It is possible the dev's have been over there trying their pvp as they had broken ours so badly >.<
The PvP here is broken and they are trying to fix it. Lets not looe sight of the fact that they are here doing something. We may never know why they are choosing to do something now, TOR competition? Loss of players? Legit gripes aired over months and months years and years finally being addressed? A dev rolled a creep and died in 4 seconds and said “this isnt very fun” who knows.
Where we are now is, changes are coming so we have to be diligent and hold their feet to the fire and make sure the changes make sense for everyone (creep and freep) its unlikely we will get a flurry of changes and engagement like this for a very long time.
Hey all, figured it was high time I swung by and answered a few questions. So, here goes!
Originally Posted by Sezneg
Combat pacing is the single largest problem in the moors.
If you successfully fix it, the quality of the pvp will be hugely improved.
This is our opinion as well. Beta testing led us to also add on a global skill power cost reduction that was added after the dev diary. The extension of combat was causing come classes to run into more power issues then we wanted.
Originally Posted by Regero
So Creeps won't need to grind for their Audacity, and it comes as a passive trait, but freeps do need to grind for their audacity and we get pigeonholed into a specific set of armor in order to make full use of it?
Freeps and Creeps will both need to spend Commendations to acquire their Audacity ranks. For Creeps the ranks come on the trait, for Freeps it comes on the PvMP Armour. There are 3 sets of PvMP armour for each class that correspond to different spec lines, so there is room for customization.
Originally Posted by Theandil
hmm nice idea. But now dps of creeps is too low, and we deal very low dmg to compare some freeps. So with U6 our damge will be inceresed?
Audacity bonuses are mirrored for freeps and creeps. As such, balance between the two sides is not intended to be meaningfully altered by it's introduction.
Originally Posted by thunderchickn
I strongly disagree. I think this is what they meant when they said they see PvP gear as "more of a necessity than an achievement". You will need this gear which is awesome, I've always been bugged that the PvP gear isn't even that great in PvP for most classes.
I think it is worth mentioning that rank 1 of Audacity (which freeps and creeps get for free) provides around half of the possible full bonuses that it will grant at max rank. This is because while we want high Audacity to be a valuable achievement for our dedicated PvMP players, we want new players to not be crushed. There is always a careful balance in MMO PvP: how much in the way of grinding do you want players to work through to reach "full" potency?" We have many hopes for Audacity, but two of them are that they will slow down combat and that they will help out new players.
Originally Posted by quigonwindu
I'm partial to chutzpah
I'm not sure if that would get by our lore guardians
Originally Posted by haroldhnicholos
wow everyone screams for help in the moors so devs revamp creeps pple scream devs are trying a new token idea everyone screams devs try a new stat evryone QQs.pple want nice pvp gear pple still cry. im excited to try all this out heck I cant wait to finilly get some pvp gear..try me new warg..try the new stat ty turbine!!! im for once in the boat...good to see so much pvp action!!!
The devs who work on PvMP are people who play a variety of PvP games. As PvP gamers who clearly care enough about gaming to get a job doing this, we read and sometimes even post on other PvP games forums. As such, let's just say that reactions on these forums are very much what we expect to see. We don't make these changes because we hate freeps or creeps or anybody. We make these changes because we want a more healthy PvMP experience. I hope you, and everyone else, enjoy it
Originally Posted by Aravaethil
The idea is not to balance freeps and creeps directly.
The idea is to prevent the use of pvp and pve armor sets for "different" purposes than they were designed for, by introducing a gate mechanism for freeps in pvp. It is only a move to separate the two freep worlds so that freeps that pvp are forced to use specific gear or learn gear swap macro fu.
By making it traited for creeps and itemized for freeps, this means all creeps will have it, making it in turn mandatory for freeps, which leaves creep/freep balance exactly at the same spot as before (you are right!) but creates a clear separation between pvp and pve armor. Freep pve armor will be less usable in pvp with this new stat, I am guessing the % will provide a strong incentive considering they bothered to introduce a new stat just for this.
