Thread: About to give up! Please save my warden!

I know the class has issues, and there is hope they will be fixed in U6. But that's several weeks off and i'd like to do something between now and then. Plus i'm worried EVERYONE will be playing warden in U6 making it nearly impossible to find spot in a group unless you're the best geared warden of the bunch.

SOOO Here are my troubles that I hope I can get some help with:

1) How the heck does warden get gear? I say this because you need to tank 3 mans to get gear. But you need that gear to tank 3 mans it seems? I've attempted a few 3 mans, I hold aggro just fine for the most part but, I die. Which brings to 2nd question

2) How do you hold threat, and maintain the BPE buffs? I can't start fight with BPE buffing as I won't have threat. If I start with threat abilities I don't have BPE up so i'm taking more damage. And I feel like if I try to switch to BPE I'll lose threat. And I assume without BPE buffs I'm taking extra damage which is why i'm dying...

3) This will hopefully be answered above but, What gambits for what?

War Cry = Good fast AOE Threat right at start of pull... BUT doesn't hold it long. Goad is traited so it hits like 6 or so targets? I usually pop that off 2nd. 31 Precise Blow seems to be a good spammable single target threat. I use this to run around and pull anything that gets lose after warcry and goad.

At this point, I'd expect BPE buffing is in order, but if i'm not constantly running around spamming threat abilities ppl are pulling stuff off me.


What really has me worried about playing warden as a tank is that we have to use limited short duration buffs to bring our tanking up to what it should be... unbuffed we're less tanky. So, we start off having to waste time becoming a tank and not building threat.



4) And this is another big one... Power. I seem to have massive power issues. I ran out multiple times doing a boss in a 3 man earlier today. Without power, I can't use BPE buffs and I can't use threat abilities or self healing... I'm not great at using mastery in my tanking gambits yet (I'll work on that) but even still power would be an issue...

Originally Posted by Painlezz

1) How the heck does warden get gear? I say this because you need to tank 3 mans to get gear. But you need that gear to tank 3 mans it seems? I've attempted a few 3 mans, I hold aggro just fine for the most part but, I die. Which brings to 2nd question

Skraids are also a way to get gear. They are easy/ you have alot of ppl backing you up/ they are fast.

Originally Posted by Painlezz

2) How do you hold threat, and maintain the BPE buffs? I can't start fight with BPE buffing as I won't have threat. If I start with threat abilities I don't have BPE up so i'm taking more damage. And I feel like if I try to switch to BPE I'll lose threat. And I assume without BPE buffs I'm taking extra damage which is why i'm dying...

Step one- build and leach as much aggro as you can. Make sure your healer knows you will need extra attention for this phase esp if your undergeared.
Step two- start rolling out heals and avoidance buffs
Step three- if you lose aggro to anything, use aggression.
Step four- Maintain conviction/Warcry/DoW/EoB for threat+defense
Step five- Keep building small amounts of threat w PB and aggression when you need big threat boosts.
Step six- Expect nothing to follow a step by step program. Be ready to change what your doing immediately as fits the situation.

Originally Posted by Painlezz

3) This will hopefully be answered above but, What gambits for what?

I tried to answer this above.

Originally Posted by Painlezz

4) And this is another big one... Power. I seem to have massive power issues. I ran out multiple times doing a boss in a 3 man earlier today. Without power, I can't use BPE buffs and I can't use threat abilities or self healing... I'm not great at using mastery in my tanking gambits yet (I'll work on that) but even still power would be an issue...

Power isnt too bad once you gear up. Its just gonna be a pain while your gearing. Bring a cappy or a LM to help. Bring power pots. Run in conservation for power regen. The higher your icpr is the less youll see yourself having power issues.

Originally Posted by Painlezz

I know the class has issues, and there is hope they will be fixed in U6. But that's several weeks off and i'd like to do something between now and then. Plus i'm worried EVERYONE will be playing warden in U6 making it nearly impossible to find spot in a group unless you're the best geared warden of the bunch.

SOOO Here are my troubles that I hope I can get some help with:

1) How the heck does warden get gear? I say this because you need to tank 3 mans to get gear. But you need that gear to tank 3 mans it seems? I've attempted a few 3 mans, I hold aggro just fine for the most part but, I die. Which brings to 2nd question

2) How do you hold threat, and maintain the BPE buffs? I can't start fight with BPE buffing as I won't have threat. If I start with threat abilities I don't have BPE up so i'm taking more damage. And I feel like if I try to switch to BPE I'll lose threat. And I assume without BPE buffs I'm taking extra damage which is why i'm dying...

