Thread: If Tolkien Played LOTRO

Originally Posted by josh13333

Why would he hate this? This game has got thousands of people to read his work. His son is the one who seems to hate modern times, not Tolkien himself.

Do you have a source for that?

I'm currently reading a biography of the Inklings, and so far, I'm getting the impression that Tolkien wouldn't be too excited about all this.

Originally Posted by Radhruin_EU

Here's a case in point: Riddle. The Burglar can put the whammy on targets from 20m away by... what, exactly? Since when do riddles make people go catatonic? It's a mez, supposedly without magic; that's a cop-out, though, leaving it as an unexplained pseudo-magical effect. The equivalent in WoW is the Rogue's Blind ability, which is supposed to work by the rather more plausible means of throwing something nasty in the target's eyes (originally it required a consumable, 'Blinding Powder', which was a poison made from a herb). So what's going on there, then? Something in WoW is more plausible than something in LOTRO? Shouldn't it should always be the other way around?

I don't know how it works, but I consider Riddling sentients (applying it to Beasts is convenient but seems silly) to be quite Lore-appropriate. Bilbo *did* use riddles to keep Gollum from attacking him. I doubt that would work in our world, so indeed, I can't explain it - but apparently, it works in Middle-Earth.

It *is* a stretch that this technique could be used even in the middle of battle (when your opponent might not even hear you), but I still think of the Riddle skill as a nice nod to the lore.

Originally Posted by Domine

You know, with the exception of the parts I emphasized in bold, you just described almost every book, movie, or song in existence... including the Hobbit and Lord of the Rings.

Sorry, you've taken that out of context. I was referring specifically to how this game and those like it differ greatly from their distant pen-and-paper ancestors. Modern theme-park style MMOs are deliberately limited in order to give you a streamlined experience with no meaningful choices.

Couple of you guys got it wrong...

Tolkien wouldn't hate this game, although admittedly he would view Turbine's Free to Play model, and increasing corporate greed similar to Saruman's scrounging of the shire.

But yeah he would approach all the lore issues in this game as a question whether his translation was correct. Have you guys read his letters? Such as solving the problem of Glorfindel? No doubt Tolkien will write more long letters about Rogmuls, Cave Claws, Thaurlach, Draigoch, Khamul, Thorog, Saruman's Ring, Mordirith (although I admit that was a good one), working out and solving them like Glorfindel's.

That said, he would be a Hobbit no doubt, farming pipeweed and cooking his own meals and brewing beers, dunno what class actually.

Or Elf Scholar Guardian.

Originally Posted by Annariel

I don't know how it works, but I consider Riddling sentients (applying it to Beasts is convenient but seems silly) to be quite Lore-appropriate. Bilbo *did* use riddles to keep Gollum from attacking him. I doubt that would work in our world, so indeed, I can't explain it - but apparently, it works in Middle-Earth.

Sorry, what? It was Gollum's idea to play the riddle game; what had put him off attacking was that Bilbo was armed. If he hadn't been, Gollum would have jumped on him and throttled him.

It *is* a stretch that this technique could be used even in the middle of battle (when your opponent might not even hear you), but I still think of the Riddle skill as a nice nod to the lore.

There is no 'technique'. It's just an ancient game that Bilbo and Gollum chose to play. When you are asked riddles in the game, that's a nod to the lore but I'm afraid the skill is not. Quite the reverse.

I don't think Tolkien would actually play this game.

He spend 40 years constantly re-inventing, re-writing, re-phrasing his work, he would be too much limited by the rigid rules a computer game places on the player.
He is playing the mind game, similar to what Illuvatar does, though instead of singing, he is imagining and writing the world with all there is.

I don't think he even would get crazy about the runekeepers. there are enough examples like the creation of the orcs or the balrogs, which changed other the time. He would ponder the idea, and if he liked it, perhaps adapt his world to this new idea, and try to integrate it. Same thing with all Turbine created around his lore: It would be considered, pondered over, and either sieved out, or written into his world.

Originally Posted by Rapunzel666

I don't think Tolkien would actually play this game.

The man was something of a technophobe, and so hardly the sort one might expect to take gleefully to new technology. (And still less the sort whom one might expect to take to computer games).

He spend 40 years constantly re-inventing, re-writing, re-phrasing his work, he would be too much limited by the rigid rules a computer game places on the player.

Especially this style of game, which is what I was getting at earlier.

He is playing the mind game, similar to what Illuvatar does, though instead of singing, he is imagining and writing the world with all there is.

Agreed. Tolkien called creative story-telling 'secondary creation', a kind of virtual world-building. In the tales, the world itself was framed as a hugely elaborate story in the form of music, which Iluvatar then took and showed to the Ainur as a vision. He then made real in a single act of primary or 'true' creation.