To repeat: the issue is not freep/creep balance, although that seems to polarize the thread, first because it is a real problem to balance classes in every mmo game (it is an impossible problem to solve); second on every mmo with pvp the forums are so crowded by different sides trying to influence the nerf bat towards the other that it becomes hard to be objective.
With ROI, Turbine gave freeps pvp armor sets that were more defensive, no one used them because the roi raid sets were more offensive and better, moors became impossible to play because freep dps was sky high, Turbine tried to solve it through mitigations but failed and we had ~mmo drama~. Now they are adding a new stat to sort it out. It's clumsy but simple.
I hope it works, it does pave the way for new pvp content every 6 months, don't think it will be much of a grind since all we do is kill each other anyway, don't really like the way Turbine adds new stats every 6 months, a bit immersion breaking and doesn't seem elegant to me but ... :care:
Marry me? Come work here? Want me to wash your car?
That's it for now!
Last edited by Zombie_Columbus; Feb 24 2012 at 07:30 PM.
"There will be prizes and gambling as usual to celebrate Columbus’s triumphant rise from the dead to smite his enemies without mercy. Don’t count yourself amongst them! We’ll be discussing and praising all of Columbus’s many inventions such as the lightbulb, telegraph, and plastic to avoid incurring his wrath."
It appears ZC is implying they are trying to address this:
Originally Posted by Oldwiley
Yeah i was tempted to write one of my detailed asks for interesting changes, but they don't usually spend more than a few moments on pvp so i abridged mine to a short one. Significant rebuild would be best, but its unlikely to happen so hence my suggestion...
..The single biggest problem on the moors has been a long term hike in the speed of combat - its too zap zap your dead...
...Anyone who remembers how good fights that lasted a few minutes or raid v raid 40 minutes will realise that the upping power and dps so fights last 4 to 15 seconds is not an improvement.....End the speed nukes, let us actually fight.
Which to me has always been the biggest problem. What they do now in terms of other changes is what makes the measure of the overall effect.
"Romper: You have the power to make EM less boring for yourself and everyone else. "
"Look for your lore. But do not trust to lore, it has forsaken these lands." - Eolore prince of Lorehan
This is our opinion as well. Beta testing led us to also add on a global skill power cost reduction that was added after the dev diary. The extension of combat was causing come classes to run into more power issues then we wanted.
Have you scaled NPCs damage? Or will they just be for decoration?
Wine Wine Wine. Dry Dry Dry. What will it be today ?...
Beer!
~Me
Don't push it. Don't push it or I'll give you a war you won't believe.
There are 3 sets of PvMP armour for each class that correspond to different spec lines, so there is room for customization.
Now were talking...! Cant wait to see the new PVP armour sets
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Yeah, this news of the new armor sets definitely has me excited, I hope that they are also good for PvE.
If they are good for PvE I will start to regularly play in the moors.
Right now I spend so much time chasing gear in PvE that I hardly have time to PvP, but ironically, the biggest drive for me to chase PvE gear is so that I will be stronger for PvP.
If Turbine does this right they could serious fix things for me so that I could actually *deep breath* do what I want to do, instead of being forced to do things I dont want to do.
1.Are you adding new pvmp sets with update 6 ? What will happen the current lvl 75 set owners ? ZC said they're adding three sets but it is not clear if they're brand new ones or just just change of stats of the current ones.
2.Acquiring the current pvp sets before update 6 will already grant new sets or you will add a barter change so that we can barter our current sets for new ones ?
3.The pvmp sets will not be able to acquired by any means other than commendations? So brilliant stones , tyrant crests and brooches will not be used for acquiring those sets or will you allow us alternate ways.
4.If so crests brooches abd valour tokens are becomming obsolete ?
5.What will Delving of fror play as role of pvmp advancement and barter system , just consumables and creep barters as usual ?
