Thread: Wow, I am sorry but this is just really really really lame!

I have been doing the independent crafting thing for a while now.......and with so many restrictions lifted I finally was able to get my woodworker into the crafting guild.

I only have one main and my other three characters are low level alts strictly for crafting purposes and so far there has been no issues...until now!

My woodworker is only level 24 but I have never had any issues at all getting everything up to Black Ash logs on my own...I just make sure I never get too close to monsters and I am fine.

Well, I get all excited about heading into Eregion finally to start getting some Ilex and Mallorn and what happened just floored me.

For one......the monsters here are like picking up my character from the other side of the frickin map and aggro'ing on me so I basically have absolutely no chance of being able to get logs here.

And then I finally actually get to a log were nothing aggro'ed on me and it was taking forever and a day to cut it.

Is this actually working as intended?

I mean this is kind of a lame deceptive business practice if you ask me, your are put under the illusion that all the way up to Master you can do fine then all the sudden you try to get stuff for Supreme and you just get slapped in the face!

This is working as Turbine intends. This does not prevent you from continuing your craft, it only causes you to consider alternative resource acquisition methods.


Edit -- it appears a moderator moved this from general discussion to crafting. This is not a crafting issue and the move was inappropriate. It's a "your level is well beneath the level of the zone" issue.

Originally Posted by vVAnjilaVv

I have been doing the independent crafting thing for a while now.......and with so many restrictions lifted I finally was able to get my woodworker into the crafting guild.

I only have one main and my other three characters are low level alts strictly for crafting purposes and so far there has been no issues...until now!

My woodworker is only level 24 but I have never had any issues at all getting everything up to Black Ash logs on my own...I just make sure I never get too close to monsters and I am fine.

Well, I get all excited about heading into Eregion finally to start getting some Ilex and Mallorn and what happened just floored me.

For one......the monsters here are like picking up my character from the other side of the frickin map and aggro'ing on me so I basically have absolutely no chance of being able to get logs here.

And then I finally actually get to a log were nothing aggro'ed on me and it was taking forever and a day to cut it.

Is this actually working as intended?

I mean this is kind of a lame deceptive business practice if you ask me, your are put under the illusion that all the way up to Master you can do fine then all the sudden you try to get stuff for Supreme and you just get slapped in the face!

You're a level 24 in a level 45-50ish zone...why are you mad at turbine? Who ever gave "the illusion that all the way up to Master you can do fine then all the sudden..."....what made you think that?? It does suck for people who just like to craft, but you gotta level characters, too

The aggro is as intended, it starts at a certain gap between your level and that of the region you are in. For the fellowship walk late last year, I escorted a level 8 toon to the Fort of Bruinen, and even the rabbits went after this one.

Wait until you gotta go into the latter parts of Moria or Lothlorien to find Mallorn. And Dunland for Birch.

Most people with low level crafting alts have high level characters who do all the harvesting for their lowbies. Or they just buy the materials off the AH/trade.

.the monsters here are like picking up my character from the other side of the frickin map and aggro'ing on me so I basically have absolutely no chance of being able to get logs here.

When the area name goes red it means it's a Dangerous Area for you. In Dangerous Areas you agro things from a great distance. Had one of my material gathers surrounded and killed by deer in the Trollshaws once Annoying but funny in hindsight. Pun not intended

And then I finally actually get to a log were nothing aggro'ed on me and it was taking forever and a day to cut it.

Higher level tools will cut the time needed to harvest things. Catch is you need to be high enough of a level to use them.

Originally Posted by Ryuc

You're a level 24 in a level 45-50ish zone...why are you mad at turbine? Who ever gave "the illusion that all the way up to Master you can do fine then all the sudden..."....what made you think that?? It does suck for people who just like to craft, but you gotta level characters, too

I'm only playing one character as a main...and that's it, I refuse to get into the leveling a bazillion alt mayhem of MMO's......and it is an illusion because the monsters in places like Evendim and Misty Mountains were way over my Woodworkers level and they did not have any kind of expanded aggro range at all, it was normal just like every place else.

They knew well and good when they lifted all those crafting gates and all this other stuff people were going to be making just crafting alts that they wouldn't level...so it is a little bit deceptive IMO.....and annoying because you spend RL money to buy stuff like the Crafting Guild continuation and now I am going to be stuck at never being able to use Supreme or Westfold pattern pieces to level that faster.