3) This will hopefully be answered above but, What gambits for what?

War Cry = Good fast AOE Threat right at start of pull... BUT doesn't hold it long. Goad is traited so it hits like 6 or so targets? I usually pop that off 2nd. 31 Precise Blow seems to be a good spammable single target threat. I use this to run around and pull anything that gets lose after warcry and goad.

At this point, I'd expect BPE buffing is in order, but if i'm not constantly running around spamming threat abilities ppl are pulling stuff off me.


What really has me worried about playing warden as a tank is that we have to use limited short duration buffs to bring our tanking up to what it should be... unbuffed we're less tanky. So, we start off having to waste time becoming a tank and not building threat.



4) And this is another big one... Power. I seem to have massive power issues. I ran out multiple times doing a boss in a 3 man earlier today. Without power, I can't use BPE buffs and I can't use threat abilities or self healing... I'm not great at using mastery in my tanking gambits yet (I'll work on that) but even still power would be an issue...

1=Crafted jewellery,cloak, reputation shield from theodreds and some others. You can also pug skirmish raids as off tank or random since your saying your having a hard time. Also t1 isen instances with kin members

2=You do not need to do both at the same time. Focus on threat and once you have it, focus more on buffs. Use the new skills like aggression and battle memory to aid you. If you are dying quick its not because your not using your buffs but the reason could be lots of things like your build, healing etc

3=Everyone has their own methods on gambits. The great thing about our class there is no one great way of doing things. A simple rotation against multiple mobs is WC via mastery, EOB via mastery, aggression via Fist,Shield, Spear and fist mastery. Next you can do whatever you want. If you want more aggro u can add aggression onto battle memory and if you want buffs simple use a buff. After this rotation from aggression and multiple buffs.

4=Try getting your ICPR 1500+ and you should notice a difference. Having 2 store settings may help because it gives +125 ICPR each. I dont know your gear and stats so cannot comment more. On a safe note stack ICPR or fate food

I know the class has issues, and there is hope they will be fixed in U6. But that's several weeks off and i'd like to do something between now and then. Plus i'm worried EVERYONE will be playing warden in U6 making it nearly impossible to find spot in a group unless you're the best geared warden of the bunch.

Lol probably, but about 50% of them will be gone after a week, and after 2 weeks it will be mostly the old crew again is my guess.

1) How the heck does warden get gear? I say this because you need to tank 3 mans to get gear. But you need that gear to tank 3 mans it seems? I've attempted a few 3 mans, I hold aggro just fine for the most part but, I die. Which brings to 2nd question

First of all, skirmish raids are an excellent way to get some gear (I got some awesome pants that I still use) and there are lots of great jewelery drops from skirm raids. Secondly, if gear is an issue for you, I would recommend buying some of the purple set gear. It's fairly cheap considering how much it costs to get the teal stuff and has pretty respectable stats, the purple set will just make your life a bit easier while you grind for the really good stuff. Also, look at the crafted stuff and the rep stuff, a lot of that is very good as well. Between all of that you should be able to get a pretty strong build going.

There is also some nice jewelery and the rank 8 shield from the moors if you pvp often.

2) How do you hold threat, and maintain the BPE buffs? I can't start fight with BPE buffing as I won't have threat. If I start with threat abilities I don't have BPE up so i'm taking more damage. And I feel like if I try to switch to BPE I'll lose threat. And I assume without BPE buffs I'm taking extra damage which is why i'm dying...

Yes you will, thankfully that is being addressed in update 6 via Battle Preparations. However, you have a healer, have them do their job. In the meantime you can mitigate this issue by securing aggro as fast as you can. I generally open with either Pb, War Cry, or Goad depending on how many enemies are present. After that I either PB the target the dps is on, or use Exultation of Battle if there are a lot of opponents around.

You now have some nice threat, but not quite enough. If you have a champ in your group securing your lead is easy: use a back-to-back Aggression and you'll be good for a long while. If not, throw out conviction and get on the DPS's target; your AOE threat skills will keep the rest of them on you.

I know this is a lot of reading, but the whole process only takes about 5 seconds. After those 5 seconds, put up Shield Mastery, A Dance of War, and use Battle Memory with Wall of Steel. You now have 4 buffs up. At this point what you do is up to you, but I generally get 2-3 HoT's (Restoration, Celebration of Skill, and Persevere because it's fast and cheap, mind you this is not counting Conviction which is always up) up before I build a little more threat or/and reapply Wall of Steel.