What do these changes have to do with the current imbalance from freep dps to creep dps? If I can't survive in a fight more than 3 seconds while a freep can run into ta's traps, take the damage from 3 creeps and then kill a creep in a blink of an eye and return to safety alive. I don't see how are these changes going to make a difference nor do I believe any devs (or whoever playtests) are doing pvp on a regular basis. I don't mind a challenge but this is kind of rediculous.
I feel like a broken record after 4+ years of pvmp and asking for some simple changes but in reality the game 4 years ago was more functional (even if we didn't appreciate it) and all that has happened is a downhill slide for creeps ever since.
Ancient spider of the moors (5 years and counting). I miss Nidor....
1.Are you adding new pvmp sets with update 6 ? What will happen the current lvl 75 set owners ? ZC said they're adding three sets but it is not clear if they're brand new ones or just just change of stats of the current ones.
2.Acquiring the current pvp sets before update 6 will already grant new sets or you will add a barter change so that we can barter our current sets for new ones ?
3.The pvmp sets will not be able to acquired by any means other than commendations? So brilliant stones , tyrant crests and brooches will not be used for acquiring those sets or will you allow us alternate ways.
4.If so crests brooches abd valour tokens are becomming obsolete ?
5.What will Delving of fror play as role of pvmp advancement and barter system , just consumables and creep barters as usual ?
Thank you.
/MeL
3. Brilliant stones and crests and other spiritstones will be converted to commendations in some manner and value wich we don't know yet. At will not exist anymore, Commendation will be the new and only barter in EM now if I got it right.
5. NPC's that drops Crests and stones will now drop consumables instead. I bet that DF NPC'S Chieftans and Tyrant will give some rather nice consumable I hope.
Originally Posted by MummyLord
What do these changes have to do with the current imbalance from freep dps to creep dps? If I can't survive in a fight more than 3 seconds while a freep can run into ta's traps, take the damage from 3 creeps and then kill a creep in a blink of an eye and return to safety alive. I don't see how are these changes going to make a difference nor do I believe any devs (or whoever playtests) are doing pvp on a regular basis. I don't mind a challenge but this is kind of rediculous.
I feel like a broken record after 4+ years of pvmp and asking for some simple changes but in reality the game 4 years ago was more functional (even if we didn't appreciate it) and all that has happened is a downhill slide for creeps ever since.
Well if I understand this right Audacity will give more defence and result in with 'New players = Easy kills . Veterans = Hard kills'... We... or rather I can't say how much because we don't have any numbers or proof on how it works but as I have said before I have faith in that employees of Turbine knows what they do.
While it is clear that the pace of fights is too fast currently, the reason for this is the crazy freep DPS. When creeps spar, the fights take a LOT longer than the few seconds that it takes a freep to blow up a creep.
While slowing down the fight equally on both sides should make the fights last longer, unless the new PVP gear is much less DPS powerful than current PVE gear, freeps will still be blowing creeps up, though it might take double digit seconds.
The new stat had better be MANDATORY at all times in PVP, or we will see it not being used (or gear swapped) in order to keep the high DPS freeps enjoy so much. A burg or hunter often does not get hit much when they ambush a creep, so defenses are useless in those fights. I won't even mention godmode Minstrels.
In summary, While I think this is a good step, I'm not seeing how it balances the ridiculous dps and healing differences between creeps and freeps, unless the benefits from the stat are applied unevenly.
Freeps and Creeps will both need to spend Commendations to acquire their Audacity ranks. For Creeps the ranks come on the trait, for Freeps it comes on the PvMP Armour. There are 3 sets of PvMP armour for each class that correspond to different spec lines, so there is room for customization.
Would it be so difficult to add an additional trait slot for Audacity? I would assume the Development team would have the means to make it that the trait would only enable while partaking in PvMP. Forcing people into gear sucks, this has been widely known since the inception of Radiance in MoM.
It's called having a trade off. You know, like the majority of choices use to, and what creeps still go through. You're not forced to use the new gear in Update 6, but that it's reccomended since you'll survive longer. From what it sounds like you could use this gear in PvE too, just that Audacity only works in the Moors. If you're not a stickler for the set bonuses you can always mix and match among the 3 sets.