I have no issues at all buying the stuff from the AH, but guess what......sometimes like right now....it's completely empty.

I have no issues at all using the forum server trade section to make trades....but guess what....no on ever responds.

I would have no issues doing skirmishes and handing the stuff to my alt that way, but you can't because it binds to character.

I wouldn't have even had an issue just dropping the independent crafting thing but I already invested a ton of time in it and it worked just fine to this point. Sorry....it's a blatant lead on.

The crafting set up is broken anyways if they will limit it like this. So okay I drop the whole alt crafting thing and just play my one character....who is a jeweller/prospector/cook.......and this concept of the game is broken too...because I have one profession that becomes worthless.......as there is no way for me to get the stuff to even use cooking.

It's broken...the game is so much made to be largely solo-able......so why aren't crafting setup's sensible.....you know and Armourer would have Weapon smith instead of Tailor, a Historian would get Cooking instead of Weaponsmith, a Woodsman getting Tailor instead of Farming.

It's just silly, forcing people to have to associate with each other or level alts to have proper resources is poor development.

Honestly they should have just left the crafting gates in and the rest of the restrictions instead of misleading people.

Wow.. maybe MMOs are not the right kind of game for you.

Evendim and MM weren't high *enough* to trigger this.

The increased aggro (and longened induction times for gathering) are meant to stop gold farmers. Low level farmers gathering mats and not caring when they died. And it's worked. They can't gather high level mats anymore.

The problem isn't with Turbine, it's with your choice of vocation for your main character. Explorer is the perfect vocation for someone like you, because you can gather essentially every resource in the game. With the forestry you can get the wood and with the prospecting you can get the ore. Hides are simply from animal mobs and scholar mats you can get from undead mobs. A little research goes a long way in picking out vocations with the kind of restrictions you put on your play style. Good luck and happy adventures!

Originally Posted by Nakiami

Wow.. maybe MMOs are not the right kind of game for you.

Evendim and MM weren't high *enough* to trigger this.

The increased aggro (and longened induction times for gathering) are meant to stop gold farmers. Low level farmers gathering mats and not caring when they died. And it's worked. They can't gather high level mats anymore.

LOL...well I am an actual player not a gold farmer.

MMO's are not for me....why because I actually like stimulation?

I mean I have been down the path of making a bunch of alt's in the same game, I did it with DDO for like 4 years and I finally realized that you can only beat a dead horse so many time's and the novelty wears off.

I love when I only play one character. Everything in the game is basically always fresh......if I cap a toon...I will usually only stay with a game if the make more content or to help other people.

I realized a while ago that making alts and replaying the same game is just ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzz zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz..............

insanely brain cell killing due to no challenge.

My real issue here is not with the mechanics of the game and how this is working, it's that by removing all the crafting restrictions that they did they are leading people into believing they can go all the way with a non leveling alt and then abruptly halt their progress AFTER they have already invested a ton of time in it.

Honestly I think I am just gonna give up on the crafting thing period, because I am sure I will probably hit a bunch of other snags in the future that are hidden from me and it will just make me frustrated again.

I'll bet I probably won't even be able to keep using my alt farmer for my tinker's cooking supplies because I will have no way to get the Westfold farming recipes right?

So I will have only one crafter and it will only be 2/3 useful on top of it?

ok, so you say that everything that is in conflict with your way of playing this game is actually "broken".

Did you ever think that maybe it was intended that you need other players' products for some recipes or even one branch of your crafting skills ? Why do you think it was intended that low-level characters can actually gather wood or ore from regions which you would not normally do quests in ? To support playing alts for crafting ?

I would assume that crafting is meant to help your character with food, clothes, weapons, other nice things while you are roaming that region pursuing quests and such.

Well, you are obviously one mislead soul thinking that what you mention is all crab and "broken". Surely there are things to complain about crafting but this is about recipes or ingredients and such.

Originally Posted by Sibannac

The problem isn't with Turbine, it's with your choice of vocation for your main character. Explorer is the perfect vocation for someone like you, because you can gather essentially every resource in the game. With the forestry you can get the wood and with the prospecting you can get the ore. Hides are simply from animal mobs and scholar mats you can get from undead mobs. A little research goes a long way in picking out vocations with the kind of restrictions you put on your play style. Good luck and happy adventures!

