+23*level Tactical Mastery (1725 at 75)
+12*level Crit (900 at 75)
+18*level Finesse (1350 at 75)

+3 to all modifiers
Hope:
+15*level Morale (1125 at 75)
+5*level ICMR (375 at 75)
+level/7 Incoming Healing (10.8 at 75)

+3 to all modifiers
Victory:
+23*level Physical Mitigation (1725 at 75)
+23*level Tactical Mitigation (1725 at 75)
+10*level Power (750 at 75)
+9*level ICPR (675 at 75)


Just my thoughts.

Although, it would be interesting to see the banners function without pure stats. What about the coldfells standard? The only banner that currently gives a banner buff of mitigation, if this was placed onto victory, how useful would the coldfells standard actually become? Audacity may not be entirely useful for rank 8+ players while it has a cap of Audacity rank 7.

Originally Posted by DavyMark

How do you see the class traits affecting these?

They don't - that's half the reason for the changes. Each banner is better than it's traited version as it appears now, and I would rather have 3 more traits that help the lines fulfill their roles tanking, healing, or DPSing, than have 3 wasted slots on the banners.

Originally Posted by Untg99

Although, it would be interesting to see the banners function without pure stats. What about the coldfells standard? The only banner that currently gives a banner buff of mitigation, if this was placed onto victory, how useful would the coldfells standard actually become? Audacity may not be entirely useful for rank 8+ players while it has a cap of Audacity rank 7.

Make it the only way to exceed the Audacity cap (so it's always useful), and give the Creeps a similar banner on the WLs.

Originally Posted by Almagnus1

... I would rather have 3 more traits that help the lines fulfill their roles tanking, healing, or DPSing, than have 3 wasted slots on the banners.

I agree with you on that. I was just curious what you had thought about that.

Almagnus1, you have been simply streaming out good ideas latley. Thank you for that.

Originally Posted by Almagnus1

I'm starting to wonder if we're not at the point that we need to gut what all four of our banners do (Hope, Victory, War, Coldfells), and have stats that make interesting choices. All three banner traits would be removed, and replaced with three traits of the dev's choice (we're going to ignore what those may be for the time being).

Here's what I'm thinking:
War:
+20*level Physical Mastery (1500 at 75)
+20*level Tactical Mastery (1500 at 75)
+10*level Crit (750 at 75)
+15*level Finesse (1125 at 75)

Hope:
+12*level Morale (900 at 75)
+2*level ICMR (150 at 75)
+level/10 Incoming Healing (7.5 at 75)

Victory:
+20*level Physical Mitigation (1500 at 75)
+20*level Tactical Mitigation (1500 at 75)
+7*level Power (525 at 75)
+6*level ICPR (450 at 75)

Coldfells:
+1 Audacity (see: http://www.lotro.com/gameinfo/devdia...-pvmp-audacity)

To parallel the Coldfells Banner, the Warleaders should also get a similar banner so the audacity on both sides stays equal.

My concern here is that the Hope banner would likely be overshadowed by the Victory banner. I think Victory's 1500 physical and tactical mitigation would simply overwhelm Hope's 900 morale cushion and 7.5% incoming healing buff. I'm not sure how to fix that. Maybe just boosting the levels, or perhaps building back in the hope buff, but allowing it to stack with tokens.

Originally Posted by SGWB

My concern here is that the Hope banner would likely be overshadowed by the Victory banner. I think Victory's 1500 physical and tactical mitigation would simply overwhelm Hope's 900 morale cushion and 7.5% incoming healing buff. I'm not sure how to fix that. Maybe just boosting the levels, or perhaps building back in the hope buff, but allowing it to stack with tokens.

I like the +1 stacking hope, but wasn't sure if that'd make it OP compared to the rest.

I do agree that it is the weakest of all the suggested =/

I like the ideas so I'll not toy with them, but I'll give something else to think. Banners can also give us self buffs only on equip, so they can buff captain only, basically war->dps, hope -> healing, victory -> tanking. This could help boost their usefulness furthermore, while keeping balance. Now they all give us physical mastery & morale, war 5% damage, victory max power. We could increase say: damage on war, crit rating, crit multiplier. Or crit defense, incoming healing, b/p/e ratings on victory. Surely this would diminish the usefulness of heralds even more, but I'd be more than okay even with removing them as they doesn't feel like part of captain class anyways.

I really like this thread. I feel that banners are one of the integral parts of the captain class. I also yearn for a day when the herald is also an integral part. I also truly believe that the two could be consolidated without weakening or overpowering the class.
This is how I see this. The stats to the captain and fellowship for each banner stay consistent with what they are now. But when you have the herald carry a different banner, the herald's function changes.