If you want you can also throw out Desolation. It builds decent threat but also the random fear can reduce the damage you take. Obviously this is more effective when up against a pew powerful foes than against tons of weak ones.

3) This will hopefully be answered above but, What gambits for what?

All I'll add here is: Don't worry about your DPS. DPS is not your job. It's your job to be as sturdy as possible, heck if you do your job well enough your healer can DPS.

Aka, besides Wall of Steel, don't worry about spear gambits.

War Cry = Good fast AOE Threat right at start of pull... BUT doesn't hold it long. Goad is traited so it hits like 6 or so targets? I usually pop that off 2nd. 31 Precise Blow seems to be a good spammable single target threat. I use this to run around and pull anything that gets lose after warcry and goad.

You should not be relying exclusively on Goad and War Cry to hold aggro. I like to think of these two gambits as background gambits, they help you keep the lead once you have it, but alone will not be enough to get it. Precise Blow is a good one, but if you have tons of opponents it's a waste to tab target everything to tab it with Precise Blow, use this gambit on your target and/or the main DPS target.

What really has me worried about playing warden as a tank is that we have to use limited short duration buffs to bring our tanking up to what it should be... unbuffed we're less tanky. So, we start off having to waste time becoming a tank and not building threat.

True this, but it also sounds like you are spending too much time building threat in the first place. If necessary you can mitigate the incoming damage you are taking in the beginning by kiting a little. Even just backing away from the mobs for those first few seconds can substantially reduce your incoming damage. It also keeps champs from being stupid, pulling early, and squishing.

Also, try to keep the action going. When you finish one pull, move quickly to the next while your buffs are still up. Unless your group is in dire need of a break, this will help noticeably. You can also store Shield mastery into Battle Memory and pop it out of the fight, this makes it a bit more likely that you will have at least one buff on you with the start of the next fight.

4) And this is another big one... Power. I seem to have massive power issues. I ran out multiple times doing a boss in a 3 man earlier today. Without power, I can't use BPE buffs and I can't use threat abilities or self healing... I'm not great at using mastery in my tanking gambits yet (I'll work on that) but even still power would be an issue...

Masteries are an excellent converter of power to skills, they tend to make you burn out faster, but they let you do much more with what power you do have. If you are running low on power I have some questions:

1- Are you in Conservation?
2- Do you have the legacy making Conservation regenerate more power?
3- How much total power do you have? I have like 3.2k, but that is NOT intentional, and is massive overkill... all of the gear I use just seems to come with +power... Shoot for about 2.5k-ish.
4- Consider equiping Legendary Relics that come with ICPR or finding gear with ICPR boosts on it.
5- Watch what gambits you use. Spamming Fist gambits is the best way to waste power that I know of, and this is probably your issue. Once you have your threat lead, relax and let Conviction with an occasional War Cry be your primary aggro generator.

Mate don't worry ,just make friends with a healer and a champ and make your own adventures!
Try those 3 man's anyway...we all started there and wiped many times before we got a hang of it.

My normal make up in the 3 mans for Isen is: Warden(me), champion(DPS) and Captain(healer). All the smaller pulls I start out with goad, opens my battle memory and gives me a little threat to start off with, then I do a straight agression from there, normally the champ has got at least 1 mob on him from massive DPS, this allows me to use whatever I need to after about 5 seconds. If the champ pulls threat off me before it dies, you have an agression in battle memory to pull it right back.

For the boss's I normaly throw out a ambush to start with, surety of death as I run up, goad, agression then get my buffs up, use the agression, use conviction and some self heals, goad then agression(battle memory again) buffs......continues on unless something happens and I need to break my cycle.

Agression is awesome, I still use conviction when it is up just to make the healers life a little easier. The skirmish raids(skraids) as mentioned are another great way to get jewls and gear too. Best part of skraids is: normally having 12 people in makes them super easy, only issue I have run into is a DPS in the other half puling agro or the guard trying to be awesome and force taunt to keep the AOE guys like pounders or rooks on him and everyone else.

I agree that the opening can be tricky because you do not have a chance to start off with your buffs or heals. In my personally opinion and build this is why I try to have a high natural BPE.