What does his choice of vocation have to do with his problem? As an explorer, he'd have the exactly same problem he has now - that he's too low level to gather the mats he needs to advance. BTW, scholar mats drop from every humanoid, not only undead.

As Nakiami said, it's an anti-goldseller mechanic. OP, you either have to level your char or gather tons of your lower level mats, sell them at the AH and buy higher level wood for the money you earn.

Gather and sell the ores from the lower levels-- if you price them right you will make a fortune which should then make it possible for you to buy the higher level items. (for example not very long ago I sold a stack of 100 regular copper ore for over 2 gold, a stack of 100 rich iron ore went for 4 gold).

If you venture into an area 20+ levels over your own, you will dang near aggro mobs from other servers. It is intended this way and has been a highly effective deterrent to the gold-sellers that used to plague us waaaaay back when. As for the speed with which you harvest, that is a function of your tools, which, sadly, are level-gated. The lower level the tool, the slower you will harvest.

Originally Posted by Qhouri

What does his choice of vocation have to do with his problem? As an explorer, he'd have the exactly same problem he has now - that he's too low level to gather the mats he needs to advance. BTW, scholar mats drop from every humanoid, not only undead.

What does vocation have to do with it? Because he is only leveling up his main character and keeping the rest as low level crafting toons. At level 58 gathering resources from the lowest level areas in Dunland are within reach. From there its just mailing them to his alts. I know several other players that use this technique quite well. And BTW, yes i know scholar mats drop from every humanoid, but the odds of them dropping are a LOT higher from undead (ever been to the barrows??)

Originally Posted by Qhouri

What does his choice of vocation have to do with his problem? As an explorer, he'd have the exactly same problem he has now - that he's too low level to gather the mats he needs to advance. BTW, scholar mats drop from every humanoid, not only undead.

As Nakiami said, it's an anti-goldseller mechanic. OP, you either have to level your char or gather tons of your lower level mats, sell them at the AH and buy higher level wood for the money you earn.

First off I am a she not a he.....but anyways......I have no problem using the AH at all.....because I make plenty of gold on my LM to buy materials there...the problem is supply.

A lot of times it's simply just not there to buy.

I usually like to get all the raw materials I need for the whole week to do my Crafting Guild patterns so I don't have to worry about it for a few days.

Well I needed quite a bit of Mallorn and Ilex and ok...I will buy it from the AH...that's fine.....but there is none.

No, I am not saying that if it does not go along with my playstyle it's broken...but in this case IT IS broken.

People want to be able to solo, it's something Turbine has had to come to terms with finally, and putting one profession with each vocation that cannot get it's own resources is just kind of like a cruel developer joke.

What sense does it make...none. I can see the argument that it's so people will have to rely on others instead of just themselves but you know what.......trying to force that just makes things worse.

Honestly this is probably the only thing I have never liked about this game......that there is always one profession your incapable of supplying yourself resources for. I never would have even ventured into trying the crafting independence thing and would have been happy with my one character if for example my Tinker had something that made sense like Weaponsmith or Metalsmith instead of cooking.

It's almost like this system is a cancer.....break it off into enough stems and it just keeps spreading.

Oh well I guess I will just have to be content with having my one main and being two thirds of a crafter.......which just doesn't make sense to me that it's limited like that.

I don't even really care about being able to cover every crafting profession....what I do care about is that the one character I do play and level has one profession basically taken away from it from the start.

I honestly don't understand what your expectations are... to just make a lvl 6 toon and make a lovely walk down to isengrad so you can pick up mats?
crafting is meant to be restricted and it should progress alongside your toon (meaning that at a certain level, you will be able to gather mats and make things appropriate for that lvl)
and there is no 'deceptive buisness' here... I don't know how you got the idea that low lvl toons are, or should be able to gather high level materials.

frankly, you should reconsider what your are complaining about, because, if you were mislead or tricked, you did it to yourself...

You will run into a bigger problem than aggro range. Once you hit some zones the crafting will be gated by rep which can only be acquired by leveling to accept quests and do repeatables.

Personally, I miss the original design of the game. It was much more about relying on other players. They have eased up considerably to keep the game focus solo friendly.

To answer your OP, I believe all is working as intended and the goal is to either have you level up your other toons, or work out ways to acquire the mats from the store or from other players in the game. It settles into common RPG progression... you can't go gather lashes from the eye of Sauron without being strong enough to be able to make the journey. A level 6 scholar shouldn't (realistically) be able to brew potions that only a level 75 can drink. IMHO the limits are overly generous already.