Personally it doesn't sound as bad to me as some are making it out to be. You still have customization, not to mention with the Season stuff your customization will only increase. As to why Creeps get it as a passive..creeps are always in the Moors, they are built around PvP, so it only makes sense. Whereas Freeps can be in the Moors or anywhere else in the game. So it makes sense to have audacity on gear for them, so they can interchange.
Overall, good notes ZC, I can't wait for Audacity. Though I will ask, once the next season comes around and a higher rank is offered, besides jewelry if there are new sets, could you barter any current pieces for the new gear like from the 65-75 sets? Like in theory?
What do these changes have to do with the current imbalance from freep dps to creep dps?
Nothing. This change is not intended to make any major faction specific balance adjustments. It is an overall pacing change combined with a currency that ::gasp:: rewards PvPing in the PvMP zone! The creep class updates we've done seperatly are for such concerns. Lastly, recall that in asymetrical PvP the natural instinct is to call imbalance. Both sides do it quite loudly on these forums.
"There will be prizes and gambling as usual to celebrate Columbus’s triumphant rise from the dead to smite his enemies without mercy. Don’t count yourself amongst them! We’ll be discussing and praising all of Columbus’s many inventions such as the lightbulb, telegraph, and plastic to avoid incurring his wrath."
Lastly, recall that in asymetrical PvP the natural instinct is to call imbalance. Both sides do it quite loudly on these forums.
While that is true, I think most freeps that are honest will themselves will admit that they are significantly OP compared to creeps. Creep dps < freep heals. So anytime freeps group up with dedicated healers, it becomes a faceroll.
The idea of making a pvp set that offers 'defensive' bonus is good, but it is unlikely to be used by freeps if the dps disparity between the PVE armor and the PVP armor is high - especially by classes that have a number of survivability/escape skills. However without seeing how much of an impact audacity makes, I can only guess about that. If the audacity impact is high, freeps will most likely use the new armor.
Thank you for your work on PvP. Its good to see it getting some attention.
ლ(ಠ益ಠლ)
why are the only changes ever made given to ranks you can zerg in two weeks and the greater portion of pvpers who stuck it through thick and thin don't even get a gd emote when some of these ranks can take upwards of a year
Nothing. This change is not intended to make any major faction specific balance adjustments. It is an overall pacing change combined with a currency that ::gasp:: rewards PvPing in the PvMP zone! The creep class updates we've done seperatly are for such concerns. Lastly, recall that in asymetrical PvP the natural instinct is to call imbalance. Both sides do it quite loudly on these forums.
its not instinct to call it imbalance when a mini can survie 8 creeps from ec to TR my freind amlios mini tried it and lived. its imbalanced when preisen my warg could sparr a champ and we bothed died when now he crits for 5k and has enough bubbles and heals fo crush me and have full life that is imbance.
ლ(ಠ益ಠლ)
why are the only changes ever made given to ranks you can zerg in two weeks and the greater portion of pvpers who stuck it through thick and thin don't even get a gd emote when some of these ranks can take upwards of a year
The Devs dont care for creep classes, even with the new improvementns to certain creep classes, lvl 85 freeps will still faceroll us :-D
Nothing. This change is not intended to make any major faction specific balance adjustments. It is an overall pacing change combined with a currency that ::gasp:: rewards PvPing in the PvMP zone! The creep class updates we've done seperatly are for such concerns. Lastly, recall that in asymetrical PvP the natural instinct is to call imbalance. Both sides do it quite loudly on these forums.
Asymmetrical PvP does add a certain flavour, but people complaining about the Mini are not really talking about balance.
The problem with the Mini is that you have a light-armour wearing squishie class tanking PvMP raids. If it was a Guardian or a Captain who was nigh-unkillable, people wouldn't be screaming as much, as this jives with the lore of the class.