All good recommendations above, and as you see each warden does things a little differently. Getting gear to start out with cap content is a matter of getting sigils for some crafted, getting some medallions and seals for the lower quality raid armour (that are not raid gated) at Galtrev and the Ox Clan camp, getting some rep jewellry from the Riders rep trader.

Work on getting your morale up to at least 9k+ to minimize one-shot odds, and then build up from there.

On holding threat, we now are the best class in the game for establishing and holding aggro. This is a switch from pre-ROI when it took us much longer to build up steam. As others have noted, it is a dance between initial aggro to self buffs to self heals. There's no perfect rotation and it will often be very situational.

For multi-mobs I tend to start with EOB then either war cry or goad (to set up battle memory), followed by aggression (and another aggression if goad is used and the situation seems to need it). For almost all circumstances this is plenty and only needs occasional aggro/leach touch ups for the rest of the battle. I follow that with one or two of our 4 main self buffs followed by either an aggro refresh or some self heals, and it is then pretty much rotating through gambits as needed. Try to keep all four self-buffs up if you can. Single mob fights are simple. Ambush, pb, aggression, and maybe another pb or aggression. you've got him and you aren't going to lose him.

That leads to another issue: consumables. Your power problems are curious as before ROI the warden class was infamous for our power management problems. We could survive anything if we had power, but could survive nothing without it. Now we rarely run out of power but survival can be the issue. When in instances I pretty much always have battle lore scrolls going along with +might food (you might prefer +vit food with low morale), and I eat some good icpr/icmr/ocpr/ocmr cooked food before going into tough fights. Some wardens even pop hope tokens too as a matter of course for the small +morale boost it gives. And keep a good supply of morale and power pots on hand and use them when you need them. They are cheap and easy to get.

Agree what others have said. After Update 6 wardens will probably be a new flavour of the month, like minis were after Isen came out. But that will settle down and most of them won't make it to cap. ...and even if they do, it will probably only replenish the devestation in the ranks of high-level wardens that has taken place in the months since ROI came out.

Usually when one gets to cap there is a huge amount of back-filling to do. I had to do that recently with the champ I leveled up after ROI. He's only now at the place where I feel really comfortable with him, and he still has a ways to go. End game gearing, traiting, LI building, etc. seems tougher on the warden because those weaknesses show more on us, I think, because as a tank we're always being pounded on if we're doing our job right.

But we've all been where you are now. Hang in there and you'll get through it too.

I think the biggest problem is population and players in the game or this server...

Everyone at this point seems to be running T2 and higher end instances. I've only attempted a single 3 man so far (with my Kin) but the RK healer was not heal speced... top that off with Warden class that has tanking issues, a new warden that has bad gear, and a new warden that isn't fully experienced with years of tanking practice (on warden)...

I guess I keep giving it a few more tries and hopefully find some newer players who aren't expecting to steam roll these isntances with full raid gear.

lol easeys think you can tank is dracko in the moment gating dracko armor and clock then go for skermis super item drop ther specale in 12 skermis then orthenc what is the dem big dill with the warden thos days all cring lake a babey stop it we are NOT BRCKEN CLASE EVRE 1 THINKS SO BUT WE ARE IT SO NOT onle what update 6 will make is we will be the strongest class in the dem ####ing game even I ken still kill cheps and gardes and runkiper onle 2 clasis I can´t kill now is burgler and barde and now I lake to tank orthenc in t2 I gess I will be the forst warden in the dem game to do that and I tolking abut solo tanking kalback lake gards do stope lating me prufing this clase healp me to pruf it see how strong it is comon cring babes I hate starde tanking lake we do it best

You definately want to run these instances as you gear up and learn with people you know, Kinship, or people who understand. No one started off being able to do everything from the word go. The new 3 mans can be tricky as you learn them too. Library and School level to 75, they will give a few medallions and marks still, some ok loot and can help you iron out the rotations and skills you are using.

But definately run with people who arent going to scream if someone dies or if you "lose" a challenge or something.

Definitely agreed. I taught a champ friend how to tank (I have champ alts), and he's good enough to do instances with me now in return. We usually drag along a guardian friend for three mans - weird, but it works!

I agree with everyone else on gear - crafted and rep is easy to start out with and certainly not shabby. And don't forget to bring food, scrolls, pots (including wound/fear/disease/poison), and hope tokens!

In small instances (the kind that aren't likely to kill you and have a lot of non-lethal to wardens trash, but could kill your healer or squishies), JoDF can be your best friend, too.

Originally Posted by Painlezz

I think the biggest problem is population and players in the game or this server...