I saw a level 1 chicken with like 72 morale at the gates of Orthanc.

Mob aggro shouldn't be that big of a deal.

I'm a crafter also, I have many high level toon due to crafting and it's fine...

I have leveled many of them to 75 just because I ended up enjoying the class diversity but they we're all already guilded with thier own craft (before making it to 40).

For some recipe you need rep, but you don't need that recipe to level up that crafting tier.

I have a cook (kindred with guild and mastered t7) and farmer t7 mastered also, he's lvl42 and for convinience (close to superior field and superior kitchen, close to campfire...) I tried to get to Galtrev. I made it there and funny thing, in the center (forge master) I do aggro mobs (boar, wolves, dunlending) it's WAI...

I went down to the field and I tried to make a field... it took a LONG time for plant it and then it expired before I was done harversting... I'm fine with that too (it's annoying but me being there is also wrong (even though I made it to galtrev unescorted))

So ya... Completed independent crafting requires leveling up to a certain point...

My Main is an explorer and funnels mats to all of my alts for crafting. Each of my low level alts are in a kindred with a guild and each has leveled to supreme crafter and has progressed into westfold using mats from AH or from Kin mates.

The only exception is my farmer/cook yeoman. He grew his own mats and progressed to westfold without ever leaving the shire.

I only have to level my main to avoid the aggro problem that the OP mentioned, everything else works pretty well.

Well, over all I have come to acceptance of this and do completely ditch the crafting independence thing.

No matter what anyone is gonna say, having vocations stuck with one profession that can't provide it's own resources is pretty manipulative.

It would be ok if there was decent supply on the AH at all times, which there isn't and/or if people were more willing to work trades on a regular basis...you know, I will give you my ancient iron ore for your mint leaves so I can make some food...but that doesn't work either because then you are confined by another persons limitations and how much they are willing to provide in the trade.

I'm sorry...vocations should be completely soloable as I mentioned before.......I think this is a huge flaw in the crafting system.....it's fine and good for people who wanna make 5-6 capped alts but it's a nightmare for people who only wanna play one character.

Sorry......that is broken.

Rearrange the vocations and give them two creation professions that go along with their harvesting profession.

Leaving one profession vulnerable so you are forced to have to get resources from another player or alt is broken unless you are an alto-holic.

Honestly my main concern with my tinker is how much of a roadblock I am gonna hit when I wanna start making Westfold food.....I mean is my level 22 farmer who is up to Westfold BTW even going to be able to get the recipes needed...if not this is what I mean....it makes one of my professions totally crippled....which makes no sense at all.

I can accept crafting being limited and having to earn while character leveling...what I can't accept is having a profession that I can't provide my own resources for.

Way back crafting was level gated by having to complete crafting quests to advance to higher crafting tiers. The componants for said quests were located in zones that were level appropriate to the crafting tier they applied to. Now whilst I don't agree that lowbie crafters have free reign to the highest level crafting I DO take the point the OP is making about people being lulled into a false sense of security. The crafting quest requirements between tiers were lifted and I think it left many people with the impression that creating lowbies for the purposes of crafting was the direction the game was headed.

I'm naturally a cautious character and I saw the writing on the wall when Forochel and the rep gated recipes were released. Consequently all my alts were levelled originally for the purposes of crafting but then because I enjoyed playing all the classes. The removal of the crafting quests between tiers occured after the release of Forochel but me being cynical I wasn't convinced and continued to level my crafters.

How glad I am that I followed my instincts and now with every new zone, level cap ugrade and crafting tier levelling my alts isn't too bad because I've done it gradually.

I will say this about alts, levelling has never been so easy, quick and rep never so easy to obtain. If you are levelling an alt just for crafting you do not need to get all the uber gear just do the most straightforward landscape quests and pick up rep items along the way. My guess is that the OP could level an alt or alts by a very different route to her main and by using a different class it would provide quite a different experience. Even a lot of the "old" quests have changed and new quest hubs added to the lower areas.

Ok, I just did some searching on the wiki and it looks like only two recipes for farmers are hard to get rep recipes that I won't even need for making Westfold Food.


I went back and looked at the Vocations setups......came to this conclusion for other people who are only into playing one character and not really wanting to level a bunch of alts.....