Nothing. This change is not intended to make any major faction specific balance adjustments. It is an overall pacing change combined with a currency that ::gasp:: rewards PvPing in the PvMP zone! The creep class updates we've done seperatly are for such concerns. Lastly, recall that in asymetrical PvP the natural instinct is to call imbalance. Both sides do it quite loudly on these forums.
I think this will be a positive change - it's been a real bind having to do PvE in DoF to get freep rewards, especially when those rewards are being acquired often for the very reason of wanting to avoid PvE raids. (this is refering to the new currency btw, I realise the thread is about audacity but as you brought it up...).
However your comment does lead me to ask a question: are there dev/s that play in the Ettenmoors regularly on both sides on multiple classes?
Last edited by Beleg-Of-Doriath; Feb 25 2012 at 06:32 PM.
"'Ai! ai!' wailed Legolas. 'A Rune-Keeper! A Rune-Keeper is come!'
Gimli stared with wide eyes. 'Tolkien's Bane!' he cried, and letting his axe fall he covered his face."
Lastly, recall that in asymetrical PvP the natural instinct is to call imbalance. Both sides do it quite loudly on these forums.
Point to where any Freeps are claiming imbalance?
My name is Purebloodnakh, Chieftain of Saruman's Armies of the North, General of the Warg Legions, loyal servant to the true Lord, Sauron. And I will have my vengeance, in this life or the next.
The devs who work on PvMP are people who play a variety of PvP games. As PvP gamers who clearly care enough about gaming to get a job doing this, we read and sometimes even post on other PvP games forums. As such, let's just say that reactions on these forums are very much what we expect to see. We don't make these changes because we hate freeps or creeps or anybody. We make these changes because we want a more healthy PvMP experience. I hope you, and everyone else, enjoy it
Can you provide us any evidence of your activity as a Monster Player?
My name is Purebloodnakh, Chieftain of Saruman's Armies of the North, General of the Warg Legions, loyal servant to the true Lord, Sauron. And I will have my vengeance, in this life or the next.
Nothing. This change is not intended to make any major faction specific balance adjustments. It is an overall pacing change combined with a currency that ::gasp:: rewards PvPing in the PvMP zone! The creep class updates we've done seperatly are for such concerns. Lastly, recall that in asymetrical PvP the natural instinct is to call imbalance. Both sides do it quite loudly on these forums.
Oh this means I am wrong with some of the things I have said and hoped for...
But I still think Turbine knows what they are doing.
Nothing. This change is not intended to make any major faction specific balance adjustments. It is an overall pacing change combined with a currency that ::gasp:: rewards PvPing in the PvMP zone! The creep class updates we've done seperatly are for such concerns. Lastly, recall that in asymetrical PvP the natural instinct is to call imbalance. Both sides do it quite loudly on these forums.
"Both sides do it quite loudly on these forums." This is a very disturbing statement because it has very little to do with what is ACTUALLY occuring in PvMP play! Anyone who has spent any significant time in the moors sees an imbalance favoring freep players. The interesting part is that the imbalance has more to do with the seasoned PvPers then it has to do with greenies on both sides getting their PvMP feet wet for the first time.
The problem is that under LoTRO's current gaming mechanics it is practically impossible for players to advance their creep classes on par with their freep class counterparts. Turbine has made all freeps inherently more powerful then the orcs, goblins, evil men and monsters of Middlearth! That works for the PvE because players can hone their skills significantly enough to dominate the opposition.
Not true in PvMP!!! Because gamers choosing to play characters that are supportive of Sauron or at the very least choose to rise up against the free peoples of Middlearth are not given the same consideration "to dominate" because their primary nemesis in the "Player Character" not the "NON Player Character"
Therefore, your gaming system is inherently unfair for those that choose to play Sauron influenced races! So, this begs the question, where is the "freedom of choice" to play ANY allowed race or class that allows the gamer to master his/her avatar to the point where he/she can dominate the oposition???