Everyone at this point seems to be running T2 and higher end instances. I've only attempted a single 3 man so far (with my Kin) but the RK healer was not heal speced... top that off with Warden class that has tanking issues, a new warden that has bad gear, and a new warden that isn't fully experienced with years of tanking practice (on warden)...

I guess I keep giving it a few more tries and hopefully find some newer players who aren't expecting to steam roll these isntances with full raid gear.

Ask the RK to trait heals next time. Im looking at your mylotro page at your gear/stats and one thing that stood out immediately was mitigation. You need to get them alot higher however you can. Also your morale is pretty low. Morale is a good padding against spike damage that you will be taking, and you will cut down on spikes significantly w your mitigation capped.
Priority one- Mitigation
Priority two- Gear/morale

Back on January 26, 2012, Painlezz posted a question on the Warden forums asking whether or not he should role a warden. He obviously did because there were several more posts to follow. On February 20th he has a new post wanting help as a new level 75 Warden.

My Question to Painlezz is...how the heck did you mange to level up your toon up to cap in less than a month? I am not asking this to be a troll, I would seriously like some tips on leveling so quickly. I have been playing my warden for about a year and I am only at level 59. Maybe you don't do any crafting, maybe your not in a kin and aren't helping other kinmates with quests, and maybe your not into the story line and take the time to read it. All of which I know these things have slowed me down, which I am totally OK with, but there has got to be something I am missing as to why some people can level there toons so fast.

Originally Posted by xrayvisionnw

Back on January 26, 2012, Painlezz posted a question on the Warden forums asking whether or not he should role a warden. He obviously did because there were several more posts to follow. On February 20th he has a new post wanting help as a new level 75 Warden.

My Question to Painlezz is...how the heck did you mange to level up your toon up to cap in less than a month? I am not asking this to be a troll, I would seriously like some tips on leveling so quickly. I have been playing my warden for about a year and I am only at level 59. Maybe you don't do any crafting, maybe your not in a kin and aren't helping other kinmates with quests, and maybe your not into the story line and take the time to read it. All of which I know these things have slowed me down, which I am totally OK with, but there has got to be something I am missing as to why some people can level there toons so fast.

Rest XP, choosing the optimal areas to level in and doing the quest chains in large chunks so one doesn't have to go from the npc's to a prior visited area. Once you've been through the content 2-3 times you'll know the best routes, the shortcuts in Moria and all the quest chains. Virtues might need to be ground at cap if not incorporated into the leveling scheme.

Originally Posted by WhimsicalPacifist

Rest XP, choosing the optimal areas to level in and doing the quest chains in large chunks so one doesn't have to go from the npc's to a prior visited area. Once you've been through the content 2-3 times you'll know the best routes, the shortcuts in Moria and all the quest chains. Virtues might need to be ground at cap if not incorporated into the leveling scheme.

Be clever in the use of the XP tomes you get given at various level intervals.
3 or 4 skirms at level 20 will give you 2 or 3 levels right off the bat and help your slayer deeds.
Pick your quests to be done in lumps - e.g. in Moria make sure you pick up the GS quests from Orc Watch. 1 HM and 1 QM run = 1.5 levels.
Pick up ALL the quests you can from a particular area to get synergy - e.g. many quests may have "kill X of Y particular mob", INCLUDING the epics. There is no sweeter feeling than knowing that killing 1 mob has advanced 4 quests.
Know which areas (e.g. Oatbarton at lv30ish, Lorien at 59-63) give you essentially a free level or two.
Ensure you have the Derudh's Stone in your pocket when doing any non-instance content or solo instances. With rest XP, an XP tome and the Stone, I was getting about 700 XP for every on-level mob kill in Drowned Treasury and 1000 XP for bosses.

My minnie (http://my.lotro.com/home/character/2...9437379820990/) is currently level 61 and has been alive one month and 12 days. I have 3 75s at cap, of whom the hunter and burg are regular raiders, and I have a day job.

It's possible.

To orginal poster, I just hit 75 with my Warden this morning and promptly went into a fangorn with only dps. It was rather hard actually. I could hold aggro easy enough, but would die more then I wanted.