Armourer=Metalsmith/Prospector/Tailor......good choice because you can simply make a character with the forestry profession to make your leathers....no risk really.

Armsman=Weaponsmith/Prospector/Woodworker......bad choice......any self reliance would depend on LEVELING another character to come up with the treated wood for the woodworking to be of any use....that or you would need a reliable person to supply it to you or be at the whim of the AH.

Explorer=Forester/Prospector/Tailor.......this one is not bad as you can make an alt with weaponsmith, metalsmith, or jeweler and supply their ore without having to level that character.

Historian=Farmer/Weaponsmith/Scholar.........unless you're willing to level an alt with prospecting the Weaponsmith will mean you will have to buy from the AH (good luck with that)....or have a dependable person to supply you ore. Honestly this is probably the worst vocation if you want to get something out of all three professions and only have to level on character. Farmer is ok because you can make a cook and wouldn't have to level it really.

Tinker=Jeweler/Prospetor/Cook......this is what I have.....and have come to accept that it's pretty nice really......you can make a non leveling farmer to get you all the way through Westfold food as far as I can tell and use all the non jeweling ore to suppply a metalsmith for tools and a weaponsmith for weapons.

Woodsman=Woodworker/Forester/Farmer......this is the crafting alt I am giving up on. There is no way I can supply logs to this character self sufficiently without having to level it. I can still use it to make my Tailors leathers tho. For a person who had this vocation on their main and only it would be a good choice as you could make a decent buck selling leathers and make a non leveling cook to make use of your farming profession.

Yeoman=Farmer/Cook/Tailor...this is a good one as you again can make a non-leveling forester to make your leathers.


So that's what I am getting out of it.

Did I make a mountain out of a mole-hill...yes I admit...I seem to be rather good at that unfortunately...really it seems the only thing I am going to have to give up out of my crafting independence scheme is woodworking and it's not really that huge of a deal at all.

If I am way off on my crafting vocation assessment as in relation to someone only wanting to level one character and not have to level alts... please chime in...I do not like spreading false info.

Originally Posted by Catburg

Way back crafting was level gated by having to complete crafting quests to advance to higher crafting tiers. The componants for said quests were located in zones that were level appropriate to the crafting tier they applied to. Now whilst I don't agree that lowbie crafters have free reign to the highest level crafting I DO take the point the OP is making about people being lulled into a false sense of security. The crafting quest requirements between tiers were lifted and I think it left many people with the impression that creating lowbies for the purposes of crafting was the direction the game was headed.

I'm naturally a cautious character and I saw the writing on the wall when Forochel and the rep gated recipes were released. Consequently all my alts were levelled originally for the purposes of crafting but then because I enjoyed playing all the classes. The removal of the crafting quests between tiers occured after the release of Forochel but me being cynical I wasn't convinced and continued to level my crafters.

How glad I am that I followed my instincts and now with every new zone, level cap ugrade and crafting tier levelling my alts isn't too bad because I've done it gradually.

I will say this about alts, levelling has never been so easy, quick and rep never so easy to obtain. If you are levelling an alt just for crafting you do not need to get all the uber gear just do the most straightforward landscape quests and pick up rep items along the way. My guess is that the OP could level an alt or alts by a very different route to her main and by using a different class it would provide quite a different experience. Even a lot of the "old" quests have changed and new quest hubs added to the lower areas.

I have absolutely no interest at all in leveling alts...I freed myself from that a long time again and am very happy I did. Honestly I am pretty content with what my one character has and is capable of...the thing that annoys me greatly is invested a very large amount of time in leveling that woodworkers crafting tiers and I feel like that was all nothing but a complete waste. The only small consolation I can perceive as that all that wood I treated helped me level my forestry tier which I can still use to supply my tailor.

That and it was a complete shock that I was running around in MM and Evendim just fine on my level 24 forester collecting wood and then the shock of what Eregion was like......I knew at that point the woodworking thing was finished. I never had those aggro problems against the purples in MM and Evendim at all, but I guess I passed the point of normal aggro when I ventured to Evendim......plus I can't use the milestones there anyways.

It would just be a waste of time at this point to continue with that venture and I already wasted enough of it on that.

Originally Posted by vVAnjilaVv

If I am way off on my crafting vocation assessment as in relation to someone only wanting to level one character and not have to level alts... please chime in...I do not like spreading false info.