Is it not the 'ability to dominate or win' what makes all games (irregardless of venue or genre) fun and enticing to play?!?
So, ZC, I feel Turbine is missing a hugh oportunity to strike better balance in PvMP by Turbine's decision not to use Audacity as a PvMP balancing mechanic! If audacity rank was just allowed to be uncapped for creeps then at some point would not creeps feel the effects and start seeing they can fight paw to toe with freeps? Using this mechanic is this way would only reward those gamers that are willing to spend the required time to rank their creeps significantly. Not everyone would do this, but some would - allowing the most important part: ALL players are given the opportunity to dominate irregardless their choice of race or which side of the battle they decide to be on.
And is it not Turbine's emphasis to make LoTRO a game where greater options of choice are given to it's supporters?
Please reconsider!
Welden
Last edited by welden; Feb 26 2012 at 08:44 AM.
Character is currently retired since Dec 2008 in response to account being hacked.
From what I've read of the new PvP armor sets they're being putting in so that Turbine does not have to affect Freep PvE. The new armor sets will have more defensive-based stats and a lot less offense, but unlike the PvE armor sets these will also have Audacity which will be a needed stat in PvP. So Freeps will hopefully be forced into choosing the new armor sets when they PvP meaning they will take less damage (Slight concern) but also do less damage as well. Now, I don't know the math on Audacity, but it will have to be a pretty nice boost since most classes Freepside can easily withstand creep DPS and stuns in current PvE gear. Only problem I currently see is that healing will possibly be quite overpowered with everyone's damage being lowered and cc being lowered which virtually removes the only other way to deal with healers besides killing them =). This is the only major concern I have until I actually see Audacity in action because a mini can easily outheal several creeps' DPS as PVMP currently stands.
Freeps and Creeps will both need to spend Commendations to acquire their Audacity ranks. For Creeps the ranks come on the trait, for Freeps it comes on the PvMP Armour. There are 3 sets of PvMP armour for each class that correspond to different spec lines, so there is room for customization.
Zombie, I usually like what you do, but this is total junk
Think of it this way.
Level Cap increase. Old PvMP armor is going to be worthless for fighting. But Creeps still get all of their old pvmp audacity traits. So the freep is running around in pve armor at rank 1 audacity, and the creep is running around in rank 8 audacity. The creep has a much faster starting point.
Long story short, the creep gets to keep his old stuff forever, while the freeps old stuff is useless and he needs to start from scratch each time.
Zombie, I usually like what you do, but this is total junk
Think of it this way.
Level Cap increase. Old PvMP armor is going to be worthless for fighting. But Creeps still get all of their old pvmp audacity traits. So the freep is running around in pve armor at rank 1 audacity, and the creep is running around in rank 8 audacity. The creep has a much faster starting point.
Long story short, the creep gets to keep his old stuff forever, while the freeps old stuff is useless and he needs to start from scratch each time.
just like with Isen, you will most likely be able to barter your old gear for the new 1's.
Creeps do not start at maximum audacity. They have to spend commendations to advance it (as I understand it).
What he meant,when creeps done farming for their audacity maximum rank,the next cap starts(85) creeps already have their audacity maxed,and freeps will have to grind for new armor lvl 85 instead of 75,unless they are letting us barter our 75 gear for 85 which would be great
I think one problem with the asymmetrical PvMP is that all players want to be on equal footing with all other players, which cannot happen. It would be like having an RTS where all units are equal to each other, which is in essence what the moors is in group v group: a first person RTS (with raid leaders being the RTS player and everyone else being the units). In theory it would work well, but it breaks down due to the low DPS of creeps relative to freep morale, and high DPS of freeps relative to creep morale. For instance stealthy Wargs should be able to take out an equal number of WS minis, hunters, and RKs, but of course their DPS is too low to make effective use of the initial pounce and once the freeps are up its game over for 1 or 2 Wargs within 10 seconds. Turbines going to fix that aspect hopefully, but there a few others.