Its very frustrating that t1 three mans should be ezmode shouldnt seem so hard. Its also frustrating that every class seems to have a place to get medallions and seals, but a warden needs the gear to tank, and without it its just much harder to do anything. Skirm raids are well and enough good, but they dont drop many medallions, fang drops 50+ medallions and a you can break down the sigals for seals usually 2-3 a run no matter what. So 10 runs can get you 1 expensive piece, or 5 a boot or glove slot. Of course one foundry run could do what 5 fangs can easy enough, but who wants a non geared warden on a t2 foundry run. You can squeeze yourself into one easy enough with any dps or healer slot. Even a not fully geared gaurd will be ok. But a warden is next to useless in there.

Just did second run today with a healer though. Went much smoother. I guess Ill just have to either piggyback on skirm raids, or do them with healers until Im geared out.

In regards to leveling. YOU can pick out a warden/mini or champ today , and with less then 1 week of /played time, you can get to 75. This is non vip as well, but with a stone. My burg took 1 week 8 hours to get to 75. ITs just a matter of learning and pushing the quests over and over and over. Ignore pretty much all else, turning in the quests matter the most. Skirms do not give anywhere the amount of experience as turning in quests in the same time (in about 20 mins time, about average length of thos skirms, you can do easily 5 quests, taking lvl 65 quests in loth and mirk and endewaith gives about 50k exp or more. The skirm you will net average between 12-15k, they are fine for lower levels but anything above 35 or so , quests will always reward more for time put in)

The more knowledge you have of the questing patterns the better, the area as well, you will know when to RUN through 40 mobs instead of killing them, becuase you know you will have space to lose aggro in. You will know what quests are to time consuming to continue, or if your toon is more apt to do them in a quick time. Playing a champ, guardian, warden and mini opens up more quest chains as you can barely die on those in landscape quests. Playing hunter, lm, burg, rk you may have to skip some of the content and plow thorugh others, as they just fight diffrently and taking out 5-6 mobs sometimes just isnt going to happen with them. I have no comments on cappies becuase mines a baby.

I work from home so that helps. I had LOTRO open almost all day/night. A lot of AFK time while doing actual work but any spare minute I had was used to kill/quest.

I didn't get must rested XP as I was logged in a lot.

I did ALWAYS use the Destiny point XP boost. You get 5 to start and they refill every day or so. I also had a 25% xp pocket item on at all times till 65.

I completed the Volume 1 Epic Book before going into Moria (so on level). I completed Volume 2 and Volume 3 as well. So, in my eyes I did do the story completely. I have a different outlook on "story" than most people though. I'm not playing a book. I'm playing a graphical video game. So I expect the GRAPHICS to be the story and my actions to tell it. Reading long pages of flavor text on quests is not enjoyable to me.

Plus this game has a major failure in dialogue (in my opinion). The word usage is just off... Constantly i'm reading text that makes me think "Wow that was just terrible." It's hard to explain and i'm sure many don't agree but they over use words to make it sound "old" and I don't have any great examples right now. I understand this is a different time period and all that, but if you read/listen to good dialgue it fits the situation and you're not drawn away from it thinking "wow that was really out of place and sounded like they forced it in there just to make it seem to fit"

Anyway, sorry for my rant but I just think much of the text is poorly written and really bothers me so I ignore it.

I haven't played in a few days because every time I log in, I look around and think wow, I can't really do #### because I fail at tanking instances (I keep aggro but I die very quickly... yes this could be a problem with bad healers but healing seems pretty easy to me so I just assume its my tanking). Plus I've lost motivation to grind out faction for some minor upgrades that i'll in turn replace right away. I guess thats the MMO way?

Originally Posted by silverkelt

SNIP.

Glad to hear i'm not the only one with trouble. It also sounds like you have OTHER 75's which I feel would make things much easier. You know the game already, you likely have stuff to twink yourself with. You have friends and people to run with.

My Kin has a lot of great people in it, but they seem to be either Burnt out, scattered across the world (time zones don't match up so hard to see a lot on at once), or otherwise not really interested in working on 3 mans from scratch (they most all are used to steamrolling them with geared out toons I think).

Plus, I never expect anyone to carry me or work for me. I don't need or want a fully geared experienced healer to do all the work for me. BUT, finding a new/fresh 75 healer and dps to group with isn't easy. Most of the 75's that appear new are ALTS and they want to get carried so they run with friends who are fully geared.

I've considered server transfer to Brandy for the massive population increase. GLFF on my server is at most 150-200 people. Every time I Log into brandy to check it's 400+ it seems. I don't really want to pay for the transfer or leave my Kin behind who has helped me a lot... Hard to know what to do as I can't bring myself to stay logged in for very long anymore as I have nothing to do.