If someone only wants to level one character and make a bunch of crafting alts best vocation would be explorer. You'll get ore, wood, hides and scholar items just from leveling and questing with that character. 1st non leveled alt: Jeweler for food and jewelry. 2nd non leveled alt: Historian for farming mats, consumables. All those things sell well on the AH. Armour and weapon professions are only worth it if you're kitting up alts while leveling, imo...and you can find crafters/kinnies who can make armour for you.

I am curious, why would you need a woodworker anyway if you're only going to level the LM? You get access to 3rd age LIs at L45. The LIs drop like candy and can be bartered/bought for most levels anyway. If you don't raid, that's all you'll likely need for your LM. Woodworkers can craft 2nd Age staves, but that seems like a lot of work to me just to skill up a profession for something that's only going to be made once in a while. I only leveled woodworker to make agi relics for my burg and off hand weapons/instruments for my other alts, and it's still kinda ..meh to me.

Wanting crafting indepenence I can understand, it's pretty much like treating each crafting alt as a "tool" rather than a character, each alt is almost an extension of your main character by virtue of the fact it is a piece of equipment. Much like other pieces of equipment you have it at it's best when you upgrade (or level in this case) it. For example a level 50 guard would have a much harder time if they ran around with a level 25 shield.

In my opinion it saves time in the long run, particularly with resource gatherers, if you invest a little time in levelling. It goes without saying that node collection is a breeze if you're running around in a grey mob area. In the longer term you'll save more time just being able to run freely from node to node (and having higher level faster node gathering tools) than having to stop and fight, turn and run, or take long diversions to avoid trouble. It's still possible to continue mat gathering whilst in the process of doing lanscape quests. Presumably in terms of gathering mats one wants to spend as little time as possible doing it?

This post isn't about the rights and wrongs of WHETHER people SHOULD level their alts or not it's based on my personal experience of having levelled crafting/resource gathering alts and total time spent and saved.

I hope you don't give up on crafting. It is possible to do without using the AH at all - this is what I do.

My Hunter, whose vocation is explorer, gathers all my mats except food. She has a run buff for running from node to node (wood or ore), and can track any type of mob (hides, scholar mats).

I have low level alts responsible for farming, cooking, weaponsmithing, armoursmithing, woodworking, tinkering, and scholar-ing. (schooling?) When possible, they advance in their respective crafting guilds to get good recipes. I don't bother much with rep-gated recipes, except on my hunter (who is also a tailor). All of these alts get their mats from the hunter via shared storage.

I understand the sentiment of not wanting to level up many alts. Its time consuming and takes away the time you spend with your main. But, as others have said, you are probably not going to get away with out leveling at least one.

to be honest with ya, by the time this thread has gone on you could easily level up you're char, It doesnt take any time at all and crafting is a benefit along the way, I once met a lvl 15 Westfold Weaponsmith, how does that work out?
anyways, you shouldnt call the system broken, just level up, it aint that hard, its rather easy and quick.
Im quite certain that all the time you've spent avoiding these mobs was all the time you needed to get lvl 45-50ish

The only thing needed to make an effective stable of alt crafters work is that your main is an Explorer. As Wood is rather easy to get a hold of (at least in my experience), I'd suggest you swap your main to Explorer and make an Alt Woodsman. As long as it's on the same account, your Woodworkers Guild Access purchase will still work, as it's account wide. You'll also keep your Forrester progression, as it's shared between the vocations.

Having one main and the rest low level crafters is completely doable. No, you won't be able to gather everything yourself. But being on the server you're on, mats shouldn't be hard to get. I know, you said the AH is often empty and no one responds on the trade forums. Try GLFF. Try your kin. The Trade channel in Galtrev is also still helpful. You need to network. Don't try making trades, make purchases. Your lower level crafters can gather low level mats, so if funds are an issue, sell those. I'm always amazed that the T1 and T2 stuff tends to go for as much or more than the T7 stuff.

My main is WW, WS and Prospector. Until recently, I didn't have alts high enough to harvest T6 and T7 for anything but ore. I STILL don't have a forester to harvest even T3. But yet, all my crafts are maxed and I do well providing for myself, my kin, and the AH. Your farmer can plant anything. Matter of fact, since I sell so much food, I created a F2P account and have a level 13 farmer making Westfold items while my cook is busy in the kitchen. So as long as you can gather ore, you're all set. Hides and scholar mats will come as drops, and wood you can get through any of the above options.