When you have classes like the Champion with very high melee DPS, around 10k of morale shields or heals, and 45s sprints with slow immunity it prevents them from being weak against any unit. This would be fine if there were a limited number of them, but there's not. Take away the extended sprint legacy and you have yourself a somewhat balanced class again because it suddenly has a weakness against ranged units. Take away the true heroics shield while out of Glory and nerf the sudden defense bubble to 50% of its power while out of Glory and its a balanced class.
Similarly Burglars have the problem of being great at burst DPS from stealth and very effective against ranged units (as stealth units should be), but are nowhere near squishy. Touch n Go being able to be popped by find footing and the skill itself, Knives out, HIPS; its burst survival is immense. One thing that Turbine has going for it is Burglars are fairly often soloing or scouting, and not usually in raids. This makes it immensely easier to balance because if Burgs are just picking off lone creeps nothing needs to be fixed. However if 2 Burglars start joining each full raid, with traited Enrage on BA and Weavers, Dust in the Eyes on all melee creeps, addle on the healers, within 10s you have a heavily nerfed creep raid in terms of DPS and HPS. I think burglars have the possibility to completely break any balancing of Raid v Raid with their current debuffs. The legacy for addle magnitude and traited enrage should be disabled in the moors for obvious balancing reasons.
WS Minstrels are a tough call, their DPS isn't amazing like a hunter's or a Champions and their power management is pretty bad. Other freep classes are fine as is, they all have their strengths and their weaknesses against creeps.
Only nerf I want to creepside: prevent 'No you don't' from dismounting freeps.
Feedback on audacity: Can't give any until I know the numbers, its nice that combat is being slowed though.
What he meant,when creeps done farming for their audacity maximum rank,the next cap starts(85) creeps already have their audacity maxed,and freeps will have to grind for new armor lvl 85 instead of 75,unless they are letting us barter our 75 gear for 85 which would be great
Barol scored a devastating hit with Remorseless Strike on Purebloodnakh for 5,856 Beleriand damage to Morale.
Is the mighty Barol concerned about being less OP?
Godmode can be addictive Im sure
My name is Purebloodnakh, Chieftain of Saruman's Armies of the North, General of the Warg Legions, loyal servant to the true Lord, Sauron. And I will have my vengeance, in this life or the next.
WS Minstrels are a tough call, their DPS isn't amazing like a hunter's or a Champions and their power management is pretty bad. Other freep classes are fine as is, they all have their strengths and their weaknesses against creeps.
Question: Would'nt this increase the run-awaye'rs/chance to run away in a fight?
Pretty lame.
COME INTO THE MOORS, AND FEEL THE POUNCE OF BORNTOOWN! Borntown - Champion - 75 r7!!! - *OG* Borntoown - Warg - 75 r7!!!- Pirate Lords - back in action
Ok, so freeps are getting more PvP armor that will probably have to sit in storage or take up inventory space when outside of the Moors. That's fine by me, but it reminds me about one of the issues that has always dogged me when it comes to the Ettens.
Can we *PLEASE* get some kind of storage lockers in Glen Vraig that is separate from the vault, unlocked by rank and maybe commendations, so I can dedicate some space to all the gear, potions, barter crud, and quest junk that only has backpack value in the PvMP zone?
While we're asking for stuff that will never happen, can we also get cosmetic outfits enabled in the Moors so everyone doesn't look exactly the same once they gear up?
Not all those who wander are lost. They might be working on one of their exploration deeds.
The new forums stink on ice. Let others follow them who can.
Ok, so freeps are getting more PvP armor that will probably have to sit in storage or take up inventory space when outside of the Moors. That's fine by me, but it reminds me about one of the issues that has always dogged me when it comes to the Ettens.
Can we *PLEASE* get some kind of storage lockers in Glen Vraig that is separate from the vault, unlocked by rank and maybe commendations, so I can dedicate some space to all the gear, potions, barter crud, and quest junk that only has backpack value in the PvMP zone?
You know someone is going to point out that creeps do not have vaults or mailboxes...