I don't think he even would get crazy about the runekeepers. there are enough examples like the creation of the orcs or the balrogs, which changed other the time. He would ponder the idea, and if he liked it, perhaps adapt his world to this new idea, and try to integrate it. Same thing with all Turbine created around his lore: It would be considered, pondered over, and either sieved out, or written into his world.

There are flaws in that idea, as regards the RK:

- there's nothing wrong with the idea of someone with power being able to put 'magical' force behind their words, since that's already in there, but there's a grave problem with what the game actually does with it. It's shown as battle-magic, as if someone with that power has no need of physical weapons, and that's way out of keeping with how magic is shown in his work.

- with all the imagery you could put into words, why stick to fire, frost and lightning? The only answer there lies in game conventions: players are accustomed to powerful elemental mages, so something that looks and sounds like one must therefore be provided lest mage fans be left dissatisfied. Story-telling has no need to be a slave to such conventions.

- he obviously only intended a few very powerful beings to be able to produce direct effects on the spur of the moment by means of such power. That would leave out Dwarves and all but the most powerful of Elves. Again, that is a clash between story-telling and game conventions, where players would be dissatisfied if only NPCs could wield powerful magic.

- lightning from the heavens is traditional. Lightning from someone's fingertips is from comic-books. And in the books, only beings of near-godlike power like Maiar could command such power.

- the idea of being able to effectively choose someone's fate (the 'you over there, I can see you're going to be struck down by lightning so I'm going to make that happen' thing) is a non-starter. Trying to play games with fate was most unwise, Sauron tried that once and got nothing but dog-bites for his trouble

There are a great many things in the game that are like that because they represent a developer's thinking, rather than a story-teller's thinking. Saying that everything would be considered and pondered over is failing to take due account of that. Just as not everything from the books will work in a game, not everything from the game would work in a story.


P.S. Another modern gaming convention, the way the game doesn't discriminate between player-character races and backgrounds even where it should, means that (for example) the Elves of Lorien will kill fellow Elves, and that hobbits can do all manner of entirely un-hobbitlike things. Player-characters can even bake their own lembas. I leave it to your imagination what Tolkien would make of that, if he were here to see it.

I think he would have been fascinated by the portrayal of his world in the game (and the films as well). However I think he was far too involved in thinking and writing about this world which would preclude him from playing this game. I could definitely see him writing to Turbine with advice about place names, locations, clothing styles, architecture etc. Maybe he would even write a small story for the game.

I do think he would be happy with Tom Bombadill in the game. The character was an insert to honor his children and the character is just pure love. It comes across in this game.

Originally Posted by Radhruin_EU

Sorry, what? It was Gollum's idea to play the riddle game; what had put him off attacking was that Bilbo was armed. If he hadn't been, Gollum would have jumped on him and throttled him.


There is no 'technique'. It's just an ancient game that Bilbo and Gollum chose to play. When you are asked riddles in the game, that's a nod to the lore but I'm afraid the skill is not. Quite the reverse.

Okay, I had to get out my copy of The Hobbit to check this one...

You're right that the riddles were Gollum's initiative, though when he first sees Bilbo, he is *not* about to jump on him and throttle him - 'cause he's not hungry. The riddles are meant to buy him some time: "He was anxious to appear friendly, at any rate for the moment, and until he found out more about the sword and the hobbit, whether he was quite alone really, whether he was good to eat, and whether Gollum was really hungry. Riddles were all he could think off."

So I don't think it's really a game, and Bilbo didn't have much of a choice but to play... It's a tactic.

Originally Posted by Dunford

I know, Tolkien may very well not have approved of an online game fashioned after Middle-earth but if he did play...

What class/race do you think he would pick?

I vote for Man Champion. It's the closest thing IMO to Beren.

Champion??? Ha, he would be a Guardian... ooopppsss I am posting on my Champion toon, oh heck yeah, he would be a Champion, nothing to see here, move along

I'd bet he'd either play a hobbit burg or an elf lore-master. I think he would be very pleased with the Shire and Goblin-Town but incredibly disappointed by the lack of activity in Rivendell and all the dwarf camps in Moria.

Originally Posted by Annariel

Okay, I had to get out my copy of The Hobbit to check this one...

You're right that the riddles were Gollum's initiative, though when he first sees Bilbo, he is *not* about to jump on him and throttle him - 'cause he's not hungry.

He was hardly thinking benevolent thoughts about Bilbo. If you recall, after a while he does get hungry (as well as being angry at the way Bilbo had cheated at the riddle game) and his plan then was to go and get the Ring, put it on, and then do Bilbo in. "It won't see us, will it, my precious? No, it won't see us, and its nasty little sword will be useless, yes quite." Finding the Ring gone, he flew into a murderous rage and would certainly have tried to throttle Bilbo if he'd caught him.

So, what has this got to do with the 'magic' Riddle skill in the game? The riddles in that scene are just that, riddles. Gollum chose to play the game, and the only tricksy thing Bilbo did was to cheat.