I had focus to get level 75 and finish the epic quests. I unlocked access to all of the instances / skirms so i'd be able to run then when groups were forming. I could max out my crafting I guess but Kin mates already have that. I'm an explorer so I could just go farm matts all day but that gets boring real fast.

I want to run 3 mans, kill bosses, run raids, kill bosses! Finish epic story chains, bla bla bla! I played 75 levels by myself, if I can't play with other people at level cap then ### is point of this being called an MMO?

I hear ya, unfortentely its the place wardens are at becuase turbine did some wacked out things. For one, finesse is a awful stat that directly hurts Wardens the most. Plus, really, can anyone here give me a reason WHY finesse is in the game, what it does intrinsicly to provide better content? Its supposed to scale certain mobs, but lets face it, landscape wise it makes zero diffrence, it only matters in instances, in which case, the only people being genrally hit are the tanks, since Guardians have less then wardens and need BPE less then wardens, and since everything is geared towards thier mitagations at the moment, it only makes since heavies are just better tanks. The other issue is no one really focuses on stacking pure finesse, they get it on other items, sometimes they may make a decision, hey this piece has 20 less main stat, but 1000 finesse, what the heck Ill keep it. its not much of a decision at all =(. I remember on my mini with radiance, I hated helegrod armour, it was pure trash other then 5% outgoing healer modifer and the 120 radiance. The modifer was ok.. but you had 77 less will on it then moria set. I went from cap to near to 580 with it on. So any benefits I wouldve recieved by having 5% better healing was immiedetly offset by a huge whack to will, I loved the moment they axed it and I could go back to capping my will again.

Remove finesse, and give a better boost to BPE to allow for the same sort of tanking experience. You want people not to use purple armour in raids, make it much worse. Thats the simple solution, make teals better, even crafted sets. This would prevent people from running it if you dont want them to. Me, personally could care less if purples remain only 10% lower then teals, I dont care, Im not that much of a snob on anything. I want to run stuff, more people who can run it the better, not less.

Other stuff, doesnt matter much, if you started a new toon now, you to would have the same advantages. BTW Im not in a large kin, but I am able at times to run stuff with good players, but not always. Trust me, that first run this morning in fangorn wasnt all about me being a medicore tank, the champ pulled the froggers, the hunter tab pulled a second mob group, they went downt the hill too early on the last part , even before trolls came out. However, alot of that junk wouldve been easily dealt with a guardian in the group, or even a geared out warden.

I'm confused about this Finesse talk...

The tooltip on this stat says it helps prevent targets from block/parry/evade your attacks. This is an offensive stat.

Do higher level creatures in end-game have high Finesse that screws wardens because we rely on BPE?

Originally Posted by Painlezz

I'm confused about this Finesse talk...

The tooltip on this stat says it helps prevent targets from block/parry/evade your attacks. This is an offensive stat.

Do higher level creatures in end-game have high Finesse that screws wardens because we rely on BPE?

Mobs have finesse too. and yes endgame raid bosses have rather high finesse that hurts our B/E/P as well. I hate finesse, but it doesnt hurt nearly as bad as the mitigation gap imo.

Originally Posted by silverkelt

I hear ya, unfortentely its the place wardens are at becuase turbine did some wacked out things.

Yep, when Isen came out it was frustrating when I hit cap. My dps was so meh, I had no real dps role in larger instances, and tanking wasn't much of an option in raids. I was fortunate that I was still able to run sch/lib for S4Ms so managed to get four of the the Galtrev raid pieces before the Isen instances came out. But at that point the game got very uninsteresting and I saw many cap wardens just drifting away. That's when I decided to level up my champ. I now use my lvl75 champ for running raids and larger instances and my warden mainly for tanking Isen (and other) 3-mans, resourcing, and helping out kinnies at lower levels.

Really looking forward to U6.

Reading things like this really just boggle my mind.

I work for a software company and this is just unacceptable. We could never, and would never release an update that broke something for a portion of our customers. And if something IS broken it gets fixed or reversed. It is clear to me that this IS an issue now. At first I wanted to go with the VERY select few who claim warden is fine and everyone complaining is stupid. But as usual majority rules. Most cap wardens are gone (or mostly gone) and the few who remain know they're meh!

I've logged in multiple times over the past few days, attempted to find groups for 3 mans or get into raids and each and every attempt is a failure. I cannot fill a raid tank role with my gear. I cannot fill a 3 man tank role with non heal spec healers and geared dps/healers expecting to faceroll content.