Because let me guess Saurons armies had not invented the box. And despite being the ones all for an age of industry and technology, a postal service is clearly only in the domain of parochial rural midgets then.
Originally Posted by MysterX
While we're asking for stuff that will never happen, can we also get cosmetic outfits enabled in the Moors so everyone doesn't look exactly the same once they gear up?
Hmm I think cosmetics should be available for freeps in the moors, but not the standard anything goes, how about a one size fits all costume for each class that changes with rank and can be enhanced by a one in 10,000 drop rate from moors only dropped boxes.
In fact I like the idea fo freep cosmetics being rank dependent, it would make it nice and easy to identify class and rank
On topic, it seems this is to slow down combat - this is good, just good, no buts, anything to slow down the nuke is good. As for balance, well thats up to what they do elsewhere, no mention of changes to reaver, defilers, war leaders or BA's yet as far as i know. And we are missing what gems freeps will get in the update, probably the ability to run on water and fly.
The obvious concern is aye, if healing remains the same, hitting healed freeps with audacity is going to be like throwing feathers and flowers at T-34's, nice to do, but effectually pointless.
Don't get me started on store consumables -.- While obviously raking in the pennies for WB, they are the the most depressing addition to pvp since it was concieved, try getting a dev to comment on that. Oh look its a sprinting champ with bubbled up 20k effective morale, who is immune to leg break, healing faster than a defiler on itself, and can become immune to all CC in combat..... luckily it only out dps's creep melee by a factor of 4 then.
Last edited by Oldwiley; Feb 26 2012 at 02:52 PM.
"Romper: You have the power to make EM less boring for yourself and everyone else. "
"Look for your lore. But do not trust to lore, it has forsaken these lands." - Eolore prince of Lorehan
Since a lot of captains cried foul at having one of the best defensive banners in the game available only from the 'Moor, what if a new banner was given to the captains that did +1 stacking audacity to the fellow. I would assume Turbine would also grant some sort of ability like this to the warleaders as well, so the Freeps don't have an audacity advantage.
What he meant,when creeps done farming for their audacity maximum rank,the next cap starts(85) creeps already have their audacity maxed,and freeps will have to grind for new armor lvl 85 instead of 75,unless they are letting us barter our 75 gear for 85 which would be great
you haven't been paying attention, the max rank of audacity will go up periodically requiring both sides to grind for their new ranks of Audacity.
Stop trying to play the victim here, Audacity will do the same for both sides and I am almost 100% certain getting to max Audacity rank will cost exactly the same commendations on both sides. Taking into account that freeps get a lot more kills than creeps they should earn commendations at a much higher rate than creeps and will still be at an advantage.
Nothing. This change is not intended to make any major faction specific balance adjustments. It is an overall pacing change combined with a currency that ::gasp:: rewards PvPing in the PvMP zone! The creep class updates we've done seperatly are for such concerns. Lastly, recall that in asymetrical PvP the natural instinct is to call imbalance. Both sides do it quite loudly on these forums.
first of all thanks for posting.
BUT
You are making it sound like you don't think there is a balance problem.
Even freeps will tell you certain freep classes are completely overpowered at the moment.
Or are you saying that the creep class updates are of such a calibre that they will solve this imbalance?
I don't see how buffing creeps to be able to take on minstrels and Champions will not leave the other freeps classes completely at their mercy.
The problem is that these 2 freep classes are not just extraordinarily more powerful than creeps, they are insanely more powerful than the other freep classes as well.
This is the true problem of the current imbalance.
I know you guys always say you hate to nerf things (al though, seems to be less of a problem when that nerf hits creeps *cough*blackarrows*cough*)
But I see no way to balance the moors without balancing all of the freep classes with each other first.
If you make one freep class OP compared to others than 40% of the players in the moors will be that class, and balance is impossible.
Do you guys realise this and if so, what will you do about it, or am I saying something completely alien here?
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Originally Posted by Oldwiley
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