When they removed crafting quests, they DID make it easier for low level crafting. To be completely honest, you can craft most things with low level toons. You do have to have rep for some things, but that's to be expected. And none of those are completely needed. Better than the non-rep, but not needed.

When crafting was gated by the crafting quest For some of my I did hire a player to help me get the quest done. Things are obviously much easier now as all you need to do is run to whatever location the guild happens to be in. Although at lvl8 or so the run to rivendell can be tricky in the final stage with the stealthed cats. Rep is such now that a guilded scholar can visit once and buy the recipes for tokens then make use of the mathomhouse in the shire and head back to rivendell for the specific recipes they need as and when required, lvl 15 master westfold scholar and fully guilded on that one. In fact the only one I'm missing is a weapon smith and they're being worked on as and when I can be bothered riding about gathering the khazad ores.

My view on the main plus crafting alts is that the main should be the focus for levelling and the main supplier of materials or cash for the other professions. It will be slow if you launch into it early but if the alt is a tailor or forester the as the main quests you should have a steady enough supply of hides to craft your way up and there's always the option to sell unused extras.

No reason not to hit the higher zones but you have to accept that death might be an option, from memory my best time in enedwaith on a lvl28 miner was about 2 hours before I died and had to retreat away. Have to say it's a lot of fun gathering mats in a very hostile environment not knowing for sure if you'll have to make a run for it or even see what killed you.

Originally Posted by vVAnjilaVv

No matter what anyone is gonna say, having vocations stuck with one profession that can't provide it's own resources is pretty manipulative.

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I'm sorry...vocations should be completely soloable as I mentioned before.......I think this is a huge flaw in the crafting system.....it's fine and good for people who wanna make 5-6 capped alts but it's a nightmare for people who only wanna play one character.

Sorry......that is broken.

Rearrange the vocations and give them two creation professions that go along with their harvesting profession.

Leaving one profession vulnerable so you are forced to have to get resources from another player or alt is broken unless you are an alto-holic.

Honestly my main concern with my tinker is how much of a roadblock I am gonna hit when I wanna start making Westfold food.....I mean is my level 22 farmer who is up to Westfold BTW even going to be able to get the recipes needed...if not this is what I mean....it makes one of my professions totally crippled....which makes no sense at all.

I can accept crafting being limited and having to earn while character leveling...what I can't accept is having a profession that I can't provide my own resources for.

Drama Queen nonsense.

Turbine could just as easily only given each profession 2 crafts. Instead, each profession got a 3rd craft that required the player to deal with other aspects of the game like trading, cooperation, Auction House, friends (god forbid) and alts.

If you don't want contact with anyone else in Middle Earth, you can still complete at least 2/3 of your crafting.

Just because you thought that when the crafting *quests* were removed that you'd be able to roam all lands free of danger on your low level characters doesn't mean that Turbine was misleading. It's just not what you guessed it would be.

Originally Posted by vVAnjilaVv

Well, over all I have come to acceptance of this and do completely ditch the crafting independence thing.

No matter what anyone is gonna say, having vocations stuck with one profession that can't provide it's own resources is pretty manipulative.

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I'm sorry...vocations should be completely soloable as I mentioned before.......I think this is a huge flaw in the crafting system.....it's fine and good for people who wanna make 5-6 capped alts but it's a nightmare for people who only wanna play one character.

Sorry......that is broken.

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I can accept crafting being limited and having to earn while character leveling...what I can't accept is having a profession that I can't provide my own resources for.

I can sympathize with the frustration because I've been there, done that with a scholar who was frustrated as can be about access to scholar mats in areas over his level.

I can't say that any of this is broken.

I don't know where the feeling that choosing a vocation or avocation should guarantee the ability to gather and craft cradle to grave on a recipe comes from. If anything, I think that being given at least one gatherer vocation that supports one of your manufacturing vocations is a pretty nice gift.

My thinking is that this particular aspect of LOTRO game design is very, very real world. In the real world, I'm a technical writer but I couldn't make paper, manufacture pens or print a book to save my life. In my private life, I like to sew but there's no way under the sun that I can go out and grow a field of cotton, dye it, and turn it into cloth. Let's not even consider the notion that I might build a computer after I gather a few chunks of ore from mines around the world, visit my neighborhood one-stop crafting hall and walk out with a computer to play this game unless we want a real belly laugh.

So, I don't think the game's broken as much as this part of the game is a little bit closer to the real world than most games are.