This really sucks as I've invested a decent amount of time and money into this game and I feel I could really enjoy it if I could actually play!

Originally Posted by Painlezz

Reading things like this really just boggle my mind.

I work for a software company and this is just unacceptable. We could never, and would never release an update that broke something for a portion of our customers. And if something IS broken it gets fixed or reversed. It is clear to me that this IS an issue now. At first I wanted to go with the VERY select few who claim warden is fine and everyone complaining is stupid. But as usual majority rules. Most cap wardens are gone (or mostly gone) and the few who remain know they're meh!

I've logged in multiple times over the past few days, attempted to find groups for 3 mans or get into raids and each and every attempt is a failure. I cannot fill a raid tank role with my gear. I cannot fill a 3 man tank role with non heal spec healers and geared dps/healers expecting to faceroll content.

This really sucks as I've invested a decent amount of time and money into this game and I feel I could really enjoy it if I could actually play!

I have meh gear and I get into 3 mans just fine. Heck, I've even tanked Foundry T2 with my meh gear. I was sweating bullets the whole time since it was my first time in there. The irony is that I was expecting the RK to be full time healing on me and I kept hearing in Vent, "Oops, forgot to send you some heals." I'm not uber -- far from it, so I think this shows that it IS possible. Hang in there, it will get better.

Originally Posted by Feraxks

I have meh gear and I get into 3 mans just fine. Heck, I've even tanked Foundry T2 with my meh gear. I was sweating bullets the whole time since it was my first time in there. The irony is that I was expecting the RK to be full time healing on me and I kept hearing in Vent, "Oops, forgot to send you some heals." I'm not uber -- far from it, so I think this shows that it IS possible. Hang in there, it will get better.

I think the same point still stands. Sure wardens can do it. Sure well played wardens will hardly have any issues. But why bother taking a warden if you have a guardian available?

Blah blah blah conviction fellowship heals, blah blah blah kiting tank but I still feel that guardians are a much safer choice at this point, if not a better choice all around.

As for those having issues with having just reached cap, run a few skraids and get some skraid gear to start you off. They are solid pieces, almost everyone is familiar with skirmishes if not raid skirmishes, and it is fairly easy to get some decent gear. Only downside is that skraids do not seem to be as popular as they were before the new instances. Just pony up and lead one.

Originally Posted by Painlezz

I want to run 3 mans, kill bosses, run raids, kill bosses! Finish epic story chains, bla bla bla! I played 75 levels by myself, if I can't play with other people at level cap then ### is point of this being called an MMO?

I feel much the same way. My kinship has all but died and I have a hard time finding the motivation to join another kin. It is difficult to get into even casual raiding kins (who wants a warden tank and healing rk, I mean really?) and constantly killing the same mobs as I solo older content is really getting me down. The community in game does not seem to be even close to what it was even a year ago.

Between Roi and u5. You could get s4ms from anywhere.. Skirm raids would be run on a daily basis, people would to 6 man gbs, 3 man school lib. I was almost entirely geared out with my mini and champ within 2 weeks of release of roi. They then released u5 and I still didnt think it was too bad, you had to run the new content, but a few foundry runs would get you were you needed to be.

However, you might have "meh" gear, but my armour is terrible, Im still using 2 yellow quest armour peieces. Normally , I would just replace those two with draigoch fairly quick, but with warden it just takes forever.

Im glad you got into a foundry t2, but there is NO way I could MT the multiple mobs there without just tons of support. I know some well geared wardens WHO indeed play alot like before roi really. But , to get to that point is hard with a warden right now. They can be MTs fairly easy in most of the Skirm Raids and t1 3 mans, but thats just alot of bloody runs to get anything.

I have other toons to play, creeps to rank ect, I enjoy alot of this game, but I really liked banging my warden into 6 mans pre roi, I felt I offered alot, including the group wide heal. I got to the point where I felt like I could hold aggro even against those with 65 1st agers, and I enjoyed it.

My BIGGEST mistake was I didnt do my warden first, I did him last. I shouldve done him first, so I coudlve geared him up. For those who are gearing up wardens post u5, its plainly the worst of all classes to do it with. Healers, Dps, burg and lm have thier places, but a warden, non geared has little to offer.

This isnt a RANT against turbine, this is my objectivity based on 6 other toons Ive maxed, out of those 6, Im finding the warden the most frustrating to play at the moment.