War herald has a DPS role. His skills are a single target skill, an aoe skill and an armour rend type skill.

Hope herald has a healing roll. They have an ICMR aura of 15m. His skills are an aoe HOT, an incoming healing buff for the captain, and a small fellowship wide mitigation buff.

Victory herald has an off tank roll. They have an ICPR aura of 15m. Their target is based on the captain's "brother" target. The protect the healer in song-brother, get 2nd aggro for the shield brother, and protect the blade-brother from pulling aggro. They do minor dps and rely mostly on taunts. Their skills are a single target force taunt, an aoe aggro skill similar to the protector's whirl of fury, and a skill similar to In Harm's Way.

The class traits would be revamped like this:

LtC trait increases war herald's physical mastery and melee crit.
Also a trait to turn your war herald into a war herald archer, lowers their armour and morale (like going from heavy to medium armour), but increase their dps output. (basically like changing the herald from a champ to a hunter) Maybe changing their aoe skill to a snare type skill as well.

HoH trait would increase the outgoing healing of the herald and increasing the aura to 20m.

LoM trait would increase the ICPR and the range of the aura to 20m. Also the IHW would increase the % of damage absorbed by the herald, but mitigate some of what the herald actually takes.

The captain would be able to change the banner the herald is carrying in combat, but perhaps the skill would have a long induction like 30 seconds or more, to dissuade in-combat switching unless it was absolutely necessary.

There also would continue to be the herald consumables that exist now. Those could be tweaked around the functions of the new heralds.

Just throwing out some ideas that have been running around in my head. Let me know what you guys think.

Originally Posted by DavyMark

I really like this thread. I feel that banners are one of the integral parts of the captain class. I also yearn for a day when the herald is also an integral part. I also truly believe that the two could be consolidated without weakening or overpowering the class.
This is how I see this. The stats to the captain and fellowship for each banner stay consistent with what they are now. But when you have the herald carry a different banner, the herald's function changes.

War herald has a DPS role. His skills are a single target skill, an aoe skill and an armour rend type skill.

Hope herald has a healing roll. They have an ICMR aura of 15m. His skills are an aoe HOT, an incoming healing buff for the captain, and a small fellowship wide mitigation buff.

Victory herald has an off tank roll. They have an ICPR aura of 15m. Their target is based on the captain's "brother" target. The protect the healer in song-brother, get 2nd aggro for the shield brother, and protect the blade-brother from pulling aggro. They do minor dps and rely mostly on taunts. Their skills are a single target force taunt, an aoe aggro skill similar to the protector's whirl of fury, and a skill similar to In Harm's Way.

The class traits would be revamped like this:

LtC trait increases war herald's physical mastery and melee crit.
Also a trait to turn your war herald into a war herald archer, lowers their armour and morale (like going from heavy to medium armour), but increase their dps output. (basically like changing the herald from a champ to a hunter) Maybe changing their aoe skill to a snare type skill as well.

HoH trait would increase the outgoing healing of the herald and increasing the aura to 20m.

LoM trait would increase the ICPR and the range of the aura to 20m. Also the IHW would increase the % of damage absorbed by the herald, but mitigate some of what the herald actually takes.

The captain would be able to change the banner the herald is carrying in combat, but perhaps the skill would have a long induction like 30 seconds or more, to dissuade in-combat switching unless it was absolutely necessary.

There also would continue to be the herald consumables that exist now. Those could be tweaked around the functions of the new heralds.

Just throwing out some ideas that have been running around in my head. Let me know what you guys think.

If I understand this suggestion, basically your asking for the heralds to have their roles made a bit more pronounced, which I wholeheartedly agree withy. They need to have more differences from each other. And the concept of using the banner traits to further imporve that traitline's role for a Herald is a good idea. That part could be expanded so so that if you have the red-trait line's banner trait slotted, no matter which herald/archer you use it gains a buff that helps DPS (either of itself or the group), likewise the blue-trait line would give the herald/archer being used a buff that helps with healing, and the yellow-line banner trait would give whatever herald/archer being used a buff that helps with survival/tanking (or power restoration, which tends to help people survive/tank anyways.)

A agree that is a good idea.

Also I strongly suggest that everyone should take a look at this thread here, in which the Devs are asking for feedback about the classes, so we can give our feedback about Captains to them, since they will definitely be reading that thread. I have already posted in that thread, and one of my suggestions is actually rather close to your idea. I'm glad I'm not the only person who thinks the Heralds need to stand out in their different roles more, just like the Lore-master pets do.