So, Original Poster, I'm still sorry you are feeling pain with the game but I don't think that anyone's doing it as a planned insult to you or any attempt to manipulate you.

You say that the system is broken because there's no mats on the AH... that's actually a consequence of the law of supply and demand. Either the demand is very low, so no one posts any mats, or the demand is actually very high and the mats are gone before you know it. You could make an offer in a global chat to 'hire' someone to gather some mats for you, even though this should probably cost you a lot more than just buying them. Make your offer high enough and you'll probably find some people willing to do this.

This is why your main and first 75 should be an explorer. Let him gather wood and ore and crit items for all your crafters. Next would be a historian, imo, and all your resource problems are solved.

Originally Posted by Alrandor

You say that the system is broken because there's no mats on the AH... that's actually a consequence of the law of supply and demand. Either the demand is very low, so no one posts any mats, or the demand is actually very high and the mats are gone before you know it.

Most of the people I know simply vend the mats. Everyone is still mining the ore because of the Sigils, but no one needs it and there are so many nodes the ore just piles up to epic proportions. A trip to the AH will quickly show that after posting and selling fees, its quicker and cheaper (or at least the same price) to vend them. Wood is in a similar state. While scholar mats aren't as bountiful in node form... every two legged humanoid seems to have a current subscription to Scholar's Monthly and its incredibly easy for ANY person to collect hundreds of scholar mats just from questing. So, I agree with you.... Supply and demand is working. Turbine said they were going to increase nodes and that they did. People are no longer competing for nodes... well some still are, but they are a special kind of person

You should be able to buy 100 of any base tier 7 mat for 200 - 400 silver. The other tiers will vary based on several factors, but I'm leveling a toon right now, and its never been easier for him to max out all his vocations on the way up. In fact, out of pure laziness, I've utilized the AH for mats my alts had. The price made it not worth me switching. This includes several tiers along the way.

1. It is not broken for low level characters to have difficulty harvesting high level materials. It's how these games are meant to be, and every MMO I've ever played has been the same. If you were under the impression that by opening the gates, Turbine was telling everyone, "there's no challenge at all now for your level 20 toon to go to Dunland hand harvest in a level 70 area!" then you simply tricked yourself. That was not the message everyone else got.

2. You made the wrong choice for your main crafting occupation if you never intend to level up any other alts. You should have chosen an explorer so you can funnel resources to your other alts. As to the farmer, I have a level 8 Westfold farmer who can produce everything I need for my level 75 cook. The farmer has never left the Shire.

3. You say the AH never has what you're looking for to buy. Well then, looks like you're going to have to get out of your little box and try something else. That's how the market works.

4. I took a level 9 hobbit to Galtrev, if you are willing to work at it, you can harvest resources in Dunland. It just takes longer because the game is supposed to be a challenge!

5. What exactly is it you expect from turbine if not to make it very difficult for low levels to survive in high level areas? Were you expecting it to never become difficult?

Originally Posted by hucklebarry

You should be able to buy 100 of any base tier 7 mat for 200 - 400 silver. The other tiers will vary based on several factors, but I'm leveling a toon right now, and its never been easier for him to max out all his vocations on the way up. In fact, out of pure laziness, I've utilized the AH for mats my alts had. The price made it not worth me switching. This includes several tiers along the way.

1. That pricing depends a lot on server. On one server I play on, that number is accurate. On another server I play on, that number is closer to 1g per 100.
2. The only exception to this I would say is Tier 5, Master tier. People always seem to not bother posting the mats for this tier for some reason... I think people do not quest so much in the areas where these mats are anymore, instead skipping straight to Moria and it's Khazad Goodies.

Originally Posted by Morvelaira

2. The only exception to this I would say is Tier 5, Master tier. People always seem to not bother posting the mats for this tier for some reason... I think people do not quest so much in the areas where these mats are anymore, instead skipping straight to Moria and it's Khazad Goodies.

Some time back Turbine "nuked" the best T5 mining area: The western Misty Mountains.

T7 hides may develop a similar problem since it used to be possible to farm large quantities of them from the Druggavar in the goat herd a t night. Only three spawn points, but a prodigious spawn rate. Those have now be lowered in level with the level adjust change to Enedwaith and they no longer drop T7 hides.

--W. H. Heydt

Old Used Programmer

I'm starting to hate the word "Playstyle"